Well, certainly we've plenty of options at 4CMC now. I'm not sure which one is the best though. We've Gideon's intervention which not only works as a nevermore, but is also great against non-permanent stuff like burn instants, grapeshot, lightning storm, etc but has the downside of not stopping planeswalkers like karn, or, well pretty much anything besides damage. And that's when ixalan's binding and/or cast out are better choices. The second nonboes with sup fields though.
So for that spot on the mana curve, I'd pick Gideon's intervention in a creature and/or combo decks like storm/ad nauseam/burn meta, and I'd use cast out/ixalan's binding on a midrange/tron/etc meta.
As for storage matrix, I'd really like to play that card on a totally different build including stuff like authority of the Consuls/blind obedience, war's toll and taxes. That would probably increase the efficiency against creature-based decks, so the sideboard should be directed to noncreature stuff and combo decks.
I've been travelling for almost a year now, and pretty much off-line since I don't have a laptop with me, and it's pretty much painful for me to write on the phone.
Only wanted to bring a couple cards I've been testing on my latest builds to discussion.
First a card I'm bringing mostly against stuff with countermagic is war's toll, since tapping all their lands at once not only makes them choose between playing sth or leaving mana open for counterspells, but also grants us that they'll only counter one of our spells if we play our stuff in different main phases.
Also, it has great synergy with taxes like ghostly prison or suppression fields. If ghostly priaon is on the bf, they basically gotta choose between attacking or casting something, unless is instant or flash stuff. Then if we've fields out, they won't be able to crack a fetchland+attack, or activate anything+attack on the same turn.
Then I was wondering which gy hate tech is best for us. ashes of the abhorrent, rest in peace, wheel of sun and moon, grafdigger's cage or whatever you use.
Personally, I never liked RIP because if I happen to draw my FOTD, the mistveil plains plan won't work, therefore, my weapon of choice has always been grafdigger's cage since it's the widest answer and the cheapest CMC wise. Ashes of the abhorrent seems playable as well, since it grants devotion and some lifegain if you're playing porphyry nodes for instance, or trying to win thru combat damage.
I'm still in love with overwhelming splendor as well, but I still didn't find a time in which it was better to play that over FOTD or usual core-stuff. I guess it gets better with something like night of souls' betrayal out, but otherwise it feels just unnecessary. I'm trying it on a curses deck though, and it certainly gets better there with [c]curse of misfortunes[\c] online.
I'd like to read what you think about cast out, storage matrix, idyllic tutor, and the aforementioned cards, and which secondary wincons you prefer and why.
Couple of points. I am one hundred percent sold on copy enchantment. Particularly instead of a second Greater Auramancy I've also started adding a single indestructibility that allows me to protect a form of the Dragon or anything else of that nature including in RM NC. Slightly more resilient to sweepers.
I can only think of really narrow situations in which getting indestructibility to the field is either better than greater auramancy or dovescape. Uncountereable enchantment sweepers aren't really a thing though,
Another interesting point was your suggestion to run a higher land count. I had started with 26 lands as any good control deck does, but I found myself removing a land at a time. This decks sweet spot is 3 lands. We can obtain a lock with that few. And I am concerned with a land base that is somewhat resilient to land destruction and disruption.
Well, I started at 24, then went up to 26 because I couldn't get to 7 lands to play EI, then went down to 25. But whatever works for you! I don't have much experience vs LD.
I also think that it's Entagling Bridge is the best lock available. I like it better than safety sphere It has great synergy with Monastery siege which enables me to keep my hand clear(...) My biggest concern with Ensnaring Bridge is that it has no coordination with any other win condition other than form of the Dragon. I can't ever seem to get out of my own way, whether I'm running luminarch Ascension , Sigil of the empty throne or Heliod, God of the Sun. I am desperately trying to find a second win con that does not interfere with the Bridge. I have literally been going through every card in the game trying to find something that fits here. Preferable something that is not useless on its own. I think I am stcuk with the God and have to just figure out how to avoid the bridge.
It's good, I wouldn't say better than safety sphere because it's pretty much situational. Sometimes you're willing to tax a wide board situation filled with 1/1 tokens and then the sphere is better. Sometimes you want to stop a singleton emrakul, and then bridge is better.
Nevermind Luminarch, sigil or Heliod. Try Assemble the legion! Draw, keep card in hand, attack, discard so they can't attack you, profit!
On that note I think it is preferable to run Monastery Siege rather than a dedicated spell that does nothing but recycle your discards.
Peace of mind has been on my 60's for a while because of bridge, probably gonna cut it the day I cut bridge from my deck. Monastery siege isn't really discard but card filtering, it doesn't really help for the bridge lock, other than eventually giving you something you can cast or a land, so you reduce your hand size by casting/dropping that.
@everyone Gideon's intervention looks like one potential toy for us. I'd play that over nevermore since it grants more flexibility. The only downside is the cost. What else would you cut for it? How many copies? I think 2 of them at least on our 75's won't hurt.
Sandwurm convergence is IMO mostly worse than Form of the dragon. 1. It only helps against flyers, which are the least in the current meta. 2.Less reliable wincon than FOTD, since tokens are vulnerable to removal. 3.Doesn't combo with phyrexian unlife which makes up our best lock in the deck. 4.Not possible to hardcast unless you're playing green or something. Pretty much what @Laredian said, heh.
I only got to play a couple matches in the last weeks. I remember beating naya burn 2-1 with no leyline at all in g1, which I lost, just beaters which got slowed down by ghostly prison, and then he burnt me for the rest. G2 I got double leyline out, and turn 2 chalice of the void at 1. He had no creatures out yet, so he probably saw his goblin guides and friends rot in his hand. Then greater auramancy, runed halo naming eidolon of the great revel, monastery siege, and after a couple turns EI+FOTD FTW. Game 3 no turn 0 leyline, got chalice of the void online on turn 2 as well, so most of his burn became useless. Stopped a goblin guide with oblivion ring, runed halo'ed his eidolon (amazing he found that card on every game), then auramancy, ghostly prison, and EI+FOTD again. GG, WP.
Then I remember playing against a control build, grixis control to be precise. Lost 2-0 against that. Just remember spell snare and spell pierce cost 1 CMC, so you probably have to cast your relevant stuff after your opponent has casted one or a couple of those, or after he's tapped out.
Also, it sucks when your seventh land for EI is an untapped boseiju, who shelters all and you're at 2 or less life. More defense grid for me, less boseiju. haha.
Current standard lacks turbo and cheap fog but I thought modern turbo fog was awesome, but so were all of the other decks so as I tweaked my fog deck it became more pillow fort and then pillow fort leads to Enduring ideal.
I come from turbo fog as well, modern actually. It's better than Enduring Ideal against combat based decks, but it struggles against decks which can attack from other angles. It's a blast to play that though, I even rewrote/revamped the whole primer, which TBH haven't updated since a long time as I haven't been toying with that deck recently.
I really need to feel like I am brewing something.
I know that feel bro, never gonna see me playing Jund.
Suppression Field is such an under valued star. I almost never regret that being my first play. I like to pack it on because it also slows down my most dreaded card Engineered explosives. F'ing hate that card. PW's sac lands. Everything worth doing seems to have an activation cost. And none of it would be worth it at +2, +4, +10 (yea +10, i'll get to that).
I always stood for this card. Screws a plethora of things, gains us time to cast EI, gives us white devotion for Nykthos, mistveil plains and heliod, god of the sun love it as well, and it only costs 2 CMC. If you have a reason for not playing 4 copies, it must be a really good one.
Porphyry Nodes I can't figure out how people cut them. I know they can be played around but how is that much different then a W silence. As an early play against many decks it munches mana dorks. Is "Bolt the Bird" no longer a thing. I always think of it as a little pac man munching away and sure they play dorks to be the fodder to save the real threats but if they are playing dorks they are not paying taxes.
Great early play against eldrazi.
I can say that of 2 occasions I had opponents think the interaction between the Nodes and Heliod, God of the Sun was broken.
Yeah, porphyry nodes is TBH something I haven't toyed around with enough probably. IMO having a 1 for 1 is already good, otherwise people wouldn't be playing path to exile or fatal push. The only issue is intrinsec to nodes itself. As good as it is removing a creature a turn, or a single creature at least, we don't get to choose which one to kill. That sometimes is enough, but other times means we're killing a mana dork, but letting them keep their <insert biggie here>. I'd struggle to say what is overall better, if the Nodes+heliod lock, or packing a couple ensnaring bridges as I do for instance, or just having some conventional removal instead. I believe it's pretty much situational and the results may vary with the most subtle changes. E.G. if the opponent has a death's shadow and a tarmogoyf out, porphyry nodes will kill them in 2 turns if nothing else is played, ensnaring bridge will stop them from attacking if we don't have much cards in hand, and conventional removal will kill only one of them. Now, that's a very simple situation and we're discussing only 5 cards there, we're not even mentioning life points, removal, other enchantments, and we're not even discussing how big are those creatures.
And I didn't mention Heliod yet!
So, sometimes it's better to pack nodes, sometimes other stuff like bridge or conventional, (mostly) instant speed, stuff. It depends on your meta, your taste, your overall strategy and <sadly> your luck at times.
Personally, I left nodes aside because of assemble the legion, but EI list including the Heliod+nodes lock are popular as well.
Which leads to:
Heliod, God of the Sun How does this get cut. Right now in standard Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is probably the best card. I have faced it in modern. This is so much better. Ours actually blocks and with Greater Auramancy is an indestructible, shrouded creature. Isn't that broken by definition? I don't really care about producing dudes, just man the battlements and charge across an empty battlefield (thanks Porphyry Nodes).
This isn't standard, Gideon doesn't see much play here in modern, in fact, if you search it on mtggoldfish for instance there's not a single modern deck using that card. That said, Heliod's main downside isn't that it non-boes with suppression field, but that it does nothing without devotion (he, I think I finally understood religion, there aren't gods without devotion). That said, yes, he is a really good blocker given its indestructibility, sinergises greatly with nodes, and a legit wincon. He's good if you're in a favourable board state.
Greater Auramancy, I don't see how that is not on every list. I personally don't think I need the 2 of hard lock. I consider it an ablative shield to cause the opponent to sacrifice resources and tempo to remove an enchantment that is not effecting him in order to hopefully have the resources and tempo to remove the enchantment that is. I only need 1 any way because of my last card.
-Checked, 1 or 2 ought to be played. I play 2 copies not only for the lock, but to have more 2 CMC drops, which is relevant for 1-devotion 2-playing around counterspells 3- filling the mana curve. But one copy is good as well for tempo reasons.
Copy Enchantment I am clearly alone in thinking this is the second best card in the deck. Because what ever card is working for you, this is a second copy. This is the second Greater Auramancy or Sphere of Safety. Its the perfect card at the perfect time mid game. If you really need another Ghostly prison not another Suppression field or vice versa. Named the wrong card with Runed Halo, get it right the second time. Its the ultimate batman utility belt in our deck. So I can't figure why I am the only one running it. Is it just my inexperience? Maybe 2 is not the right number but how is 0 the right number in this deck. I even tutored one up to double my Form of the Dragon fun and close the game a turn earlier.
I probably need to test this more. I've always feared having nothing relevant to copy. Also, it doesn't grant devotion.
I know a lot of people are using Path to exile. I think it is great turn 2 - 5 but not really needed as much after. Really just want it for infect and the like. I decided to go with the idea that I can't be optimal at everything so I am just trying to do the thing I do well, as well as I can do it.
Yup, relevant against really aggro decks like infect, but otherwise it has a bad sinergy with our taxes. If I wanted to pack some removal of the kind, I'd go for blessed alliance since it doesn't target at first. Remember infect plays stuff like vines of vastwood, apostle's blessing and blossoming defense for precisely path to exile-like removal (and blockers, and etceteras)
I only used stasis snare for stopping emrakul or the likes and instant speed. I believe O-Ring and D-Sphere are better choices than that since they can target more things. If you're struggling with early game creatures though, you can go with journey to nowhere where[/card] as well.
I hope people are still involved with this deck because I am on this pony for the long haul.
Well, as long as I'm interested in MTG, this will probably be my deck of choice. I Just like this sort of strategy.
As for your list, I'm really willing to try it as whole, doing some slight modifications.
1) cut fetchlands for scrylands because of suppression fields
2) cut 2 islands for more scrylands (scry is relevant for this deck since we lack deck manipulation, tutors, draw or else apart from monastery siege)
3) Cut oblivion ring, go to 25 lands with one more hallowed fountain.
4) I'd change the sb as well, but that depends on your meta.
5) 1 copy enchantment out, 1 greater auramancy in.
6) ???
7) Profit
So, some gut top8'ed an IQ. Now, before anything, consider that this sort of events typically doesn't involve necesarilly Pro players or tier decks.
I'm not trying to discredit the pilot or the build here, I'm rather telling you to read these results carefully.
IMO, and trying to answer some earlier comments as well, a full set of Suppression fields is a must for this deck. That said, anything that has an activated ability is a nonbo for the deck. That includes lands (fetch, storage and even mistveil plains and ghost quarter), planeswalkers, stuff like Heliod, peace of mind and a long etc. Unfortunately we can't afford to miss cards like mistveil plains or GQ, but we must avoid taxing ourselves as much as we can.
Secondly, I believe we'd benefit a lot from watching some gameplays of our own builds. So I encourage you to play a couple games on yer computers anywhere (xmage, cockatrice, octgn or MTGO if you've got the money), record them and upload the whole thing to the internet.
I'm a tad outdated since I haven't been playing anything but pauper and Magic Duels for the last months. But now, having a better internet connection as well as more spare time, I'll try to do so.
My latter version is this one . This isn't written in stone at all (if that's anyhow achievable anyway), but the last version I've toyed around with. Some changes will be probably made, being 1)Ensnaring Bridge, 9)peace of mind, and probably (although it will deeply hurt my heart) 972)assemble the legion (altough I'm not in love with the idea of running just 1 wincon). Those cards might find the way outta my deck, or go to sb.
On the other hand, Dovescape is a card I NEED somewhere in my 75's as it helps a ton against a variety of decks (mostly control, but BGx, Tron and etceteras as well). So I'm not cutting it at all, rather moving it back and forth between the mb and sb.
I'm willing to include some cheap removal for faster decks, but I'm not certain of what to choose and what to cut for that. Blessed Alliance caught my eye as lifegain might be relevant, as well as non-targeted removal. Porphyry nodes is a card I always wanted to include. A 1 for 1 is good if you're dealing with a tarmogoyf for instance, the fact it can go bigger than that certainly is a blast, and is non-targeted which is actually great against some decks, but as it has been said before, it's slow and unreliable at times since you don't choose what to destroy.
I've never considered path to exile given its intrinsec anti-tax nature, but it doesn't get any better than that when we talk about white removal.
And finally a card that I believe has plenty of potential anywhere in our 75's is chalice of the void. Casting it for 2, means stopping a plethora of stuff that very often we struggle with. Think of glistener elf, mana dorks, lightning bolt and his burn friends, death's shadow, thoughtseize and friends, and even other -probably- less relevant stuff like serum visions, ad nauseam's angel's grace, etc. And that only targeting 1 CMC. Now, go and play another copy at 2 CMC, ???, PROFIT!
I have to say, I saw someone's list in this thread, packing 4x chalices and I fell in love for the idea.
Anyway, my sb will be as wide as possible since xmage meta shifts constantly. Sometimes you face tier decks, sometimes janky kitchen table stuff. So, except for bribery, which I'll probably cut OR at least splice with confiscate, SB choices intend to fix our worst matchups while being versatile.
As usual, any opinions, advices, threats, blackmails, money are encouraged.
Cheers.
SST.
That is why I run a lot of path to exile and leave in the suppression fields. Wrath effects are pretty good as well
Wrath effects are certainly good against a good number of decks, as for Path to exile I have my doubts since it ramps our opponent, which is pretty much anti-sinergystic with our tax deck theme. Suppression field is a card I love as much as I hate sometimes. It's a really wide hate card which can buy us a lot of time and protect us from repeateable/nearly combo stuff like lightning storm, aristocrats or thopter sword for instance, but it cripples our card pool/choices probably as much.
Forgot to mention some relevant fast decks such as infect and death's shadow zoo, and some other combo decks such as storm for instance have been nerfed down thanks to the banning of gitaxian probe. Golgari grave-troll has been banned as well, but I'm reluctant if whether it will affect dredge's consistency or not, since dredge became tier 1 stuff after the release of prized amalgam and cathartic reunion. Golgari thug can fill the same role almost as well as GGT when it comes to dredge in my opinion.
Oh, and on the magical christmasland/nonsense section, I just saw some old comment on this thread talking about the enchanted evening+sphere of safety sinergy for massive taxing. Also you can add a spoonful of aura of silence to the mix for even more taxing and for making all their stuff potential targets.
Mechanized Production totally arises my inner Johnny, but I don't think is competitive here. It probably needs a more artifact focused enviroment, probably getting 8 clues, or micosynth lattice your islands FTW.
I used to pack a couple paraselenes on an esper mill list I was testing. It helped a ton aggainst bogles for instance (in case I didn't find my E-Bridge on time), but it was mostly used for control enchantments such as leyline of sanctity, blood moon, etc.
But I know that feel bro :flame:, sadly we can't pack hate for everything nor nevermore 100 cards at once.
Temples: Depends on the mana requirements of your build, but I'd never take the number of copies over 6 as you'll be often needing that extra untapped land.
Greater Auramancy: Agreed, 1 copy doesn't grant you anything. If it was privileged postion instead, it could work. Otherwise you're just "taxing" their removal as you're making them spend it on your GA first, and then what they really wanted to get rid of.
Luminarch Ascension: True that, but still really bad synergy with Suppression Field. Post-EI, it won't matter as your lands won't have much to do either way.
Path to exile: Yup, you could try a fog, board sweeper, blocker, or even counterspell in that place if you're not willing to give 'em another land, or if you care about your taxing. See what you're afraid of, then find another way there. Maybe oust or dismember?
Monastery siege: Man, I love that card, really flexible stuff, but I haven't gotten rid of Peace of Mind yet because I play Ensnaring Bridge and sometimes I need a way to get rid of my hand to make it work and eventually gain some life.
My best Anti-sideboard/anti-combo tech was Nevermore. For instance, I remember infect players quitting to it after Runed Haloing their beaters, and then Nevermoring their Back To Nature/nature's claim, or giving Scapeshift a really bad time by doing the same to cryptic command, and then the namesake card for the win.
Really fun stuff, I'm certainly including it on my new build.
Still, as usual I don't have a "proper" meta as I only play casually on Xmage/Cockatrice, so my SB shifts constantly.
BTW, Back to nature is sorta rare to found, indeed, if you analize the MTGgoldfish meta there's only 1 deck running it.
When choosing Nevermore targets, I mostly check on the most popular sb choices there beforehand.
You guys still there?
It seems someone TOP8'ed an IQ, and the guy from MTGgoldfish shared the deck tech.
76 cards seem a tad odd though. As well as 2x temple of triumph and luminarch ascension as a wincon.
This is my initial build, needs testing/tweaking as well.
Probably going against the namesake of the deck, I've decided to cut all owls for more consistency on draw engines/bounce spells.
Jeskai build including silence, removal is currently on the pipeline, but I'm leaning towards this one first because of the blood moon sb.
AS for your build @herkamurjones, Kami of the crescent moon is really soft to removal, sadly it's the only draw engine we have at 2 CMC other than howling mine, but I'd still play Dictate of Kruphix over it as it's more resilient to removal and counterspells as it can be casted EOT. Tibalt, the fiend-blooded isn't bolt-proof, why not Jace Beleren instead?. Vendillion Clique seems to had bad sinergy with this kind of deck, since we want them to have as much cards as possible in hands.
I don't get the point of running Simian Spirit Guide, I mean, I know pulling off mana out of nowhere is cool, but not necessary at all.
Mostly runeflare trap is better than sudden impact, requiring you 2 mana engines for its alternate mana cost. Against control for instance, is kinda hard to save 4 mana, but paying only R to deal 7/8 to their face out of nowhere is kinda cool.
Where's your bounce stuff by the way? You can make them draw a lot of cards, but then you have no way to defend yourself other than critters and remand.
So for that spot on the mana curve, I'd pick Gideon's intervention in a creature and/or combo decks like storm/ad nauseam/burn meta, and I'd use cast out/ixalan's binding on a midrange/tron/etc meta.
As for storage matrix, I'd really like to play that card on a totally different build including stuff like authority of the Consuls/blind obedience, war's toll and taxes. That would probably increase the efficiency against creature-based decks, so the sideboard should be directed to noncreature stuff and combo decks.
Cheers.
Sst
Only wanted to bring a couple cards I've been testing on my latest builds to discussion.
First a card I'm bringing mostly against stuff with countermagic is war's toll, since tapping all their lands at once not only makes them choose between playing sth or leaving mana open for counterspells, but also grants us that they'll only counter one of our spells if we play our stuff in different main phases.
Also, it has great synergy with taxes like ghostly prison or suppression fields. If ghostly priaon is on the bf, they basically gotta choose between attacking or casting something, unless is instant or flash stuff. Then if we've fields out, they won't be able to crack a fetchland+attack, or activate anything+attack on the same turn.
Then I was wondering which gy hate tech is best for us. ashes of the abhorrent, rest in peace, wheel of sun and moon, grafdigger's cage or whatever you use.
Personally, I never liked RIP because if I happen to draw my FOTD, the mistveil plains plan won't work, therefore, my weapon of choice has always been grafdigger's cage since it's the widest answer and the cheapest CMC wise. Ashes of the abhorrent seems playable as well, since it grants devotion and some lifegain if you're playing porphyry nodes for instance, or trying to win thru combat damage.
I'm still in love with overwhelming splendor as well, but I still didn't find a time in which it was better to play that over FOTD or usual core-stuff. I guess it gets better with something like night of souls' betrayal out, but otherwise it feels just unnecessary. I'm trying it on a curses deck though, and it certainly gets better there with [c]curse of misfortunes[\c] online.
I'd like to read what you think about cast out, storage matrix, idyllic tutor, and the aforementioned cards, and which secondary wincons you prefer and why.
Cheers.
Sst.
I can only think of really narrow situations in which getting indestructibility to the field is either better than greater auramancy or dovescape. Uncountereable enchantment sweepers aren't really a thing though,
Well, I started at 24, then went up to 26 because I couldn't get to 7 lands to play EI, then went down to 25. But whatever works for you! I don't have much experience vs LD.
It's good, I wouldn't say better than safety sphere because it's pretty much situational. Sometimes you're willing to tax a wide board situation filled with 1/1 tokens and then the sphere is better. Sometimes you want to stop a singleton emrakul, and then bridge is better.
Nevermind Luminarch, sigil or Heliod. Try Assemble the legion! Draw, keep card in hand, attack, discard so they can't attack you, profit!
Peace of mind has been on my 60's for a while because of bridge, probably gonna cut it the day I cut bridge from my deck. Monastery siege isn't really discard but card filtering, it doesn't really help for the bridge lock, other than eventually giving you something you can cast or a land, so you reduce your hand size by casting/dropping that.
@everyone
Gideon's intervention looks like one potential toy for us. I'd play that over nevermore since it grants more flexibility. The only downside is the cost. What else would you cut for it? How many copies? I think 2 of them at least on our 75's won't hurt.
Sandwurm convergence is IMO mostly worse than Form of the dragon. 1. It only helps against flyers, which are the least in the current meta. 2.Less reliable wincon than FOTD, since tokens are vulnerable to removal. 3.Doesn't combo with phyrexian unlife which makes up our best lock in the deck. 4.Not possible to hardcast unless you're playing green or something. Pretty much what @Laredian said, heh.
I only got to play a couple matches in the last weeks. I remember beating naya burn 2-1 with no leyline at all in g1, which I lost, just beaters which got slowed down by ghostly prison, and then he burnt me for the rest. G2 I got double leyline out, and turn 2 chalice of the void at 1. He had no creatures out yet, so he probably saw his goblin guides and friends rot in his hand. Then greater auramancy, runed halo naming eidolon of the great revel, monastery siege, and after a couple turns EI+FOTD FTW. Game 3 no turn 0 leyline, got chalice of the void online on turn 2 as well, so most of his burn became useless. Stopped a goblin guide with oblivion ring, runed halo'ed his eidolon (amazing he found that card on every game), then auramancy, ghostly prison, and EI+FOTD again. GG, WP.
Then I remember playing against a control build, grixis control to be precise. Lost 2-0 against that. Just remember spell snare and spell pierce cost 1 CMC, so you probably have to cast your relevant stuff after your opponent has casted one or a couple of those, or after he's tapped out.
Also, it sucks when your seventh land for EI is an untapped boseiju, who shelters all and you're at 2 or less life. More defense grid for me, less boseiju. haha.
cheers. SST.
I come from turbo fog as well, modern actually. It's better than Enduring Ideal against combat based decks, but it struggles against decks which can attack from other angles. It's a blast to play that though, I even rewrote/revamped the whole primer, which TBH haven't updated since a long time as I haven't been toying with that deck recently.
I know that feel bro, never gonna see me playing Jund.
I always stood for this card. Screws a plethora of things, gains us time to cast EI, gives us white devotion for Nykthos, mistveil plains and heliod, god of the sun love it as well, and it only costs 2 CMC. If you have a reason for not playing 4 copies, it must be a really good one.
Yeah, porphyry nodes is TBH something I haven't toyed around with enough probably. IMO having a 1 for 1 is already good, otherwise people wouldn't be playing path to exile or fatal push. The only issue is intrinsec to nodes itself. As good as it is removing a creature a turn, or a single creature at least, we don't get to choose which one to kill. That sometimes is enough, but other times means we're killing a mana dork, but letting them keep their <insert biggie here>. I'd struggle to say what is overall better, if the Nodes+heliod lock, or packing a couple ensnaring bridges as I do for instance, or just having some conventional removal instead. I believe it's pretty much situational and the results may vary with the most subtle changes. E.G. if the opponent has a death's shadow and a tarmogoyf out, porphyry nodes will kill them in 2 turns if nothing else is played, ensnaring bridge will stop them from attacking if we don't have much cards in hand, and conventional removal will kill only one of them. Now, that's a very simple situation and we're discussing only 5 cards there, we're not even mentioning life points, removal, other enchantments, and we're not even discussing how big are those creatures.
And I didn't mention Heliod yet!
So, sometimes it's better to pack nodes, sometimes other stuff like bridge or conventional, (mostly) instant speed, stuff. It depends on your meta, your taste, your overall strategy and <sadly> your luck at times.
Personally, I left nodes aside because of assemble the legion, but EI list including the Heliod+nodes lock are popular as well.
Which leads to:
This isn't standard, Gideon doesn't see much play here in modern, in fact, if you search it on mtggoldfish for instance there's not a single modern deck using that card. That said, Heliod's main downside isn't that it non-boes with suppression field, but that it does nothing without devotion (he, I think I finally understood religion, there aren't gods without devotion). That said, yes, he is a really good blocker given its indestructibility, sinergises greatly with nodes, and a legit wincon. He's good if you're in a favourable board state.
-Checked, 1 or 2 ought to be played. I play 2 copies not only for the lock, but to have more 2 CMC drops, which is relevant for 1-devotion 2-playing around counterspells 3- filling the mana curve. But one copy is good as well for tempo reasons.
I probably need to test this more. I've always feared having nothing relevant to copy. Also, it doesn't grant devotion.
Yup, relevant against really aggro decks like infect, but otherwise it has a bad sinergy with our taxes. If I wanted to pack some removal of the kind, I'd go for blessed alliance since it doesn't target at first. Remember infect plays stuff like vines of vastwood, apostle's blessing and blossoming defense for precisely path to exile-like removal (and blockers, and etceteras)
I only used stasis snare for stopping emrakul or the likes and instant speed. I believe O-Ring and D-Sphere are better choices than that since they can target more things. If you're struggling with early game creatures though, you can go with journey to nowhere where[/card] as well.
Well, as long as I'm interested in MTG, this will probably be my deck of choice. I Just like this sort of strategy.
As for your list, I'm really willing to try it as whole, doing some slight modifications.
1) cut fetchlands for scrylands because of suppression fields
2) cut 2 islands for more scrylands (scry is relevant for this deck since we lack deck manipulation, tutors, draw or else apart from monastery siege)
3) Cut oblivion ring, go to 25 lands with one more hallowed fountain.
4) I'd change the sb as well, but that depends on your meta.
5) 1 copy enchantment out, 1 greater auramancy in.
6) ???
7) Profit
Otherwise is an upgraded plains as it can fetch you a mistveil plains or a shockland (I do play some number of hallowed fountain) for instance when playing multiple copies or when ghost quartering it.
So, if you're into a Blood Moon meta, then play as much plains as you can, otherwise go with 4x flagstones.
Sorry for the double post.
Cheers.
SST.
I'm not trying to discredit the pilot or the build here, I'm rather telling you to read these results carefully.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-enduring-ideal-34762#online
IMO, and trying to answer some earlier comments as well, a full set of Suppression fields is a must for this deck. That said, anything that has an activated ability is a nonbo for the deck. That includes lands (fetch, storage and even mistveil plains and ghost quarter), planeswalkers, stuff like Heliod, peace of mind and a long etc. Unfortunately we can't afford to miss cards like mistveil plains or GQ, but we must avoid taxing ourselves as much as we can.
Secondly, I believe we'd benefit a lot from watching some gameplays of our own builds. So I encourage you to play a couple games on yer computers anywhere (xmage, cockatrice, octgn or MTGO if you've got the money), record them and upload the whole thing to the internet.
I'm a tad outdated since I haven't been playing anything but pauper and Magic Duels for the last months. But now, having a better internet connection as well as more spare time, I'll try to do so.
My latter version is this one . This isn't written in stone at all (if that's anyhow achievable anyway), but the last version I've toyed around with. Some changes will be probably made, being 1)Ensnaring Bridge, 9)peace of mind, and probably (although it will deeply hurt my heart) 972)assemble the legion (altough I'm not in love with the idea of running just 1 wincon). Those cards might find the way outta my deck, or go to sb.
On the other hand, Dovescape is a card I NEED somewhere in my 75's as it helps a ton against a variety of decks (mostly control, but BGx, Tron and etceteras as well). So I'm not cutting it at all, rather moving it back and forth between the mb and sb.
I'm willing to include some cheap removal for faster decks, but I'm not certain of what to choose and what to cut for that.
Blessed Alliance caught my eye as lifegain might be relevant, as well as non-targeted removal.
Porphyry nodes is a card I always wanted to include. A 1 for 1 is good if you're dealing with a tarmogoyf for instance, the fact it can go bigger than that certainly is a blast, and is non-targeted which is actually great against some decks, but as it has been said before, it's slow and unreliable at times since you don't choose what to destroy.
I've never considered path to exile given its intrinsec anti-tax nature, but it doesn't get any better than that when we talk about white removal.
And finally a card that I believe has plenty of potential anywhere in our 75's is chalice of the void. Casting it for 2, means stopping a plethora of stuff that very often we struggle with. Think of glistener elf, mana dorks, lightning bolt and his burn friends, death's shadow, thoughtseize and friends, and even other -probably- less relevant stuff like serum visions, ad nauseam's angel's grace, etc. And that only targeting 1 CMC. Now, go and play another copy at 2 CMC, ???, PROFIT!
I have to say, I saw someone's list in this thread, packing 4x chalices and I fell in love for the idea.
Anyway, my sb will be as wide as possible since xmage meta shifts constantly. Sometimes you face tier decks, sometimes janky kitchen table stuff. So, except for bribery, which I'll probably cut OR at least splice with confiscate, SB choices intend to fix our worst matchups while being versatile.
As usual, any opinions, advices, threats, blackmails, money are encouraged.
Cheers.
SST.
Wrath effects are certainly good against a good number of decks, as for Path to exile I have my doubts since it ramps our opponent, which is pretty much anti-sinergystic with our tax deck theme. Suppression field is a card I love as much as I hate sometimes. It's a really wide hate card which can buy us a lot of time and protect us from repeateable/nearly combo stuff like lightning storm, aristocrats or thopter sword for instance, but it cripples our card pool/choices probably as much.
Well, as for lategame my ensnaring bridges + peace of mind can stop anything, actually Form of the dragon already does that, just watch out for reclamation sage. Board wipers work as well, ezuri, renegade leader being the only problematic card for that (unless you run wrath of god). Detention sphere, porphyry nodes and some other stuff like that can give you a hand as well.
Post-sideboard, it gets a tad trickier/more complex since they're certainly bringing all their hate, that can include stuff like aven mindcensor which cripples our Enduring Ideal triggers, fracturing gust, and even more reclamation sages for instance. So then it's up to your sb tech. I remember some guy brought a list with open the vaults as sideboard tech for enchantment hate, which he would "feed" with peace of mind as well. I'm truly willing to try that tech, given that monastery siege helps me fill that role too.
@BeCurieUs, forgot to mention Aura Of Silence as an answer to Blood moon!
Edit: adding stuff to avoid double-posting
Forgot to mention some relevant fast decks such as infect and death's shadow zoo, and some other combo decks such as storm for instance have been nerfed down thanks to the banning of gitaxian probe. Golgari grave-troll has been banned as well, but I'm reluctant if whether it will affect dredge's consistency or not, since dredge became tier 1 stuff after the release of prized amalgam and cathartic reunion. Golgari thug can fill the same role almost as well as GGT when it comes to dredge in my opinion.
Also I was wondering about how much useful could chalice of the void be as sideboard tech. I actually have never considered it for the deck yet. At 1 it seems to stop a plethora of stuff we sometimes struggle with: burn, infect+pump spells, spell pierce/spell snare, thoughtseize and friends, ad nauseam's angel's grace/spoils of the vault and even stuff like serum visions, beaters like wild nacatl, death's shadow, monastery swiftspear, goblin guide, and an inmense etcetera if you cast it on some other CMC!
Has anyone tried it yet?
Oh, and on the magical christmasland/nonsense section, I just saw some old comment on this thread talking about the enchanted evening+sphere of safety sinergy for massive taxing. Also you can add a spoonful of aura of silence to the mix for even more taxing and for making all their stuff potential targets.
Yup, I wrote that and smiled to myself for founding out that card, then remembered S-Fields is a 4-of in my list and went to a corner to cry.
Mechanized Production totally arises my inner Johnny, but I don't think is competitive here. It probably needs a more artifact focused enviroment, probably getting 8 clues, or micosynth lattice your islands FTW.
I was thinking some way of getting alternative hard locks other than dovescape for instance.
Like going with rule of law/curse of exhaustion + lunar force + starfield of nyx/wheel of sun and moon/mistveil plains. Or even jankier stuff like enchanted evening+starfield of nyx which would equal an armageddon. Or just adding the exquisite blood+sanguine bond combo to win on the spot (potential triggers could be nyx-fleece ram, form of the dragon, peace of mind, or just attackers).
Just trying to reset my mindset, dismantle what's been done and start all over with some brand new stuff. Do you think any of those could work?
Edit: Oh, and some stuff I found which could be a nevermore substitute is declaration of naught. What'cha think about that one? Maybe telepathy/gitaxian probe can give us a hand with those.
Against Soul Sisters, try killing soul warden/soul's attendant at sight. If you've Form of the dragon out, then it gets easier. Mistveil plains should help you avoid the auto-mill.
I used to pack a couple paraselenes on an esper mill list I was testing. It helped a ton aggainst bogles for instance (in case I didn't find my E-Bridge on time), but it was mostly used for control enchantments such as leyline of sanctity, blood moon, etc.
But I know that feel bro :flame:, sadly we can't pack hate for everything nor nevermore 100 cards at once.
Temples: Depends on the mana requirements of your build, but I'd never take the number of copies over 6 as you'll be often needing that extra untapped land.
Greater Auramancy: Agreed, 1 copy doesn't grant you anything. If it was privileged postion instead, it could work. Otherwise you're just "taxing" their removal as you're making them spend it on your GA first, and then what they really wanted to get rid of.
Luminarch Ascension: True that, but still really bad synergy with Suppression Field. Post-EI, it won't matter as your lands won't have much to do either way.
Path to exile: Yup, you could try a fog, board sweeper, blocker, or even counterspell in that place if you're not willing to give 'em another land, or if you care about your taxing. See what you're afraid of, then find another way there. Maybe oust or dismember?
Monastery siege: Man, I love that card, really flexible stuff, but I haven't gotten rid of Peace of Mind yet because I play Ensnaring Bridge and sometimes I need a way to get rid of my hand to make it work and eventually gain some life.
My best Anti-sideboard/anti-combo tech was Nevermore. For instance, I remember infect players quitting to it after Runed Haloing their beaters, and then Nevermoring their Back To Nature/nature's claim, or giving Scapeshift a really bad time by doing the same to cryptic command, and then the namesake card for the win.
Really fun stuff, I'm certainly including it on my new build.
Still, as usual I don't have a "proper" meta as I only play casually on Xmage/Cockatrice, so my SB shifts constantly.
BTW, Back to nature is sorta rare to found, indeed, if you analize the MTGgoldfish meta there's only 1 deck running it.
When choosing Nevermore targets, I mostly check on the most popular sb choices there beforehand.
Oh, and Supreme Verdict helps a ton against Elves
Cheers.
SST.
You guys still there?
It seems someone TOP8'ed an IQ, and the guy from MTGgoldfish shared the deck tech.
76 cards seem a tad odd though. As well as 2x temple of triumph and luminarch ascension as a wincon.
Thoughts?
Edit: Typo.
I haven't found anything exciting to be honest.
This is my initial build, needs testing/tweaking as well.
Probably going against the namesake of the deck, I've decided to cut all owls for more consistency on draw engines/bounce spells.
Jeskai build including silence, removal is currently on the pipeline, but I'm leaning towards this one first because of the blood moon sb.
3x Cryptic Command
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Dictate of Kruphix
2x Exhaustion
4x Fevered Visions
4x Howling Mine
8x Island
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Remand
4x Runeflare Trap
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Temple Bell
2x Unsubstantiate
2x Vapor Snag
1x Wandering Fumarole
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Blood Moon
3x Dispel
2x Hurkyl's Recall
3x Negate
2x Spellskite
AS for your build @herkamurjones, Kami of the crescent moon is really soft to removal, sadly it's the only draw engine we have at 2 CMC other than howling mine, but I'd still play Dictate of Kruphix over it as it's more resilient to removal and counterspells as it can be casted EOT. Tibalt, the fiend-blooded isn't bolt-proof, why not Jace Beleren instead?.
Vendillion Clique seems to had bad sinergy with this kind of deck, since we want them to have as much cards as possible in hands.
I don't get the point of running Simian Spirit Guide, I mean, I know pulling off mana out of nowhere is cool, but not necessary at all.
Mostly runeflare trap is better than sudden impact, requiring you 2 mana engines for its alternate mana cost. Against control for instance, is kinda hard to save 4 mana, but paying only R to deal 7/8 to their face out of nowhere is kinda cool.
Where's your bounce stuff by the way? You can make them draw a lot of cards, but then you have no way to defend yourself other than critters and remand.
Cerebral vortex is another option following the line of tibalt, master the way and molten psyche.
Thing in the Ice still might worth a try here as well.
Oh, and I still can't decide which board sweeper to pack. AETherize, Evacuation, Cyclonic Rift, Whelming wave, engulf the shore, crush of tentacles. Which one (or two) would you pick and why?
Cheers.
SST.