I've been trying one SfA main. I feel the same as Annihilator, it's not particularly good but we kinda need it because other decks are playing it and we lose if we don't. In legacy I actually use it as a SB card, but I don't feel I have enough room for that in modern, so I've been trying the one-of. Zero might actually be the right number though, since on the MUs we want it usually there are fields or trophies lying around. I am still on the 4 charm 3/4 TT plan for esper too.
I was playing UW, but since I got to the US I played some FNMs and in my area control/combo are very present.. I've played only one creature MU on the last 7 games I did here, so I'll take esper again to this week's FNM and see how it goes - it should be a good metagame for it. Of course, we all know that this week I'll only get good UW MUs and regret everything, but that's how it goes.
Have you guys been testing terminus?
I think UW opt/think twice with terminus is pretty strong right now... it actually is quite reliable, and terminus is just too powerfull (either for making you able to wipe the board and do some proactive threat on the same turn, or for dealing with threats pretty much permanently (no "die" trigger, no GY shaenigans, just a clean board)).
I've been having trouble adjust an esper shell to it.. I mean, if our plan is to use PWs (jace and teferi) to gain advantage and close the game, there's no reason to be draw-go, and, even though I love esper charm, I'm not able to justify it over a cleaner mana base and PW tap out strategy lately...
The control mirrors get worse (at least from how I was used to playing them with esper) - having no real inevitability and no way of discarding. But all other MUs look good, even combo (probably same as esper).
I would love to hear your input.
On a side note, I'll be living on the US for three months as of October. I will be in St Paul/MN. If any of you know a good store there, please let me know! And if by any chance any of the regulars are from the area, I'd love to meet you to play some matches too.
Mardu Pyro feels like Jund, but lingering souls and blood moon make things a little awkward.
I fear an unanswered Bob much more than an unanswered Pyromancer... but turn 3 they have Moon and Lili, which they'll probably stick after discard spells...
Using five early interactions (2LK, 1 Negate, 2 seize) makes me a little more comfortable, but not nearly enough. After you fetch all your basics blood moon isn't much of a problem anymore.
Aside from that, it's playing tight... faithless looting is broken, so they see a lot of cards. One or two Revelers will probably resolve, and that's ok.
After flipping azcanta, untapping with Jace, resolving Rev, resolving a large secure, game's probably over...
I don't see many tricks or tips to the MU - draw cards (think twice still a beast), fetch basics, hope to hit one or two sweepers, untap with a PW/azcanta.
I sided in Timely, Elspeth (which won me G2), wrath of god, EE, 2x Surgical (don't know if it's correct, but I sided out LK/negate/seize, so), celestial purge, sorcerous spyglass (i'd rather have a proactive way to answer Lili than counters).
Just a quick report. Went undefeated on Modern side events at GP Sâo Paulo (that sounds much but it was actually only 5 matches). Two matches won 1-0 time (I never play for that to happen, but those were some grindy matches.)
Never got to play against control, which was what I wanted to test against and what I still don't know if the configuration of my deck is good enough.
So, my SB is a train wreck but I like it - I think Baneslayer is not as good anymore, with PWs helping us close the game, timely reinforcements and people leaving removal, I think our plan A is good enough.
I was actually with 2 SfA on the side and zero main (lending ideas from my legacy deck). But I ended up with one main and zero side... I still think think twice is gas on this deck. SfA is very good, and I have troubles not playing it.. the ceiling is too high, but I dislike tapping out for it or having two early in my hand.
3 Snapcaster is gas - they give you too many outs during Jace brainstorm.
I still play 1 secure, it's a flexible all around card, I still think it deserves the slot.
I would like one more slot for the fourth cryptic, but I don't know what to cut (maybe the azcanta).
1 timely is gas. Without Rev to help stabilize life, it works wonder.
MUs were:
Double up tournament (Mardu Pyro, Eldratron, ID)
Normal tournament (Humans, Storm, KCI)
All MUs seemed good, the storm player wasn't very good. Eldratron and KCI went to time, with me winning 1-0 each.
By Baneslayer being an open secret you mean it's something people are expecting?
I usually bring Baneslayer against creatures.dec, but I've been doing it less and less.
I still like to use at least one "wincon" at insta speed - either secure or sphinx's... so I can bait counter EoT and slam a PW easier on my main.... but that might be just a fear on my part.
Did you play 2 thoughtseize main? I'm to and fro with those...
I'll play side events at GP Sao Paulo this weekend, and if anything good comes out of it I'll tell you guys.
For those feeling the need of a "catch all" (well, per our usual deck construction, the only things we can't handle well after they hit the board are artifact and PWs), I suggest Cast Out - the flash, cycling and invulnerability to Abrupt Decay surpass the mass exile of Detention Sphere, imo.
I've played with one main for a long time, and really liked it. Now I'm going for a slightly different list and cut it, but I do like the card.
I only managed to catch the first league. IMO Jim punted quite a few. In the robots match he didn't make path snap path an option, and when he wasn't punished by drawing LK, he didn't counter the ravager. I think most of us would've won the jeskai MU, not only counting the spell snare on the negate, but also other lines.
That being said, I agree that the list feels clunky. I've been feeling the same way with 25 lands, azcanta, leyline and Jace.
I actually feel that now, more than before, we need cantrips. And I never really liked SV.
I played a little with Gideon otT, not enough to tell if it's good, but it wasn't bad. A 3 Mana Planeswalker that can be aggressive could be a thing now, alongside with Jace/Teferi.. more innovation is yet needed I feel.
FWIW, I don't believe it's correct to side out all the SVs against scapeshift - even though G1 it's one of your worst cards, G2/G3 it's not because they usually side in more creatures (courser, baloths, pia and kiran, random stuff). I used to leave at least two, now I tend to leave three.
Bad beats will be bad beats, but it's like Amalek0 said, there's no room for error, on pretty much all your decisions.
I feel the same way, Amalek0.
I went to a 2k open with your list this last weekend - my results were bad (1-1-2), but my both my first loss and the tie were definitely my mistakes (of course I only realized that the morning after), the second loss I didn't play magic, which happens from time to time (G1 stayed on two lands for 7 turns, G2 mulligan to five, hit my third land drop when OPP hits his 7th).
The real thing is that this deck is unforgivable. One misstep and it's game. My tie was against a blue moon breach player - I won G1 with Jace ultimate. G2 I believe my opponent made a lot of mistakes, which led me to a favorable condition. But on the last 5 turns he managed to top deck three breaches, having the last one resolving (turn 5), putting emrakul into play, I blessed allianced it, and with his last card and last land up, he dispelled my BA, getting the draw.
What I realized later is that I should've let the breach on the last turn resolve, and used CC to tap... since I didn't train this MU, only realized this the morning after - I'm bad.
Well, that was a long story to say: I think the list is good, I will train it more, and I agree with how you see the deck - I even play NoSB on the SB, to lock some decks out without fearing the PtE on our baneslayer.
Well, let's keep grinding, I think we have something, we just gotta play real good
@Rabbit - do you have a list you've been testing? I've been playing Amalek0's, and everything feels good, except (for me) the amount of "bad" starting hands... I have no problem mulling, but without cantrips or TTs, I've been feeling that there are too many "bad" hands... I pretty much never keep one landers, and two landers are already iffy to me... and without cheap cantrips (azcanta is ok, but it being sorcery speed you get locked on casting it and trying to find lands), this is my only problem with it so far.
I've tried jamming 2 SVs replacing the dimir charm and timely (yeah, I'm a pro deck builder), and it helps, but I still don't know if it's good enough.
@Stiggy
Good report! 3-2 is rough, but that wasn't bad at all.
These are my opinions, of course:
1) yeah, I wouldn't bring surgicals vs eldrazi tron. I wouldn't even fight them on the manabase side (of course, opportunistic fields of ruin might buy you time, but I think cavern is the land to deal with), they are the weaker of the tron AND the eldrazi decks (bant has disappeared, but I always thought they were stronger against us). Surgical vs classic tron has helped me, but it's usually more because my MD sucks than surgical is actually really good... I haven't tested spyglass yet (but I have played some pithing needle in the past), and I believe it's fine if you have things to cut, but I wouldn't priotitize it.
2) I wouldn't bring Baneslayer vs Jund, unless time was an issue, you really don't need it. Usually in the BGx MUs, you want cards that affect the board rather than the stack, that's why it's always hard to cut celestial purge from the sideboard, even though it's kinda narrow. BBE is a pain, I'm having trouble dealing with it too... I always sided out most of the sweepers vs Jund (left more vs abzan), but that might be wrong now... I don't know yet.
I've been testing a very similar build, Amalek0, but only on xmage so far, which hasn't been good testing because it's either bad people trying to play Jace decks or people playing decks that beat Jace decks....
Anyway, main differences were manabase (but I kinda like yours better), and -1 snapcaster -1 Lingering Souls +2 LKs. Also I was also still on the full set of esper charms. I like the planeswalker package, but BBE is really good against.. while not being taken by inquisition.
I still don't like lingering souls, but I guess it's more of an adaptation period.
I will start posting test results when paper events come live...
I was playing UW, but since I got to the US I played some FNMs and in my area control/combo are very present.. I've played only one creature MU on the last 7 games I did here, so I'll take esper again to this week's FNM and see how it goes - it should be a good metagame for it. Of course, we all know that this week I'll only get good UW MUs and regret everything, but that's how it goes.
I think UW opt/think twice with terminus is pretty strong right now... it actually is quite reliable, and terminus is just too powerfull (either for making you able to wipe the board and do some proactive threat on the same turn, or for dealing with threats pretty much permanently (no "die" trigger, no GY shaenigans, just a clean board)).
I've been having trouble adjust an esper shell to it.. I mean, if our plan is to use PWs (jace and teferi) to gain advantage and close the game, there's no reason to be draw-go, and, even though I love esper charm, I'm not able to justify it over a cleaner mana base and PW tap out strategy lately...
The control mirrors get worse (at least from how I was used to playing them with esper) - having no real inevitability and no way of discarding. But all other MUs look good, even combo (probably same as esper).
I would love to hear your input.
On a side note, I'll be living on the US for three months as of October. I will be in St Paul/MN. If any of you know a good store there, please let me know! And if by any chance any of the regulars are from the area, I'd love to meet you to play some matches too.
Cheers.
I fear an unanswered Bob much more than an unanswered Pyromancer... but turn 3 they have Moon and Lili, which they'll probably stick after discard spells...
Using five early interactions (2LK, 1 Negate, 2 seize) makes me a little more comfortable, but not nearly enough. After you fetch all your basics blood moon isn't much of a problem anymore.
Aside from that, it's playing tight... faithless looting is broken, so they see a lot of cards. One or two Revelers will probably resolve, and that's ok.
After flipping azcanta, untapping with Jace, resolving Rev, resolving a large secure, game's probably over...
I don't see many tricks or tips to the MU - draw cards (think twice still a beast), fetch basics, hope to hit one or two sweepers, untap with a PW/azcanta.
I sided in Timely, Elspeth (which won me G2), wrath of god, EE, 2x Surgical (don't know if it's correct, but I sided out LK/negate/seize, so), celestial purge, sorcerous spyglass (i'd rather have a proactive way to answer Lili than counters).
Never got to play against control, which was what I wanted to test against and what I still don't know if the configuration of my deck is good enough.
List was:
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Field of Ruin
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
2 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
3 Think Twice
1 Search For Azcanta
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
4 Esper Charm
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Settle The Wreckage
3 Cryptic Command
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Celestial Purge
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Runed Halo
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Disenchant
1 Wrath of God
1 Engineered Explosives
So, my SB is a train wreck but I like it - I think Baneslayer is not as good anymore, with PWs helping us close the game, timely reinforcements and people leaving removal, I think our plan A is good enough.
I was actually with 2 SfA on the side and zero main (lending ideas from my legacy deck). But I ended up with one main and zero side... I still think think twice is gas on this deck. SfA is very good, and I have troubles not playing it.. the ceiling is too high, but I dislike tapping out for it or having two early in my hand.
3 Snapcaster is gas - they give you too many outs during Jace brainstorm.
I still play 1 secure, it's a flexible all around card, I still think it deserves the slot.
I would like one more slot for the fourth cryptic, but I don't know what to cut (maybe the azcanta).
1 timely is gas. Without Rev to help stabilize life, it works wonder.
MUs were:
Double up tournament (Mardu Pyro, Eldratron, ID)
Normal tournament (Humans, Storm, KCI)
All MUs seemed good, the storm player wasn't very good. Eldratron and KCI went to time, with me winning 1-0 each.
I usually bring Baneslayer against creatures.dec, but I've been doing it less and less.
I still like to use at least one "wincon" at insta speed - either secure or sphinx's... so I can bait counter EoT and slam a PW easier on my main.... but that might be just a fear on my part.
Did you play 2 thoughtseize main? I'm to and fro with those...
I'll play side events at GP Sao Paulo this weekend, and if anything good comes out of it I'll tell you guys.
I've played with one main for a long time, and really liked it. Now I'm going for a slightly different list and cut it, but I do like the card.
That being said, I agree that the list feels clunky. I've been feeling the same way with 25 lands, azcanta, leyline and Jace.
I actually feel that now, more than before, we need cantrips. And I never really liked SV.
I played a little with Gideon otT, not enough to tell if it's good, but it wasn't bad. A 3 Mana Planeswalker that can be aggressive could be a thing now, alongside with Jace/Teferi.. more innovation is yet needed I feel.
Bad beats will be bad beats, but it's like Amalek0 said, there's no room for error, on pretty much all your decisions.
I went to a 2k open with your list this last weekend - my results were bad (1-1-2), but my both my first loss and the tie were definitely my mistakes (of course I only realized that the morning after), the second loss I didn't play magic, which happens from time to time (G1 stayed on two lands for 7 turns, G2 mulligan to five, hit my third land drop when OPP hits his 7th).
The real thing is that this deck is unforgivable. One misstep and it's game. My tie was against a blue moon breach player - I won G1 with Jace ultimate. G2 I believe my opponent made a lot of mistakes, which led me to a favorable condition. But on the last 5 turns he managed to top deck three breaches, having the last one resolving (turn 5), putting emrakul into play, I blessed allianced it, and with his last card and last land up, he dispelled my BA, getting the draw.
What I realized later is that I should've let the breach on the last turn resolve, and used CC to tap... since I didn't train this MU, only realized this the morning after - I'm bad.
Well, that was a long story to say: I think the list is good, I will train it more, and I agree with how you see the deck - I even play NoSB on the SB, to lock some decks out without fearing the PtE on our baneslayer.
Well, let's keep grinding, I think we have something, we just gotta play real good
I've tried jamming 2 SVs replacing the dimir charm and timely (yeah, I'm a pro deck builder), and it helps, but I still don't know if it's good enough.
Anyone else feeling the same? Amalek0?
Good report! 3-2 is rough, but that wasn't bad at all.
These are my opinions, of course:
1) yeah, I wouldn't bring surgicals vs eldrazi tron. I wouldn't even fight them on the manabase side (of course, opportunistic fields of ruin might buy you time, but I think cavern is the land to deal with), they are the weaker of the tron AND the eldrazi decks (bant has disappeared, but I always thought they were stronger against us). Surgical vs classic tron has helped me, but it's usually more because my MD sucks than surgical is actually really good... I haven't tested spyglass yet (but I have played some pithing needle in the past), and I believe it's fine if you have things to cut, but I wouldn't priotitize it.
2) I wouldn't bring Baneslayer vs Jund, unless time was an issue, you really don't need it. Usually in the BGx MUs, you want cards that affect the board rather than the stack, that's why it's always hard to cut celestial purge from the sideboard, even though it's kinda narrow. BBE is a pain, I'm having trouble dealing with it too... I always sided out most of the sweepers vs Jund (left more vs abzan), but that might be wrong now... I don't know yet.
Overall, good games, keep grinding the deck!
Anyway, main differences were manabase (but I kinda like yours better), and -1 snapcaster -1 Lingering Souls +2 LKs. Also I was also still on the full set of esper charms. I like the planeswalker package, but BBE is really good against.. while not being taken by inquisition.
I still don't like lingering souls, but I guess it's more of an adaptation period.
I will start posting test results when paper events come live...