Treasure Map takes 4 turns, because you need to tap to transform it and both abilities from Treasure Cove also need tapping. So after you transform it you still need to untap to net 1 card.
Comparing both of them being cast turn 2 without spare mana, by turn 5 you'll have 3 more cards in hand with Pyramid, and 0 with Map (only having 3 scryes to account for). It ramps 3 mana for you on turn 5, which is probably too slow anyway though.
Shaku may be better than Relic IF you have legendary permanents you're willing to tap. What are our legendary-non-mana permanents? Daretti, Mindslaver, maybe Neheb, and the PWs (maybe I'm forgetting a creature). I really don't think we need it. I cut Worn Powerstone for Star Compass in my latest builds because it's too slow. Daretti NEEDS to hit the table on turn 3 against aggro, so even Powerstone doesn't make the cut for me now.
I have a hard time putting Revoker against Needle, since they're both excellent. There's a case for playing all 3 (Revoker, Needle and Spyglass) in the deck, since we have so few ways to deal with PWs. But I cannot count how many times I Revoked a crucial mana source of the opponent, delaying him enough for me to take control of the game. Mana rocks against Breya/Kaalia, Big mana rocks against Maelstrom (things like Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo, etc) or big mana producers like Rofellos or even an Llanowar Elves just to stop that turn 3-4 Titania. I love it.
@Ashiok, I think all those cards are no that good in the deck though. Treasure Map is worse than Sunset Pyramid since Pyramid draws you cards immediately. Map takes 4 turns to come online - I really think it's that bad.
Honor-Worn Shaku is also bad, becauseyou don't want a 3 mana card that MAYBE generates 2 mana. Coalition Relic is better if we need that, and I don't think we do because mana-rocks that cost 3 mana are way too slow here. Powerstone is an exception, but even Powerstone is damn slow and cuttable.
Sorcerous Spyglass is a great addition to the deck, though. But NOT in place of Revoker. Phyrexian Revoker can stop mana sources, which is invaluable. Sometimes revoking a Thran Dynamo against Maelstrom, or a Rofellos against elfball is perfect. Spyglass substitutes Pithing Needle. There are rare stances where you need the Needle effect that early (usually against a Deathrite Shaman or a turn 1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy). Having information on what to name is way better than the 1 mana it costs more.
Midseason Banned and Restricted Announcement Implementation
The mid-season banned and restricted announcement is this Monday, August 28. Existing constructed are currently set to end Wednesday, August 30.
Hum. Cool! Hope they change a lot of stuff.
Last announcements were all on wednesday if I remember correctly though (I may be wrong because I haven't cared for the format too much in the last few months).
Just because the league ends on Monday doesn't mean there's any update on Monday. MTGO client goes down for maintenance every wednesday and as far as I know they're only able to change banlists with the servers down. Therefore every update in the history of MTGO-only formats will be on a wednesday (even if they announce it earlier). Is there any precedent of this happening different with, say, Pauper?
I'm ok with it being "Leviathan without Vial", although we should actually put both lists side by side to see the real differences (I don't have the time right now).
Unbanning Erayo is a pretty big mistake IMO.
And yes, Griselbrand should probably be unbanned if Oloro is banned (so Oloro Reanimator is not a thing).
UNBAN
Arcum Dagsson
Bazaar of Baghdad
Braids, Cabal Minion
Doomsday
Moat
Treachery
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
BAN
Mystical
Vampiric
Imperial Seal
High Tide
Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Breya
Cataclysm
Emrakul
Oloro (can't have Oloro and Doomsday at the same time)
and MAYBE, just maybe, Jace TMS
I think this would balance a lot of things out and keep stuff interesting. MonoU without High Tide or Emrakul is not that solid imo.
Where can I go to see an actual up to date version of the MTGO 1v1 Duel Commander Banlist? I swear I hear about new bans every so often but when I check the Wizards website it doesn't look any different.
That's the problem, Bal. With the ammount of bannings and the release of an upheaval every year (Commander product), it's very hard to stabilize. My concern when we changed from 30 to 20 life was exactly this: we'd have more bans per year and a less stable format. I just hope Wizards gets to a stable point quick or their format will die too.
I never wanted Balance to be unbanned (I know thats not what you are saying) and I agree with what you said about that card, except I would never, based on the differences in opinion on one card (or more for that matter), say that the other person/player lack basic game understanding.
I dont even wanna go into how I think your analogy with LoA is wrong too. So lets settle it here, we disagree on this matter, I guess thats okay.
Of course LoA is more powerful, but you understand what I said though: I don't think the arguments in favor of unbanning Tabernacle are close to reality - just as someone advocating that LoA is OK because it's easy to deal with is also a mistake. Anyway, leave Tabernacle alone
If someone says Balance is OK to be unbanned because "it's not that good in control vs aggro" then well... they don't know that they're talking about. I, it's not a matter of "being superior", just of basic game understanding and experience - most people talking stuff about Balance in that topic had never cast one, so yeah they didn't know.
To be fair, I advocated in support of the Balance unban. But I freely admit that was for my own selfish needs to play it in Alesha. I'm well aware of it's swingy nature and what it's implications are - I just want to unbalance some games with balance.
I'm a Vintage/Old School player, so I hear you. I'd love to just be able to unban everything and play the format anyway - Highlander feels very appealing to me exactly for that. Maybe that's the real singleton format: it doesn't suffer from having a command zone and every card is available to play, which is awesome.
Vial was only absurd because of partner. On its own it was a very mediocre deck.
I feel we adressed this before actually. Of course Partner makes Vial insane, but if he costed UBR, he'd be MUCH better alone than he's just being 1BR. Kraum helps him by being a 9 damage threat, but also by adding blue. I bet if he was grixis and didn't have partner he'd be banned too.
If someone says Balance is OK to be unbanned because "it's not that good in control vs aggro" then well... they don't know that they're talking about. I, it's not a matter of "being superior", just of basic game understanding and experience - most people talking stuff about Balance in that topic had never cast one, so yeah they didn't know.
About Tabernacle, you can disagree with me all you want, that's ok. I'm not gonna put us in a perpetual circle talking about the card. The main point is that yes, it is too strong to be unbanned and no, it's not easy for every deck to deal with it at all. For me it feels very close to saying LoA could be unbanned because it's easy to deal with and only hurts control mirrors.
Man, come on, of course I understand the difference between Tabernacle and Strip Mine, I'm not dumb. As I said a few times, it's an ANALOGY. As simple as that. And for creature-heavy strategies, Tabernacle hurts mana development just like an Strip Mine every turn does. Is it the same thing? Nope. Is it analog and comparable, yes. I don't think Tabernacle is safe AT ALL in this format and I really believe whoever defends that doesn't understand the card properly (just like everyone who defended Balance's unban back then just didn't know what it did properly).
I also believe Commander is bound to be an unbalanced format. I see no problem with that, as long as we don't have decks dominating 20% of the meta. Legacy is in a good place right now and I'm playing it too.
Well... I feel we had this discussion before somewhere but if you have several different decks in a meta but none of them makes Top 8s, is it really diversity?
Diversity isn't having a bunch of decks present in tournaments: it's having a bunch of decks doing well in different tournaments.
I really don't get how Commander players react to bans... people thought Marath was oppressive when he had 4% of the Top 8s and now think Geist is OK when he has 11-20%. Go figure...
Comparing both of them being cast turn 2 without spare mana, by turn 5 you'll have 3 more cards in hand with Pyramid, and 0 with Map (only having 3 scryes to account for). It ramps 3 mana for you on turn 5, which is probably too slow anyway though.
Shaku may be better than Relic IF you have legendary permanents you're willing to tap. What are our legendary-non-mana permanents? Daretti, Mindslaver, maybe Neheb, and the PWs (maybe I'm forgetting a creature). I really don't think we need it. I cut Worn Powerstone for Star Compass in my latest builds because it's too slow. Daretti NEEDS to hit the table on turn 3 against aggro, so even Powerstone doesn't make the cut for me now.
I have a hard time putting Revoker against Needle, since they're both excellent. There's a case for playing all 3 (Revoker, Needle and Spyglass) in the deck, since we have so few ways to deal with PWs. But I cannot count how many times I Revoked a crucial mana source of the opponent, delaying him enough for me to take control of the game. Mana rocks against Breya/Kaalia, Big mana rocks against Maelstrom (things like Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo, etc) or big mana producers like Rofellos or even an Llanowar Elves just to stop that turn 3-4 Titania. I love it.
Honor-Worn Shaku is also bad, becauseyou don't want a 3 mana card that MAYBE generates 2 mana. Coalition Relic is better if we need that, and I don't think we do because mana-rocks that cost 3 mana are way too slow here. Powerstone is an exception, but even Powerstone is damn slow and cuttable.
Sorcerous Spyglass is a great addition to the deck, though. But NOT in place of Revoker. Phyrexian Revoker can stop mana sources, which is invaluable. Sometimes revoking a Thran Dynamo against Maelstrom, or a Rofellos against elfball is perfect. Spyglass substitutes Pithing Needle. There are rare stances where you need the Needle effect that early (usually against a Deathrite Shaman or a turn 1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy). Having information on what to name is way better than the 1 mana it costs more.
Hum. Cool! Hope they change a lot of stuff.
Last announcements were all on wednesday if I remember correctly though (I may be wrong because I haven't cared for the format too much in the last few months).
Unbanning Erayo is a pretty big mistake IMO.
And yes, Griselbrand should probably be unbanned if Oloro is banned (so Oloro Reanimator is not a thing).
UNBAN
Arcum Dagsson
Bazaar of Baghdad
Braids, Cabal Minion
Doomsday
Moat
Treachery
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
BAN
Mystical
Vampiric
Imperial Seal
High Tide
Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Breya
Cataclysm
Emrakul
Oloro (can't have Oloro and Doomsday at the same time)
and MAYBE, just maybe, Jace TMS
I think this would balance a lot of things out and keep stuff interesting. MonoU without High Tide or Emrakul is not that solid imo.
www.commander1v1.com
Of course LoA is more powerful, but you understand what I said though: I don't think the arguments in favor of unbanning Tabernacle are close to reality - just as someone advocating that LoA is OK because it's easy to deal with is also a mistake. Anyway, leave Tabernacle alone
I'm a Vintage/Old School player, so I hear you. I'd love to just be able to unban everything and play the format anyway - Highlander feels very appealing to me exactly for that. Maybe that's the real singleton format: it doesn't suffer from having a command zone and every card is available to play, which is awesome.
I feel we adressed this before actually. Of course Partner makes Vial insane, but if he costed UBR, he'd be MUCH better alone than he's just being 1BR. Kraum helps him by being a 9 damage threat, but also by adding blue. I bet if he was grixis and didn't have partner he'd be banned too.
About Tabernacle, you can disagree with me all you want, that's ok. I'm not gonna put us in a perpetual circle talking about the card. The main point is that yes, it is too strong to be unbanned and no, it's not easy for every deck to deal with it at all. For me it feels very close to saying LoA could be unbanned because it's easy to deal with and only hurts control mirrors.
I also believe Commander is bound to be an unbalanced format. I see no problem with that, as long as we don't have decks dominating 20% of the meta. Legacy is in a good place right now and I'm playing it too.
Diversity isn't having a bunch of decks present in tournaments: it's having a bunch of decks doing well in different tournaments.