@ContraEgo:
If I would put a Wtalisman I would prefer to put in 4th whir - thing I've been cosidered lately and just going back to 4 whirs... taking out all GEngineer
I've update my list v2.1 to more less o what at first it was recently with GEngineer. so I took out 1.
I play TSieve basically because it is the best way to win 1st games (have a chance) vs TurboTime and Reclamation and the unique reason - by here I play vs some guys with those decks.
I see Ghirapur as a Non Karn target that can kills planeswalkers and by itsef is a threat, It could be Tezz, but Tezz does not kill Karns or Oufes and has more utilities, also beeing an enchantment helps. It is also like the 3rd GBlast...
I played 2 torunmaents and noticed that need to curve better GBlast is both an efective way to deal vs planeswalkers and help in hearly.Tron and Lands destroyed me 1s time... and it was paifull to not to reach to Bridge or not having answers less costly. also didn't have counters..
PPRims really shined 3 times and they were key those... but not sure if better than otehr rocks, but the fact that they provide all colors when running 4 diff. is nice.
@smidondrej
- torpor orb doesnt go wlel with GEngineer and neither Emry and neither Thopter? am I missing something?
- Idon't see a reason to play WWell/Ichor instead of SVisions now no metl craft is needed.
- your deck if Karn then GG even post side - trust me tron lost lattice but not karn
Well,
at the same timeI am happy about this as by here lot of brewers happy with pre oko started to leave...
I don't think MOpal should have been banned and see how mich this hurts the deck...
but happy brewing!
related to that build from smidondre:
- 21 lands and 0 mox opal does not make sense to me even with no good cantrips 1st turn. even +1 mindstone. (mine can be even worse!)
o I really don't know how tostart to also squeeze Moal/lands/ cantrips - my latest iteration just contained even more Serums and likely go back to it.
- long time ago and I agreed finally with nobodys is the no need of ichor well. now even less we have so many costs 2...
- you play green and no lands producing the color - too risky in my op. --> if Oufe or Stony then gg
explanations:
- Ido know that Prism is not a card that is loved, but I feel we've lost a lot of speed and by ar thi card is the one that provide us the most possible speed - apart of mindstone and other rocks - I'vebeen thinking in also Growth but will not work...
- lot of time ago I dont play Ichor and not needed.
- I really love the Engineer - likely 4 is a lot and 4th SVisions is the right move but I just want as many as possible in the board of this...
- not jar - I think between playing >2 copies of the key cards has been a perfect approach - also Enginneers help in here - not needed for 1st games in my opinion - also we have to think that here is no more need to have 3 artifacts.
- no Emry - lately I used to grab EE or MOpals mainly and to get CA with Baubles - now MOpal gone it is even hardest to cast and I just prefer 1 million tinmes an Engineer doing his stuff...
- Veil - I've tried this and is great stuff and is good with mana for 3rd turn Urza under Prism.
- really don't know about side... before I had more anti tron stuff, but I am frightned about fast agro now more than even...
Hi,
wanted to share my latest iteration of the deck from Karn appearence.
I discussed earlier with shock on the decklist, but what everybody seems to agree is in cutting high costs from main.
I started with 1 Minds 1 Wurmcoil 1 titan, now cut the titan, then cut 1 wurmcoil and added 1 relic main and then siwthced it again because hoggak no longer exists, so high costs are low now. (mintaining chalice, EE, snap, WB, full remands, etc.)
also 3 walking main is also an staple - love the card
I think I have moreless my main done - still need to figure out what to do if adding relic to main or not, but now hogak has gone i think wurmcoil will prevail.
there are lots of explnations and options as from Karan appearance lot has been done, I'll share some:
- in the side at first I had silent arbiter - dismissed - does nothing at least for me.
- trini was not in the side - but it is key agains red phenix! thnaks Shok.
- had 1 cage / 1 relic - but cage does not avoid dredge...
- batterskull is great for mana curve.
- thinking in adding Spine , but for the moment 4 bouncers has been fine to handle stony effects.
- still didn't lost to humans and neither my playmate - blast zone is a house.
- still undecided to try bridge - sure shok disagrees in here, but dont know, any other opinion on this? the theory says that bridge is not good in our strategy...
- tried also 1 caverns and added a 3rd talisman but preferred to take it out and add a snow island - not sure on this...
- added also 4th remand
- just remember the last day i faced a control deck with 2 surgicals main - still hogak era - and well he was able to surgical - my Towers, my ballistas, my tectonic edge and also my karns. and I won anyway, Ihad just BZone /OStone / crucible ARuins engine and thats it, really love the deck...
- I really would like to have more dismembers/like in side, but not really needed, I just sometimes add the 4th ballista main or EE or Chalice, and vs control, just 1 relic or even more business like Batterskull
- has anypone though in adding 1 expedition to the side? is it nonsense?
EDIT:
long time ago i tried an iteration with Shoal and just didn't work, I imagine the same with FoN - my opinion is that this does not go with the strategy of the deck - dont want to invest 2 cards in 1 noncreature card and well I am not worried of early non creatures spells, but anyway, not even tested, so can't argue agains this.
opinions?- the curios thing is that I really dont know if the deck gets better with karn or not... but I love playing the card...
Hi,
Old Texx player in here, but wow the deck has changed a lot and I am quite lost...
seems that thenobodys has done a great work with all the new cards printed and created a great iteration of the deck.
I am in the process of buying all those new cards.
thenobodies, do you have some kind of side strategy with that iteration and things that can be done with the cards- just to have a starting point... maybe it would be nice to update the primer and maybe I can contribute with my toughts onece I have a clear path on how to play again the deck...
now that urzasis released everibody seems to play the deck... before I thnk it was also good, but the hell.
1st opinipon: looking at the lists it seems that caverns to artificer would be nice agains control. is decay an option vs stony and green stony with legs? this deck seems to have lot of dependancy of swrds package...
I am a long time UTron player,
since the appearence of Karn, I am realy excited...
I think the list from Shook is likely the logical evolution of the deck - means reducing high costs and introducing cards from side.
the list I am trying is moreless the one from Shok (more repeals, more Talismans, 1 snap, full Karns, B. Zone, no Dismemeber, etc):
but I am playing a full Karn and full dedicated artifacts in side. It is not good but I want to find out how good is Karn in the deck.
just a few questions mainly for Shok if he is by there (sure or others):
a) Why using the Trini in Side, I don't think it has any use and the same purpose is Chalice in side. If yes, please let me know reasons.
b) Why Revoker instead of Spyglass or Needle? likely for those WG Vizier?
c) me and a friend are evaluating the need of Oboro right now - we've included Blast Zone and also T. Edge thus reducing the blue land count and added the 3rd Talisman instead of 2nd Snap. and now that we don't play Mages we don't see much of as a need for the Oboro. Agree?
d) Why Leyline instead of more Tormods/Cage and Relic?
e) Definately No O. Stone in Side? me and a friend think it is one of the cards more frequesntly search for. (I think the most ones are Crucible, Lattice, Ballista and OStone)
f) definately thinking in 2nd Gemstone, bt not sure what to take out...
Thanks in advance, I personally agree mosts of the times with Shoks Lists/changes and his reasonings.
@syunikiso, with new Karn we are in a unexplored territory, you'll likely do better results with old lists if you are used to. I can guarranty that in short term I'll not do good results because of this, but definately Karn is something good for the deck. I am not ccmpletely sure and the fact that reduces our so comprissed side is something I don't like in a deck like tron. I for example am trying a full artifacts side - which is wrong - but I want to see the behaviour of karn and if it is worth its inclusion and at the same time reducing the side. In Legacy in TES I can say 7 slots for Burning Wish worths. But no idea in UTron...
anyway, I always take UTron as a deck I just like to play and never expect to do great results, sometimes I do, but sometimes I just loose miserably (because of *****ty Burn...)
EDIT: I've been thinking in Ensnaring Birdge + Bottled Cloister in side... but not sure if this is ok... by the moment lets see how S.Arbiter works... any idea?
I agree, I was used to win this match up long time ago - I feel anyway that sometimes you are slower and just loose to a CC in resp to activation of EMap or because you don't draw tron lands or OStone/Ugin - I just play 1 each.
I neither play creature removal in base so all comes from side.
I thought EE were good vs UG Vizier... they blow up birds and hirarchs - but maybe it is too slow. which is the reason they are bad?
Is Pierce good vs them? I feel that sometimes they are better because you want to gain tempo maintaining U opened while doing other stuff - condescend on this purpose fails.
is Uba Mask worth the space against control in general?
will this worth the base space?
@boomforest you say it finally does not worth? which is your plan against Control?
the problem I see with this deck is that we have 0 threats agains control - well you can consider Crucible a threat... as I believe it is my main plan... sad. but I'd like to know solid ideas against control and maybe do something with the base. the hell I've been thinking in adding the uncounterable G Trol!
Come on guys - this is the UNIQUE deck we loose to...
EDIT: An improvement - I believe I've made to the deck is changing the fetch lands to just misty rainforest/polluted deltain this order because Glass to flooded or scalding IS a thing vs control. I am now at fetch blue list
Hi,
I've been a long time UTron player, and always used Shooks Decklist, except at first when I miserably lost to Burn and made a full EE / River of Tears approach...
I was used to great records, but the other day - long time I didn't play tron - I faced UG Vizier - a deck I was used to win. and lost as 2nd time to the same player...
NOTES:
I just didn't play karn
this time I opted to not to play the 3rd Spatial Contortion which I likely regret
I still play trinquet and no 2nd wallista
I think I made:
-1 Chalice, -1 Angel, -1 Solemn Simulacrum, -3 Remand = +3 Dismember + 2 Spatial + 1 EE (I have 0 Dismember in base and play already 1 EE in base)
my doubts are: Is Spell Pierce good against UG Vizier? should I take 1 Condescend out? can Surgical be good somehow?
Wait, I really misunderstood Uba, does it read: If the exiled card is not played the exact turn it is exiled then just remains exiled until the end of the game regaardless uba leaves play or not?
yeah I've been thinking in boseiju also! but usually UW decks pack lot of antilands and well the other problematic matchup - blood moon is nonsense... uniquely vs UWR could work...
not sure if Possesed portal would work as it is just expensive (I like the card!)... the problem should be to resolve a whir... which is likely the most in the so few cards they are worry about...
this is likely the thing I miss from other tezz build that has the option of Discard plus threat and thopter inevitability in 1st game.
this deck has just 3 relevant cards vs control which is crucible and spyglass/EE but the last 2 cards are just not a threat...
the problem about silence is that invalidates skite and i hate that. I really would **** to have activated skites/jar options vs disenthant/spheres...
So I am looking at 2 options:
- increase the number of Defense Grid - I'll start on 3 and lets see if 4 are ok. Question: in resp to a spell, If I cast whir to defense is it countered if is my turn? but the problem of defense is again the same - defense in order to counter what? so also increase aether/crucible...
- radically change the manabase to support decay/discard - like UB Tezz because decay to moon/silence/sphere is a good thing! and maybe visions?
EDIT: Saw Uba mask... no sure if Defense is just better...
EDIT 2: any card like Dwarven Blastminer in modern?
Onions?
the deck just plays on its own... I think what Youwillnowexplode states is just true... no elendras no counters, just Spellskites - I also thinking lately the same about Padeem. while the card just is fantastic I think it can be other card like more defense grids or Aether..
the only kind of decks I am having issues with are Control decks - 1st time was Blue moon thats why I changed to the last iteration of Mr Coyle (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27557&iddeck=221253) from there I just switched 1 cascade by 1 spire... nothing else. and the last control game was just UW with spheres / cryptics / counters / disenchant from side and silence - the guy even played Espercharm which destroys my Aether grids...
how the hell do you win vs this strategy? I mean you just play proactively and land ***** of cards and give the opp. the option to win you via snap??
I've been thinking in just try to add space to play more Defense grids but I really would like to have anti stony in the form of decay - sure sometimes just Aether wins you the game but others just suck. do you leave Chalices?
please I'd like to have other opinons on this - I am trying to figure ut some kind of approach vs this...
Hi, I lost very very hard to a Blue Moon Deck...
I think 1st game is one of the few decks you loose miserably to...
on the other side 2nd game the cards I brought in were Elendra - which was just too slow and defense grid which was good... the bad thing is that I sided out an opal when I shouldn't have.
I'll likely try metallic rebuke as it is a slow mana cost. but vs thse matc ups I just miss the manabase from Tezz, those IoK/T.S and the inevitability from thopter...
I have to say it is a great idea!
I feel also this deck needs cards like Glen Elendra / Null Breach / Meddling mage / nevermore / etc.
My next testing card. thanks!
But not sure if Glen could be better as they fit a similar roles...
my first insight could be:
Glen is better than Declaration vs jund
Declaration seems better at entering early to protect other silver bullets coming later
Declaration is decay meal
Sure Glen is path/Bolt/Push meal that this will occur not much often
beeing a 2 mana fights vs Chalice at 2
Declaration is just less polivalent
...
maybe just will play a mix of MM/Spellskite...
well I love this deck... I evolved from those *****ty UB Tezz to the most exciting deck I've played ever in Modern... but my testing is slow because of time so all i can say is that I get more and more stability at playing it and sure! it is done at my taste...
I love that Possesed Portal...
@Aretherk:
I don't think so.
you play 4 Tolaria for Tormods and Tormods is infenitely better than bojuka because: a) it can be played the same turn you fetch with tolaria b) is an artifact count for Opal c) can be fetched by Inventors and d) can be recurred by ARuins.
I believe Glen Elendra seems okish but I recognice I am in the learn curve with this deck... Tezz/GRindfather/Whir Deck I''d say...
@EDIT: boomforest:
Valakut is solved by Witchbane first game uniquely.
2nd games Drusge are a *****. so chalice on 2 is a priority but sometimes slow. Elendra is a nice puzzle vs this deck. but even I side in Elendra I also overload on Jars and Spellskites...
Tron is super easy with no Damping side even if you play the Ghost quarter version - I am still on this.
If I would put a Wtalisman I would prefer to put in 4th whir - thing I've been cosidered lately and just going back to 4 whirs... taking out all GEngineer
I've update my list v2.1 to more less o what at first it was recently with GEngineer. so I took out 1.
I play TSieve basically because it is the best way to win 1st games (have a chance) vs TurboTime and Reclamation and the unique reason - by here I play vs some guys with those decks.
I see Ghirapur as a Non Karn target that can kills planeswalkers and by itsef is a threat, It could be Tezz, but Tezz does not kill Karns or Oufes and has more utilities, also beeing an enchantment helps. It is also like the 3rd GBlast...
I played 2 torunmaents and noticed that need to curve better GBlast is both an efective way to deal vs planeswalkers and help in hearly.Tron and Lands destroyed me 1s time... and it was paifull to not to reach to Bridge or not having answers less costly. also didn't have counters..
PPRims really shined 3 times and they were key those... but not sure if better than otehr rocks, but the fact that they provide all colors when running 4 diff. is nice.
@smidondrej
- torpor orb doesnt go wlel with GEngineer and neither Emry and neither Thopter? am I missing something?
- Idon't see a reason to play WWell/Ichor instead of SVisions now no metl craft is needed.
- your deck if Karn then GG even post side - trust me tron lost lattice but not karn
at the same timeI am happy about this as by here lot of brewers happy with pre oko started to leave...
I don't think MOpal should have been banned and see how mich this hurts the deck...
but happy brewing!
related to that build from smidondre:
- 21 lands and 0 mox opal does not make sense to me even with no good cantrips 1st turn. even +1 mindstone. (mine can be even worse!)
o I really don't know how tostart to also squeeze Moal/lands/ cantrips - my latest iteration just contained even more Serums and likely go back to it.
- long time ago and I agreed finally with nobodys is the no need of ichor well. now even less we have so many costs 2...
- you play green and no lands producing the color - too risky in my op. --> if Oufe or Stony then gg
so there is my first try:
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
4 [EXP] Polluted Delta
1 [MH1] Prismatic Vista
5 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Swamp
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Mountain
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [RTR] Steam Vents
1 [RNA] Breeding Pool
1 Inventors' Fair
// Creatures
3 [MH1] Goblin Engineer
4 [MH1] Urza, Lord High Artificer
// Spells
2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
3 [AER] Whir of Invention
1 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
4 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
4 [CS] Mishra's Bauble
4 [MH1] Arcum's Astrolabe
1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
1 [ARB] Time Sieve
1 [ORI] Ghirapur AEther Grid
1 [C13] Nihil Spellbomb
1 [DOM] Damping Sphere
2 [ARE] Serum Visions
3 [HOP] Pentad Prism
2 Galvanic Blast
1 Welding Jar
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Stoic Rebutal
3 [AER] Fatal Push
3 [GRN] Assassin's Trophy
1 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 [M20] Veil of Summer
1 [M20] Grafdigger's Cage
1 [MR] Welding Jar
v2.1:
-1SVisions -1PPrism -1EBridge-1GEngineer = +2GBlast+1Fair+1WJar
-3Batle Bridge -1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas = +2 Disdainful Stroke+1 Stoic Rebutal +1FPush
explanations:
- Ido know that Prism is not a card that is loved, but I feel we've lost a lot of speed and by ar thi card is the one that provide us the most possible speed - apart of mindstone and other rocks - I'vebeen thinking in also Growth but will not work...
- lot of time ago I dont play Ichor and not needed.
- I really love the Engineer - likely 4 is a lot and 4th SVisions is the right move but I just want as many as possible in the board of this...
- not jar - I think between playing >2 copies of the key cards has been a perfect approach - also Enginneers help in here - not needed for 1st games in my opinion - also we have to think that here is no more need to have 3 artifacts.
- no Emry - lately I used to grab EE or MOpals mainly and to get CA with Baubles - now MOpal gone it is even hardest to cast and I just prefer 1 million tinmes an Engineer doing his stuff...
- Veil - I've tried this and is great stuff and is good with mana for 3rd turn Urza under Prism.
- really don't know about side... before I had more anti tron stuff, but I am frightned about fast agro now more than even...
please any opinion is well come!
thnaks,
any +x-x about cards to side out and cards to side in vs diff decks in the meta?
wanted to share my latest iteration of the deck from Karn appearence.
I discussed earlier with shock on the decklist, but what everybody seems to agree is in cutting high costs from main.
I started with 1 Minds 1 Wurmcoil 1 titan, now cut the titan, then cut 1 wurmcoil and added 1 relic main and then siwthced it again because hoggak no longer exists, so high costs are low now. (mintaining chalice, EE, snap, WB, full remands, etc.)
also 3 walking main is also an staple - love the card
I think I have moreless my main done - still need to figure out what to do if adding relic to main or not, but now hogak has gone i think wurmcoil will prevail.
well there it goes my v10.4 list:
4 [BD] Island (3)
4 [5E] Urza's Power Plant
4 [5E] Urza's Mine
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [FUT] River of Tears
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [SOK] Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 [XLN] Field of Ruin
1 [EXP] Tectonic Edge
1 [WAR] Blast Zone
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
3 [AER] Walking Ballista
3 [GP] Repeal
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [DD2] Condescend
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [CMD] Oblivion Stone
1 [MR] Mindslaver
1 [MMA] Chalice of the Void
1 [UGF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
1 [MR] Talisman of Progress
1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
1 [MMA] Engineered Explosives
4 [WAR] Karn, the Great Creator
SIDE:
2 [M13] Tormod's Crypt
1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOM] Mindslaver
1 [PRE] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [KLI] Crucible of Worlds
1 [DS] Mycosynth Lattice
1 [UBT] Engineered Explosives
2 [MMA] Relic of Progenitus
1 [GPX] Batterskull
1 [CM2] Oblivion Stone
1 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [V09] Trinisphere
there are lots of explnations and options as from Karan appearance lot has been done, I'll share some:
- in the side at first I had silent arbiter - dismissed - does nothing at least for me.
- trini was not in the side - but it is key agains red phenix! thnaks Shok.
- had 1 cage / 1 relic - but cage does not avoid dredge...
- batterskull is great for mana curve.
- thinking in adding Spine , but for the moment 4 bouncers has been fine to handle stony effects.
- still didn't lost to humans and neither my playmate - blast zone is a house.
- still undecided to try bridge - sure shok disagrees in here, but dont know, any other opinion on this? the theory says that bridge is not good in our strategy...
- tried also 1 caverns and added a 3rd talisman but preferred to take it out and add a snow island - not sure on this...
- added also 4th remand
- just remember the last day i faced a control deck with 2 surgicals main - still hogak era - and well he was able to surgical - my Towers, my ballistas, my tectonic edge and also my karns. and I won anyway, Ihad just BZone /OStone / crucible ARuins engine and thats it, really love the deck...
- I really would like to have more dismembers/like in side, but not really needed, I just sometimes add the 4th ballista main or EE or Chalice, and vs control, just 1 relic or even more business like Batterskull
- has anypone though in adding 1 expedition to the side? is it nonsense?
EDIT:
long time ago i tried an iteration with Shoal and just didn't work, I imagine the same with FoN - my opinion is that this does not go with the strategy of the deck - dont want to invest 2 cards in 1 noncreature card and well I am not worried of early non creatures spells, but anyway, not even tested, so can't argue agains this.
opinions?- the curios thing is that I really dont know if the deck gets better with karn or not... but I love playing the card...
Old Texx player in here, but wow the deck has changed a lot and I am quite lost...
seems that thenobodys has done a great work with all the new cards printed and created a great iteration of the deck.
I am in the process of buying all those new cards.
thenobodies, do you have some kind of side strategy with that iteration and things that can be done with the cards- just to have a starting point... maybe it would be nice to update the primer and maybe I can contribute with my toughts onece I have a clear path on how to play again the deck...
now that urzasis released everibody seems to play the deck... before I thnk it was also good, but the hell.
1st opinipon: looking at the lists it seems that caverns to artificer would be nice agains control. is decay an option vs stony and green stony with legs? this deck seems to have lot of dependancy of swrds package...
thanks in advance.
I am a long time UTron player,
since the appearence of Karn, I am realy excited...
I think the list from Shook is likely the logical evolution of the deck - means reducing high costs and introducing cards from side.
the list I am trying is moreless the one from Shok (more repeals, more Talismans, 1 snap, full Karns, B. Zone, no Dismemeber, etc):
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1969316#online
but I am playing a full Karn and full dedicated artifacts in side. It is not good but I want to find out how good is Karn in the deck.
just a few questions mainly for Shok if he is by there (sure or others):
a) Why using the Trini in Side, I don't think it has any use and the same purpose is Chalice in side. If yes, please let me know reasons.
b) Why Revoker instead of Spyglass or Needle? likely for those WG Vizier?
c) me and a friend are evaluating the need of Oboro right now - we've included Blast Zone and also T. Edge thus reducing the blue land count and added the 3rd Talisman instead of 2nd Snap. and now that we don't play Mages we don't see much of as a need for the Oboro. Agree?
d) Why Leyline instead of more Tormods/Cage and Relic?
e) Definately No O. Stone in Side? me and a friend think it is one of the cards more frequesntly search for. (I think the most ones are Crucible, Lattice, Ballista and OStone)
f) definately thinking in 2nd Gemstone, bt not sure what to take out...
Thanks in advance, I personally agree mosts of the times with Shoks Lists/changes and his reasonings.
@syunikiso, with new Karn we are in a unexplored territory, you'll likely do better results with old lists if you are used to. I can guarranty that in short term I'll not do good results because of this, but definately Karn is something good for the deck. I am not ccmpletely sure and the fact that reduces our so comprissed side is something I don't like in a deck like tron. I for example am trying a full artifacts side - which is wrong - but I want to see the behaviour of karn and if it is worth its inclusion and at the same time reducing the side. In Legacy in TES I can say 7 slots for Burning Wish worths. But no idea in UTron...
anyway, I always take UTron as a deck I just like to play and never expect to do great results, sometimes I do, but sometimes I just loose miserably (because of *****ty Burn...)
EDIT: I've been thinking in Ensnaring Birdge + Bottled Cloister in side... but not sure if this is ok... by the moment lets see how S.Arbiter works... any idea?
I neither play creature removal in base so all comes from side.
I thought EE were good vs UG Vizier... they blow up birds and hirarchs - but maybe it is too slow. which is the reason they are bad?
Is Pierce good vs them? I feel that sometimes they are better because you want to gain tempo maintaining U opened while doing other stuff - condescend on this purpose fails.
Conclusions?
is Uba Mask worth the space against control in general?
will this worth the base space?
@boomforest you say it finally does not worth? which is your plan against Control?
the problem I see with this deck is that we have 0 threats agains control - well you can consider Crucible a threat... as I believe it is my main plan... sad. but I'd like to know solid ideas against control and maybe do something with the base. the hell I've been thinking in adding the uncounterable G Trol!
Come on guys - this is the UNIQUE deck we loose to...
EDIT: An improvement - I believe I've made to the deck is changing the fetch lands to just misty rainforest/polluted deltain this order because Glass to flooded or scalding IS a thing vs control. I am now at fetch blue list
I've been a long time UTron player, and always used Shooks Decklist, except at first when I miserably lost to Burn and made a full EE / River of Tears approach...
I was used to great records, but the other day - long time I didn't play tron - I faced UG Vizier - a deck I was used to win. and lost as 2nd time to the same player...
having in mind the Shok List:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27782&iddeck=224200
how do you play OtD and OtP vs Vizier?
NOTES:
I just didn't play karn
this time I opted to not to play the 3rd Spatial Contortion which I likely regret
I still play trinquet and no 2nd wallista
I think I made:
-1 Chalice, -1 Angel, -1 Solemn Simulacrum, -3 Remand = +3 Dismember + 2 Spatial + 1 EE (I have 0 Dismember in base and play already 1 EE in base)
my doubts are: Is Spell Pierce good against UG Vizier? should I take 1 Condescend out? can Surgical be good somehow?
Thanks in advance.
not sure if Possesed portal would work as it is just expensive (I like the card!)... the problem should be to resolve a whir... which is likely the most in the so few cards they are worry about...
this is likely the thing I miss from other tezz build that has the option of Discard plus threat and thopter inevitability in 1st game.
this deck has just 3 relevant cards vs control which is crucible and spyglass/EE but the last 2 cards are just not a threat...
the problem about silence is that invalidates skite and i hate that. I really would **** to have activated skites/jar options vs disenthant/spheres...
So I am looking at 2 options:
- increase the number of Defense Grid - I'll start on 3 and lets see if 4 are ok. Question: in resp to a spell, If I cast whir to defense is it countered if is my turn? but the problem of defense is again the same - defense in order to counter what? so also increase aether/crucible...
- radically change the manabase to support decay/discard - like UB Tezz because decay to moon/silence/sphere is a good thing! and maybe visions?
EDIT: Saw Uba mask... no sure if Defense is just better...
EDIT 2: any card like Dwarven Blastminer in modern?
Onions?
I played the deck again to a decent 3-1!
the deck just plays on its own... I think what Youwillnowexplode states is just true... no elendras no counters, just Spellskites - I also thinking lately the same about Padeem. while the card just is fantastic I think it can be other card like more defense grids or Aether..
the only kind of decks I am having issues with are Control decks - 1st time was Blue moon thats why I changed to the last iteration of Mr Coyle (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27557&iddeck=221253) from there I just switched 1 cascade by 1 spire... nothing else. and the last control game was just UW with spheres / cryptics / counters / disenchant from side and silence - the guy even played Espercharm which destroys my Aether grids...
how the hell do you win vs this strategy? I mean you just play proactively and land ***** of cards and give the opp. the option to win you via snap??
I've been thinking in just try to add space to play more Defense grids but I really would like to have anti stony in the form of decay - sure sometimes just Aether wins you the game but others just suck. do you leave Chalices?
please I'd like to have other opinons on this - I am trying to figure ut some kind of approach vs this...
I think 1st game is one of the few decks you loose miserably to...
on the other side 2nd game the cards I brought in were Elendra - which was just too slow and defense grid which was good... the bad thing is that I sided out an opal when I shouldn't have.
I'll likely try metallic rebuke as it is a slow mana cost. but vs thse matc ups I just miss the manabase from Tezz, those IoK/T.S and the inevitability from thopter...
yeah I love PP...
I feel also this deck needs cards like Glen Elendra / Null Breach / Meddling mage / nevermore / etc.
My next testing card. thanks!
But not sure if Glen could be better as they fit a similar roles...
my first insight could be:
Glen is better than Declaration vs jund
Declaration seems better at entering early to protect other silver bullets coming later
Declaration is decay meal
Sure Glen is path/Bolt/Push meal that this will occur not much often
beeing a 2 mana fights vs Chalice at 2
Declaration is just less polivalent
...
maybe just will play a mix of MM/Spellskite...
well I love this deck... I evolved from those *****ty UB Tezz to the most exciting deck I've played ever in Modern... but my testing is slow because of time so all i can say is that I get more and more stability at playing it and sure! it is done at my taste...
I love that Possesed Portal...
I don't think so.
you play 4 Tolaria for Tormods and Tormods is infenitely better than bojuka because: a) it can be played the same turn you fetch with tolaria b) is an artifact count for Opal c) can be fetched by Inventors and d) can be recurred by ARuins.
I believe Glen Elendra seems okish but I recognice I am in the learn curve with this deck... Tezz/GRindfather/Whir Deck I''d say...
@EDIT: boomforest:
Valakut is solved by Witchbane first game uniquely.
2nd games Drusge are a *****. so chalice on 2 is a priority but sometimes slow. Elendra is a nice puzzle vs this deck. but even I side in Elendra I also overload on Jars and Spellskites...
Tron is super easy with no Damping side even if you play the Ghost quarter version - I am still on this.