Emry + W6 seem like the highest quality Amber enablers. Neither of them really seems that insane as an individual card and Mox is Legendary so I'm going to try like 3 emry, 2 W6, 2 Mox. I'm also wondering if SSG would be decent in that shell. Getting either down on T1 and having an active mox would be nearly as busted as some of the stuff Opal used to do.
I've been playing a similar list but with a 2 Karn, 3 Urza, and an extra Mindstone. Being able to dump pieces in the yard and not worry about surgical feels very nice. As does having extra pieces in the SB, and useful mana sinks when you have Urza + 10 artifacts out without the combo. I like a Darksteel Citadel for the feel bad Urza -> Whir activations and I think I'm going to adopt the Gemstone Caverns as well. All our relevant cards are 2+ and we need ramp/live opals to catch up to the speed of Phoenix/Prowess/Hogaak. I'm slowly getting off playing the White as well... Teferi just isn't necessary when you can keep runnning bombs/card advantage into so many decks and Karn allows you to top everything with a bit of mana.
Your logic on Ghirapur is solid. I will say it won me a game in turns but that's a bit silly, spine should be threatening the same immediate win at any other point in the game and it clogged up a few hands I would have much rather had a Sai or another whir.
Urza is basically a copy of Time Sieve, making you infinite thopters and infinite life. If you had an Aether Grid you can utilize his ability to find it and win instantly. Aether Grid also is fine if you draw it normally, while Time Sieve does nothing unless you have the combo and 5 mana.
Astrolobe definitely pushes the deck in the direction of playing 3 or even 4 colors. Chromatic Star is something I wanted to try but it really doesn't appear to fit anymore. Astrolobe is generally slightly to much better as we want to keep artifacts around for future Whir's and repeated mana fixing is nice.
Dead of Winter is sweet but I'm pretty worried about it being a miss with only ~1/3 of the deck being snow permanents and the potential to kill our own creatures randomly as well. At sorcery speed it also competing with Battle at the Bridge. I think it might be better ultimately to play a couple On Thin Ice or Dispatch.
Spine is hilariously castable with Urza (and since he doesn't care about Stony I can see it being a central piece going froward).
As crazy as it sounds we might be running 4 creatures in a dedicated Thopter/Whir deck lol. Hell, I would play 4 SSG to have this out as early as possible. Are there instant speed wincons with that much mana? All I can think of is X spells like Blue Sun Zenith. Perhaps a 1x Heroic Intervention to protect everything until end of turn and then tutor sorcery speed stuff.
Ideas Unbound was a card a long while back but shelved because Faithless Looting was so much better. Hard to play when we might actively want a bit of card advantage now but it's still a sweet piece of tech if we ever find another card that wants to be discarded.
I can comfortably say this deck will win at most 1% of games! But I'm sure with 20 lands it's solid.
How did you feel about the dice factory experiments? I had the same thoughts originally to combo with new Karn and getting Lattice out super fast but numerous games with Cornucopia on 10 doing nothing kinda annoyed me. It was an undoubtedly powerful deck but I kept wanting to cut mana rocks for Bauble's and more prison pieces and it seemed a bit fragmented.
Narset is a sweet tech and fills the role of "searching for a non-land non-creature card" that we've been so desperate for (literally considered playing board the weatherlight). Narset was only a buck at my lgs so I'll probably take it for a spin.
Congratz on the invite! I went 5-2 in my IQ, but had a good run with the deck. Only lost to Valakut(no witchbane) and tokens(multiple discard spells stripped bridge/whir).
The move to 2 Tolaria West has felt like a huge improvement over what many of us were doing before. Having more avenues to EE, Opal, Welding Jar, Inventor's Fair, etc. has been really nice and it feels like I'm constantly doing something valuable and working towards a plan. It also subs in for a reasonable T1 play in hands where the U mana is more important. Maybe even 3 is correct. As it stands I can't see myself playing 4, we aren't as nearly as heavily reliant on EE/Chalice like the pure prison deck and really need untapped mana on T2/3.
If we are going to be on 2-3 Tolaria West and Inventor's fair, a Tec Edge + Crucible are also going be very strong. I was copying the Syed/McCloud 4 Fetch + 4 Island, and in many games the crucible + fetch's propel the mana far enough that I can easily whir for a Bridge post Shatterstorm. And obviously Inventor's fair doing 2-3 activations closes out a game immediately. I keep going back and forth on it, but I've settled on playing it MB for now. I think this spot is probably best to compare with Azcanta, neither are affected by Stony, generate a slight ramp, and later allow you to pay 4 mana to get ahead. Azcanta cmc conflicts with Foundry/Sword and Crucible conflicts with Bridge/Whir so it's hard to say which is less disruptive to the gameplan.
3 Opal!? I personally saw a noticeable improvement in my win-rate when I finally put $80 down for the 4th copy of Opal a few months back. The ramp is instrumental in getting out the gate against burn, under counter-spells, or casting an Ego before their third Tron land. It's a free win generator. With the London mulligan on the way I think 4 Opal will be the gold standard and I think more success will be found in making the deck work around 4 Opals. If that means 4 Bauble as well, and trimming some of the non-artifact spells I'm more confidant in that approach.
In the SB I've been trying Krosan Grip over Abrupt Decay mostly because Blood Moon is a bit annoying and I don't want to get locked out without the second color source. It's still effectively uncounterable, also kills leylines, and occasionally punishes a greedy tron player. I'm trying to avoid playing a Breeding Pool so I've also upped the Spire of Industry to 3. It's worth noting that Opal + Island + Mountain is enough to EE on 3 and clear a Bloodmoon, so I think the Swamp has really marginal value. I'm on 0 Fatal Push (and 3 Battle in the side) so that could also be influencing my opinions on the Swamp.
Some cool choices and I think there's something to be said for all of them (In response to the Lee McLeod deck):
As others have said in the past, pure UB is probably where you want to be to have a consistent win % against burn. Not taking damage from lands is essential and the G/R/W cards don't do anything there. Faithless Looting/Serum Visions are great consistency generators but that's one less slot you have for Collective Brutality or Battle at the Bridge and on the draw you might just be dead.
4 Mox Opal is a sticky spot for some people but it seems clear that the point of playing this kind of combo deck is abusing Opal and the chance of drawing 2+ is ~8%, while the draws where it is in hand are what is necessary to get under a Queller/Remand/etc. or complete the combo before dying to some form of aggro.
4 Ensnaring Bridge is probably a more contentious choice. It's somewhat dysynergistic with itself and I've been playing pretty close to this list with 1 Bridge as the Crucible.
A large part of the justification for 2x Tolaria West is that it can be returned from the graveyard after use and also tutor important lands like Tectonic Edge/Inventor's Fair/Academy Ruins. To that end I'm confused there isn't a Crucible of Worlds in the 75. But maybe EE/Opal/Tormod's/Welding Jar/Academy Ruins are enough choices. I regularly get instant concessions the first time I loop an Inventor's Fair with Crucible. It's also worth noting that there aren't a huge number of 1 drops in this list so a tap land on 1 is reasonable in a lot of games.
4 Unmoored Ego out of the side somewhat justifies the lack of a Ghost Quarter or Tec Edge to deal with Tron and other lands matter decks.
Nihil Spellbomb is definitely the most useful Chromatic Star alternative. It's 1 mana more to loop it for a card and a thopter but it just crushes a few matchups that are currently very popular.
Pithing Needle and Damping Sphere have repeatedly proven themselves to be powerful enough for the MB. Witchbane, Torpor Orb, and Tormod's Crypt are a bit loose in my opinion, be he isn't playing Time Sieve so perhaps the extra lockout cards are necessary. I would personally trade all 3 of those for something else. I also wouldn't be suprised if opponents just don't realize that Torpor Orb turns off Thopter Sword. I've watched people execute the combo in person while both are oblivious of a Torpor Orb.
The mana base initially looks kinda all over the place but I think the main theme is 4 unique fetches (avoiding your own pithing needle), 2 Watery Grave, 4 Darkslick Shores, 3 Spire, 3 Island, River or Tears which is usually a B when you need it (Battle at the Bridge or Collective brutality) and U on your opponents turn (Whir of invention), and the usual colorless lands. No Darksteel Citadels.
Sai and Tezzeret out of the SB are the proven alternative win cons. A full 4 Welding Jar/4 Mishra's/4 Opal in the MB make Sai even more attractive than usual. Welding Jar in particular is very good right now against Jund and Rock decks. Grafdiggers Cage is probably better main than Tormod's in my opinoin, and Negate is probably a last minute addition. Battle at the Bridge is so necessary against some decks and I can see up to 3 of those in the SB.
Metallic rebuke seems to continually make it into my builds. U: mana leak is definitely a card that would have a place in modem if it existed. One of the downsides is that our prison package tends to make games go into the 6+ land territory. The ability to gq lock someone with a crucible feels interesting in that context. I also tend to pitch lands with faithless looting a lot so maybe that's the shape of an optimal crucible build. The other question I have is whether tectonic edge is better. Tron is up to 4 basics these days and many other decks are in the 3+ territory in response to field of ruin. UW and GB are playing as many as 7 to fuel their own field of ruins.
Susurus's prison deck is pretty tight and hard to modify more than 3 or so cards. I really like the crucible inventors fair package and would be down to include it in our deck. Main problem is that we don't have much other synergies with crucible unless we start jamming field of ruin/gq/tolaria west. Chalice is also a sick card but modern seems like a 2 cmc format for now.
I've been trying to make repeal + chalice a thing recently and it feels good enough to test. The card draw is obviously a non-bo with bridge but the bouncing tends to slow down most clocks enough to work just right. More importantly in post board games you can lock 2 cmc enchantments in your opponents hand, defend important artifacts, or even cycle by bouncing an opal for free. Chalice on 1 offers likely one of the most robust defenses against surgical.
Faithless looting builds typically run 4 swords because you can get multiple in the GY at once. With 2 Swords you only need 4 mana to go infinite with Time Sieve.
Your logic on Ghirapur is solid. I will say it won me a game in turns but that's a bit silly, spine should be threatening the same immediate win at any other point in the game and it clogged up a few hands I would have much rather had a Sai or another whir.
Dead of Winter is sweet but I'm pretty worried about it being a miss with only ~1/3 of the deck being snow permanents and the potential to kill our own creatures randomly as well. At sorcery speed it also competing with Battle at the Bridge. I think it might be better ultimately to play a couple On Thin Ice or Dispatch.
Spine is hilariously castable with Urza (and since he doesn't care about Stony I can see it being a central piece going froward).
I like what you've started with a lot.
How did you feel about the dice factory experiments? I had the same thoughts originally to combo with new Karn and getting Lattice out super fast but numerous games with Cornucopia on 10 doing nothing kinda annoyed me. It was an undoubtedly powerful deck but I kept wanting to cut mana rocks for Bauble's and more prison pieces and it seemed a bit fragmented.
Narset is a sweet tech and fills the role of "searching for a non-land non-creature card" that we've been so desperate for (literally considered playing board the weatherlight). Narset was only a buck at my lgs so I'll probably take it for a spin.
The move to 2 Tolaria West has felt like a huge improvement over what many of us were doing before. Having more avenues to EE, Opal, Welding Jar, Inventor's Fair, etc. has been really nice and it feels like I'm constantly doing something valuable and working towards a plan. It also subs in for a reasonable T1 play in hands where the U mana is more important. Maybe even 3 is correct. As it stands I can't see myself playing 4, we aren't as nearly as heavily reliant on EE/Chalice like the pure prison deck and really need untapped mana on T2/3.
If we are going to be on 2-3 Tolaria West and Inventor's fair, a Tec Edge + Crucible are also going be very strong. I was copying the Syed/McCloud 4 Fetch + 4 Island, and in many games the crucible + fetch's propel the mana far enough that I can easily whir for a Bridge post Shatterstorm. And obviously Inventor's fair doing 2-3 activations closes out a game immediately. I keep going back and forth on it, but I've settled on playing it MB for now. I think this spot is probably best to compare with Azcanta, neither are affected by Stony, generate a slight ramp, and later allow you to pay 4 mana to get ahead. Azcanta cmc conflicts with Foundry/Sword and Crucible conflicts with Bridge/Whir so it's hard to say which is less disruptive to the gameplan.
3 Opal!? I personally saw a noticeable improvement in my win-rate when I finally put $80 down for the 4th copy of Opal a few months back. The ramp is instrumental in getting out the gate against burn, under counter-spells, or casting an Ego before their third Tron land. It's a free win generator. With the London mulligan on the way I think 4 Opal will be the gold standard and I think more success will be found in making the deck work around 4 Opals. If that means 4 Bauble as well, and trimming some of the non-artifact spells I'm more confidant in that approach.
In the SB I've been trying Krosan Grip over Abrupt Decay mostly because Blood Moon is a bit annoying and I don't want to get locked out without the second color source. It's still effectively uncounterable, also kills leylines, and occasionally punishes a greedy tron player. I'm trying to avoid playing a Breeding Pool so I've also upped the Spire of Industry to 3. It's worth noting that Opal + Island + Mountain is enough to EE on 3 and clear a Bloodmoon, so I think the Swamp has really marginal value. I'm on 0 Fatal Push (and 3 Battle in the side) so that could also be influencing my opinions on the Swamp.
As others have said in the past, pure UB is probably where you want to be to have a consistent win % against burn. Not taking damage from lands is essential and the G/R/W cards don't do anything there. Faithless Looting/Serum Visions are great consistency generators but that's one less slot you have for Collective Brutality or Battle at the Bridge and on the draw you might just be dead.
4 Mox Opal is a sticky spot for some people but it seems clear that the point of playing this kind of combo deck is abusing Opal and the chance of drawing 2+ is ~8%, while the draws where it is in hand are what is necessary to get under a Queller/Remand/etc. or complete the combo before dying to some form of aggro.
4 Ensnaring Bridge is probably a more contentious choice. It's somewhat dysynergistic with itself and I've been playing pretty close to this list with 1 Bridge as the Crucible.
A large part of the justification for 2x Tolaria West is that it can be returned from the graveyard after use and also tutor important lands like Tectonic Edge/Inventor's Fair/Academy Ruins. To that end I'm confused there isn't a Crucible of Worlds in the 75. But maybe EE/Opal/Tormod's/Welding Jar/Academy Ruins are enough choices. I regularly get instant concessions the first time I loop an Inventor's Fair with Crucible. It's also worth noting that there aren't a huge number of 1 drops in this list so a tap land on 1 is reasonable in a lot of games.
4 Unmoored Ego out of the side somewhat justifies the lack of a Ghost Quarter or Tec Edge to deal with Tron and other lands matter decks.
Nihil Spellbomb is definitely the most useful Chromatic Star alternative. It's 1 mana more to loop it for a card and a thopter but it just crushes a few matchups that are currently very popular.
Pithing Needle and Damping Sphere have repeatedly proven themselves to be powerful enough for the MB. Witchbane, Torpor Orb, and Tormod's Crypt are a bit loose in my opinion, be he isn't playing Time Sieve so perhaps the extra lockout cards are necessary. I would personally trade all 3 of those for something else. I also wouldn't be suprised if opponents just don't realize that Torpor Orb turns off Thopter Sword. I've watched people execute the combo in person while both are oblivious of a Torpor Orb.
The mana base initially looks kinda all over the place but I think the main theme is 4 unique fetches (avoiding your own pithing needle), 2 Watery Grave, 4 Darkslick Shores, 3 Spire, 3 Island, River or Tears which is usually a B when you need it (Battle at the Bridge or Collective brutality) and U on your opponents turn (Whir of invention), and the usual colorless lands. No Darksteel Citadels.
Sai and Tezzeret out of the SB are the proven alternative win cons. A full 4 Welding Jar/4 Mishra's/4 Opal in the MB make Sai even more attractive than usual. Welding Jar in particular is very good right now against Jund and Rock decks. Grafdiggers Cage is probably better main than Tormod's in my opinoin, and Negate is probably a last minute addition. Battle at the Bridge is so necessary against some decks and I can see up to 3 of those in the SB.
I've been trying to make repeal + chalice a thing recently and it feels good enough to test. The card draw is obviously a non-bo with bridge but the bouncing tends to slow down most clocks enough to work just right. More importantly in post board games you can lock 2 cmc enchantments in your opponents hand, defend important artifacts, or even cycle by bouncing an opal for free. Chalice on 1 offers likely one of the most robust defenses against surgical.