Regarding Faithless Looting, how come Mardu gets away running only 20 lands with looting, but we are always tinkering with the regular 24 land build, even with Faithless Looting included? I mean, Mardu's curve is not that much cheaper than ours. Of course, playing with looting would mean that we might need to cut BBE to avoid silly cascades..
[speculation]
Considering that how fast, retarted and non-interactive format modern has become during the recent years, with new graveyard haste deck born every other week, would unbanning Deathrite Shaman be even unreasonable thing to happen in not so distant future?
[/speculation]
R1 won 2-1 vs Boggles
R2 won 2-0 vs Dredge
R3 won 2-0 vs Devoded Company
R4 drew 1-1-1 vs Grixis DS (I did not find removal G3, would have lost this, but managed to draw the game on extra rounds and I placed #1 because he was not 3-0 record)
Assassin's Trophy is such a good all around answer. It blew one Leyline and one Tasigur and lots of smaller creatures tonight. There was one occasion against Death's Shadow deck that I did not want to give him extra land because he was a bit mana screwed, otherwise the drawback did not matter at all.
- How are the Lilianas last hope in main deck doing? Compared to Lotv?
- Do you miss blue counterspells in the 75? What made you decide to run white instead of blue?
- How is k command doing?
My meta is heavily biased towards midrange and token strategies, that is the main reason to go with Lili the Last Hope instead of LotV. There are also control decks quite often, but I felt that with the white splash I have enough grinding power against them. I did not miss blue in those matchups I faced last night.
KCommand did fine against all the matchups, being especially bonkers against the puresteel combo. I used all the mods of KCommand last night. There was also one new KCI being played, so I suppose it will stay in the main deck.
1-2 vs Eldrazi Tron
2-0 vs Angel Stompy
2-0 vs Puresteel Combo
2-0 vs Dredge
I would have won the g3 against Eldrazi Tron, but I only draw Lingering Souls as my only threat during the first 10-12 turns.. I had ripped his hand apart and hosed his mana with Alpine Moon, but just could not get him down in time..
Solid 75 to my meta, no changes planned currently.
Sideboarding guide regarding the BR Hollow One troubles me.. I mean why would we want to side 4 x LoTV out against Delve fatties and Hollow Ones? Is there some merit to leave bolts and pushes in opposite to LoTV?
So BBE hasnt been great for you on average? I know there is variance, but, for me, if the average is a little bit over the top and the worst case is just a hasty 3/2 creature it probably can still trade 1-for-1 (which is the baseline for our deck) I am more than happy. In that sense variance reaches from ok to insane. Also to add, we should not just use BBE as answers for opponents threats, unless we are in a desperate position and need a specific card to turn things around. In that sense the variance is also not very bothering, if you just don't rely on the cascade card too much.
All this and also one thing that is easy to not notice while cascading: it removes all the (unnecessary?) lands from the top of your deck, and even if you do hit IoK with cascade on turn 12, hey, atleast you are not drawing that IoK on the next draw step. So effect to your coming draws is also huge.
Regarding artwork topic:
Always original art, also with BBE. I think the Argyle art on BBE is too fancy, nothing "bloodbraidish" in that elf, it would better fit for some GW coloured elf.
Just pulled the trigger and ordered beta basics.. insane to pay ~10€ for a basic land, but couldnt help myself..
Lightning bolts are altered fourth edition ones, damn those beta bolts are also getting quite expensive!
I was first running 25 lands and 3 scooze with 0 pushes, but got inspired by EctoMark's list and settled with this.
I flooded yesterday into a 1-3 result in another event, today manabase worked like a charm. I think that no one in the world can currently convince me to run 25 lands in this deck.
Basic mountain and 2 Dreadbores are for UW/UR/UWR/Grixis control decks which I see a lot my meta but dodged them all tonight.
PEOPLE: play Treetop Village, the Ape is bonkers! Cheap activation allows you to leave up mana for removal and the 3/3 body with a trample is no joke.
My games:
Round 1 - 2-0 vs ETron
OUT: 2 IoK, 4 bolt
IN: 3 Fulminator, Pulse, Thrun, Grudge
I am not 100% sure if I actually left all the IoKs into the deck after SBing, because IoK won me the G1 when I discarded his Map with it. G2 he had T3 tron into Smasher which I made him sack. That was his only tentacle monster before I broke his tron with Fulminator and rode to victory.
Round 3 - 2-1 vs Soulflayer combo
G1 opponent has lethal Soulflayer on board. My only out is to cast BBE and flip a Lili, which happens.
I could have probably won this round within 2 games put I punt hard in G2, by playing out Liliana into an empty table. I did not realize that he can get haste for the Soulflayer and lost to that punt. Well, it was the first time I ever saw this deck..
OUT: 2 Kommand, 2 bolt
IN: 2 spellbomb, Pulse, Thrun
Round 4 - 2-0 vs Ponza
I offered ID to him because he absolutely crushed me with T2 and T3 Blood Moon yesterday, but he declines the offer..
This deck indeed loses much to itself. G1 he mulled to 5, his BBE cascaded into Utopia Sprawl etc.. G2 was extremely close game where he casted 2 Thundermaw Hellkites and a Inferno Titan. I always have either Lili sack, Pulse or Dreadbore in hand when needed.
OUT: 2 Kommand, 2 Ooze
IN: Pulse, Seal of Primordium, 2 CB
I haven't been struggling with mana at all. I've been flooded more if anything. Bbe actually mitagatea some of that flood.
Agreed. Did not even realize until played some games that how much BBE fixes your flooding and bad top decks too! Even if you "miss" with your Cascade (hit discard when opp has no cards etc), atleast you are not drawing that useless card next turn!
BBE is gonna put Jund sooo far ahead of other BGx decks.
I also find Reid's approach to be super conservative, but he is THE Master so I will not judge anything.. Maybe we have been forgetting that there will be other decks also around than the ones running Jace.
I am personally very eager to warp my deck around BBE at the moment, not sure if this will be the correct way in the end.
I am playing in a meta that is filled with token strategies (Abzan,Mardu,BW,Esper) and am a bit worried that will BBE be able to run over those decks.
I have been toying with the same idea that some guys have also posted in this thread: splashing white for Lingering Souls.
With singleton Godless Shrine and BBE Cascade there should be good chances to get it working. And for worst case scenarios we have Lili and Collective brutality to discard it for flashback:
Every report of Jeskai/UW looks really grim for Jund, guys. Be prepared to realize Jund may have actually taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Unless some serious innovations occur in Jund I really suspect non blue midrange may suffer big time.
You are probably right. I watched one guy playing "Grixis Jace" against Jund in Twitch yesterday and it looked brutal. He glocked the board with Bitterblossom tokens and brainstormed all the removal in the world with Jace. Made BBE look ridiculous..
In the coming weeks we prolly see all sort of blue decks (Grixis,UW,Jeskai,Esper,BUG,RUG) playing Jace and this will eventually lead the metagame to become super aggressive. That is when Jund comes back in.
I also think that Dreadbore deserves maindeck spot, since we want to maximize our hit chance with cascade. I am also dropping Abrupt Decay for now. I think that Abrupt Decay is great on hitting opposing Liliana's as well as Blood Moon and some artifacts. But with Dreadbore, Kommand and Pulse, I think all of those aspects are already handled.
That Jadine's article was great thing to read, really put me thinking the future play style of Jund. I think Jund might be coming such a value train that we dont even realize yet.
Should our mainboard discard package become Thoughtseizes + Collective Brutalities, in order to avoid whiffing with cascade as much as possible?
Also the landbase of Yuuya Watanabe's 2012 Jund list is interesting, total of 6 manlands!
Considering that how fast, retarted and non-interactive format modern has become during the recent years, with new graveyard haste deck born every other week, would unbanning Deathrite Shaman be even unreasonable thing to happen in not so distant future?
[/speculation]
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Wooded Foothills
Creatures 15
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Instants 10
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Assassin's Trophy
Sorceries 6
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Choke
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
3-0-1 record with above deck.
R1 won 2-1 vs Boggles
R2 won 2-0 vs Dredge
R3 won 2-0 vs Devoded Company
R4 drew 1-1-1 vs Grixis DS (I did not find removal G3, would have lost this, but managed to draw the game on extra rounds and I placed #1 because he was not 3-0 record)
Assassin's Trophy is such a good all around answer. It blew one Leyline and one Tasigur and lots of smaller creatures tonight. There was one occasion against Death's Shadow deck that I did not want to give him extra land because he was a bit mana screwed, otherwise the drawback did not matter at all.
My meta is heavily biased towards midrange and token strategies, that is the main reason to go with Lili the Last Hope instead of LotV. There are also control decks quite often, but I felt that with the white splash I have enough grinding power against them. I did not miss blue in those matchups I faced last night.
KCommand did fine against all the matchups, being especially bonkers against the puresteel combo. I used all the mods of KCommand last night. There was also one new KCI being played, so I suppose it will stay in the main deck.
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Stomping Ground
2 Godless Shrine
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
2 Temur Battle Rage
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Golgari Charm
2 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Alpine Moon
1 Ranger of Eos
3 Lingering Souls
3-1 result with the list above.
1-2 vs Eldrazi Tron
2-0 vs Angel Stompy
2-0 vs Puresteel Combo
2-0 vs Dredge
I would have won the g3 against Eldrazi Tron, but I only draw Lingering Souls as my only threat during the first 10-12 turns.. I had ripped his hand apart and hosed his mana with Alpine Moon, but just could not get him down in time..
Solid 75 to my meta, no changes planned currently.
All this and also one thing that is easy to not notice while cascading: it removes all the (unnecessary?) lands from the top of your deck, and even if you do hit IoK with cascade on turn 12, hey, atleast you are not drawing that IoK on the next draw step. So effect to your coming draws is also huge.
Regarding artwork topic:
Always original art, also with BBE. I think the Argyle art on BBE is too fancy, nothing "bloodbraidish" in that elf, it would better fit for some GW coloured elf.
Just pulled the trigger and ordered beta basics.. insane to pay ~10€ for a basic land, but couldnt help myself..
Lightning bolts are altered fourth edition ones, damn those beta bolts are also getting quite expensive!
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (9)
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate
Sorceries (9)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Dreadbore
2 Thoughtseize
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
2 Treetop Village
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Collective Brutality
1 Thrun, the last troll
I was first running 25 lands and 3 scooze with 0 pushes, but got inspired by EctoMark's list and settled with this.
I flooded yesterday into a 1-3 result in another event, today manabase worked like a charm. I think that no one in the world can currently convince me to run 25 lands in this deck.
Basic mountain and 2 Dreadbores are for UW/UR/UWR/Grixis control decks which I see a lot my meta but dodged them all tonight.
PEOPLE: play Treetop Village, the Ape is bonkers! Cheap activation allows you to leave up mana for removal and the 3/3 body with a trample is no joke.
My games:
Round 1 - 2-0 vs ETron
OUT: 2 IoK, 4 bolt
IN: 3 Fulminator, Pulse, Thrun, Grudge
I am not 100% sure if I actually left all the IoKs into the deck after SBing, because IoK won me the G1 when I discarded his Map with it. G2 he had T3 tron into Smasher which I made him sack. That was his only tentacle monster before I broke his tron with Fulminator and rode to victory.
Round 2 - 2-1 vs Naya Burn
OUT: 4 Bob, 2 TS
IN: 2 CB, 2 Finks, Lavamancer, Pulse
Round 3 - 2-1 vs Soulflayer combo
G1 opponent has lethal Soulflayer on board. My only out is to cast BBE and flip a Lili, which happens.
I could have probably won this round within 2 games put I punt hard in G2, by playing out Liliana into an empty table. I did not realize that he can get haste for the Soulflayer and lost to that punt. Well, it was the first time I ever saw this deck..
OUT: 2 Kommand, 2 bolt
IN: 2 spellbomb, Pulse, Thrun
Round 4 - 2-0 vs Ponza
I offered ID to him because he absolutely crushed me with T2 and T3 Blood Moon yesterday, but he declines the offer..
This deck indeed loses much to itself. G1 he mulled to 5, his BBE cascaded into Utopia Sprawl etc.. G2 was extremely close game where he casted 2 Thundermaw Hellkites and a Inferno Titan. I always have either Lili sack, Pulse or Dreadbore in hand when needed.
OUT: 2 Kommand, 2 Ooze
IN: Pulse, Seal of Primordium, 2 CB
4 bolts + 1-2 Fatal Push can most of the time handle the manland issue.
I will also probably jam Dreadbores in place of Terminates for a while and see how many Jace decks there will be in my meta, my expectation is: A LOT.
Agreed. Did not even realize until played some games that how much BBE fixes your flooding and bad top decks too! Even if you "miss" with your Cascade (hit discard when opp has no cards etc), atleast you are not drawing that useless card next turn!
BBE is gonna put Jund sooo far ahead of other BGx decks.
I am personally very eager to warp my deck around BBE at the moment, not sure if this will be the correct way in the end.
I am playing in a meta that is filled with token strategies (Abzan,Mardu,BW,Esper) and am a bit worried that will BBE be able to run over those decks.
I have been toying with the same idea that some guys have also posted in this thread: splashing white for Lingering Souls.
With singleton Godless Shrine and BBE Cascade there should be good chances to get it working. And for worst case scenarios we have Lili and Collective brutality to discard it for flashback:
Here is my current approach:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Godless Shrine
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Dreadbore
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
You are probably right. I watched one guy playing "Grixis Jace" against Jund in Twitch yesterday and it looked brutal. He glocked the board with Bitterblossom tokens and brainstormed all the removal in the world with Jace. Made BBE look ridiculous..
In the coming weeks we prolly see all sort of blue decks (Grixis,UW,Jeskai,Esper,BUG,RUG) playing Jace and this will eventually lead the metagame to become super aggressive. That is when Jund comes back in.
Here is my current approach:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Treetop Village
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Dreadbore
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Should our mainboard discard package become Thoughtseizes + Collective Brutalities, in order to avoid whiffing with cascade as much as possible?
Also the landbase of Yuuya Watanabe's 2012 Jund list is interesting, total of 6 manlands!