To add to the LOTV discussion. I think she is very good in the mirror, and overrall a super solid SB card since it's very good against most combo, control and Eldrazi decks. The problem is that she's not that good in the BGx matchups and against Jeskai/UW she is good but they can handle a 1 or 2 off. That's why in an open metagame, Last Hope is usually just better because she forwards our grindy plan and makes our large threats recursive WHILE being a threat by her own. She's a plain slam dunk in Grixis Shadow. The mirror comes down to top decks and better sequencing in my opinion.
I love the points he makes about Modern and efficiency. Also, i'm almost bought into the Temur Battle Rage idea. WHen i tested the card, i found it mediocre, but the fact that Modern is so wide open makes me want to give them a try again. It opens the SB up a lot.
No need for apologies. I'm just saying that the similarities are there, and the banning criteria fits(not that it matters too much for WOTC).
The only thing that makes me think that DS wouldn't be nerfed is that 2017 was a complete fiasco from the competitive standpoint. Modern was their best format by a mile(and it's still regardless i've heard many people say that Standard is actually fixed now and a blast), and more bannings in their flagship formats would be too loose from a marketing POV. It's clear most people are having a good time with Modern, included myself. I just make arguements and back up my reasonings with a comprehensive view of their past actions in the Modern format.
They can easily leave Shadow be until 2018 when the waters are settled down a bit more and then see if the formats health is a good place.
Completely agree. Red is at its best in tandem with Snapcaster Mage. Kommand,Bolt,etc are very good with it. Also, i would be hesitant to make any assumption about the Modern metagame until HOU is playable. Claim//Fame is going to be a staple in UB/X DS, in my humble opinion.
If you project that thought, you see that Path to Exile should become even better. I'm not sure how it will affect Grixis Shadow's matchups, but Control will not be so hard. Esper Shadow could become better after Claim....
Agree. I'd rather have no changes above all. A Street Wraith ban would be expected from my part because the card feels as degenerate as Probe and in Death's Shadow it just does too much. Grixis DS is the best deck in Modern and pros(LSV and Hoogland among others) have been vocal about Shadow being too good. Following Modern Banlist History, they wouldn't like to chop the head off right from the start, they would want to lower its power level and consistency by banning a core card of all Shadow decks without being Shadow itself. Street Wraith fits the Probe criteria of 'doing too much for too little' and Shadow remains being a thing.
I want to say though, that an unban would a SHOCK for me. Every card in the banlist is a public enemy for Wizards, between past boogeymans and them wanting Modern to be a different animal form Legacy, i don't expect them to unban cards that see play in Legacy such as Stoneforge and Jace REGARDLESS they 'look' safe in Modern. Preordain is pretty much out of question right now with 2 Blue-based, high-cantriping decks among Top Tiers in DS and Storm.
I asked Gabriel Nassif and other streamer that i can't recall his name right now, if SFM could/would be unbanned in Modern. They both said absolutely effin NOT. Nassif told me he would play her for sure in his UW deck and that she would be too strong for the format. I can say though, he seems traumatized by Caw-Blade Standard though...
For me the best direction WOTC could take in August 28th is: No Unbans, No Bans or Ban Wraith. Then you can see where the meta goes from there. Of course, the Wraith ban should be tested upon and actually conclude that Shadow is ok for the format and remains as a competitive force, which in my opinion is making good for the metagame instead of bad.
EDIT: Forgot about something in the SFM paragraph.
Quick question: What does Surgical Extraction accomplish in our deck besides the Dredge matchup? Is it really that good against combo? I guess against Valakut it could be good, but Nauseam is already bringing Leyline which invalidates Discard spells which are the realiable way of putting pieces into their GY.
Oh definitely. Our deck does lose despite many people beliefs. Eldrazi Tron is nowhere a good matchup, 5050 at most and this is considering the players sitting are very good players or pros.
I'm of those persons who still believe DS is very good but not oppressively good.
Chamaleon Colossus seems like a total beating. Valakut decks are proving powerful in this metagame. I think it had a few 7-1 in the MOCS.
I'm still waiting for HOU release to see what people do with Claim//Fame. I thought it was medium since Fame costed 2R, but when a friend told me it was 1R it changed my mind, i think the card is quite bonkers in our deck(maybe Jund version uses it better? Doubt it). Before that, i really can't do serious testing.
Also, this deck is really slowing down on growing uptick. I really hope it gets hated hard and people actually start playing other strategies like BW Pox and UW Control which wreck Shadow pretty hard. Still, Grixis DS is the best deck in the format and i fully expect action from R&D and WOTC.
Preordain is too much of a boost in Shadow in its current iteration. Without Street Wraith(which is the number one card to go in August if they decide to keep Shadow as a thing) Preordain is not that scary anymore as it doesn't further the suicide plan, instead it lets you dig for your cards.
Storm is the only strategy that makes Preordain risky if they make the right bannings. I think axing Grapeshot is a net win for the format, much like Twin was seen at the time of its ban as a lock for cards to get printed and unbanned(Av was quoted by Aaron Forsythe).
Twin is not coming off now or never regardless Preordain is banned or not. AV is the nail in the coffin in Wotc eyes.
I think i'm in a lonely position here but i actually think they have to Ban Street Wraith and Grapeshot, Unban Preordain, Stoneforge and if the numbers allow it, Bloodbraid Elf too.
By banning those two cards you get rid of the enabler which still feels degenerate by doing too much(Like Gitaxian Probe which i think it was rightfully banned) and the best and faster combo archetype that ever existed in Storm(which they obviosuly hate too) and keep us attached to Legacy speed. Instead you get: Midrange tools to be proactive and bold in SFM and BBE(although i have nightmares about BBE into LotV), and the filtering needed to align answers to questions. Spell based combo is still viable in Nauseam but a legal T4 speed, Shadow becomes slower but more consistent in Preordain, and Blue-based control gets another high power cantrip and a win con.
This is too much of a shake for an announcement alone, but in two it could work. However, i do feel by the look of the format and DS dominance numbers that Street Wraith is rightfully getting choped on August.
It does feel as though shadow and Abzan are the only viable fair decks
Grixis control is very dead
Jund shadow is too all in, it only did well because the meta was combo centric. It's honestly s tier 2 deck.
Jund isn't viable thanks to e tron and other big mana and GY decks.
.
The meta is interactive but I do find it interesting that grixis shadow and Abzan have become The only fair midrange decks now, control isn't really viable outside of an fnm either
We really need 3 huge unbans to happen at the same time, I think
Agree with pretty much everything
I think the format is healthy right now but in a Modern way. The format still has tremendous flaws like Unfair and Aggro decks ruling the format and Lands being so overpowered in contrast with the answers.
The problem is that WOTC doesn't want Modern to be Legacy like, they want it to be different from Standard and Legacy. I actually think the healthier states of Modern History came from Legacy-type of environments where Tempo and some form of Midrange style where very good, so everybody could still do their thing but know that decks wanting to interact where the sheriffs in the town. Still, the format was trashed by people and pro's. The more the format loses overall power in interactive shells the more it becomes 'Who drops the biggest thing before'.
In conclusion, i'm a firm supporter of the idea that 'Aggro and Linear Dominating is a Feature not a Flaw' is straight misunderstaing of the goals of the game,and are just too conformists. People like to play more than 4 Turns, get over it. Even if every know and then you get to play an absurdly fast game, it's should be the lesser type and THAT should be a Feature, all kinds of games represented for everyone in fairly distributed amounts.
I hope the new team and changes in WOTC reflects on August and they do the right thing.
You can see here only 2 Sleights and 18 lands. I know cutting down lands seems greedy, but it should make the deck more compact and more redundant which are good things.
Also, i think with Grixis Shadow closing in a whopping 15% of the metagame, it's safe to say that Liliana of the Veil is pretty much a SB staple as it fights several decks AND the mirror. Eldrazi,Combo and UW(R)/x hate her too.
He drops Bolts(which i don't completely like) and 1 Snap Mage!. I stated before that Snapcaster can clog up in your hand, but it's hard to play only 3 copies of the 2nd best creature ever lol.
This is a real problem within the UW community, they never seem to reach an agreement on lists or versions, nor a consensus with AV/Sphinx. For example, you have Greg Orange who was on the GP winning team playing his AV build, which i like as a model of UW with AV. But then you have Corey/Cheon and Nassif that choose Sphinx's 25 lands build. I'm not sure which is better for the current metagame, but i know that the AV build feels more powerful, i guess the difference is so minimal that it's basically a matter of taste and playstyle.
EDIT PS: I don't know if this article has been brought up here, but i found it very interesting and insightful. Andrew Jessup on GDS: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/andrewjessup-06202017-deaths-shadow-is-the-good-guy/
I love the points he makes about Modern and efficiency. Also, i'm almost bought into the Temur Battle Rage idea. WHen i tested the card, i found it mediocre, but the fact that Modern is so wide open makes me want to give them a try again. It opens the SB up a lot.
The only thing that makes me think that DS wouldn't be nerfed is that 2017 was a complete fiasco from the competitive standpoint. Modern was their best format by a mile(and it's still regardless i've heard many people say that Standard is actually fixed now and a blast), and more bannings in their flagship formats would be too loose from a marketing POV. It's clear most people are having a good time with Modern, included myself. I just make arguements and back up my reasonings with a comprehensive view of their past actions in the Modern format.
They can easily leave Shadow be until 2018 when the waters are settled down a bit more and then see if the formats health is a good place.
If you project that thought, you see that Path to Exile should become even better. I'm not sure how it will affect Grixis Shadow's matchups, but Control will not be so hard. Esper Shadow could become better after Claim....
I want to say though, that an unban would a SHOCK for me. Every card in the banlist is a public enemy for Wizards, between past boogeymans and them wanting Modern to be a different animal form Legacy, i don't expect them to unban cards that see play in Legacy such as Stoneforge and Jace REGARDLESS they 'look' safe in Modern. Preordain is pretty much out of question right now with 2 Blue-based, high-cantriping decks among Top Tiers in DS and Storm.
I asked Gabriel Nassif and other streamer that i can't recall his name right now, if SFM could/would be unbanned in Modern. They both said absolutely effin NOT. Nassif told me he would play her for sure in his UW deck and that she would be too strong for the format. I can say though, he seems traumatized by Caw-Blade Standard though...
For me the best direction WOTC could take in August 28th is: No Unbans, No Bans or Ban Wraith. Then you can see where the meta goes from there. Of course, the Wraith ban should be tested upon and actually conclude that Shadow is ok for the format and remains as a competitive force, which in my opinion is making good for the metagame instead of bad.
EDIT: Forgot about something in the SFM paragraph.
I'm of those persons who still believe DS is very good but not oppressively good.
Chamaleon Colossus seems like a total beating. Valakut decks are proving powerful in this metagame. I think it had a few 7-1 in the MOCS.
Also, this deck is really slowing down on growing uptick. I really hope it gets hated hard and people actually start playing other strategies like BW Pox and UW Control which wreck Shadow pretty hard. Still, Grixis DS is the best deck in the format and i fully expect action from R&D and WOTC.
Storm is the only strategy that makes Preordain risky if they make the right bannings. I think axing Grapeshot is a net win for the format, much like Twin was seen at the time of its ban as a lock for cards to get printed and unbanned(Av was quoted by Aaron Forsythe).
Twin is not coming off now or never regardless Preordain is banned or not. AV is the nail in the coffin in Wotc eyes.
By banning those two cards you get rid of the enabler which still feels degenerate by doing too much(Like Gitaxian Probe which i think it was rightfully banned) and the best and faster combo archetype that ever existed in Storm(which they obviosuly hate too) and keep us attached to Legacy speed. Instead you get: Midrange tools to be proactive and bold in SFM and BBE(although i have nightmares about BBE into LotV), and the filtering needed to align answers to questions. Spell based combo is still viable in Nauseam but a legal T4 speed, Shadow becomes slower but more consistent in Preordain, and Blue-based control gets another high power cantrip and a win con.
This is too much of a shake for an announcement alone, but in two it could work. However, i do feel by the look of the format and DS dominance numbers that Street Wraith is rightfully getting choped on August.
Agree with pretty much everything
I think the format is healthy right now but in a Modern way. The format still has tremendous flaws like Unfair and Aggro decks ruling the format and Lands being so overpowered in contrast with the answers.
The problem is that WOTC doesn't want Modern to be Legacy like, they want it to be different from Standard and Legacy. I actually think the healthier states of Modern History came from Legacy-type of environments where Tempo and some form of Midrange style where very good, so everybody could still do their thing but know that decks wanting to interact where the sheriffs in the town. Still, the format was trashed by people and pro's. The more the format loses overall power in interactive shells the more it becomes 'Who drops the biggest thing before'.
In conclusion, i'm a firm supporter of the idea that 'Aggro and Linear Dominating is a Feature not a Flaw' is straight misunderstaing of the goals of the game,and are just too conformists. People like to play more than 4 Turns, get over it. Even if every know and then you get to play an absurdly fast game, it's should be the lesser type and THAT should be a Feature, all kinds of games represented for everyone in fairly distributed amounts.
I hope the new team and changes in WOTC reflects on August and they do the right thing.
http://f2fseries.facetofacegames.com/facetofacegames-com-edmonton-open-coverage-june-24th-2017/
You can see here only 2 Sleights and 18 lands. I know cutting down lands seems greedy, but it should make the deck more compact and more redundant which are good things.
Also, i think with Grixis Shadow closing in a whopping 15% of the metagame, it's safe to say that Liliana of the Veil is pretty much a SB staple as it fights several decks AND the mirror. Eldrazi,Combo and UW(R)/x hate her too.
Evaporating Melody
UUX- Instant: Gain control of target creature with converted cost X.
Seems pretty good to fight blue control closing problems.
He drops Bolts(which i don't completely like) and 1 Snap Mage!. I stated before that Snapcaster can clog up in your hand, but it's hard to play only 3 copies of the 2nd best creature ever lol.