So I watched someone stream UW teferi/karn whirza last night and I’m convinced it will play a part in the meta now. It’s certainly slower than grixis but can interact better with the top decks post board and is likely the mirror breaker.
Bold, your teferi and Paths aren’t castable under Stony, I’d recommend a hallowed fountain or at least some spires. Also, instead of 4 bolts maybe 2/2 galvanic split for the humans matchup? Have you found 6 removal spells necessary?
I agree on time sieve; being a dead card so often negates the minimal advantage it offers when going off. Grids floor is much higher while still being an auto-win effectively. Still not certain if main deck is necessary though.
I’m not convinced since not being tutorable with Whir is a significant downgrade imo. Drawing multiples just sounds awful. If we didn’t have Whir as an option I’m not certain I would have played more than 1 KCI in thoptersword. I don’t think he does enough in game 1 and combo is always tougher to pull off after SB. Maybe a 1 of for some matchups.
On a separate note, I think force makes chalice a better strategy for us and is worth exploring. Maybe thoughtcast as Card draw that dodges chalice but easily pitched if needed to dump our hand. Borderpost to ramp us and still pitches to force.
I think new Karn might be good enough for us after some testing. It’s actually decent against two bad matchups (tron, prison). It’s also insurance against surgicals (mostly concerned with death shadow). I’m not sure we can make the lattice part work but I’ll definitely give it a whir.
I agree, new Karn looks a little scary and I wonder if it's worth Tron re-doing their sideboard. Less worried about bridge + Ballista interaction and more worried about tutoring for silver bullets like O-stone/needle and whatever else they decide.
I prefer the alt win-cons as they have been more consistent IMO. Your opponent will aggressively mull for Stony/Leyline/RIP and punishing their resulting slow clock works better in my experience (Turtle Bridge, ping with Grid/Tezz with Spellskites to protect). Also, in the case of enchantment hate, they typically have 4-6 to our 2 Trophy/1 Nature's Claim (last config I saw consistently) so you have to run lucky to outpace them.
I cut all opals against any deck running 2+ Stony and any grindy matchup like BG, UW, Grixis Shadow, etc. Prey you don't play against Abzan Midrange but be sure to board them out there too (grindy AND stony).
Ego naming valakut/scapeshift wins me a lot of games. I bring it in against control if I have any remaining bad cards in my deck I want out but you shouldn't be bringing in all 4. I usually name stony first, cryptic 2nd, teferi 3rd depending on what opponent has resolved thusfar. Also gives you info on their deck for game 3.
Agree with Alzheimer on Sai/Mentor.
They usually don't slam shatter/recall turn 4/immediately, so discard works if you sequence correctly. I try to sandbag against Shatter and I try to leave up Whir Orb against Recall.
Hmm I think CB is a flexible card that is good in a lot of matchups and therefore a clear MB card. In matchups where bridge is our best card, CB is our 3rd best card (bridge, whir) to dump your hand in time or pick off noble hierarch. In modern, you generally want to play cards in your SB that are game-winning and not flexible good cards which CB is mostly. However, I would say CB is near game-winning against burn. I don't love CB as much as I did last year, but it is necessary given the amount of burn/shatterstorms I'm seeing of late.
With the new straight to modern set, are we getting the artifact bird finally???
Ah good point, I originally had 3 Heralds + 4 Thoughtcast with 3/4 Whir main making the Jars basically a mana rock. Some should be cut if Herald is only a sideboard option.
Perhaps even moving the Heralds to the Main (Chalice protects them) in lieu of bridge/whir. Chalice seems really strong right now and I've yet to find the right home for Herald. This kinda combines the two.
Well I've played a few leagues now with time sieve and have lost at least 3 games I would have won with KCI. I don't even think it's an auto-include in the MB. Meanwhile spectacle burn is everywhere bring your CBs to the party
Hey everyone. Better late than never so this is what I brought to Oakland and felt really good going in. Unfortunately, after starting 4-0 (beat G tron! but he had a slow game 1 hand and mulled to 4 game 2, still almost winning jeez) I went to time against a GB rock deck (my friends insist I be more proactive in calling judge against people playing slow). I likely win game 3 if he untaps with confidant at 1 life or at worst on my next turn as I have thopters. It got ugly after that. I next drew against another G tron before being knocked out by Lantern Control and then got turn 3'd twice against KCI. I'm really considering conceding before taking the first draw...it's really bad for making top 8 yes, but I think we want to avoid the draw bracket more than any other deck. Any thoughts on this?
I definitely made some misplays along the way, MTGO is not a complete substitute to paper practice! I believe I could have won both drawn games if I change my lines as I was 1 untap step away on both.
I also got knocked out of both PTQs by UB Mill, Elves, Amulet Titan, and G Tron so I definitely need to get better at picking my matchups. Lantern, UB Mill, and G Tron are my worst matchups and Elves/Titan are probably in the next tier. I didn't face a single spirits, humans, phoenix, or dredge deck all weekend (19 rounds!)
As far as changes, Cloister is starting to feel like the weakest card in the 60. After that I'd only MAYBE touch the fatal push's, CBs, or the 2nd jar but love the list as is. I'd love the 3rd Tezz to be a 3 mana fast threat but nothing has proven itself to me. Revoker is good against KCI/Tron but I almost feel like it's Ego or bust. The rest of the S/B is pretty tight for me.
Love my mana base. I can basically keep any 1 land opener with only 1 non-blue source and 4 Visions. I can't stress enough how important this is over any 8 round+ tournament. Fair is too slow unless you run more lock pieces/disruption and every deck that ruins is good against now has many ways to kill it. I think Faithless Looting is slightly better than visions but making my mana bad is not worth it IMO.
A few different people came up to me at both Oakland and Portland recognizing me from Vegas which was super cool! Invited them to join here so hopefully we see them around.
Hopefully we don't lose opal or KCI on Monday (get out of here ancient stirrings!) but I think we can adjust without them.
I'll preface by saying I haven't been playing as much as I'd like and it showed. I also didn't register my decklist in time (I'll never not pre-reg again). this combined with a mull to 5 stuck on 1 land resulted in a quick R2 Loss. However, I still made day 2 and the deck felt great.
Matchups included: WB Control, Hollow one, Dredge, UR Phoenix, Infect, Spirits, Hardened Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, Hollow One Phoenix.
All my wins were 2-0's and not much to mention and my losses were to Infect, Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, and Hollow One Phoenix.
Infect loss was definitely me not playing regularly and therefore being less cutthroat. I could have Whir'ed for bridge and lock'ed game 1 (just draw for a finisher) but I knew his hand, and knew combo would kill him in 3 turns. His only out would be runner/runner blighted agent into become immense...never again. Needle on skite, bridge, and grid made quick work of game 2. Game 3 I got stuck on 2 lands with all action in hand.
Scales: KCI combo takes game 1. Game 2 my 2nd big punt, tapping out to dump 2nd bridge when he has inkmoth and I have combo. He topdecks Ravager for the kill. Game 3 another punt and probably the most painful, I whir for Revoker naming Ballista to lock him out of the game (Bridge, combo, 0 infect taken). I decided to get Revoker to be mana efficient knowing they don't play creature removal. What I forgot was that I do...next draw is damnation which I must cast since he has giant hangarbacks and a sac outlet. My 2nd needle ends the game on the spot as I have more jars then he has claims left.
Abzan: This is not a good matchup, and this deck was especially well positioned against us. 3 stony, 3 surgical, Pulse, 3 trophy, vraska, 4 Lotv, it was ugly.
Mono Red Phoenix: Inexperience got me here as I didn't know this was a deck, I knew how to play against UR phoenix and assumed this was similar. It's definitely more like a burn deck. He goldfishes game 1 (swiftspear into turn 2 manamorphose, faithless discard 2 phoenix lavaspike, into turn 3 double bolt under my 2 card bridge) I actually thought Game 1 he was just missing blue mana. Poor sideboarding and shrine of burning rage ended me (boarded out needle).
Hollow One Phoenix: Similar to Mono Red, I didn't know this was a deck and got blown out by Eidolon game 3 (Game 2 he had a wicked fast start with 2 ancient grudge back-up)
All in all, every match felt good except Abzan and I believe if I replayed these matches we should win all but 1 of them.
Notable decklist changes and thoughts:
Pretty last minute I locked in on Aether Grid over Decay/Trophy and am quite happy. Although it's probably worse against UW Control it fills a similar role, and against Spirits it's actually better (hard to fight through 6 enchantments) while also being effective against Leyline decks. By switching to Grid, I've upp'ed Jar to 2 and added skite to the board since my plan is to turtle game 2 behind bridge. This has proven much more consistent. I think it might even be right to add more of each in the board and go all-in on this plan a la Ben's list.
The 2nd jar replaced my 3rd CoBru, burn has been dropping in numbers and 2nd battle in the board being my justification.
4 unmoored ego: I didn't face a deck in which I wanted these, but they have been too necessary in the matchups I want them to cut. I think more data is still needed.
Damnation felt replaceable, and especially so after it single-handedly knocked me into my death spiral (first of 3 losses in a row on day 2).
2 Battle: these go really well with the game 2 durdle plan as a way to get back out of burn range while also hitting problem permanents like Kambal, hazoret, etc.
3 Tezzeret: This might be too many, although I dodged the boogeyman as I say this.
Revoker: Leaving it in for KCI at GPs, probably don't play it online.
I will be at Oakland next month so I will try to find time to get the reps in prior. Really think we're close here as 8 of the top 10 performing decks are fair matchups at worst.
Agree, discard and mana rocks are the first things that should be boarded out against GB/x type decks (shadow included). They have more threats than us, so eliminating dead draws in the mid-game is imperative.
I’d also argue G Tron is basically unwinnable if they’re a strong player. Like 15/85.
I’m a fan of keeping bridges in against UW to increase the value of needle effects potentially locking them out of the game. Especially if I win game 1.
1.) Yes
2.) I prefer Abrupt Decay for a few reasons. Most of the Stony Silence decks are also the Blue decks with counters. Whether it be Mausoleum Wanderer or Cryptic Command I need to know that the 1-3 cards I am drawing to WILL work when I find them. In addition to that I often board them in as extra removal spells against specific decks like Humans.
3.) As of late I have been playing a ton of ATrophy in Sultai Midrange/Control style decks and have loved it there but am likely not to touch it here. Mostly because the utility is different. I don't NEED an all purpose answer, I need to kill Stony Silence, Rest in Peace and Thalia Guardian of Thraben. Why play Atrophy if it is actively worst in most scenarios that I need it? In midrange/control decks I play the card as a better Terminate paired with Fatal Push to negate most of the early ramping problem.
I think it’s closer than it appears... Spirits run spell queller which ignores the uncounterable clause, and UW is typically holding up cryptic once you’re at the point where you have the combo and a trophy (cryptic bounce in response). Meanwhile, trophy hits leyline/worship etc at 4cmc which is pretty significant these days. I’m on trophy and again I think it’s really close. I don’t find the land drawback to be extremely Relevant in the matchups we need trophy since we’re definitely not turn 2/3ing trophy.
4 prismatic vista
2 polluted delta
6 snow-covered island
1 snow-covered plains
1 academy ruins
2 hallowed fountain
4 Urza, lord artificer
4 karn, the great creator
3 teferi, time raveler
2 whir of invention
1 ensnaring bridge
1 Sai, master thopterist
3 mind stone
3 Thopter foundry
2 sword of the meek
4 mox opal
4 mishra’s bauble
4 arcum’s astroblade
2 pithing needle
1 welding jar
2 grafdigger’s cage
1 mycosynth lattice
1 Torpor orb
1 tormod’s crypt
1 Ensnaring bridge
1 Engineered explosives
1 witchbane orb
2 timely reinforcements
4 path to exile
1 Thopter foundry
1 Sword of the meek
1 wurmcoil engine
I agree on time sieve; being a dead card so often negates the minimal advantage it offers when going off. Grids floor is much higher while still being an auto-win effectively. Still not certain if main deck is necessary though.
On a separate note, I think force makes chalice a better strategy for us and is worth exploring. Maybe thoughtcast as Card draw that dodges chalice but easily pitched if needed to dump our hand. Borderpost to ramp us and still pitches to force.
I prefer the alt win-cons as they have been more consistent IMO. Your opponent will aggressively mull for Stony/Leyline/RIP and punishing their resulting slow clock works better in my experience (Turtle Bridge, ping with Grid/Tezz with Spellskites to protect). Also, in the case of enchantment hate, they typically have 4-6 to our 2 Trophy/1 Nature's Claim (last config I saw consistently) so you have to run lucky to outpace them.
I cut all opals against any deck running 2+ Stony and any grindy matchup like BG, UW, Grixis Shadow, etc. Prey you don't play against Abzan Midrange but be sure to board them out there too (grindy AND stony).
Ego naming valakut/scapeshift wins me a lot of games. I bring it in against control if I have any remaining bad cards in my deck I want out but you shouldn't be bringing in all 4. I usually name stony first, cryptic 2nd, teferi 3rd depending on what opponent has resolved thusfar. Also gives you info on their deck for game 3.
Agree with Alzheimer on Sai/Mentor.
They usually don't slam shatter/recall turn 4/immediately, so discard works if you sequence correctly. I try to sandbag against Shatter and I try to leave up Whir Orb against Recall.
Daretti in MH1 would be pretty sweet but maybe too strong for Modern.
With the new straight to modern set, are we getting the artifact bird finally???
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Welding Jar
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous spyglass
4 Mind Stone
1 Damping Sphere
1 Witchbane Orb
3 Whir of Invention
3 Herald of Anguish
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Unmoored Ego
4 Battle at the Bridge
Perhaps even moving the Heralds to the Main (Chalice protects them) in lieu of bridge/whir. Chalice seems really strong right now and I've yet to find the right home for Herald. This kinda combines the two.
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damping Sphere
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
2 Welding Jar
4 Whir of invention
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
4 Serum Visions
Land
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Spire of Industry
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Unmoored Ego
2 Spellskite
2 Battle at the Bridge
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 Torpor Orb
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Hey everyone. Better late than never so this is what I brought to Oakland and felt really good going in. Unfortunately, after starting 4-0 (beat G tron! but he had a slow game 1 hand and mulled to 4 game 2, still almost winning jeez) I went to time against a GB rock deck (my friends insist I be more proactive in calling judge against people playing slow). I likely win game 3 if he untaps with confidant at 1 life or at worst on my next turn as I have thopters. It got ugly after that. I next drew against another G tron before being knocked out by Lantern Control and then got turn 3'd twice against KCI. I'm really considering conceding before taking the first draw...it's really bad for making top 8 yes, but I think we want to avoid the draw bracket more than any other deck. Any thoughts on this?
I definitely made some misplays along the way, MTGO is not a complete substitute to paper practice! I believe I could have won both drawn games if I change my lines as I was 1 untap step away on both.
I also got knocked out of both PTQs by UB Mill, Elves, Amulet Titan, and G Tron so I definitely need to get better at picking my matchups. Lantern, UB Mill, and G Tron are my worst matchups and Elves/Titan are probably in the next tier. I didn't face a single spirits, humans, phoenix, or dredge deck all weekend (19 rounds!)
As far as changes, Cloister is starting to feel like the weakest card in the 60. After that I'd only MAYBE touch the fatal push's, CBs, or the 2nd jar but love the list as is. I'd love the 3rd Tezz to be a 3 mana fast threat but nothing has proven itself to me. Revoker is good against KCI/Tron but I almost feel like it's Ego or bust. The rest of the S/B is pretty tight for me.
Love my mana base. I can basically keep any 1 land opener with only 1 non-blue source and 4 Visions. I can't stress enough how important this is over any 8 round+ tournament. Fair is too slow unless you run more lock pieces/disruption and every deck that ruins is good against now has many ways to kill it. I think Faithless Looting is slightly better than visions but making my mana bad is not worth it IMO.
A few different people came up to me at both Oakland and Portland recognizing me from Vegas which was super cool! Invited them to join here so hopefully we see them around.
Hopefully we don't lose opal or KCI on Monday (get out of here ancient stirrings!) but I think we can adjust without them.
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Spire of Industry
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
Spells
4 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
3 Mox Opal
2 Welding Jar
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damping Sphere
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krark-Clain Ironworks
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Torpor Orb
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Unmoored Ego
1 Damnation
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Spellskite
I'll preface by saying I haven't been playing as much as I'd like and it showed. I also didn't register my decklist in time (I'll never not pre-reg again). this combined with a mull to 5 stuck on 1 land resulted in a quick R2 Loss. However, I still made day 2 and the deck felt great.
Matchups included: WB Control, Hollow one, Dredge, UR Phoenix, Infect, Spirits, Hardened Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, Hollow One Phoenix.
All my wins were 2-0's and not much to mention and my losses were to Infect, Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, and Hollow One Phoenix.
Infect loss was definitely me not playing regularly and therefore being less cutthroat. I could have Whir'ed for bridge and lock'ed game 1 (just draw for a finisher) but I knew his hand, and knew combo would kill him in 3 turns. His only out would be runner/runner blighted agent into become immense...never again. Needle on skite, bridge, and grid made quick work of game 2. Game 3 I got stuck on 2 lands with all action in hand.
Scales: KCI combo takes game 1. Game 2 my 2nd big punt, tapping out to dump 2nd bridge when he has inkmoth and I have combo. He topdecks Ravager for the kill. Game 3 another punt and probably the most painful, I whir for Revoker naming Ballista to lock him out of the game (Bridge, combo, 0 infect taken). I decided to get Revoker to be mana efficient knowing they don't play creature removal. What I forgot was that I do...next draw is damnation which I must cast since he has giant hangarbacks and a sac outlet. My 2nd needle ends the game on the spot as I have more jars then he has claims left.
Abzan: This is not a good matchup, and this deck was especially well positioned against us. 3 stony, 3 surgical, Pulse, 3 trophy, vraska, 4 Lotv, it was ugly.
Mono Red Phoenix: Inexperience got me here as I didn't know this was a deck, I knew how to play against UR phoenix and assumed this was similar. It's definitely more like a burn deck. He goldfishes game 1 (swiftspear into turn 2 manamorphose, faithless discard 2 phoenix lavaspike, into turn 3 double bolt under my 2 card bridge) I actually thought Game 1 he was just missing blue mana. Poor sideboarding and shrine of burning rage ended me (boarded out needle).
Hollow One Phoenix: Similar to Mono Red, I didn't know this was a deck and got blown out by Eidolon game 3 (Game 2 he had a wicked fast start with 2 ancient grudge back-up)
All in all, every match felt good except Abzan and I believe if I replayed these matches we should win all but 1 of them.
Notable decklist changes and thoughts:
Pretty last minute I locked in on Aether Grid over Decay/Trophy and am quite happy. Although it's probably worse against UW Control it fills a similar role, and against Spirits it's actually better (hard to fight through 6 enchantments) while also being effective against Leyline decks. By switching to Grid, I've upp'ed Jar to 2 and added skite to the board since my plan is to turtle game 2 behind bridge. This has proven much more consistent. I think it might even be right to add more of each in the board and go all-in on this plan a la Ben's list.
The 2nd jar replaced my 3rd CoBru, burn has been dropping in numbers and 2nd battle in the board being my justification.
4 unmoored ego: I didn't face a deck in which I wanted these, but they have been too necessary in the matchups I want them to cut. I think more data is still needed.
Damnation felt replaceable, and especially so after it single-handedly knocked me into my death spiral (first of 3 losses in a row on day 2).
2 Battle: these go really well with the game 2 durdle plan as a way to get back out of burn range while also hitting problem permanents like Kambal, hazoret, etc.
3 Tezzeret: This might be too many, although I dodged the boogeyman as I say this.
Revoker: Leaving it in for KCI at GPs, probably don't play it online.
Considering: 4th bridge, Jace, Memory Adept, 1-2 Jar/Skites.
I will be at Oakland next month so I will try to find time to get the reps in prior. Really think we're close here as 8 of the top 10 performing decks are fair matchups at worst.
I’d also argue G Tron is basically unwinnable if they’re a strong player. Like 15/85.
I’m a fan of keeping bridges in against UW to increase the value of needle effects potentially locking them out of the game. Especially if I win game 1.
I think it’s closer than it appears... Spirits run spell queller which ignores the uncounterable clause, and UW is typically holding up cryptic once you’re at the point where you have the combo and a trophy (cryptic bounce in response). Meanwhile, trophy hits leyline/worship etc at 4cmc which is pretty significant these days. I’m on trophy and again I think it’s really close. I don’t find the land drawback to be extremely Relevant in the matchups we need trophy since we’re definitely not turn 2/3ing trophy.