Hey guys! Quick question, how many of you are running Ghirapur as a win condition? I have been playing it as a one of in the mainboard for a few months now and I have to say that it is consistently underperforming for me.. I mean there have been several matches where things worked out and it was quicker to kill them with that then by mill, but I don't like that it can't be tutored for and that in your opening hand it is almost a dead card..
I also don't know what would be a considerable replacement.. I was thinking of just adding a third collective company in it's place since it has so much utility in it's modes and it's discard outlet to get Ensnaring Bridge to 0. Ultimately, what I'm asking is: Is everyone here going entirely mill or how do you like to win with the deck? Is Pyrite Spellbomb still a thing? lol
maybe try moving grid to the sideboard? I usually win G1 with mill or concession. I bring grid in for any match that has hierarch, signal pest, stony silence, or kataki. I also consider bringing it in when theres less than ~12 minutes to finish a match and i dont think the opponent will concede to the lock.
Have any of you thought about giving lantern a real transformational sideboard? Like maybe Devoted druid, vizier of remedies and walking ballista? Seems like it'd be pretty good against our bad matchups when they take out removal; just sideboard out discard or surgicals maybe. Also probably would be better in the bauble version.
yes, and decided that this deck doesn't lend itself well to transformational sideboards. With ancient stirrings, baubles, and scrying yourself with mill rocks, it makes more sense to me to play a couple haymakers that you can dig to instead of polluting your deck with more individually weak/non-synergetic cards.
On Blind milling your opponent: Without any pressure on your life total I think you mill the opponent and don't mill yourself. Milling them gives you information so you can figure out what you really need. You can also fire off a surgical on anything you mill from them so you can peek at their hand and library for more information.
On Blind milling yourself: Basically the only card you absolutely don't want to draw is another copy of surgical extraction, so you have enough live draws in this situation that i don't think blind milling yourself is all that necessary. However, once your life total is under pressure, desperation blind milling becomes an option.
Does anyone have any tips on how they evaluate a keepable hand if a leyline is in it? I've been keeping medium/risky (land light) hands and getting punished for it.
From the infraction procedure:
" Players are expected to remember their own triggered abilities;
intentionally ignoring one may be Unsporting Conduct — Cheating (unless the ability would
have no impact on the game as described above). Even if an opponent is involved in the
announcement or resolution of the ability, the controller is still responsible for ensuring the
opponents make the appropriate choices and take the appropriate actions. Opponents are not
required to point out triggered abilities that they do not control, though they may do so if they wish."
tl:dr
If opponent forgets to trigger chalice on their own spells, its cheating.
If opponent forgets to trigger chalice on your spells, they've missed the trigger and you resolve your spells and it's totally legal.
The whole point of a win condition is that it speeds up your win, meaning you no longer have to mill out your opponent; you can just control their draws. The less draws you have to control, the better. Digging yourself into eleven mana sources to loop Brutality is not going to help you win faster, much like pinging for one each turn with six mana sources won't speed up the game either. Also, what happens when you side out Brutality? I commonly do that in controlling matchups with few creatures, and siding this out would remove any form of inevitability i have against them.
I get that. Agreed that its faster, better against walkers, and easier to demonstrate. I even run one myself. My point was that there is an intrinsic demonstrable loop already build into thnkr's list which the OP was considering building.
Hey everybody, I've been a long time lurker of the primer, and have been playing lantern competitively for about 6 months. I greatly appreciate all the work everybody here has done for the deck; I've also recently gotten into @crexalbo and @thnkr's youtube channels (go and subscribe to them if you haven't already).
My biggest dilemma at the moment is deciding on whether or not to include a wincon in my deck. When playing online they don't seem as important, as there is no round timer, but in paper they feel necessary for not going to turns too much (as @crexalbo emphasized in his well-written tourney report).
And if I do decide to install a wincon in my deck, what should it be? Right now it seems that the 2 best-scoring efficient wincons are Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and Pyrite Spellbomb. They both seem fine, but in this meta of BG Lantern, is the spellbomb the move?
Also, I'm still on the BUG list, and am leaning toward building into a list similar to @thnkr's.
Thnks
Assuming that you already have the lantern lock, if you are playing collective brutality, you pretty much have a wincon once you get to sufficient mana, academy ruins, and a Codex shredder. You can drain once a turn for 11 mana, once every other turn for 6 (5 mana to regrow Collective Brutality on one turn, 6 mana to activate academy ruins, cast Collective Brutality and replay the Codex shredder on the next turn).
On the Sam Black SCG article, heres the tl:dr ->
He dropped discard for card draw in Thoughtcast and Reverse Engineer. He also mentioned tron being poorly positioned because decks like Ad Naus and Affinity will most likely be picking up steam, which bodes well for lantern.
I just joined this website, so as my first order of business, I would like to thank you for sharing your extensive experience with Momir Vig. Your detailed description of many of your card choices is unparalleled and much appreciated, and has helped me sculpt my own Momir Vig build.
I chose to go with a build that runs all permanents except for primal surge, mostly because force of will and mana drain come with a pretty steep price tag, and against heavy control, I found myself wishing my counter spells were something else (sounds weird I'm sure). With a depleted counterspell suite, I felt like trying something a little bit different. Perhaps playing against Azami has left a sour taste in my mouth, but my observation was that there were situations in which I wished I had a faster way to win against control. It is very rare to find control players tapped out, and I really wanted a way to punish them for overextending. I ended up embracing a bit of an elf-ball but still tool box strategy, added Craterhoof Behemoth, and avoided creatures with defender with the exception of Wall of Blossoms and Drift of Phantasms. Besides this, I added Laboratory maniac. It is as awesome as it is amusing. Not only does Primal Surge basically win the game on the spot, but Laboratory Maniac also conveniently slides in under Aluren after drawing your library a la cloudstone curio draw bounce engine. It also serves as a hilarious parry to search for after becoming the target of an arbitrarily large stroke of genius or its kin. All of that being said, this decision was certainly a meta/budget consideration. Just thought I'd post the experience.
So much love for Vig here <3
Again, thank you so much for your breakdown. It was a stellar read
maybe try moving grid to the sideboard? I usually win G1 with mill or concession. I bring grid in for any match that has hierarch, signal pest, stony silence, or kataki. I also consider bringing it in when theres less than ~12 minutes to finish a match and i dont think the opponent will concede to the lock.
On Blind milling yourself: Basically the only card you absolutely don't want to draw is another copy of surgical extraction, so you have enough live draws in this situation that i don't think blind milling yourself is all that necessary. However, once your life total is under pressure, desperation blind milling becomes an option.
From the infraction procedure:
" Players are expected to remember their own triggered abilities;
intentionally ignoring one may be Unsporting Conduct — Cheating (unless the ability would
have no impact on the game as described above). Even if an opponent is involved in the
announcement or resolution of the ability, the controller is still responsible for ensuring the
opponents make the appropriate choices and take the appropriate actions. Opponents are not
required to point out triggered abilities that they do not control, though they may do so if they wish."
tl:dr
If opponent forgets to trigger chalice on their own spells, its cheating.
If opponent forgets to trigger chalice on your spells, they've missed the trigger and you resolve your spells and it's totally legal.
I get that. Agreed that its faster, better against walkers, and easier to demonstrate. I even run one myself. My point was that there is an intrinsic demonstrable loop already build into thnkr's list which the OP was considering building.
Assuming that you already have the lantern lock, if you are playing collective brutality, you pretty much have a wincon once you get to sufficient mana, academy ruins, and a Codex shredder. You can drain once a turn for 11 mana, once every other turn for 6 (5 mana to regrow Collective Brutality on one turn, 6 mana to activate academy ruins, cast Collective Brutality and replay the Codex shredder on the next turn).
He dropped discard for card draw in Thoughtcast and Reverse Engineer. He also mentioned tron being poorly positioned because decks like Ad Naus and Affinity will most likely be picking up steam, which bodes well for lantern.
Ancient Tomb
Berserk
Flusterstorm
Jace, the mind sculptor
Hymn to Tourach
No Reprint
Entreat the angels
Dark Ritual
Snapcaster Mage
Stifle
Exploration
I chose to go with a build that runs all permanents except for primal surge, mostly because force of will and mana drain come with a pretty steep price tag, and against heavy control, I found myself wishing my counter spells were something else (sounds weird I'm sure). With a depleted counterspell suite, I felt like trying something a little bit different. Perhaps playing against Azami has left a sour taste in my mouth, but my observation was that there were situations in which I wished I had a faster way to win against control. It is very rare to find control players tapped out, and I really wanted a way to punish them for overextending. I ended up embracing a bit of an elf-ball but still tool box strategy, added Craterhoof Behemoth, and avoided creatures with defender with the exception of Wall of Blossoms and Drift of Phantasms. Besides this, I added Laboratory maniac. It is as awesome as it is amusing. Not only does Primal Surge basically win the game on the spot, but Laboratory Maniac also conveniently slides in under Aluren after drawing your library a la cloudstone curio draw bounce engine. It also serves as a hilarious parry to search for after becoming the target of an arbitrarily large stroke of genius or its kin. All of that being said, this decision was certainly a meta/budget consideration. Just thought I'd post the experience.
So much love for Vig here <3
Again, thank you so much for your breakdown. It was a stellar read