As an Esper Control player; Does anyone have an idea what the general game plan is to win vs Jeskai Superfriends? I find this matchup extremely hard as we only have so many answers for their load of walkers. The only basic thing is Contempt which comes in from turn 4 onwards, and that's where they often already have 1 resolved 3-mana walker. Cast Down doesn't work against the Sarkhan plus ability as they're still legendary. So it's basically just Contempt and Mortify. With 3-Feri in play this is just hell. Do we need to load up on The Elderspell? Any other thoughts?
So with this extremely badly named deck, you hope to win by gaining a zillion life and eventually decking your opponent? So if your opponents just does his thing, takes time during their turn or any other decision, you draw every single round placing you halfway on the ladder? I don't think that's something you should be aiming at unless you expect everyone to scoop for no reason.
I think a mono blue version of the deck is very much possible. You can protect yourself using the new wall that also mills and triggers Drowned Secrets. I don't think the tap-4-guys is playable. There's now even a counter spell that mills 3. Nuts!
Don't just drop a list and expect comments. Why is this a good list, better than others around, or why do you like it, what do you want to discuss, etc.?
Top 8-ed a Modern event last weekend playing UB Mill for the first time. It felt awesome. Unfortunately lost the first top8 match due to a greedy scry and not hitting a 3rd land to land bridge on time. It was against UR Phoenix which really feels like a bye. My rounds 1 and 2 were against UR Phoenix, won both 2-0. Apparently they don't like it when you surgical their threats >:)
I'll be playing Mill again coming Sunday on another Modern event, hope it will go just as well.
I dug up my old Temur Wurm list and made a old -> new list for the current standard format, not set in stone so we can take the changes from there. I just kept everything as is, so removal for removal, ramp for ramp, same cmc where possible.
The wurm replaced by another wurm for the sake of lifegain and potentially draw a card.
Removal kept as is, 5 spot removal, 4 sweepers. We don't need to worry about indestructible atm.
The Mind and Memory halves were used to draw cards, we're down in card draw a bit (8 -> 4), but can regain it with Chemister's Insight.
The compass is either ramp or to keep a attacker from coming at you. It does serious work keeping big stuff (or small stuff) at bay.
Thunderherd Migration belongs in the RG ramp deck that sees play now, not in the Wurm deck. In the RG Dino's list I can see it work perfectly fine.
I agree on March of the Multitudes, I ran it last week, see my list. It comes out of nowhere and we can easily cast it for X=7 or higher assuming 10 mana. I think my posted SB is quite OK actually, with Shalai in the back of mind.
@Controlfreakk; River’s Rebuke is awesome. It buys time when needed or just simply clears the board of literally everything, not to even speak of getting enemy tokens of the board forever. Most of the time you bounce so many things they can’t recast in a single turn because of the combined cmc, and from there you can start to get ahead.
I’ve played the compass last season in Temur Wurm and it rocked. I used it mostly to prevent a creature from attacking and you’re up to 7 lands in no time, and when it flips you get an extra land.
The only downside now compared to them is now we cast Circuitous Route to get 2 lands and basically skip a turn and also being defenseless. Last season you played Hour of Promise that also found 2 land, but then also left behind 2 blockers to not leave you open to anything. Should the lack of the 2 blockers be compensated by life gain in the form of Gift of Paradise perhaps? But what to cut? Back in last season I only played 4 Sifter Wurm, other than that just ramp and removal. I did however play 3 compass and 4 Gift of paradise, combined with 7 board wipes in the form of Sweltering Suns and Hour of Devastation.
I think we can get a decent ramp deck online without a doubt, it’s just figuring out what should be in and out, also for colors. Green is obvious, but other than that we have ways to go. For fixing we can play Chromatic Lantern.
Llanowar Elves; not so sure. Elvish Rejuvenator; awesome! Dig 5, find and play a land, leave behind a blocker for just 3 mana. Maybe for that reason skip Llanowar completely and go full on 1-2 cmc removal? Also I think 4 Deafening Clarion is a must, even over Cannonade as red sometimes plays the 1/1 goblins which are pirates as well
Yeah agreed, this list was a first draft and "we'll see how this goes". Well, 0-4 with 1-8 in games made it clear enough hehe. This needs loads of tweaking, e.g. your suggestion of Chromatic Lantern among others. There's currently a lot of highcost do-nothing in the deck I should get rid off.
The lifegain seems to really help this deck out. Have you considered the Ajani's Pridemate package? I think I recall the deck that you are being inspired from and he was running a pridemate package so that he had some lifegain synergies and a secondary win condition.
Weight of Memory may be a good card to consider as a mill finisher too because of the Psychic Corrosion synergy. Seal away also seems like really good removal that you are currently passing up. Bounce is nice but getting rid of something if they can't answer enchantments seems worthy of a spot, sideboard for game two if it doesn't work in the matchup but it should see success against midrange.
Exactly, I think we’ve been watching the same stream. The guy indeed played the 1/1 Leonin cat, healing hawk, pridemate and that gain life pay 1 draw a card enchantment, also seemed very nice. That list made me enthousiastic but I currently lack the cards for that list unfortunately.
I beg to differ actually. Instead of 1 Enchantment there's now 2, 1 of which is 1 CMC less even. It triggers on every blue spell cast, regardless of being countered as it's a cast trigger. Next to Psychic Corrosion I think Mill is definitely a possiblity. Having both in play and casting something like Radical Idea will Mill for 4. The draw engine is quite real. You can keep stalling the board with bounces or lifegain until you can sweep the board while milling all the time.
Not sure why but Mill decks always draw my attention. I like to play non-tier decks in tier-deck environments and win games simply by playing a decent deck out of tier-range but that still has high potential in winning games, especially because your opponent's side board is not suited to do anything about your strategy.
But luckily with GRN (and M19) new tools for Mill decks have become available in the form off Drowned Secrets, Psychic Corrosion and perhaps even Patient Rebuilding. This combination can very well get the Mill train going. This makes me very exciting to play Mill in the new Standard format.
The possibilities to me are Mono U, UW or UB, depending on what you personal favor is. I saw the UW stream on Twitch (can't remember who it was) and that looked solid to me. It combines the Mill from Blue together with counters, tempo, lifegain and removal. The combination of Psychic Corrosion and Revitalize makes you survive aggro for a bit while milling, next to the usual ways of Milling by playing blue spells and/or drawing cards. If you expect a ton of aggro you can even buy more turns by playing Befuddle and again Mill your opponent.
Based on the tools provided, this is the current list I drafted. I personally think Patient Rebuilding is a little too sweet for it's manacost, I can however see it work combined with Psychic Corrosion or perhaps even Nexus of Fate. The creatures I play are just to keep yourself from dying by chumping with Hunted Witness + its token and a 0/5 Wall of Mist for 2.
Speaking of Knight of Autumn, I considered maindecking it over Thrashing Brontodon but I'm not convinced yet.
The dino is a better blocker and having the option to remove an artifact/enchantment at will (with a mana open) instead of having to time its EtB ability also seems better.
I've also added copies of Shalai and The Immortal Sun to the SB taking out Chandra which is probably just a win-more card.
Another potentially good finisher I consider for the deck is March of the Multitudes which can work well even without convoke to generate a big board with all the mana this deck can sink into it.
Hi,
Nice to see a fellow ramp player. Last season I also played ramp (Temur Wurm), insanely fun deck to play. I was afraid Ramp would be lost after rotation, but it turns out we got some nice tools in return making it still very viable.
This is the list I currently play in MTG Arena and will be taking to my LGS tomorrow. I must say it feels solid, I'm playing a lot of big mana value, but there's room for improvement. Nonetheless I've won several games either by gaining enough life with Tatyova and/or Pelakka Wurm to takeover the game and win, or just keep having wipes + blockers into ramp so that I can Banefire for lethal. The very fast decks are difficult, and mono green lists that ramp into Ghalta/Gigantosaur. My only out there is Justice Strike.
I was just thinking.. one of my friends also made the suggestion. Would a singleton Nexus of Fate fit the deck?
It’s not that I have a specific thing I’d like to know more about. It’s just those posts from your end that show the amount of work and effort that has gone into it and in much detail that I’m just reading it almost with an open mouth thinking “wow” all the time. It’s really good stuff!
Thanks elconquistador1985. Your statistics.. wish I could only think of the ways you work them out. Appreciated. And yes perhaps the shuffling is related, perhaps RNG is just against me, I don't know. We'll see how this Saturday's tournament turns out.
Ah R3doxNL, I know who you are then PvA right? We never met but have seen your name pop around every now and then. Perhaps will see you this saturday at the DOS.
Very much liked the list you were playing, especially with the 'hidden helix' tech. I reckon Gonti's gives you a lot of sudden burst damage as I can imagine you pop multiple at once. Did Gonti's do a lot of work in the matches it saw play? Do you have a SB guide to the list?
I'll be playing Mill again coming Sunday on another Modern event, hope it will go just as well.
I'm thinking Crypt Incursion/Ensnaring Bridge/Murderous Cut out, Extirpate/IoK/Surgical in?
I dug up my old Temur Wurm list and made a old -> new list for the current standard format, not set in stone so we can take the changes from there. I just kept everything as is, so removal for removal, ramp for ramp, same cmc where possible.
Creatures:
4 Sifter Wurm -> 4 Pelakka Wurm
Spells:
2 Banefire -> 2 Banefire
2 Magma Spray -> 2 Shivan Fire
3 Abrade -> 3 Lightning Strike
4 Grow from the Ashes -> 4 Grow from the Ashes
4 Hour of Devastation -> 2 Cleansing Nova & 2 Star of Extinction
4 Hour of Promise -> 4 Elvish Rejuvenator / 4 Gift of Paradise
4 Spring // Mind -> 2 Llanowar Elves & 2 Ciruitous Route
4 Commit // Memory -> 4 Chemister's insight
Artifacts:
3 Thaumatic Compass -> 3 Thaumatic Compass
The wurm replaced by another wurm for the sake of lifegain and potentially draw a card.
Removal kept as is, 5 spot removal, 4 sweepers. We don't need to worry about indestructible atm.
The Mind and Memory halves were used to draw cards, we're down in card draw a bit (8 -> 4), but can regain it with Chemister's Insight.
The compass is either ramp or to keep a attacker from coming at you. It does serious work keeping big stuff (or small stuff) at bay.
Thunderherd Migration belongs in the RG ramp deck that sees play now, not in the Wurm deck. In the RG Dino's list I can see it work perfectly fine.
I agree on March of the Multitudes, I ran it last week, see my list. It comes out of nowhere and we can easily cast it for X=7 or higher assuming 10 mana. I think my posted SB is quite OK actually, with Shalai in the back of mind.
Cheers,
DC
@Controlfreakk; River’s Rebuke is awesome. It buys time when needed or just simply clears the board of literally everything, not to even speak of getting enemy tokens of the board forever. Most of the time you bounce so many things they can’t recast in a single turn because of the combined cmc, and from there you can start to get ahead.
I’ve played the compass last season in Temur Wurm and it rocked. I used it mostly to prevent a creature from attacking and you’re up to 7 lands in no time, and when it flips you get an extra land.
The only downside now compared to them is now we cast Circuitous Route to get 2 lands and basically skip a turn and also being defenseless. Last season you played Hour of Promise that also found 2 land, but then also left behind 2 blockers to not leave you open to anything. Should the lack of the 2 blockers be compensated by life gain in the form of Gift of Paradise perhaps? But what to cut? Back in last season I only played 4 Sifter Wurm, other than that just ramp and removal. I did however play 3 compass and 4 Gift of paradise, combined with 7 board wipes in the form of Sweltering Suns and Hour of Devastation.
I think we can get a decent ramp deck online without a doubt, it’s just figuring out what should be in and out, also for colors. Green is obvious, but other than that we have ways to go. For fixing we can play Chromatic Lantern.
Llanowar Elves; not so sure. Elvish Rejuvenator; awesome! Dig 5, find and play a land, leave behind a blocker for just 3 mana. Maybe for that reason skip Llanowar completely and go full on 1-2 cmc removal? Also I think 4 Deafening Clarion is a must, even over Cannonade as red sometimes plays the 1/1 goblins which are pirates as well
Cheers
DC
Exactly, I think we’ve been watching the same stream. The guy indeed played the 1/1 Leonin cat, healing hawk, pridemate and that gain life pay 1 draw a card enchantment, also seemed very nice. That list made me enthousiastic but I currently lack the cards for that list unfortunately.
Not sure why but Mill decks always draw my attention. I like to play non-tier decks in tier-deck environments and win games simply by playing a decent deck out of tier-range but that still has high potential in winning games, especially because your opponent's side board is not suited to do anything about your strategy.
We lost Fraying Sanity/Winds of Rebuke/Compelling Argument with Standard's rotation.
But luckily with GRN (and M19) new tools for Mill decks have become available in the form off Drowned Secrets, Psychic Corrosion and perhaps even Patient Rebuilding. This combination can very well get the Mill train going. This makes me very exciting to play Mill in the new Standard format.
The possibilities to me are Mono U, UW or UB, depending on what you personal favor is. I saw the UW stream on Twitch (can't remember who it was) and that looked solid to me. It combines the Mill from Blue together with counters, tempo, lifegain and removal. The combination of Psychic Corrosion and Revitalize makes you survive aggro for a bit while milling, next to the usual ways of Milling by playing blue spells and/or drawing cards. If you expect a ton of aggro you can even buy more turns by playing Befuddle and again Mill your opponent.
Based on the tools provided, this is the current list I drafted. I personally think Patient Rebuilding is a little too sweet for it's manacost, I can however see it work combined with Psychic Corrosion or perhaps even Nexus of Fate. The creatures I play are just to keep yourself from dying by chumping with Hunted Witness + its token and a 0/5 Wall of Mist for 2.
3x Hunted Witness
4x Wall of Mist
Instant - 20
2x Blink of an Eye
2x Chemister's Insight
2x Disdainful Stroke
4x Radical Idea
4x Revitalize
2x Settle the Wreckage
1x Sinister Sabotage
3x Unexplained Disappearance
4x Drowned Secrets
3x Psychic Corrosion
Sorcery - 2
2x Cleansing Nova
Planeswalker - 2
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Land - 22
4x Glacial Fortress
8x Island
2x Memorial to Genius
8x Plains
Up for discussion, let's share thoughts because I know there are more players here that are into Mill decks.
Cheers,
DC
Nice to see a fellow ramp player. Last season I also played ramp (Temur Wurm), insanely fun deck to play. I was afraid Ramp would be lost after rotation, but it turns out we got some nice tools in return making it still very viable.
This is the list I currently play in MTG Arena and will be taking to my LGS tomorrow. I must say it feels solid, I'm playing a lot of big mana value, but there's room for improvement. Nonetheless I've won several games either by gaining enough life with Tatyova and/or Pelakka Wurm to takeover the game and win, or just keep having wipes + blockers into ramp so that I can Banefire for lethal. The very fast decks are difficult, and mono green lists that ramp into Ghalta/Gigantosaur. My only out there is Justice Strike.
I was just thinking.. one of my friends also made the suggestion. Would a singleton Nexus of Fate fit the deck?
4x Elvish Rejuvenator
4x Llanowar Elves
1x Meteor Golem
1x Nezahal, Primal Tide
1x Niv-Mizzet, Parun
4x Pelakka Wurm
2x Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1x Verdant Force
Sorceries - 12
2x Banefire
2x Circuitous Route
3x Deafening Clarion
4x Grow from the Ashes
1x River's Rebuke
1x Chemister's Insight
1x Justice Strike
3x Shivan Fire
Planeswalkers - 1
1x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands - 24
1x Arch of Orazca
6x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
2x Izzet Guildgate
3x Mountain
2x Plains
4x Rootbound Crag
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Steam Vents
2x Carnage Tyrant
2x Fiery Cannonade
1x Inescapable Blaze
1x Knight of Autumn
2x Lyra Dawnbringer
1x March of the Multitudes
3x Negate
2x Sentinel Totem
1x Shivan Fire
Ah R3doxNL, I know who you are then
Very much liked the list you were playing, especially with the 'hidden helix' tech. I reckon Gonti's gives you a lot of sudden burst damage as I can imagine you pop multiple at once. Did Gonti's do a lot of work in the matches it saw play? Do you have a SB guide to the list?
Cheers,
DC