Eh what exactly are emrakul decks lately though? Breach is at all time low, jund is already good, living end and eldrazi tron are also extinct
Hornet queen is insane in so many matches it's been borderline md-able in some metagames, just not sure his logic on it
Has anyone used qasali over rec sage as well? I see more lists with torper orb for humans lately and I'm sure many of them realize the cross application to amulet
I played it at the weekly win a box at my lgs. Needless to say I did won the box. But that's fnm, might takeit to the next modern scg
I'm a bit confused on sigarda though, I think I'm going to move a gq main and cut the 3rd peirce for hornet queen and either obaloth or dromoka or maybe bskull is good again? Not sure but I've thought sigarda was always one of the weakest alt win cons
I've been a big fan of lingering souls for gds/h1.
Gds has too much interaction to rely on comboing, I enjoy playing the twin approach of keeping enough artifacts in play that they have to respect it but they have enough stub/creject that you'll never be able to force throughthe kci
Whir also shines as you can whir out the grid or coil while their gurmog is on the stack so stub is just a force spike
Baubles allow you to grind vs discard so much better and provide you lot more information about your opp's hand as well as the top of your own deck. Their purpose mid combo is no different than drawing extra opals or ee.
If you're going for t3 wins you aren't awarded the luxury of sandbagging your land drop, it is something I learned very early so I don't think utility lands are as a valuable as having a 5 color manabase that can surprise bmoon post board
Whir is more powerful in kci than lantern, we don't need "hardlocks" since we only need to disrupt the opp enough to open the door for our combo, we only need 1 bridge to have 5.
I'm sure after this weekend the parity will tilt even further towards rg and hurt all variants of kci quite a bit, if there's as many articles about the deck as i expect I'm probably going back to amulet for the foreseeable future
Edit:
Yeah kanister has been playing kci for a while, I know a buddy just lost to him on it online in the challenge yesterday as well, unsure if he's still whirring or on the nass build, he was also the first to run pentad md and ugin sb
I'm not sure why people feel the RG build has a consistency or speed advantage, it plays less 0s and the fizzle rate is really high since you don't have an instant win button in whir that you're drawing to. Every time I've played it, it felt a lot like the recent CFB videos, you start churning the wheels, fizzle, and risk getting completely blown out as yo pass. The only advantage I can see is Mindstone so I tried out a couple in the whir build, they were OK since it enabled turn 3 a little easier but they were so bad to draw mid-combo.
I fail to see exactly why RG is preferred other than it's simplicity?
Edit:
Also the nomenclature attributes it to Nass due to his success ofc
I love bauble, it's a really versatile card:
1. Great vs discard, you sandandbag cards in hand until you have the sufficient 4 mana to go off and expose as few resources to inq/seize
2. Interaction between trawler and stars vs mardu/gbx/other interactive decks, it resultsin just grinding them out of cards
3. Mid combo if you know hitting a land/non land is all you need to go off you can see your next card
4. Whir builds are obviously a lot more interactive than nass build, knowing when to "go for it" or when to whir defensively takes a lot of finesse and it's why whir is far better but far harder to play, bauble can give us clues about the opp hand to make better decisions
5. Enables t1 mod opal more often
I see a lot of people run 3 whir, even somein my testing group. I think it's very wrong, the card is absolutely insane and I think if you died due to 2 whir in hand it's because of the other 56 cards or a decision the pilot made
have you thought about using replicator yet? he is a freaking house. Grats on the finish
No, it's same as resevoir/banefire/emrakul/etc... they're all win more cards that don't help when you're behind, they're completely dead/uncastable without a kci and if you already have a kci in play you win regardless
There's way too many suggestions for cards like this. I'm happy concede you need one of the above 3 if you play online but in paper there's no reason for the training wheels
Just had another good tournament with the whir build, sounds like most people here are on the nass build but thought I'd share it anyway
Got t4 at scg regionals and we chopped the cash so I scooped to a buddy that was playing jeskai since I didn't really care about the trophy/points and felt like he'd have a better chance at beating humans in the final than I did anyway
Rd 1: RB control/midrange 2-0
Not sure what he was doing, it was discard, relics, and removal. Nothing against my opp but the matchup felt like a bye, relics were a little annoying but he only had 1 g1 and g2 so it wasn't hard to make him pop it early without exposing too much of the combo
Rd 2: Affinity 2-1
I think this match is pretty tough but 1 change I mad was the 4th lingering souls for 1 grid, g3 I sat behind the grid + bridge and just murdered all of his things slowly until I got the combo together. Aff I'm still trying to decide exactly what the matchup is about, in general we are going to be slower than a good affinity playe that knows to for a fast infect kill so I think we're actually a control deck here, especially after loading up on sb.
Rd 3: GW 2-1
Usually this matchup is also really hard as they have a variety of sb cards that are very relevant between kataki, eidolon, stony, surgical, and dunno what big creatures they can Eldritch evo out. Winning g1 vs them is incredibly important because they are able to improve so much post board that we need that margin heading into post board games.
Rd 4: Dredge 2-0
Really easy match for my build, I have tons of relevant interaction with them while also being at least 1 turn faster
Rd 5: Humans 0-2
G1 I kill thalia but he vials in another one before I get a chance to combo and I fell to double champ hand, was pretty embarrassing since he was on a mull to 5 but they were highly relevant 5 cards obviously. G2 pretty similar, he katakis me on t2 but I kill it with spellbomb on my upkeep, rebuild stuff since I was anticipating it but then his t3 he drops thalia and I can't handle killing both.
Rd 6: Humans 2-1
Beat him g1 since he didn't have thalia, lost g2 due to thalia, won g3 because he didn't have thalia again. Hate to be so reductionist but really that's the take away. Thalia is extremely important in the match and it's important we identify that as a priority.
Rd 7: UR Moon 2-0
Thought he was on breach so was playing pretty defensively g1 but heading into g2 I got the impression he wasn't at all since he was pretty nonchalant about bridge so I just went balls out g2. Overall pretty easy match, was just patient until I had a window both games.
Rd 8: Mardu 2-0
Felt bad since it was a good buddy but honestly the matchup is pretty much a bye, I think I'm like 11-0 vs mardu pyro in competitive tournaments now
Rd 9: ID - Huge shout out to the guy who ID me, he was one of the many humans players in the t8 so not sure his name but I was actually given a game loss due to deck reg error and he still ID'd with me after. Not sure everyone would do this, especially with a complete stranger, but I really appreciated it.
Quarters: Humans 2-1
Same guy I lost to in the swiss, g1 he only had 1 thalia this time though so I was able to kill it and combo the subsequent turn. g2 I get run over by multiple sb cards. G3 he kept a bit of a stinker, goes hiearch into t2 play 2 vials, it lined up well since I jammed bmoon on t3 but fortunately I popped an ee on 1 t4 and he didn't cast another spell.
Semis: Jeskai - scooped to him
Like I mentioned, he was a good buddy that I felt would have a better chance in the finals since the other match was a humans mirror, we already chopped the cash and I didn't care about the trophy. I think we have a great jeskai matchup though so felt pretty confident if we did end up playing but hard to say, kci's power is mostly from an opp's unfamiliarity.
List felt really good, considering cutting lingering souls for torper orbs going forward, I'm just not seeing many h1/shadow decks anymore so thinking they might be unnecessary if the meta keeps moving towards more and more humans
2 spellbomb is pretty optional, I do it since humans is so popular but if you don't see much of it you should cut it probably.
Seems like a tough few rounds, I like bauble a lot vs the grixis decks since it fights discard well and can grind a ton of card advantage with trawler out. Storm is inherently difficult since they're just as fast but their interaction is typically better vs us than ours vs them
What archetype or match does having tron lands help against?
Not combo since you're slower
Not aggro because you're slower
Not fair decks...
Get it? You scoop to the same things every kci valiant does
The only reason to run emmy/hangar is they serve as extra trawlers incase they get surgical. Personally I think it's easy to play around and not popular enough to justify
Hangar is a meta call, great vs gbx and shadow and stuff, I prefer lingering souls since we don't play cavern it'll never resolve vs a reject
I prefer ee over hangar for a ton of reasons. One of which is enabling t1 opal, ee also one of the only reason humans is winnable. There's other random times you need to kill a trinisphere, md white leyline, chalice, etc.
Ostone has no place alongside a whir build, they are nonbos, I play me bridge instead of ostone, it's a lot better
Hornet queen is insane in so many matches it's been borderline md-able in some metagames, just not sure his logic on it
Has anyone used qasali over rec sage as well? I see more lists with torper orb for humans lately and I'm sure many of them realize the cross application to amulet
I'm a bit confused on sigarda though, I think I'm going to move a gq main and cut the 3rd peirce for hornet queen and either obaloth or dromoka or maybe bskull is good again? Not sure but I've thought sigarda was always one of the weakest alt win cons
Gds has too much interaction to rely on comboing, I enjoy playing the twin approach of keeping enough artifacts in play that they have to respect it but they have enough stub/creject that you'll never be able to force throughthe kci
Whir also shines as you can whir out the grid or coil while their gurmog is on the stack so stub is just a force spike
Bauble and bridge are also great in this match
These decks all have 2 things in common:
Tron
Amulet
Lantern
Kci
Stirrings and a hatred by snapcaster fanbois and tribal playerd
If you're going for t3 wins you aren't awarded the luxury of sandbagging your land drop, it is something I learned very early so I don't think utility lands are as a valuable as having a 5 color manabase that can surprise bmoon post board
Whir is more powerful in kci than lantern, we don't need "hardlocks" since we only need to disrupt the opp enough to open the door for our combo, we only need 1 bridge to have 5.
I'm sure after this weekend the parity will tilt even further towards rg and hurt all variants of kci quite a bit, if there's as many articles about the deck as i expect I'm probably going back to amulet for the foreseeable future
Edit:
Yeah kanister has been playing kci for a while, I know a buddy just lost to him on it online in the challenge yesterday as well, unsure if he's still whirring or on the nass build, he was also the first to run pentad md and ugin sb
I'm not sure why people feel the RG build has a consistency or speed advantage, it plays less 0s and the fizzle rate is really high since you don't have an instant win button in whir that you're drawing to. Every time I've played it, it felt a lot like the recent CFB videos, you start churning the wheels, fizzle, and risk getting completely blown out as yo pass. The only advantage I can see is Mindstone so I tried out a couple in the whir build, they were OK since it enabled turn 3 a little easier but they were so bad to draw mid-combo.
I fail to see exactly why RG is preferred other than it's simplicity?
Edit:
Also the nomenclature attributes it to Nass due to his success ofc
Technically kanister ran groves first: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/614490#paper
I love bauble, it's a really versatile card:
1. Great vs discard, you sandandbag cards in hand until you have the sufficient 4 mana to go off and expose as few resources to inq/seize
2. Interaction between trawler and stars vs mardu/gbx/other interactive decks, it resultsin just grinding them out of cards
3. Mid combo if you know hitting a land/non land is all you need to go off you can see your next card
4. Whir builds are obviously a lot more interactive than nass build, knowing when to "go for it" or when to whir defensively takes a lot of finesse and it's why whir is far better but far harder to play, bauble can give us clues about the opp hand to make better decisions
5. Enables t1 mod opal more often
I see a lot of people run 3 whir, even somein my testing group. I think it's very wrong, the card is absolutely insane and I think if you died due to 2 whir in hand it's because of the other 56 cards or a decision the pilot made
No, it's same as resevoir/banefire/emrakul/etc... they're all win more cards that don't help when you're behind, they're completely dead/uncastable without a kci and if you already have a kci in play you win regardless
There's way too many suggestions for cards like this. I'm happy concede you need one of the above 3 if you play online but in paper there's no reason for the training wheels
Got t4 at scg regionals and we chopped the cash so I scooped to a buddy that was playing jeskai since I didn't really care about the trophy/points and felt like he'd have a better chance at beating humans in the final than I did anyway
My list was the same that I played here https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1027791#paper
Rd 1: RB control/midrange 2-0
Not sure what he was doing, it was discard, relics, and removal. Nothing against my opp but the matchup felt like a bye, relics were a little annoying but he only had 1 g1 and g2 so it wasn't hard to make him pop it early without exposing too much of the combo
Rd 2: Affinity 2-1
I think this match is pretty tough but 1 change I mad was the 4th lingering souls for 1 grid, g3 I sat behind the grid + bridge and just murdered all of his things slowly until I got the combo together. Aff I'm still trying to decide exactly what the matchup is about, in general we are going to be slower than a good affinity playe that knows to for a fast infect kill so I think we're actually a control deck here, especially after loading up on sb.
Rd 3: GW 2-1
Usually this matchup is also really hard as they have a variety of sb cards that are very relevant between kataki, eidolon, stony, surgical, and dunno what big creatures they can Eldritch evo out. Winning g1 vs them is incredibly important because they are able to improve so much post board that we need that margin heading into post board games.
Rd 4: Dredge 2-0
Really easy match for my build, I have tons of relevant interaction with them while also being at least 1 turn faster
Rd 5: Humans 0-2
G1 I kill thalia but he vials in another one before I get a chance to combo and I fell to double champ hand, was pretty embarrassing since he was on a mull to 5 but they were highly relevant 5 cards obviously. G2 pretty similar, he katakis me on t2 but I kill it with spellbomb on my upkeep, rebuild stuff since I was anticipating it but then his t3 he drops thalia and I can't handle killing both.
Rd 6: Humans 2-1
Beat him g1 since he didn't have thalia, lost g2 due to thalia, won g3 because he didn't have thalia again. Hate to be so reductionist but really that's the take away. Thalia is extremely important in the match and it's important we identify that as a priority.
Rd 7: UR Moon 2-0
Thought he was on breach so was playing pretty defensively g1 but heading into g2 I got the impression he wasn't at all since he was pretty nonchalant about bridge so I just went balls out g2. Overall pretty easy match, was just patient until I had a window both games.
Rd 8: Mardu 2-0
Felt bad since it was a good buddy but honestly the matchup is pretty much a bye, I think I'm like 11-0 vs mardu pyro in competitive tournaments now
Rd 9: ID - Huge shout out to the guy who ID me, he was one of the many humans players in the t8 so not sure his name but I was actually given a game loss due to deck reg error and he still ID'd with me after. Not sure everyone would do this, especially with a complete stranger, but I really appreciated it.
Quarters: Humans 2-1
Same guy I lost to in the swiss, g1 he only had 1 thalia this time though so I was able to kill it and combo the subsequent turn. g2 I get run over by multiple sb cards. G3 he kept a bit of a stinker, goes hiearch into t2 play 2 vials, it lined up well since I jammed bmoon on t3 but fortunately I popped an ee on 1 t4 and he didn't cast another spell.
Semis: Jeskai - scooped to him
Like I mentioned, he was a good buddy that I felt would have a better chance in the finals since the other match was a humans mirror, we already chopped the cash and I didn't care about the trophy. I think we have a great jeskai matchup though so felt pretty confident if we did end up playing but hard to say, kci's power is mostly from an opp's unfamiliarity.
List felt really good, considering cutting lingering souls for torper orbs going forward, I'm just not seeing many h1/shadow decks anymore so thinking they might be unnecessary if the meta keeps moving towards more and more humans
Nass ran hot and a lot of people didn't know what he was doing
Seems like a tough few rounds, I like bauble a lot vs the grixis decks since it fights discard well and can grind a ton of card advantage with trawler out. Storm is inherently difficult since they're just as fast but their interaction is typically better vs us than ours vs them
If that's your meta you may want welding jar(s)
Not combo since you're slower
Not aggro because you're slower
Not fair decks...
Get it? You scoop to the same things every kci valiant does
The only reason to run emmy/hangar is they serve as extra trawlers incase they get surgical. Personally I think it's easy to play around and not popular enough to justify
I prefer ee over hangar for a ton of reasons. One of which is enabling t1 opal, ee also one of the only reason humans is winnable. There's other random times you need to kill a trinisphere, md white leyline, chalice, etc.
Ostone has no place alongside a whir build, they are nonbos, I play me bridge instead of ostone, it's a lot better