MTG Salvation

I got the whole set on pre-order before the spoilers were sent out. Right now the initial supply is really low for some reason so prices are climbing to 160-170 a set with people getting orders cancelled. I don't see this set doing better than commander 2018, so if anyone wants to buy the set, please look at the prices on the secondary market for the majority of the cards in those sets now. I'm 100% sure if people just sit and wait, the prices are going to basically collapse on all the commander decks except maybe two cards or something. It's really bad.

The thing is people can argue all they want on the side of justifying the lack of proper value cards. There has to be value based cards in the set that are a known quantity for a commander product to be successful. Commander 2015 and 2016 were excellent sets and they kept selling to the point of being very scarce late season. Commander 2018 was stuck on the shelves for up to probably 2 months ago. Think about that before stepping into buying a commander 2019 deck at inflated prices because WoTC and distributors screwed up.

This really is complete crap. Sorry, but WoTC basically carted Gavin out to showcase Seedborn Muse, knowing that people would then assume they would have at least something on par with commander 2017 this season, and then they gave us absolute garbage after pre-orders were already done. No one should trust Wizards of the Coast on anything they say about a product after this point. They've done this way too much and they do know about the secondary market and the value the cards have on a product. Otherwise, they wouldn't have ever made the Modern Masters series and created the concept that "modern" means "premium" as a product.

Quote from Arctanis8 »

I think everyone should stop and remember what their first experience of EDH was when thinking of who these decks are for. I'm not sure how many started with 2011, but I started there. My first deck was Zedruu (exchange.dec) which won with Storm Herd. I didn't have to worry about getting beatdown by cEDH decks because there was no such thing. Fast forward a few years, and it's easy to see how newer players are denied the experience of playing a deck out of the box and slowly tuning it to their liking. I think the best remedy as someone mentioned earlier would be to communicate what type of playgroup / playstyle you're sitting with and adjust accordingly. Don't play cEDH decks against new players.

I'm very curious to see how everyone ranks the Commander products. I'm sure as a community we'd be all over the map. It seems like reprints are the thing that people consider the most when deciding whether a product is successful. That's interesting, since I've always felt like the commanders and new cards were the most important (and I know this is just my opinion). Perhaps that's why 2018 is viewed with such a negative lens? I felt that set was 4th best behind 2011, 2013 and 2016.

The issue is that the game has enough cards as is that people need for commander decks and reprinting cards that are basically replaceable bulk is not helping the commander community. Commander players love new cards, but they also want old cards that are not readily available. Every single blasted reprint in this set felt like it was from some massively opened set in the last two years, when the cards people need are things like Cyclonic Rift, Chromatic Lantern, allied pain lands, Mana Echoes, Sylvan Tutor, Cruel Tutor, etc.

Basically, they are saving anything with even the smell of a high secondary market price now for premium products. That is what is killing everything else.

Before people jump on wrenn and styx, keep in mind the reason the price of the singles are outpacing the boxes is due to skittishness on distributors who are tired of wotc shoveling so much product at them during the summer.

The situation is like pre 2013 magic singles, which just cant hold. Either the box price goes up or the cards come down from mass opening.

The box EV is 20 dollars below ultimate masters without the box topper.

Quote from icehippo »

Bridge was the obvious choice but not because of any reason listed by wizards or anyone here. It was the obvious choice because wizards always bans the oldest card. Hogaak is brand new, altar is new to modern, and bridge was already around. With the exception of Treasure cruise and dig through time, I can’t think of a single time the format broke because new cards busted previously unbroken things and it was the new cards that got the ax. Wotc doesn’t take action against the newest cards unless it absolutely, unquestionably, without any shadow of doubt have to.

Well, yeah. The choice would ultimately come down to either banning the brand new card or banning the older one. It makes no sense to ban the new card that just got released into modern as it would hurt the bottom line of the sealed product sales such as with what happened during Kaladesh Era. They even pulled out a new PR figure to take peoples attention away from Maro with Gavin, so you know it was a big deal internally as well.

The thing is that isn't something to demonize, though. That's literally someone making the right decision so that they still have a job and money on the table. The kind of thing to really grill them on is not banning Faithless looting. Yes, they don't want to kill graveyard decks in modern, but I just have to ask why? I just don't get the reasoning.

I've started to realize that spending money chasing the hype cards is a bad plan in general. Watched a seminar on hook, habit, hobby marketing strategies and realized that most of this is psychological manipulation.

The big problem is the company went full EA on the community post modern masters 2 and decided they can create artificially high prices by setting a high box price, and now they are going into making special mythic edition super limited print run boxes. I'm genuinely afraid of where the game is going.

They even introduced an arena season pass now to get the hooks in deeper on arena.

It would be interesting to use in Scapeshift decks. This set feels like an overflow set for what they couldn't stuff into Modern Horizons to some degree.

What does the mulligan fix, and why is it better than the old way? The point of playing a card game is dealing with what life gives you, for better or worse. The more something detracts from that aspect, the less card game like the game gets. To me, it sounds like wizards is giving in to the idea of letting people pick the starting hand with minimal repercussions.

The change isn't going to discourage cheating on the competitive circuit, so I'm really wondering what the long term plan is.

I'm not posting as much, but I definitely think we need a place like mtgsalvation forums that don't turn into a chaotic reddit slug fest.

Brewing decks is what keeps this game alive.

The little child in me... it can't be contained... it's the frog I nicknamed sporgy and was in every single deck that I included green in back when it first was released. Sporgy has come home...

Dear lord do not buy any japanese cards until the supply hickup gets dealt with. It's really, really bad right now on War of the Spark and everything is inflated into oblivion.

Source was twitch dot tv slash magic.

Some hoops to jump through for the first land with hexproof.

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49777-the-end-of-an-era


It has been my pleasure to get to know a lot of you here, to work with the wonderful staff that we have had over the years, and most importantly, make this site somewhere that people can converge and discuss the greatest of all Magic formats. On behalf of the rest of the Commander staff past and present, thank you to everyone for helping to make this one of the best Commander forums on the internet.

But wait, there's more!

As Feyd mentioned in the article, we are working on a new home for anyone that wishes to follow us on that journey. It is still very much a work in progress, but our goal is to make our new home even more of a community site than what we have now. Beyond that, I can't say much just yet, but as we get closer I'll keep everyone informed in this thread.

If you have any questions or better yet, have any input on things you would like to see then please feel free to post in this thread and we will respond to the best of our abilities.

Looking optimistically forward,
cryogen

Quote from Colt47 »

Quote from gkourou »

What? We just had a Humans vs Affinity pro tour final. We just had Humans as one of the best decks(and 3 copies into the top 8 and no mention at all?), UWx Control is gaining traction because of the new cards and MH is probably going to boost most of the fair decks.

Colt, I know you just come in here to speak about a new format or make frontier look glorious; but let's get real.

Modern is going to be the premier non-rotating format for many years to come and I predict there is going to be a Modern Horizons 2, because MH is probably going to be a huuuuge success.

I was actually serious. I didn't keep track of modern the past few weeks so it was a legitimate question, not sarcasm.

Also Frontier isn't glorious, it's a niche format that has a cult following. That and I'm not holding my breath for anything WoTC pushes as a format to hold, but I do know some people who are speculating on that inbetween standard and modern format.

Technically, EDH seems to be having a huge boom thanks to War of the Spark, given the price trends I've seen.

Not so much speculation as it is an inevitability. They launch a new online client that only supports cards in a rotating standard format and those cards can be bought with real world money; once those cards rotate out, WotC isn't going to make an announcement telling Arena players "Well, we forgot to put the whole rotation thing in the tutorial; but fun while it lasted, right?". Partly due to the fact that WotC would rather suffer from Ebola than participate in any form of direct community outreach, but mostly due to the fact that Arena was a planned project and turned out to be a gold mine for WotC + Hasbro shareholders. The need for another format/game function to ensure players don't feel conned come rotation is likely one of the first things WotC considered. It's also likely that solution will be confined to the Arena client only.

Standard is in the best place its been for quite some time and Modern is about to receive the largest single infusion of new cards in the format's history. I'd buy them maybe wanting to try out something like a "Legacy-Lite" were a new format introduced to the paper game, but there's no need for a frontier 2.0 in the paper game. Sure, I'd imagine some players would try it out in paper, but anything of the sort would be created for the sole purpose of maintaining the illusion for some Arena players that their collections aren't completely worthless come rotation time. I'm pretty computer savvy when it comes to hardware and building machines, but I don't know the first thing about programming; if it's feasible for WotC to realistically port over older cards/formats into Arena one day then maybe they'll put some thought into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just rip Hearthstone, call it "Wild", and figure it out as they go.

Quote from cfusionpm »

Motivation for playing modern seems to be dwindling by the week. I asked myself why I make this a priority still, as attendance is continuing to fall week in and week out. Last Friday we had 11 people registered for Modern FNM, when it was fairly common to have anywhere from 20 to 40 people on average. Not sure if I am even going out tonight. The new B&R update, as well as Modern Horizons can't come soon enough.

The assumption that we all had to wait for Horizon's before anything would get done has killed even the desire to discuss the format, let alone play it. I've played maybe 4 matches in probably 3 months in my LabMan/Jace self mill Turns deck.

Still though, since we assume Horizons fill 'fix' the meta, its just not worth talking about what at the highest level is painfully repetitive Magic.

yeah once horizons was announced people (primarily speculators) identified enemy fetches as a major bottleneck for a lot of decks in the format. this is why misty rainforests spiked nearly 20 dollars despite no increase in play demand (in fact bant spirits waning meant demand was at a low). for those trying to expand their collection (as opposed to needing them to play); this is one of the worst times to pick them up due to the artificial inflation.

i also agree that some theoretical 'price cap' exists for different cards, where the community/players sort of collectively decides that its just too expensive. i just dont think its brought up that much because the concept is difficult to impossible to quantify with any sort of accuracy; mostly because it can vary and is rather arbitrary.

its noteworthy that when this happens for certain cards, namely the enemy fetches, that some excess demand trickles over to the cheaper, yet still serviceable, options. in this case that is the allied khans fetches. that, along with similar speculation as mentioned above, has inflated allied fetch prices somewhat in the past few months; despite their relative lack of movement/growth over the past few years.

if modern horizons performs as planned, and invigorates popularity in modern; then id expect a good portion of the modern index to rally and increase across the board. if that is the case its not so much about what cards may increase, but rather which cards are less likely to see a reprint soon. in that regards i believe enemy fetches are above average in likelihood (allied fetches somewhat lower because of a possible reprint not including the full cycle). allied fast lands seem a likely inclusion to standard in the next year or so; either through a core set or a return to phyrexia.

this article breaks down when most played cards in modern were last reprinted (up through UMA): http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/38041_The-Masters-Sets-Are-DeadAnd-Magic-Finance-Has-Changed.html

This has been bugging me for a while now about the state of the story and the future of the game. I'd appreciate some of the communities thoughts on this.

First let me say a couple things about my perspective. I'm a kitchen table player. Period. I've been playing for a good stretch of years (Started in Mirage block). I participated in the Champions of Kamigawa pre-release, and that was both my debut and my retirement from playing outside my friends basements and rec rooms.

I've rolled with a lot of changes to the game over the years and for the most part they've been positive for my little kitchen ecosystem. Planeswalkers, however have been a mixed bag. Sure, they're fun to play with and they're exciting to build around, but just the nature of basically being "an enchantment you can attack" means that people tend to build slower, grindier, defensive decks so they can keep planeswalkers on the board. And while it makes you feel powerful to control the board while you slowly tick up your Venser so you can go ultimate and exile your opponents permanents at will, it's not super fun for a table to know that the game is basically over five turns before it ends.

So I'm not a huge fan. But, this isn't a "planeswalkers stink" post. I just had to set up my feelings before I got to my point:

Now we come to War of the Spark. We have a couple of different ways that the War of the Spark can go technically. But, we all kind of know which way it's actually going to play out. There's going to be a struggle between The Gatewatch and Bolas. The Gatewatch will be victorious, but at a great cost (of probably some b level planeswalkers they'd like to replace with more interesting ones). This, in my opinion, just STINKS. So then Bolas (the most interesting personality in mtg, lets be real), either a) dies or b) gets imprisoned/neutralized or c) escapes to some secret plane to lick his wounds. We follow up this set with a few sets on new planes with some depressed and lightly beat-up gatewatch members. "Jace with an Eyepatch" "Ajani Peg Leg" "Chandra the Mildly Concussed" "Vivian, but Sorta Itchy".

The most interesting and engaging possibility, in my opinion, by far, with no close second, is a hands down win by Nicol Bolas. Hear me out. What actually happens if Bolas wins? Lots of planeswalkers die. Probably not all of them, that's marketing suicide. Some more resilient walkers will escape to far corners of the multiverse. But hey, wouldn't the newly ascended Bolas God hunt them down with his infinite power? Actually, probably not.

The thing about being omniscient and all powerful is that suddenly, the concerns of the lowly citizens of the planes tends to fade far in the background. Think of it this way: there's a couple visions of godhood in literature. There's the cackling demigod who sits on throne on top of a pyramid and demands constant sacrifices from his followers. This kind of god may be very powerful, but is physically and mentally attached to the world and what happens in it. Think of Aku from Samurai Jack.

The other kind is less of a physical presence in the world, more of a psychological and mythical "energy" that menaces the citizens and directs their actions and moods but doesn't necessarily directly interact with them. A good example of this is Sauron from LotR. You could even say that Emrakul played this role on Innistrad before her reveal.

I think this is the most interesting place the story AND the game could go with War of the Spark. Most of the current planeswalkers are killed. Bolas ascends to godhood, he begins to indirectly menace the remaining few. Cults pop up all over the multiverse worshiping "The Great Dragon". Those who get too close to the dragon-god are driven mad or enthralled. Planeswalkers are rarer than before. Maybe a planeswalker every two sets for a little while. I don't know, but a return to planeswalkers being unique and special cards that you're thrilled to open and play with would be good for everybody.

Of course, that's never going to happen. Sigh...

What are your thoughts?

The value on Arena is time and enjoyment.

On Arena I don't have to travel over an hour to get to a LGS and sit on a hard chair.
On Arena I don't have to concede to someone because I don't like them and don't want to spend 50 minutes staring at their face, pretending to be sportsmanlike.
On Arena I can drop a bunch of $ and get full decks with tons of Mythics.
On Arena there is no toxicity because you can't chat or anything, if they spam Emotes you can mute them.
On Arena I get stuff for free every day, and I can save the Gold to get more stuff later. Right now I have 30,000 gold saved, so by the time M20 comes out in July or whenever, or War of the Spark in April, I'll be able to get 30+ packs and have a new deck build immediately.
On Arena I don't need sleeves or dice, or a judge.
On Arena I can get a game any time I want...yes you can do this with Cockatrice or whatever, but I never liked those clients.

Arena is beastly. Once they add cosmetic or Season rewards (Avatars for finishing at Mythic, Gold, Platinium, Diamond, Siver, Bronze...) the game will be unstoppable.

Heck, I sold all my paper junk except for a Commander deck or two because I just don't want to play with people unless one of my best friends that I like is there, and he's there only once in a while because he lives two hours away (or less) in MTL.

Quote from Colt47 »

Quote from Joban8 »

I agree that the bubble for PW-centric cards will likely burst, but there's still a good 1-2 months left for those values to inflate. Strix can be re-printed (for the 7th time) in MH, so I'd definitely suggest ditching your copies while folks are still willing to pay $10 a pop. However, Zen fetches will not be in MH or any set within the foreseeable future, so selling now would be extremely premature IMO. Tarn may have hit/come close to it's all time high, but the others have just started making their way up to new highs. Even in the most conservative scenario where one thinks MH might introduce a land cycle that somehow makes fetches less desirable, I wouldn't begin to think about offloading them until the week or so before spoilers are set to debut.

It's best to set a threshold for the price point to sell, rather than waiting for the peak to come. The only way to know the peak is hit is to see the price start to fall, and at that point it is too late. Someone might lose out on a few extra dollars short term, but the long term is what is important.

Agreed, but that same logic works both ways; sell too early and you're just leaving money on the table. In regards to zen fetches, it's just common sense. What're the odds they'll be reprinted between now and MH spoiler season? Nearly 0%. Is there reason to believe demand will cease between now and then? Negative. Based on the all-time highs for each card, excluding Tarn, the average growth needed just to approach those all-time highs is about 36%; since we know what people have been willing to pay in the past, we're not blindly watching their value increase with no reasonable expectations for a ceiling value. Therefore, if you wanted to sell your zen fetches while both maximizing profit and minimizing risk, the week before MH spoilers is a logical time to do so. That's just being conservative; there's a good chance that MH will only push demand further post-release and we could see prices climb well throughout the Summer into Fall.

Quote from BestMagicGamer »

Heaven forbid that you get tired of playing the same deck over and over and want to change it up and make something else competitive. Now I need to earn another 20 rares and 10 mythics (on average Id say) to build another deck of a different type. Arena is a huge expense IMO.

So much truth right here...

In Arena it's all valueless except in it's rarity which is selectively doled out by a program that rewards only time or (larger) amounts of money.

As well as this.