Temptation is cool, but is the color change necessary?
Necessary?
Well, the flavor is being tempted to switch sides to an enemy color. I tried to keep temptation as an ability that changed color while gaving the creature an ability it already shared, preferably a tertiary one where it made sense. First Strike is obviously not a good example of that here, but Intimidate is. Also, there are several cards that do care about color, in this set and the second set of the block, so it adds an interesting element while marking the change with a counter.
12 - this is almost cantripping necrobite and is very easy source of both card advantage and board position, hence it shouldn't be at common.
13 - I like how this interacts with other cards you have shown so far (it might almost be a little bit too strong with manipulate, being a repeatable source of -1/-1 counters at common...which is something I wouldn't expect to say about a card like this).
14 - this is really good card. Really really good card.
15 - Is completely shattering the color pie something you look to do in your set? This would be insanely powerful even in blue, let alone in black.
16 - Is there any precedent for wide pump effects in black?
12 - Yeah, it's pushed. It certainly a redflag. May be better off bumped up a rairty a tweaked.
13 - Exactly haha. Maybe make it cost 2?
15 - Shattering? No. I thought for some reason Black had more "pay life for a counter" effects through history, but seeing as the only one from the past 10 years was in Planar Chaos...yeah. A bit much. If I made a current counter cost (3CC) might it be justifiable? Counters are something that are hated and villianous, and I do see black bartering life for one in this set, but maybe not at common...
16 - Not since Kamigawa. So this may be a bit much, particularly as an instant.
10 - This set is rampant with removal in black and red and I want to make sure white has a couple commons that are resilient to that. That's not to say there isn't a better way of going about it though.
Doesn't 6 already do that? I think and interesting death trigger or a kind of recursion (Persist) is an interesting way to discourage removal. And is 2/1 really a good foil to removal?
Perhaps not, but I wanted some balancing factor for a 2 CC creature that could be aggressive and somewhat resilient to the -1/-1 counters floating around in the set.
Pain FirstBR
Instant (C)
Choose one —
• Creatures you control gain first strike until end of turn.
• Creatures you control gain wither until end of turn.
Entwine 1 (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)
Like the white commons in my other thread, the commons here are stripped down to just design elements.
For more information on my current set project, Serenta, click here.
1 - 1B
Creature - (C)
Defender
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
1/3
2 - 1B
Creature - (C)
Sacrifice ~: Exile target card from a graveyard.
1/3
3 - 3B
Creature - (C) B, T: Another target creature gains intimidate until end of turn.
2/3
4 - 2BB
Creature - Zombie (C)
When ~ dies, each player loses 3 life.
3/2
5 - B
Creature - Insect Horror (C)
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
When ~ dies, put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
1/1
6 - 4BB
Creature - (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a -1/-1 counter on target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.
4/5
7 - 1BB
Creature - (C)
Deathtouch
1/3
8 - 3BB
Creature - (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
3/4
9 - 2BB
Creature - (C)
2/5
10 - 2B
Creature - (C) Morbid — ~ enters the battlefield with two -1/-1 counters on it unless a creature died this turn.
4/4
11 - 4B
Creature - Horror
Intimidate
4/3
Child of Night (reprint) - 1B
Creature - Vampire (C)
Lifelink
2/1
12 - 2B
Instant (C)
Regenerate target creature. It gains wither until end of turn.
Draw a card.
13 - B
Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant Creature
When enchanted creature attacks or blocks, put a -1/-1 counter on it.
14 - 1BB
Sorcery (C)
You draw 2 cards and you lose 2 life. Morbid — Instead you draw 3 cards and lose 3 life if a creature died this turn.
15 - BB
Instant (C)
As an additional cost to cast ~, pay 3 life.
Counter target spell
16 - 4B
Instant (C)
Creatures you control get +2/+1 and gain wither until end of turn.
17 - B
Sorcery (C)
Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature. Morbid — Put 3 -1/-1 counters on that creature instead if a creature died this turn.
Keeper of Alacrity4UU
Creature - Sphinx (R)
Temptation (You may have this enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Flying
As long as Keeper of Alacrity has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has “You may cast nonland, noncreature cards as though they had flash. They can’t be countered.”
5/6
Sphinxes are often guardians of great magical secrets and power. However, even the most stalwart can be driven to temptations, leaving their hidden knowledge free for the taking.
How do you even work without any flavor at all? I usually imagine something specific when I'm making a card so I can give the cards at least a placeholder name (like the "Count Dracula" for Olivia Voldaren). I'm actually genuinely curious how other people work, this is not a criticism (although it would be easier to discuss the cards if they had names).
1 - <3
4 - Is there any specific reason for the ability? Would the card be any different if it was a vanilla creature (with the bonus baked in)? Does this ability introduce anything interesting, except meaningless trigger and 1 less damage to players?
10 - I hate color hosers at common. This may lead to some really unfun gameplay.
15 - Creative limited-centric removal, me likes. I would maybe even experiment with making the life gained a multiple of the number of counters to make the lifegain a bit more enticing.
16 - Perhaps make it an instant, to make it marginally more playable and interesting? I like what they did with Feed the Clan - make the lifegain really substantial and make it an instant, so it has some merit (to the point of making it to some sideboards in delver-land modern).
I also like the temptation creatures.
Serenta is a bottom up designed set, so I tend to churn out a number on cards based on the mechanics I have and what abilities would be relevant to interact with them. Some of these commons did have flavor that I stripped from them in order to post them here equally with the other commons I had none for. A lot of the times they have more direct inspirations, but I tend to be more concerned about the mechanics first. Flavor is so much easier to change.
4 - I was trying to avoid another 5 CC white 3/5 vanilla and this is what I slotted in. It is perhaps the weakest design of the lot, and I'm not a fan, but I really try to avoid straight vanillas that aren't at least somewhat distinctive stat wise.
10 - This set is rampant with removal in black and red and I want to make sure white has a couple commons that are resilient to that. That's not to say there isn't a better way of going about it though.
15 - Can do.
16 - Both of you agree on that, so I think I'll make it an instant and the morbid life gain 8.
I was curious about that too. Does a creature with lifelink count as healing a player? Or does it need to be more instantaneous? (As in, is my current entry valid?)
Thanks for the clarification. "Anything" that gains life would include a creature with lifelink by my definition, so I should be good to go. If that's a mistake, please correct me.
For my set Serenta, I have 18 commons for each color. Here are the drafts, ignoring subtypes and flavor for the most part. Some of them feel like filler until better ideas appear. Maybe more subthemes or clever ways to interact with the sets mechanics that will crop up during playtesting or what others may spot.
Keep in mind the sets design goal about malice filled magic, where you are somewhat villainous (though white less so on its surface) and the sets mechanics, which include Wither in other colors.
1 - W
Creature - Human Soldier (C) Morbid — ~ enters the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it unless a creature died this turn.
2/2
2 - 1WW
Creature - (C)
Flying
When ~ attacks, another target creature you control gains flying until end of turn.
2/2
3 - WW
Creature - (C)
Vigilance
2/2
4 - 3WW
Creature - (C)
When ~ blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
3/4
5 - 3W
Creature - (C)
Flying, first strike
2/3
6 - 2W
Creature - (C)
When ~ dies, put two 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield.
1/2
7 - 1W
Creature - (C)
Temptation (You may have ~ enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
As long as ~ has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s black and has intimidate.
2/2
8 - 2W
Creature - (C)
Whenever ~ is dealt damage, you gain 1 life.
2/3
9 - W
Creature - (C)
Sacrifice ~: Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn.
1/1
10 - 1W
Creature - (C)
Protection from black
2/1
11 - 3W
Creature - (C)
Temptation (You may have ~ enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
As long as ~ has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has first strike.
4/2
12 - 4W
Creature - (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, return target enchantment card from your graveyard to your hand.
3/3
13 - 4W
Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+4 and can block an additional creature.
14 - 1W
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
Draw a card.
15 - 4W
Sorcery (C)
Exile target creature. You gain life equal to the number of counters on it.
16 - 1W
Sorcery (C)
You gain 4 life. Morbid - You gain 7 life instead if a creature died this turn.
17 - W
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block unless it's controller taps another untapped creature he or she controls.
Safe Passage (reprint) 2W
Instant
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and creatures you control this turn.
Torturous Demise2BB
Sorcery (R)
Destroy target creature. It's controller reveals his or hand. That player discards all cards with a converted mana cost less than the creature's that was destroyed this way. Best to flee such an end then to accept it.
Enlightning3UR
Sorcery (U)
Enlightning deals 3 damage to target player. You draw 2 cards. Sometimes my brain needs a jolt, but I learn just as much jolting theirs.
Flare Javelin(2/R)(2/R)
Sorcery (U)
Flare Javelin deals 4 damage to target player. Everyone knew how deadly accurate the javelin thrower was when their leader fell dead.
First Rite5RR
Sorcery (M)
If target player has exactly 20 life, First Rite deals 20 damage to that player. The young walker had thought himself clever to complete the trial unscathed. Such insult ensured a vengeance he would not endure.
So taking an overall look here wanted to share some thoughts.
Norse mythology is a cool flavor to focus on, but your design goal isn’t really a design goal. A design goal should be defining what kind of experience and gameplay you intend to create in your set. Right now, it just states the sets flavor and mechanical themes. Refining this would probably help some of your designs later.
Honoured sounds nice on paper but I fear it won’t play very well. It kinda encourages you to have your creatures die instead of stick around, which is odd considering the +1/+1 counters and equipment themes you’ve got going. Also, control decks kinda stomp on this as an aggro mechanic, negating a lot of it’s value. It would have to be used in a standard were control was incredibly weak.
Mantle seems fine. It could be quite fun.
Overwhelm seems… really iffy. It’s a positive feedback mechanic (meaning you’re already doing well so this pushes you into “win more” territory) that gets harder and hard to use on big creatures, AKA, the stuff you’d want to cheat into play. Glancing over your card designs using it, they cycle of mythics you have using it kinda prove those concerns. There abilities range from solid to underwhelming, often just plain unexciting. They all feel like rares if anything. Overwhelm feels more like granting a creature haste when you already have something big on the field while getting a 1 mana discount if any at all. It doesn’t feel like a mechanic that should be in all colors.
Scry and reinforce are fair mechanics to return.
Another general thing to note is the relative power level of cards in your set. I already mentioned the mythic cycle with overwhelm doesn’t really feel mythic. Conversely, a lot of you commons and rares push the power level pretty hard. Reinforce 3 or greater is extremely strong, and shouldn’t be on a common for example. Immersturm Bolt is a extremely powerful common as well that would define limited play and could be standard playable in a burn friendly environment.
Rares of yours are often unfair. Looking at black rares, Decide Fate is better then Enduring Renewal (a very powerful card to be sure) and Darakr Cursemaker is extreme card advantage thanks to the instant speed discard it adds to all your spells (which wizards doesn't do instant discarding for a reason.)
The number of reprints you’ve included so far is also quite high. It kind lowers the appeal when some colors have 3-4 reprints.
Where is mantle used?
There are occasional gems in this set that hint at good ideas (I like Armament Master for example) but there seems to be a lot of missed scaling of effects/grandeur that is holding you back, as well as a lack of an idea of what kind of experience you want your set to create beyond Norse Mythology flavor.
Sorry, I realize this post is all over the place, but just looking to cover my initial impressions.
Eulogy Enforcer1W
Creature - Human Cleric (R)
Morbid - Spells cost 3 more to cast if a creature died this turn We shall take a moment of silence to remember those lost.
1/3
Respect for the dead is something that is forced, not earned.
Now, I realize I'm posting this card after my long explanation that included saying I was not planning on cards "that are oppressive and prevent people from playing." This is perhaps the one card that is in that direction in the entire set and breaks that train of thought. However, I feel it is the right effect to have for a morbid white card and to push something potentially interesting and powerful in formats outside of standard. I like the design, but the numbers may need work as I feel this is probably really powerful, if not overpowered.
Phylactery BurierBB
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
If the game would end in a draw, you win the game instead. My master is eternal. He will gladly trade deaths for he holds more lives than you have to offer.
0/2
I was curious about that too. Does a creature with lifelink count as healing a player? Or does it need to be more instantaneous? (As in, is my current entry valid?)
Perhaps I will. Wasn;t sure if I wanted it on a common, but I feel its easy enough.
Necessary?
Well, the flavor is being tempted to switch sides to an enemy color. I tried to keep temptation as an ability that changed color while gaving the creature an ability it already shared, preferably a tertiary one where it made sense. First Strike is obviously not a good example of that here, but Intimidate is. Also, there are several cards that do care about color, in this set and the second set of the block, so it adds an interesting element while marking the change with a counter.
12 - Yeah, it's pushed. It certainly a redflag. May be better off bumped up a rairty a tweaked.
13 - Exactly haha. Maybe make it cost 2?
15 - Shattering? No. I thought for some reason Black had more "pay life for a counter" effects through history, but seeing as the only one from the past 10 years was in Planar Chaos...yeah. A bit much. If I made a current counter cost (3CC) might it be justifiable? Counters are something that are hated and villianous, and I do see black bartering life for one in this set, but maybe not at common...
16 - Not since Kamigawa. So this may be a bit much, particularly as an instant.
Perhaps not, but I wanted some balancing factor for a 2 CC creature that could be aggressive and somewhat resilient to the -1/-1 counters floating around in the set.
Pain First BR
Instant (C)
Choose one —
• Creatures you control gain first strike until end of turn.
• Creatures you control gain wither until end of turn.
Entwine 1 (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)
For more information on my current set project, Serenta, click here.
1 - 1B
Creature - (C)
Defender
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
1/3
2 - 1B
Creature - (C)
Sacrifice ~: Exile target card from a graveyard.
1/3
3 - 3B
Creature - (C)
B, T: Another target creature gains intimidate until end of turn.
2/3
4 - 2BB
Creature - Zombie (C)
When ~ dies, each player loses 3 life.
3/2
5 - B
Creature - Insect Horror (C)
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
When ~ dies, put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
1/1
6 - 4BB
Creature - (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a -1/-1 counter on target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it.
4/5
7 - 1BB
Creature - (C)
Deathtouch
1/3
8 - 3BB
Creature - (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
3/4
9 - 2BB
Creature - (C)
2/5
10 - 2B
Creature - (C)
Morbid — ~ enters the battlefield with two -1/-1 counters on it unless a creature died this turn.
4/4
11 - 4B
Creature - Horror
Intimidate
4/3
Child of Night (reprint) - 1B
Creature - Vampire (C)
Lifelink
2/1
12 - 2B
Instant (C)
Regenerate target creature. It gains wither until end of turn.
Draw a card.
13 - B
Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant Creature
When enchanted creature attacks or blocks, put a -1/-1 counter on it.
14 - 1BB
Sorcery (C)
You draw 2 cards and you lose 2 life.
Morbid — Instead you draw 3 cards and lose 3 life if a creature died this turn.
15 - BB
Instant (C)
As an additional cost to cast ~, pay 3 life.
Counter target spell
16 - 4B
Instant (C)
Creatures you control get +2/+1 and gain wither until end of turn.
17 - B
Sorcery (C)
Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
Morbid — Put 3 -1/-1 counters on that creature instead if a creature died this turn.
Keeper of Alacrity 4UU
Creature - Sphinx (R)
Temptation (You may have this enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
Flying
As long as Keeper of Alacrity has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has “You may cast nonland, noncreature cards as though they had flash. They can’t be countered.”
5/6
Sphinxes are often guardians of great magical secrets and power. However, even the most stalwart can be driven to temptations, leaving their hidden knowledge free for the taking.
Serenta is a bottom up designed set, so I tend to churn out a number on cards based on the mechanics I have and what abilities would be relevant to interact with them. Some of these commons did have flavor that I stripped from them in order to post them here equally with the other commons I had none for. A lot of the times they have more direct inspirations, but I tend to be more concerned about the mechanics first. Flavor is so much easier to change.
4 - I was trying to avoid another 5 CC white 3/5 vanilla and this is what I slotted in. It is perhaps the weakest design of the lot, and I'm not a fan, but I really try to avoid straight vanillas that aren't at least somewhat distinctive stat wise.
10 - This set is rampant with removal in black and red and I want to make sure white has a couple commons that are resilient to that. That's not to say there isn't a better way of going about it though.
15 - Can do.
16 - Both of you agree on that, so I think I'll make it an instant and the morbid life gain 8.
Glad the temptation creatures are looking good.
Thanks for the clarification. "Anything" that gains life would include a creature with lifelink by my definition, so I should be good to go. If that's a mistake, please correct me.
Keep in mind the sets design goal about malice filled magic, where you are somewhat villainous (though white less so on its surface) and the sets mechanics, which include Wither in other colors.
1 - W
Creature - Human Soldier (C)
Morbid — ~ enters the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it unless a creature died this turn.
2/2
2 - 1WW
Creature - (C)
Flying
When ~ attacks, another target creature you control gains flying until end of turn.
2/2
3 - WW
Creature - (C)
Vigilance
2/2
4 - 3WW
Creature - (C)
When ~ blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
3/4
5 - 3W
Creature - (C)
Flying, first strike
2/3
6 - 2W
Creature - (C)
When ~ dies, put two 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield.
1/2
7 - 1W
Creature - (C)
Temptation (You may have ~ enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
As long as ~ has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s black and has intimidate.
2/2
8 - 2W
Creature - (C)
Whenever ~ is dealt damage, you gain 1 life.
2/3
9 - W
Creature - (C)
Sacrifice ~: Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn.
1/1
10 - 1W
Creature - (C)
Protection from black
2/1
11 - 3W
Creature - (C)
Temptation (You may have ~ enter the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
As long as ~ has a -1/-1 counter on it, it’s red and has first strike.
4/2
12 - 4W
Creature - (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, return target enchantment card from your graveyard to your hand.
3/3
13 - 4W
Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+4 and can block an additional creature.
14 - 1W
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
Draw a card.
15 - 4W
Sorcery (C)
Exile target creature. You gain life equal to the number of counters on it.
16 - 1W
Sorcery (C)
You gain 4 life.
Morbid - You gain 7 life instead if a creature died this turn.
17 - W
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can't attack or block unless it's controller taps another untapped creature he or she controls.
Safe Passage (reprint) 2W
Instant
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and creatures you control this turn.
Torturous Demise 2BB
Sorcery (R)
Destroy target creature. It's controller reveals his or hand. That player discards all cards with a converted mana cost less than the creature's that was destroyed this way.
Best to flee such an end then to accept it.
Enlightning 3UR
Sorcery (U)
Enlightning deals 3 damage to target player. You draw 2 cards.
Sometimes my brain needs a jolt, but I learn just as much jolting theirs.
Flare Javelin (2/R)(2/R)
Sorcery (U)
Flare Javelin deals 4 damage to target player.
Everyone knew how deadly accurate the javelin thrower was when their leader fell dead.
First Rite 5RR
Sorcery (M)
If target player has exactly 20 life, First Rite deals 20 damage to that player.
The young walker had thought himself clever to complete the trial unscathed. Such insult ensured a vengeance he would not endure.
Norse mythology is a cool flavor to focus on, but your design goal isn’t really a design goal. A design goal should be defining what kind of experience and gameplay you intend to create in your set. Right now, it just states the sets flavor and mechanical themes. Refining this would probably help some of your designs later.
Honoured sounds nice on paper but I fear it won’t play very well. It kinda encourages you to have your creatures die instead of stick around, which is odd considering the +1/+1 counters and equipment themes you’ve got going. Also, control decks kinda stomp on this as an aggro mechanic, negating a lot of it’s value. It would have to be used in a standard were control was incredibly weak.
Mantle seems fine. It could be quite fun.
Overwhelm seems… really iffy. It’s a positive feedback mechanic (meaning you’re already doing well so this pushes you into “win more” territory) that gets harder and hard to use on big creatures, AKA, the stuff you’d want to cheat into play. Glancing over your card designs using it, they cycle of mythics you have using it kinda prove those concerns. There abilities range from solid to underwhelming, often just plain unexciting. They all feel like rares if anything. Overwhelm feels more like granting a creature haste when you already have something big on the field while getting a 1 mana discount if any at all. It doesn’t feel like a mechanic that should be in all colors.
Scry and reinforce are fair mechanics to return.
Another general thing to note is the relative power level of cards in your set. I already mentioned the mythic cycle with overwhelm doesn’t really feel mythic. Conversely, a lot of you commons and rares push the power level pretty hard. Reinforce 3 or greater is extremely strong, and shouldn’t be on a common for example. Immersturm Bolt is a extremely powerful common as well that would define limited play and could be standard playable in a burn friendly environment.
Rares of yours are often unfair. Looking at black rares, Decide Fate is better then Enduring Renewal (a very powerful card to be sure) and Darakr Cursemaker is extreme card advantage thanks to the instant speed discard it adds to all your spells (which wizards doesn't do instant discarding for a reason.)
The number of reprints you’ve included so far is also quite high. It kind lowers the appeal when some colors have 3-4 reprints.
Where is mantle used?
There are occasional gems in this set that hint at good ideas (I like Armament Master for example) but there seems to be a lot of missed scaling of effects/grandeur that is holding you back, as well as a lack of an idea of what kind of experience you want your set to create beyond Norse Mythology flavor.
Sorry, I realize this post is all over the place, but just looking to cover my initial impressions.
Eulogy Enforcer 1W
Creature - Human Cleric (R)
Morbid - Spells cost 3 more to cast if a creature died this turn
We shall take a moment of silence to remember those lost.
1/3
Respect for the dead is something that is forced, not earned.
Now, I realize I'm posting this card after my long explanation that included saying I was not planning on cards "that are oppressive and prevent people from playing." This is perhaps the one card that is in that direction in the entire set and breaks that train of thought. However, I feel it is the right effect to have for a morbid white card and to push something potentially interesting and powerful in formats outside of standard. I like the design, but the numbers may need work as I feel this is probably really powerful, if not overpowered.
Thoughts?
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
If the game would end in a draw, you win the game instead.
My master is eternal. He will gladly trade deaths for he holds more lives than you have to offer.
0/2