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  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @Mol7 - KCI is terrible and this is crazy. lol. BUT, you do have some very good points and ideas being thrown around here. Namely the committing more to one type of deck than a mixture of all 3. We are best at being a prison deck like you said, and second best at being a combo deck.

    When you mentioned spyglass effects I totally forgot we have new card in Sorcerous Spyglass. I hate to play chalice because I would lose out on serum visions, hand disruption, pithing needle and relic of progenitus. However spyglass makes that a little less of a problem. I feel like I NEED hand disruption though. In games 2-3 I have stripped cards i couldn't beat otherwise countless times.

    This leads me to believe that instead of Chalice of the Void, maybe we should be trying 3-4 copies of Trinisphere. I can still fire off my hand disruption for cheap but them lock down most of my opponents deck. After all, Whir always costs 3+ and so doesn't ensnaring bridge and tezzeret. Paying one more for a combo piece that we don't whir into play does't sound awful to me either.

    I have been wanting to test KCI as my third combo piece but I have been playing on MTGO and it is rather cumbersome to gain a lot of life with the combo on there in a timely manner. I think comboing harder is going to be our best solution against big mana. "Be proavtive". But instead of beating down just have them be straight dead on T3/4.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    I just flipped through his lists. Very interesting to see how once he added Whir of Invention he started bringing the game 1 hate in cards like Grafdigger's Cage and Withbane Orb. The issue I have always had with the deck was beating the cards the sneak through the lock in the first couple of turns like Planeswalkers, O power attackers or Ensnaring Bridge removal. Whir does seem to help a lot in all of those situations.

    I have been having a lot of success in testing the most recent Tezzeret shells and adapting to the current meta game but it is difficult to argue that the lantern route might just be better than the thopter/sword strategy. The number of unfavorable matchups for tezzeret decks at the top tables has been increasing. The Thalia's in humans and taxes decks are brutal, Tron and Valakut are difficult as usual. Shadow isn't terribly favorable and neither is game 1 against storm.

    I love the deck but I think it is time we start exploring some more ways to beat up on the tier 1 metagame again. Last major adaptions were for Whir and sideboard splashes.

    I'll update again once I feel I have found something worth pursuing but I see holes in the metagame we may be able to adapt to with Tezzeret lists much like how lantern has been adapting. Namely this article has peaked my interest. https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/decks-like-deaths-shadow-will-always-become-the-best-deck/ In summary it is saying all powerful eternal formats will eventually evolve into Turbo Xerox vs Big Mana/Prison. We are starting to see with with Eldrazi Tron/Valakut as well as Death's Shadow and Storm. Generally you want to pick a side and be the best deck on that side but we are not going to be better at either of those strategies than the already established decks. We however can blur lines between the 2 better than almost anyone else can.

    Thorn of Amethyst,Trinisphere,Chalice of the Void, Lodestone Golem. All proven to be some of the best ways to beat up on Turbo Xerox decks. All also artifacts.

    Crucible of Worlds lets us keep pace with big mana and so doesn't Mox Opal

    We have dumps for situation cards in Collective Brutallity, Thirst for Knowledge and Liliana of the Veil

    A lot of the prison elements have been there in the more recent successful lists running all 4x Ensnaring Bridge.

    If we can figure out how to bridge the gap, I think we will really have something but this has proven to be more difficult than I first anticipated.

    Happy Testing.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Quote from 7he5haman »
    Another strong finish (13th place) in the MTGO Challenge by a (non-Turbo) Tezz deck: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-11-12

    This one has included the Thopter-Sword combo in the MB (which is a change from Meltiin's Challenge-winning list (see a post from Radouf above)).

    And the SB is a thing of beauty!


    Hey Radouf, I know you spent some time on the dark side with lantern. What can you tell us about the evolution of that lantern list that did well? It seems like it has recived a lot of the innovation we had been working on but in a streamlined top control shell.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    If we can find a way to play Chalice of the Void, Crucible Lock, Bridge Lock and not die then I would be all about it. I'm just not sure how we would go about handling such a wide format.

    Chalice of the Void is great with fast mana. We have the best fast mana in the format with Mox Opal. We just need to to power up Mox with a bunch of zeros like Mishra's Bauble, Welding Jar, Tormod's Crypt, Darksteel Citadel. Maybe play a red splash for more fast mana in SSG. It may even be a variant without black, without Whir and focus Trinket Mage and Trophy Mage.

    If you make any progress in this endeavor please keep us updated. It is something I have always thought about but never successfully pulled together. Before Thopter/Sword I played a Trinket Mage package and it felt very powerful when I could find the time to deploy it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Quote from Magpie842 »
    Hey all, Magpie842 reporting in =)

    I was playing the deck locally and in bigger more national events over the past few months (in England) and, like others, I just think the meta is in a rough spot for this deck. After the last couple big events I went to, where 1/3 to 1/2 of my matchups were super terrible (scapeshift valakut, eldrazi tron, other trons) I've shifted away from the deck and am playing Jeskai Control and a brew. I just think that it's really hard to win consistently with the deck at the moment, since artifact hate is back in vogue and difficult matchups are rife in the meta.

    I love the deck and will be back when it is =). Just wanted to say hi and explain my thoughts on the deck right now.


    I mostly agree with you. Eldrazi tron is unfavorable, you have to be real good to get the 50/50 out of the Shadow match up, and you might as well scoop and get a cheeseburger when you see T1 Search for Tomorrow.I love the deck, and the deck is powerful, but right now we are not well positioned. B&R Hype?!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Quote from TugaTog »
    @boomforest I disagree with the part that the deck is dead on arrival Wink
    It's a tough meta, no question about that. Does the deck get destroyed in some match-ups? Absolutely. But that happens to many other decks.

    A bit over a week ago (the tourney I was at) the top 8 had 3 DS decks (2 esper & 1 jund), 1 Tron, 1 Breach Titan (Valakut), 1 Merfolk, 1 Kiki Chord and 1 Affinity.
    The winner was the Affinity player...
    But there you can see the dominance of DS in my meta. xDS is the deck to beat ATM.

    I had the feeling that I could have done much better, if it weren't for all of the mistakes I made. Most of the games I lost were due to my own incompetence, and I have the feeling that if I keep working on my piloting skills with this deck, it can be very powerful.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that this deck is not the easiest to pilot. The decisions we make with the tools we have at our disposal have a big influence on our outcome. This might be obvious for the most, but it's nonetheless not trivial.


    I have to agree with you TugaTog. We are not getting the match up data we are used to and I think it is fooling people into thinking that Death's Shadow is not dominant when in fact it absolutely is. They have a very difficult time beating a resolved Thopter/Sword which is why it is currently the focal point of my build. Between the 4 Foundrys and 3 Bridges I try to just overload the K Commands until I can grind them out. I actually bring in Grafdigger's Cage against them just to shut off Snapcaster Mage re-buying K Commands or Br Force. It doesn't do much but anyway to reduce their interaction with our artifacts is a plus in my book.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Has anyone been considering Opt for this deck? I know the card is not very powerful but it is likely better than Sleight of Hand for us. Normally we are looking for something very specific with our cantrips, therefore only seeing 1 card before making a decisions instead of 2 is less relevant. However the instant speed gives us an extra turn of information from our opponent. In testing I have been wanting to play more cantrips in the deck but the options have not been quite good enough to justify the slots. Going forward I'm going to try a few new things, including Opt. The last couple months have lead to a few conclusions about the deck which have influenced the direction I'm going to be taking.

    - Pentad Prism, although powerful in niche situations I'd prefer not to be playing it. Exactly 1 copy in your opening hand is usually great but you never want to see another one. It's not a card you will be retrieving with Whir and does little to nothing when draw mid-late game. I'm going to cut them for more high impact cards.

    - Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, I was once a big advocate for always play 4. However that was in an environment where he was vulnerable to our opponents strategy. Typically I cast a Tezzeret and win with it, or lose with it in play. Rarely is it removed. Now that we are playing 4x Whir of Invention in a low to the ground strategy we can't justify that many 4+ mana cards.

    - Fatal Push, Previously I wanted to play zero copies of this card. And honestly I still want to play zero copies of this card. However I have found it important to remove niche creatures that can quickly ruin our day. Kataki, Thalia, Scooze, Walking Balista, etc. That being said I want to play as few as possible in game one.

    - Crucible of Worlds, Eldrazi Tron and Valakut decks are omnipresent. Without any meaningful interaction both of these match ups are very difficult. I sacrifice very little to run 1 Expedition Map, 1 Crucible of Worlds and 1 Ghost Quarter in the deck. This gives us some game 1 and significantly better games 2-3 when we can bored in additional disruptive lands.

    - Opt, Cantrips have been the best feeling cards in the deck (Serum Visions). Smoothing out early land drops and filtering for gas in the late game has been instrumental to my recent success with the deck and I would like to play 2-3 more of this effect.

    - A cohesive 75. I am regularly finding that I want to board in a handful of cards but only remove half as many. In addition to that I want to remove artifacts for non-artifacts and you simply can't do that and allow Whir and Tezzeret to be effective. I'd rather board fewer powerful cards than a wide array of medium cards due to the nature of the deck not wanting to cut any cards from the initial 60.

    My current list:



    As you can see I am playing 61 cards. Normally when I see a deck with 61 cards I immediately dismiss the deck as a dumpster fire and move on with my life. Therefore I need to cut 1 card. Suggestions welcomed! It is Modern season and I am looking to get out and crush some PPTQ's!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Has anyone been considering Opt for this deck? I know the card is not very powerful but it is likely better than Sleight of Hand for us. Normally we are looking for something very specific with our cantrips, therefore only seeing 1 card before making a decisions instead of 2 is less relevant. However the instant speed gives us an extra turn of information from our opponent. In testing I have been wanting to play more cantrips in the deck but the options have not been quite good enough to justify the slots. Going forward I'm going to try a few new things, including Opt. The last couple months have lead to a few conclusions about the deck which have influenced the direction I'm going to be taking.

    - Pentad Prism, although powerful in niche situations I'd prefer not to be playing it. Exactly 1 copy in your opening hand is usually great but you never want to see another one. It's not a card you will be retrieving with Whir and does little to nothing when draw mid-late game. I'm going to cut them for more high impact cards.

    - Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, I was once a big advocate for always play 4. However that was in an environment where he was vulnerable to our opponents strategy. Typically I cast a Tezzeret and win with it, or lose with it in play. Rarely is it removed. Now that we are playing 4x Whir of Invention in a low to the ground strategy we can't justify that many 4+ mana cards.

    - Fatal Push, Previously I wanted to play zero copies of this card. And honestly I still want to play zero copies of this card. However I have found it important to remove niche creatures that can quickly ruin our day. Kataki, Thalia, Scooze, Walking Balista, etc. That being said I want to play as few as possible in game one.

    - Crucible of Worlds, Eldrazi Tron and Valakut decks are omnipresent. Without any meaningful interaction both of these match ups are very difficult. I sacrifice very little to run 1 Expedition Map, 1 Crucible of Worlds and 1 Ghost Quarter in the deck. This gives us some game 1 and significantly better games 2-3 when we can bored in additional disruptive lands.

    - Opt, Cantrips have been the best feeling cards in the deck (Serum Visions). Smoothing out early land drops and filtering for gas in the late game has been instrumental to my recent success with the deck and I would like to play 2-3 more of this effect.

    - A cohesive 75. I am regularly finding that I want to board in a handful of cards but only remove half as many. In addition to that I want to remove artifacts for non-artifacts and you simply can't do that and allow Whir and Tezzeret to be effective. I'd rather board fewer powerful cards than a wide array of medium cards due to the nature of the deck not wanting to cut any cards from the initial 60.

    My current list:



    As you can see I am playing 61 cards. Normally when I see a deck with 61 cards I immediately dismiss the deck as a dumpster fire and move on with my life. Therefore I need to cut 1 card. Suggestions welcomed! It is Modern season and I am looking to get out and crush some PPTQ's!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Updated the primer!

    Update includes:

    Jon Gross MTGO Competeive League Video!

    NumontGaming game play video!

    How to play against Grixis Death's Shadow video!

    Altered some card explanations and removed others. (Expanded on the new uses of Mishra's Bauble and Time Seive. Removed Ashiok Nightmare Weaver.)

    Removed most instances of Whir of Invention builds versus Non-Whir builds since 90%+ of us are now focusing on Whir of Invention.

    Did I miss anything? Drop a message here or even better PM me and I'll see about updating it a little further!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Quote from radouf »
    Regarding the Abzan player going infinite life with Finks + Seer + Vizier, do we have a judge ruling on our combo + Sieve + Academy ruins overpowering it?

    As in we can theoretically take actual infinite turns putting back on top an artifact we sacrifice to foundry, eventually remove their combo, and Tezz or Thopter beat them down from a bajillion to zero because theoretical infinite turns.


    Since there are variables involved with disrupting their combo (finding your removal, successfully casting it and permanently ending the combo) a judge would make you play it out long enough to disrupt their combo. Similar to how valakut players and Ad Nausem players when asked to play out their combo they must.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    [quote from="jonnyreco »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/773189-ubx-tezzeret-agent-of-bolas-control?comment=1200"]Thoughts on trash to treasure?? [/quote

    Card is super cool but none of us have found the perfect thing to do with it yet. I like the idea of using it with Sundering Titan because you get a big dude, a great ETB effect and once you have him in play you can sacrifice him to trash for treasure and bring him back getting his trigger 2 times decimating your opponents lands.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @thenobodys: All I am trying to suggest is that once you have cut Tezzeret from the deck you are free to do a lot of different things, including playing a lot fewer artifacts in your deck and becoming less all in on artifacts. Your deck could look something like this:

    4/3 Thopter/Sword
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    1 Welding Jar
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Whir of Invention
    4 Serum Visions
    21 Lands
    16 Other Cards

    You could play ~15 artifacts instead of 22+. Now you have 16 cards to take the deck in any direction you want. You don't even have to be in black anymore, you could be UW.

    Simply taking the Tezzerets out is not correct unless you radically change the rest of the deck. And you can do that, in fact I encourage that kind of thinking because that's how decks evolve in Modern.

    Handicapping yourself with a bunch of artifacts for a sideboard Tezzeret game plan is likely less powerful than a main deck Tezzeret plan or a deck without Tezzeret at all.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Cutting Tezzeret is a terrible idea. Honestly, I don't even want to go into a debate about it because I think there is zero merit to debating it. If you are playing enough artifacts for Whir of Invention to be better than Fabricate than you should also be playing Tezzeret. If you are playing neither of these cards than you are constructing a completely different deck than what is being construed here.

    Saying Tezzeret is not needed game 1 is absurd. You are not even playing him for either of us his minus abilities. Like any planeswalker those are just bonuses. You are playing him as a repeatable source of card advantage that digs for the combo quickly. Saying you don't need Tezzeret because you have the combo is illogical because Tezzeret only further increases the likelihood of being able to find your combo pieces.

    If you wanted to be playing just turbo thopter/sword than you should be on a Gifts Ungiven deck that can effectively "1 card combo" with ways to stay alive and dig to Gifts.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Hey guys, I have been away from Modern and Tezzerator as of late and I was hoping someone could catch me up to speed on what the hot new tech is and the current discussion points. Last I played Deaths Shadow was EVERYWHERE but it looks like that has calmed down some.

    Now that we are going to have less reliable MTGO data our work is going to be cut out for us. Tezzerator is very much a meta deck and it is going to be increasingly difficult to build/play when we have an unreliable metagame picture. Any thoughts going forward on more objectively powerful builds with most silver bullets sideboard because of this? Or perhaps having a more focused/less flexible kit game 1 in an effort to just combo as often as possible.

    Current Build:



    Build going forward:



    Thoughts?
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Quote from boomforest »
    I think I may move the abrupts to the main, which would buy me a few spots. Then I'm just going all in on beating big mana with my side. Thinking something like

    3 Ceremonious Rejection
    3 Disdainful Stroke
    2 Negate
    2 Ghost Quarter
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Witchbane Orb
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Collective Brutality (for burn)

    Is that leaning too hard? I'm just sick of seeing first turn tron land and feeling like my odds of match win are 20%

    (my meta feels like 50% tron)


    You are much better off giving up that match.

    Also, are you playing against Eldrazi Tron or classic GR Tron? Elrazi Tron is very beatable since Ensnaring Bridge can buy us a ton of time and limit the outs our opponent has to Karn and Walking Ballista. Sideboard an extra needle or two should be plenty to sway this match.

    GR tron. Unwinnable even with 15 more cards, and now you ruined your match up against everyone else.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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