Your reasoning didn't make sense to me. You said that you thought Terry could have lied about being visited, but the people who are checked aren't notified.
Ohhh. No, I said there was potential for people lying about visiting the target they claimed to have visited with the cop shot. That's what we did as the scum team: claiming to visit people (including scum mates) we didn't actually visit. I "visited" Terry because he was likely to get visited or get claimed to have been visited. It has nothing to do with the target itself and otherwise, I would have showed intent to go against Terry. Made no sense for me to townlock him in the situation that I caught him lying, afterall.
Still a false claim in the end, which is something I need to work on.
One was that there wasn't really much for you to watch at night because most of the abilities didn't target at night.
Yup, I talked about that in my claim itself, but I know RE has mentioned another mistake in particular which I don't understand. I think it had to do with me checking you.
I have yet to know what the mistake in my claim was. If a bright mind could enlighten me? Haha.
I was sooo on the verge of claiming vanilla and saying Grape is lying/going for a game-winning mislynch with his check on me but that was a path I wasn't brave enough to take. Plus it would have confirmed Grape as townie had I gotten lynched and I didn't want to ruin my scumbuddies' options.
EL was also a great contributor this game, I want to raise my hat in his direction as well.
Proph, good job building on my posts after my death! You definitely knew how to pair me with others as a scumteam. This was my first time getting lynched as mafia, and I sort of saw it coming once Proph replaced in, haha.
Shadow, that was some great usage of your ability/the cop shots, and really good distancing. I had no idea who you were but with only a few posts in from you I could tell the scumteam was in good hands.
Yup and I'm suddenly paranoid that his read on me is just like everything Shinichi was doing and he's locked in his scum read on me as a town cross vote. Like town can have incredibly inconsistent reads that are hard to follow. We've already seen that this game...
Grape, I'm starting to feel like your thoughts on my scumread on you are very reasonable and come from someone who feels like he is unfairly scumread. That vote-unvote on me just earlier was also very nice. I first thought it was another form of signal to your scumteam saying that you're ready to hammer, but that doesn't really make sense anymore considering that you voting me has become something very natural and no one really expects you to go elsewhere. So you can just put your vote there and wait. If you are scum I don't understand why you would do this. So I can start to see you being town. It's just... that claim, man. That claim sealed the deal for me concerning how I read your slot, and I don't want to ignore that fact.
The most likely team for me if you're town is Proph-RE-shadowlx, but then we're back to the two-goons problems, unless RE made a crazy claim and actually has a PR. Which forces me to look into AG being scum, and with his role on the mafia side, its potential changes drastically as scum know what faction they are giving the shot to and can generate plans from this, so it would be some good scum power and might look quite clean when aligned with a neighborizer which also allows interaction with townies. I simply, very simply don't think that a shot giver is scummy, and his thread presence has been largely positive for me. RE, shadowlx and AG are all revisitable for me. I refuse to think Terry is town at this point, so what I should do right now is determine who between RE and Proph is the mafia, if it's not both. I'm starting with a strong bias against Proph, but I think I just realized I can't afford to wait until toMorrow to look at RE. I'd rather shoot between these two guys than among the PR line-up of Grape, shadow and AG, even though two of these guys are probably scum.
From a pool of LnG, shadowlx, RE and Terry, I need to get three of those on my side, that means every townie other than me.
Seeing how RE is just the most non-involved person ever and just decides to scumread me and townread Proph, shadowlx is on the verge of scumreading everyone except Grape, Terry could go for both me and Grape, and LnG's midset has... actually been decent; I don't see myself getting out of this. It has been a stressful fight, but it's my loss, and town's loss as well.
Scum is too deep into it. They've won town's hearts and they did a good job at it.
This is how easy it is to win LyLos as scum in a 3v4. I've been here before, as scum. And it was just about as easy as fake-claiming a convenient role and going after the easy lynch which everyone had a neutral-to-scummy read on. The elaborate ISO is just bonus to smash the nail in the coffin, I suppose. I'm sorry town, I should have done better, I should have worked to clear myself during the middle stages of the game.
I'm still alive and willing to cooperate and answer questions, if that's anything that could save me. But I'm in a state of exhaustion.
@QH can you just explain your read on me in it's own post. That would help me to understand where your head is.
You want me dead so I want you dead: the classic LyLo situation where OMGUSing is actually valid. Your ISO on me is all wrong. Your claim doesn't sit well with me. Those are the points that matter.
You've said this like ten times. Stop sending signals to your scumbuddies.
Grape, who are my scumbuddies? It wouldn't be dumb to talk about this right now. I don't really want mafia to have an idea of your three scumreads, but I don't really care since you're probably mafia as well. Also, suppose I'm town, who is scum? I'm curious as to how much you want me, and only me, dead.
On another note: my thought process for toNight is this. I plan on targeting RE or Proph. Whoever I target should check Grapefruit, just to make sure. Thoughts?
Umm are you just that convinced that I'm scum and that another night is coming?
Besides, no one is gonna claim a PR as vanilla or the other way around because of your role being in play, and Grape is more than likely a night-visiting mafia PR who I'm suppose to somehow catch, but hey, we can try am I right.
Not really going to respond to QH; he's in a mixture of going into anti-spew and desperately trying to convince Terry to vote me so his scumbuddies can hammer.
What exactly am I anti-spewing? Going after my many-days-old scumread Mr. Proph? Starting my Day by attacking Grape? Starting to subtly doubt RE?
I can convince Terry to vote you all I want, there is not going to be a hammer because you know why. So that's hella marvelous.
These three have been on at kinda separated intervals though. That said, I still don't see scum being cautious about their voting timing right now, since everyone agrees with lynching me.
A votecount would be nice but I definitely don't know why I'm not hammered. So that's what you were getting at when suggesting 2 scum.
Proph, RE and shadow have all posted since Terry's lock on me, I don't know which of them are actually on me, I do know that shadow asked for a votecount though.
I think Terry is not gonna give it a rest no matter what until EoD so yeah. What can I say, scum played well.
@LnG I can't remember that well, his claim had some pretty nice timing with the pressure he had at the time, as for his actual role it was nice to know there was someone who generated night visits. If he had claimed to be a vanilla cop himself, I would have considered his role to be scummy as he would be someone my ability is trying to catch.
@Grape
I do not scumread you because I think your role doesn't work with Rhand. In fact, I think Rhand was a protective role because I don't trust your claim, so it's the other way around. I do think it is extremely risky to assume what Rhand was, and normally I would probably believe more in the fact that the NK was saved by you BP ability. But I start from not trusting your claim (as for the actual reasons I don't trust your claim, I've basically said them already) and work my way from there.
As another point, I don't really understand how my role and LnG's are that much of a dichotomy. LnG's shot can land in any faction's hands, and both of our roles aren't that strong at all, if anything my role is a total joke and has become useless now that I've claimed it, so I'm not sure why I would be scum while LnG's role, which is relatively stronger if the shot lands in scum's hands, is town. I can see this issue with shadowlx and Shinichi too. A crier in town's hands is quite dull if you don't have another ability (e.g. investigative) to warrant speaking anonymously, and I don't think having it as town with shadowlx's role would equal to having too many "communication roles" as people qualified these roles to be. shadowlx's role is strong in a scum faction in good hands and weak in bad hands, but it doesn't have to be him doing the pocketing. He could be town speaking with mafia, and mafia is pocketing him, instead of him being scum and doing the pocketing. So LnG's and shadow's roles are roles that can imply the participation from any faction, thus it is hard to determine whether they really count as town power.
I have seen 12-player games with 2 scums because some hosts prefer to reserve 3-scum games for when there are 15 players, but I'd rather go under the assumption that there are 3 right now. Besides, if there are 2, they'd need some fancy strong PRs.
I don't really feel like going through everything you've said about me in your ISO, but if that's really necessary then I'll have to comply with at least a semi-effort. It's just that I spent my time reading it thinking either "but this is a matter of my playstyle" or "but that's not really scummy by any means" so it mostly came off as you trying to scumread me. I know I could think those two things for everything, afterall the game of mafia is a question of drawing the line between what is NAI and what is prone to being falsely regarded as NAI, so it might seem unfair to you for me to think so, but as a town reading your ISO, I couldn't help but think (and know) that you're wrong about everything.
If you're town and you really did input some effort which I'm just morbidly denying right now because I'm in appearance limiting myself both to your claim and to your scum-favorable timing to push me, to consider you as scum, then that's my bad. At least you're doing a much better job than Proph and his hyper-fabricated reads, which is why I'm for the Proph lynch right now.
I never ignored the dichotomy, I just think it's not relevant. If you really thought such a thing was relevant as well, you would be taking a much more doubtful look at Shadow, and you wouldn't think that the doubts people have on you for being a BP in a setup with a "Deathguard" are unfair. I just don't think this game is gonna be solved by looking at dichotomies. LnG's role work super well with my role if it's a town role.
Ohhh. No, I said there was potential for people lying about visiting the target they claimed to have visited with the cop shot. That's what we did as the scum team: claiming to visit people (including scum mates) we didn't actually visit. I "visited" Terry because he was likely to get visited or get claimed to have been visited. It has nothing to do with the target itself
Still a false claim in the end, which is something I need to work on.
Yup, I talked about that in my claim itself, but I know RE has mentioned another mistake in particular which I don't understand. I think it had to do with me checking you.
I was sooo on the verge of claiming vanilla and saying Grape is lying/going for a game-winning mislynch with his check on me but that was a path I wasn't brave enough to take. Plus it would have confirmed Grape as townie had I gotten lynched and I didn't want to ruin my scumbuddies' options.
EL was also a great contributor this game, I want to raise my hat in his direction as well.
Shadow, that was some great usage of your ability/the cop shots, and really good distancing. I had no idea who you were but with only a few posts in from you I could tell the scumteam was in good hands.
I hard-defended my buddy like crazy and thought I could lose the game because of this, but he got replaced and the slot received some slack. Hurray!
A pleasure playing with you all, sorry to the host about all these replacements and my low activity, but it was a good ride nonetheless.
Can I post now?
It was fun playing with you all. I mean it. Thanks to the host as well.
Grape, I'm starting to feel like your thoughts on my scumread on you are very reasonable and come from someone who feels like he is unfairly scumread. That vote-unvote on me just earlier was also very nice. I first thought it was another form of signal to your scumteam saying that you're ready to hammer, but that doesn't really make sense anymore considering that you voting me has become something very natural and no one really expects you to go elsewhere. So you can just put your vote there and wait. If you are scum I don't understand why you would do this. So I can start to see you being town. It's just... that claim, man. That claim sealed the deal for me concerning how I read your slot, and I don't want to ignore that fact.
The most likely team for me if you're town is Proph-RE-shadowlx, but then we're back to the two-goons problems, unless RE made a crazy claim and actually has a PR. Which forces me to look into AG being scum, and with his role on the mafia side, its potential changes drastically as scum know what faction they are giving the shot to and can generate plans from this, so it would be some good scum power and might look quite clean when aligned with a neighborizer which also allows interaction with townies. I simply, very simply don't think that a shot giver is scummy, and his thread presence has been largely positive for me. RE, shadowlx and AG are all revisitable for me. I refuse to think Terry is town at this point, so what I should do right now is determine who between RE and Proph is the mafia, if it's not both. I'm starting with a strong bias against Proph, but I think I just realized I can't afford to wait until toMorrow to look at RE. I'd rather shoot between these two guys than among the PR line-up of Grape, shadow and AG, even though two of these guys are probably scum.
Seeing how RE is just the most non-involved person ever and just decides to scumread me and townread Proph, shadowlx is on the verge of scumreading everyone except Grape, Terry could go for both me and Grape, and LnG's midset has... actually been decent; I don't see myself getting out of this. It has been a stressful fight, but it's my loss, and town's loss as well.
Scum is too deep into it. They've won town's hearts and they did a good job at it.
This is how easy it is to win LyLos as scum in a 3v4. I've been here before, as scum. And it was just about as easy as fake-claiming a convenient role and going after the easy lynch which everyone had a neutral-to-scummy read on. The elaborate ISO is just bonus to smash the nail in the coffin, I suppose. I'm sorry town, I should have done better, I should have worked to clear myself during the middle stages of the game.
I'm still alive and willing to cooperate and answer questions, if that's anything that could save me. But I'm in a state of exhaustion.
You want me dead so I want you dead: the classic LyLo situation where OMGUSing is actually valid. Your ISO on me is all wrong. Your claim doesn't sit well with me. Those are the points that matter.
You've said this like ten times. Stop sending signals to your scumbuddies.
Grape, who are my scumbuddies? It wouldn't be dumb to talk about this right now. I don't really want mafia to have an idea of your three scumreads, but I don't really care since you're probably mafia as well. Also, suppose I'm town, who is scum? I'm curious as to how much you want me, and only me, dead.
Umm are you just that convinced that I'm scum and that another night is coming?
Besides, no one is gonna claim a PR as vanilla or the other way around because of your role being in play, and Grape is more than likely a night-visiting mafia PR who I'm suppose to somehow catch, but hey, we can try am I right.
What exactly am I anti-spewing? Going after my many-days-old scumread Mr. Proph? Starting my Day by attacking Grape? Starting to subtly doubt RE?
I can convince Terry to vote you all I want, there is not going to be a hammer because you know why. So that's hella marvelous.
Proph, RE and shadow have all posted since Terry's lock on me, I don't know which of them are actually on me, I do know that shadow asked for a votecount though.
I think Terry is not gonna give it a rest no matter what until EoD so yeah. What can I say, scum played well.
@Grape
I do not scumread you because I think your role doesn't work with Rhand. In fact, I think Rhand was a protective role because I don't trust your claim, so it's the other way around. I do think it is extremely risky to assume what Rhand was, and normally I would probably believe more in the fact that the NK was saved by you BP ability. But I start from not trusting your claim (as for the actual reasons I don't trust your claim, I've basically said them already) and work my way from there.
As another point, I don't really understand how my role and LnG's are that much of a dichotomy. LnG's shot can land in any faction's hands, and both of our roles aren't that strong at all, if anything my role is a total joke and has become useless now that I've claimed it, so I'm not sure why I would be scum while LnG's role, which is relatively stronger if the shot lands in scum's hands, is town. I can see this issue with shadowlx and Shinichi too. A crier in town's hands is quite dull if you don't have another ability (e.g. investigative) to warrant speaking anonymously, and I don't think having it as town with shadowlx's role would equal to having too many "communication roles" as people qualified these roles to be. shadowlx's role is strong in a scum faction in good hands and weak in bad hands, but it doesn't have to be him doing the pocketing. He could be town speaking with mafia, and mafia is pocketing him, instead of him being scum and doing the pocketing. So LnG's and shadow's roles are roles that can imply the participation from any faction, thus it is hard to determine whether they really count as town power.
I have seen 12-player games with 2 scums because some hosts prefer to reserve 3-scum games for when there are 15 players, but I'd rather go under the assumption that there are 3 right now. Besides, if there are 2, they'd need some fancy strong PRs.
If you're town and you really did input some effort which I'm just morbidly denying right now because I'm in appearance limiting myself both to your claim and to your scum-favorable timing to push me, to consider you as scum, then that's my bad. At least you're doing a much better job than Proph and his hyper-fabricated reads, which is why I'm for the Proph lynch right now.
I never ignored the dichotomy, I just think it's not relevant. If you really thought such a thing was relevant as well, you would be taking a much more doubtful look at Shadow, and you wouldn't think that the doubts people have on you for being a BP in a setup with a "Deathguard" are unfair. I just don't think this game is gonna be solved by looking at dichotomies. LnG's role work super well with my role if it's a town role.
What comments exactly, LnG?