MTG Salvation

Sold my entire collection (cards + tix) to MTGO Traders today. They had the best offer and the process was quite easy and fast.

Most of my card purchases in the last 4 years were done with them and I never had any issues.

Fully recommended.

Tron still has its explosive/unfair draws. It lost the late game lock, but should survive.

I have to applaud them for finally taking more risks. This slows down Eldrazi but probably keeps the deck alive, while also enable some new decks. Yes, AV and Sword could lead to some decks that are just too good, but it's the right time to take that chance.

Quote from GraveTitan15 »

I often found myself struggling to brew any deck with blue and/or red because after a while I would just tell myself "I can't beat twin with this... Might as well just add it to the deck". It pigeon holes the two most popular colors in the format into one deck type.

This is reversed logic. This logic (same one WoTC claimed) affirms that people aren't playing other URx decks because they just play Twin instead. Okay, that's true, but that's because these other decks all suck. You can't play a fair URx deck in this format without a combo. It would be valid if we had URx decks pretty close to tier 1 + some kind of unban to make them stronger. But you just remove a good matchup these decks had, a deck that held random unfair crap in check and expect it to get better?

Sure, you can play your Blue Moon, UR tempo/Delver deck now for lack of a better option. But that doesn't make these decks any better. They were all weak, and if anything they're even weaker now.

So they banned Twin to make more space for blue spells without worrying about making Twin better. That's why they unbanned AV and JTMS right?

Oh wait, they didn't.

It also makes no sense to ban Twin to make Ux decks more playable. Twin was a good matchup for these decks and kept decks like Tron (awful matchups for most fair decks) in check. So you ban a deck that actually helped the other Ux decks to make they more playable... ok?

Decks like Scapeshift, Gifts, UWR Control/Geist just all got *worse*, not better. They lost a good matchup + the bad matchups got a bump. I really don't get the rationale.

Quote from welcome_addiction »

I never mentioned that Control was brought down because of Twin's MU, in fact Twin was a relatively GOOD MU for control. I said however that one didn't really have any serious reason to innovate, brew, and play control, because he could play Twin.

Because every Control deck without a combo sucks in Golfishing.format? The tier 1 is Tron, Affinity, Burn and Infect. It's not that you could play the Twin combo in these decks, the issue is that you can't beat these decks consistently without a combo.

*thanks Tezna for the awesome banner

MonoU Tron is a deck powered by the so-called Urzatron lands (Urza's Mine, Urza's Power Plant and Urza's Tower) which, together, produce 7 mana instead of just three. This allows you to cast powerful win conditions and obtain the dreamy inevitability.

The plan is to stall the early game while playing a good amount of cantrips, mana fixers/ramp and card draw until you assemble the full "Tron". Reaching that point gives you a large resource advantage, greatly reducing the possibility of losing the game.

Blue gives you almost everything you need to control the early game, stabilize your board position, refill your hand and win - counters, bounce, draw and wincon tutoring. You should also play a good number of utility artifacts like Talisman of Dominance and Expedition Map to get color fixing and assemble the Tron faster.

After that you'll usually win via Mindslaver lock (Mindslaver + Academy Ruins + 12 mana, letting you recurrently control your opponent's turn), Sundering Titan (punishing greedy manabases) or Wurmcoil Engine (beats the crap out of aggro decks). You also have Platinum Angel for the combo matchups and overall last resort.


The deck is fun, cheap (for a competitive deck) and powerful. Can't get better than that. It combines aspects from tempo and control decks, it's highly interactive and demands a lot skill and practice, being highly rewarding.

It has a good matchup versus Combo and Control. You pack a good amount of permission and Tron gives you inevitability if the game goes long, so these matchups are generally favorable even before sideboarding.

On the other hand, the matchup versus fast aggressive decks is bad as it has always been for monoblue decks. Most of the SB space is dedicated to that matchups for this reason.


In the early game you play Talismans/Signets and Expedition Map to fix your colors and get the Tron online. In the meantime you'll use cards like Remand, Repeal and Condescend to control the game until you can do a game-ending move, being it a big creature or the Mindslaver lock. If your draws does not help you, Treasure Mage is there to ensure you'll get your finishers and Thirst for Knowledge works great to refill your hand and dig for the missing pieces or answers.

If you have enough mana and Academy Ruins (or a Map to get it), most of the times you'll tutor for Mindslaver and go for the lock. If you still don't have it in place, it's common to fetch Sundering Titan if you're playing against a deck full of shocklands or Wurmcoil Engine otherwise. Platinum Angel is a good option when facing combo decks or when you fall behind against decks that can't deal with it.

Also keep in mind that even without the lock in place, one or two Mindslavers activations can win a lot of games.

There are also the occasions when you'll win via Solemn Simulacrum/Treasure Mage beats, these guys can be a decently fast clock with permission backup.


That's how the creator of the deck (shoktroopa on MTGO) affectionately calls it. It fits well with the theme, as all the wincons are "machines".


Why no Karn Liberated?


Utility lands


Mana fixers/acceleration


Bounce/Removal


Counters


Card draw


Utility creatures


Finishers


Artifacts

The thing is, even though Warping Wail can counter sorceries, well, we already play "real" countermagic. That's why I think this is be better for Gr Tron than for U Tron. It's conditional removal + a bad counter (for a blue deck) + a useless third mode. For Gr Tron it provides something they just don't have access to.

It's really hard to think about some card I would like to remove from this deck to add Warping Wail. All the countermagic is better and even though we don't have access to "real" removal (outside Dismember), 1/x or x/1 creatures are not really the issues this deck has.

Warping Wail seems way better on Gr Tron since they get to play a counter for LD. Don't think U Tron needs that. The removal mode is okay though. Honestly I have no strong opinions on that card for this deck.

Matter Reshaper is interesting. When I first saw the spoiler I thought it might even replace Solemn, since it costs less. The issue is Solemn doesn't need to die to provide value, while this guy has to. So if you play against decks that aren't attacking you, it's hard to extract value from the card.

Hello U Tron! So, I haven't played MtG in a while and just decided to take a look at how things are now.

Since I'm still the thread "owner", do you want me to add something to the Primer? I don't see a lot of new lists or tech around, this deck hasn't received much love from Wotc lately I guess.

Heh, giving an opponent 7 cards and passing the turn in a format like this is suicidal with this kind of deck.

Cards like Inifinite Oblitaration are usually garbage. It's pure card disadvantage. If an opponent is boarding that against this deck to remove Snapcaster I'll be happy.

This is as close to Control you can get in Modern. The decks trying to emulate a "pure" Control strategy are subpar at best and often just garbage. I learned to accept it.

Again, going for a turn 2-3 fattie is not obligatory. It requires skill to evaluate the game state and make that decision. If you do that every game (or never do that) you'll have a bad time. The nice thing about the deck is the *ability* to go for that, while the "purer" Control decks in the format always failed due to the lack of an ability to "shortcut" games when needed.

We can't play around both Lili and Bolt there.
Bolt is only lethal if we don't remove either creature. Lili is lethal if we don't remove Goyf.
If you don't want to have any possibility to die on the next turn, exiling Goyf and a land is correct.
If you want to maximize your chances to win the game through a Lili and Bolt in hand, it may be correct to exile Bob and Blood Crypt. It temporarily plays around both Bolt and Lili, though it turns on Blackcleave Cliffs and any land off the top -> Lili kills you.
If you think you can win the game through a Lili(you probably can, our topdecks are much better), exile both dudes.

Thanks so much for all the support and hopefully I can finish strong and do the deck proud, hopefully I didn't miss too much on the deck the deck tech video and I hope y'all enjoyed it.

Losses so far were to Jund and Zoo, Wins vs merfolk x2, twin, storm, affinity, junk, and one other that I cant remember at the moment.

Pretty scared for the rg tron matchup as I felt it was pointless to try to board for that and will hppe to dodge it all the way to the t8.

Wish me luck!

Ps, Amelia's is a fantasic bakery in charlotte should you ever be in town.

thats just like one big word.

Edit 5/14/2015: Original post deleted as it was just brainstormings

Glad to see 4 Color Gifts is still a contender. I must say your list from the TCG Platinum is certainly intriguing. Very reminiscent of sultai control. But playing without Path to Exile or Lingering Souls? Not even a single copy of either? Surely if you're trying to keep the curve low, Path would be a good fit?

I'm not one to argue with results. I really like some of the tech you employ, such as maxing out on Serum Visions and Inquisition. The playset of Timely in the board still makes me wonder if Lingering Souls warrants main deck space.

Anticipate is an interesting consideration. I feel that people are just thirsty for brainstorm, and anticipate isn't going to cut it. I have been loving serum visions along side turn 1 discard spells, and running Darkslick Shores to help keep my turn ones flexible (in my esper delve).

I'm used to playing a variation of Butakov's junk gifts, but as Knight of the Reliquary becomes more obsolete, I'm thinking it's time to cut back on my green, dropping Birds of Paradise and Eternal Witness.

The New PlanMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (7):
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Spells (29):
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Mana Leak
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Path to Exile
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime
1 Life from the Loam
1 Unburial Rites

Lands (24):
4 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Negate
2 Damnation
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Darkblast
1 Disfigure



One other question I do have is regarding your thoughts on Tasigur. I've found him to be useful more often than not. I actually cut Birds of Paradise from old list to ensure he doesn't ever bump into one. But these lists are composed of so many value cards, the Elesh Norn is probably the only card you can't reliably cast from hand, especially if you're at the point where you're activating Tasigur.

It does seem a pretty common consensus that there should be some number of Lingering Souls and Path to Exile. The question is how many can the manabase support so I'm trying to incorporate numbers to see how far we can go. I'll be sure to post the results.

Have you had better results with Tasigur? Every time I've activated him I got something anemic. It grants value but at an agonizingly slow pace. Even slower than loam/ruins/ee/batterskull. I think too against desks where tasigur activations would be good those decks tend to have removal that would normally be fairly poor or we'd get some type of value from it (like Thragtusk or Titan, even Creeping tar Pit as the opportunity cost is less than a card). Oddly enough too, delving cards from my yard at times was a painful decision because we want lands for loam, and want cards for snap, or Rites.

If we go more Junk-esk, or more Lingering Souls, Tasigur's value increases. My opinion of Tasigur in the Sultai wedged Gifts lists is low.

This actually brings to mind another flaw of the Gifts deck in modern which is (4) that changing one card in the list is rarely if ever a simple swap. Everything is so woven together it seems, that changing something as simple as Go for the Throat to Path to Exile has huge impacts ranging from color concerns, mana concerns, potential damage from lands, tempo from exile's land, GftT's artifact clause, snapcaster costs, tasigur's ability, etc. Let alone changing a land can possibly do to the deck. A beautiful curse

Hello I am oRS and I stream with 4c Control Gifts. I recently wrote a primer on the control version of the deck since a lot of my viewers seemed interested in it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1psxMcKjvuFd3dXsJ27DbSI2aKd1nbKWBk4_TjzD7kHc/pub

Feel free to let me know what you people think about it I'll do my best to respond to any feedback.

Scapeshift wants to make land drops every turn and then resolve scapeshift. In the process of hitting lands and trying to find scapeshift it wants to not die.

The basic idea is every turn you want to play 2 cards, a land and a spell that interacts with your opponent(to prevent you from dying). However there is a problem, you only draw 1 card per turn but your deck wants to play 2 per turn. So to play 2 cards per turn one of those cards needs to replace itself. So you get to play a land every turn and you get to play a spell as well since they replace themselves. So you get around the draw 1 card per turn rule.

For example
It's turn 2 you play a 2nd land and say go(you have 2 untapped lands
It's your opponent's turn 3 and they slam kitchen finks. You remand their finks. You stopped their turn 3 play and you drew an extra card that's either a land or a disruptive cantrip and you also get your next draw step to get a land or a cantrip. You hope to repeat this till you can cast a lethal scapeshift.


The cards that cantrip while interacting with the opponent are
Cryptic command
Electrolyze
Remand
Repeal
Relic of progenitus
Twisted image (this card isn't very good in this deck)

All the other disruptive cantrips are too weak or too expensive. And you're already playing the best filtering in the format, serum visions, peer through depths,and telling time.

Repeal disrupts the opponent while digging you towards scapeshift and it doesn't cost you a card since it has the draw a card text on it. It also bounces problem permanents like blood moon, spellskite, leyline of sanctity. It's nice to have multiple outs to those cards especially since cryptic command is bad vs blood moon.

I hope that helps you see why people play repeal.

As for why there are different scapeshift lists with different cantrips, I wrote a post about it recently. I'm on my phone but I'll see if I can find it

Here
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/proven-modern/220244-rug-scapeshift?page=61#c1526

Quote from MTG-Fan »

Often times when you lose with this deck, or any control deck, it's because you are being impatient and trying to play it like a combo deck.

Remember, this is *NOT* a combo deck. It is a control deck first and foremost. The win conditions double as control tools (Mindslaver w/o lock, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine).

Your focus should always be on *surviving* and depleting your opponent's resources and then only going for the combo kill, or attacking with the fatty, when you know you have the game under control.

Also, don't underestimate Card Advantage. Control decks thrive on Card Advantage. Always try to create positive Card Advantage. Thirst for Knowledge is maybe the best card in this entire deck. Always try to land Thirst above all else early in the game. It creates card advantage for you in spades. Solemn Simulacrum also creates card advantage and dampens the opponent's tempo. Don't underestimate him either.

Don't fixate on assembling Tron in every game, either. This deck can win with nothing but Islands in play if it needs to. This goes hand-in-hand also with the notion that it is a big mistake to jam too-expensive win conditions in this deck. DO NOT stick Emrakul in here or something that costs more than 8 mana, ever. 6-7 mana is the sweet spot for your win conditions. And again, sometimes you don't fetch an Urza land with Map. Sometimes you need to get that Island, or that Edge.

Don't tap out constantly with this deck either. It's a control deck. Leave mana open during your opponent's turn, and try to do as much as you can at his EOT. Don't crack Maps until his EOT. The #1 play you should be angling for is playing Thirst for Knowledge at opponent's EOT.

This is great advice.

A couple of points I have found after playing the deck a bit:

Don't just sit on Mindslaver until you have the lock. Oftentimes just one Mindslaver activation can end the game or turn it to your favor, so use that thing as soon as you have an opening. When I first started playing I would never play Mindslaver until I had enough mana for the lock, and I lost countless games because of it.

I am going to reemphasize what MTG Fan said: If you have no blue mana and you are cracking a map, it is almost always best to get an Island. Obviously if you have an Angel and two Wurmcoils in hand, then yes go for Tron and slam some fatties, but this is a Control deck. Without getting Islands out, we are just a bad version of Gr Tron.

In matchups where you can slowly assemble Tron and they don't have maindeck tec edge effects, if you don't have two tron pieces in hand, map for Academy Ruins and keep putting Map on top to assemble Tron reliably.

Often times when you lose with this deck, or any control deck, it's because you are being impatient and trying to play it like a combo deck.

Remember, this is *NOT* a combo deck. It is a control deck first and foremost. The win conditions double as control tools (Mindslaver w/o lock, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine).

Your focus should always be on *surviving* and depleting your opponent's resources and then only going for the combo kill, or attacking with the fatty, when you know you have the game under control.

Also, don't underestimate Card Advantage. Control decks thrive on Card Advantage. Always try to create positive Card Advantage. Thirst for Knowledge is maybe the best card in this entire deck. Always try to land Thirst above all else early in the game. It creates card advantage for you in spades. Solemn Simulacrum also creates card advantage and dampens the opponent's tempo. Don't underestimate him either.

Don't fixate on assembling Tron in every game, either. This deck can win with nothing but Islands in play if it needs to. This goes hand-in-hand also with the notion that it is a big mistake to jam too-expensive win conditions in this deck. DO NOT stick Emrakul in here or something that costs more than 8 mana, ever. 6-7 mana is the sweet spot for your win conditions. And again, sometimes you don't fetch an Urza land with Map. Sometimes you need to get that Island, or that Edge.

Don't tap out constantly with this deck either. It's a control deck. Leave mana open during your opponent's turn, and try to do as much as you can at his EOT. Don't crack Maps until his EOT. The #1 play you should be angling for is playing Thirst for Knowledge at opponent's EOT.