Has anyone here played a list similar to mine? Posted at the bottom, it's a Rakdos Planeswalker deck that utilizes Ensnaring Bridge. It aims to leave your opponent with creatures that can't attack and removal with no targets. I've run 5 leagues with it now and have a running record of 20-5, with one of them being a 5-0. Currently trying to optimize my sideboard, let me know if you have any ideas.
Decks I've lost to: Burn x2 (Before I had Sun Droplet), Eldrazi Tron, and G/W/x Collected Company x2.
I played a very similar list to yours (Fabiano's) to a 9th place finish (52 players) at a modern IQ last weekend. The deck felt pretty good throughout the day and just had closing speed problems. I don't quite know how to fix that and seems to be the problem this deck has had for awhile. I will be jamming this archtype again for awhile after the break I took from it over the summer.
This is the Sultai build I've run out a handful of times at FNM. Its more of a BG deck splashing blue for Snapcaster, tar pit, and SB cards. I've found that being able to flashback a discard spell turn 3 is quite powerful, along with getting multiple uses out of removal spells. The one of Search for Azcanta is something I'm going to try out soon, but there might not be enough spells in the deck to support it. Scarab god in the board could also be anything else.
A lot of people have mentioned going more down the blue route for Ancestral and MD counters, but I'm really not interested in going that way. I could see maybe trying out Chart a Course for some card advantage and I'd cut Bob if I was going that way. I've found Tracker to be super strong, especially in multiples and can outclass Tasigur in a few turns.
I've been away from Grixis for a long time playing various blood moon and jeskai decks, but am coming back around. I'm interested in the control build and working on Azcanta. Let me know if you have any suggestions and I plan on running this tomorrow so I'll let everyone know how it goes.
I like the look of your list overall and its similar to the idea I had brewing mine up. I've found through playing that the two drop slot is by far the most lacking in BR. I've gone through bitterblossom, bone picker, and pia nalaar (I know, three drop) and can't find the correct fit. Dark confidant might be the best option if you have them available, and is my next test (been jamming rock and skred since I couldn't get this list solid).
Overall I think you would be more successful with more pushes and terminates over bolt. I had gone to 3/3 on push/terminate with no bolts but toyed with having 1-2 bolts for face and spot removal. With the number of spot removal spells you have sweepers become less important and can probably move to the board in order to give you more action spells G1.
My experience with BR is that if you are trying to control the game you need to do something "proactive" and unfair like early blood moons with SSG. The deck lacks the early pressure so needs to lock the opponent out until you can land your four drop bombs.
I've found that 3 collective Brutality is needed to beat burn, at least on the build I have. So far I haven't dropped a match but it is extremely tough and close. Blood moon is suprisingly effective against burn if you can land it early enough to turn off the multicolored spells.
I included two dismember in order to have 1cmc removal against tron since I can't turn on revolt reliably under blood moon. That said, I didn't cast it a lot over the event. I'd say it was an even split between casting for 1, and casting for 3 after top decking it. I think I should keep one and maybe change the other to a Terminate.
Urborg didn't do anything for me or my opponents in the event so I don't have strong feelings for it. I added one canyon slough to the list to test in place of a smoldering marsh. I think it should actually replace the Urborg instead but we will see when I'm able to get some more games in.
I've played a lot of Pyro in the past in grixis where you had access to tons of 1cmc and 0cmc spells to make her great. I'm not sure if br is the right shell for it, but if you can land it on a clear board with low resources I see it being great.
Hey thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it! I constructed the deck with the idea of preying on the greedy mana bases right now, lock the hand with liliana, and land a hasty threat to end the game in a few turns before the OP can recover.
I'd like to keep some number of bitterblossom and stay in two colors for efficiency, so I'm leaning to EE or ratchet bomb. I originally had two ratchet bombs in the side over lost legacy but didn't want to be so cold to combo decks. I'm thinking it might be a MU to not dedicate more to, not sure yet.
I agree rabblemaster is crazy good and can end a game quickly from my skred days. I have a lot of three drops currently and he doesn't provide blockers. The curve is why I'm thinking of moving back to mindstone to cast fours and fives easier, plus it stores a card. I would miss out on potential turn 2 Blood moons and lilianas though.
Bitterblossom was included on paper for endless blockers against shadow.
I've considered bontu in the three drop slot to offset the life loss and give me something to do with mana when living off the top. The indestructible of hazoret really has me liking the Gods against the removal out there right now.
Chandra is definitely the first cut to the list. I've been mulling everything the last day or two and will have an update before fnm.
Hey everyone I've been following this thread a bit and decided to brew up a BR deck to take to a PPTQ this past Sunday. I started with the Skred shell as my base idea then went into black for push and Liliana. I placed 14th out of 99 players and had a blast. However, I'm looking for some feedback from players that have been on this type of deck longer than me. Thanks for any help!
07.16.17: modern pptq
- 14th out of 99 players, with 5-2 record overall.
RD 1: win 2-0, titanshift, on the play.
G1/G2: bitterblossom, blood moon, and liliana doing all the work both games. I could tell the OP was struggling to figure out how to play against my unknown deck.
RD 2: 2-1, grixis delver, on the play.
G1: I mull to 6. Early thoughtseize led me to think OP was on shadow. Ended up losing to double claim//fame on snapcaster mage and young Pyro beats. Two bitterblossom in play helped kill me too.
G2: I mull to 6. I took apart his hand with discard and liliana. Stabileized at one life and hazoret won the game with the shock and swing.
G3: discarded his hand and landed stormbreath which OP had no removal for and it closed the game quick.
RD 3: win 2-1, naya burn, on the play.
G1: Turn one thoughtseize revealed enough burn to kill me. I play it out for a few turns to see if he was on boros or naya and lose a few turns later.
G2: OP opens tapped stomping ground which I turn two fulminator off a SSG and blow up. OP is only able to get two mountains before I blood moon him. Next turn I cast hazoret and he conceads.
G3: Cast double collective brutality for all three modes, blood moon, and stormbreath for the win.
RD 4: win 2-0, grixis death's shadow, on the play.
G1: OP mulled to 5 and see only removal in his hand. I land liliana followed by hazoret for the win.
G2: I mulled to 6 on the draw with no hand disruption. OP plays cantrips and cycles but liliana, removal, and hazoret get the win again.
RD 5: lose 0-2, grixis death's shadow, on the draw.
G1: I didn't see any hand disruption, removal, or blood moon. Opener was land heavy and I should have mulled in retrospect. OP picked apart my hand and killed me with shadow.
G2: I was stuck on two lands while OP had no threats except liliana early on and I couldn't pressure. Finally resolved a bitterblossom but it was too late as his liliana had ultimate once and was still on the battlefield. OP won with ease and this was a lesson in making better keep/mull decisions.
RD 6: lose 0-2, eldrazi tron, on the play.
G1: I mulled to 6 and I didn't see any threats or enough removal this game. I was beat up by matter reshaper and a finishing reality smasher.
G2: I punted this game away hard. I blood moon, he casts ratchet bomb, I liliana, and he casts ballista for two while ticking bomb up to two. I have liliana and Kcommand in hand and move too fast shocking ballista and returning a hazoret from my graveyard to hand. He blows ratchet bomb next turn getting blood moon and liliana. I cast hazoret and discard a ssg to eat an attacking smasher which was neat. He gets another smasher and I have dismember in hand but no other cards to discard; I lose a few turns later. This was a lesson in slowing down and thinking through the turn better because I would most likely have won if I had just shocked ballista and shattered ratchet bomb in the early game.
RD 7: win 2-1, mardu burn, on the play.
G1: Pretty simple he has enough burn to kill me and we move to game two.
G2: This game ends up close but blood moon and liliana do good work to lock the game up. I stabilize at a low life total and precede to land hazoret for the win. Smacking for five a turn and pitching a card for two more is backbreaking.
G3: OP gets early guide which gives me two lands. I collective brutality for all modes to help stabilize. Blood moon and hazoret do all the heavy lifting yet again.
Summary: I had low expectations coming into the PPTQ because I threw the deck together the day before and had zero playtesting with it. However, I was very impressed with how the deck played out and the success I had. I think running a rogue brew threw a lot of OPs off when I turn two cast bitterblossom followed by turn tree blood moon. I think the deck has a solid death's shadow matchup with all the removal and blockers but the list definitely needs some tweaking moving forward.
The deck has a hard time finding threats and closing the game out sometimes. Having some type of card advantage is probably required. I also need to include a way to remove bitterblossom.
- I believe the deck needs another collective brutality in the 75 as life gain is very low.
- I never saw Kalitas in all my games so can't rate his effectiveness, but moving up to two is a consideration.
- Hazoret was an absolute house and isn't going anywhere but possibly up to three.
- Stormbreath was strong as always and has a home here.
- Chandra was very weak in the few games I cast her. I was expecting more out of her +1 but was too far behind for her to be helpful. I think she needs to be a two-of or a zero.
- Bitterblossom was strong but I'm not sure if four is the right number. I could see going down to two or three to make room for other additions.
- SSG was good when I had it in the opener. I think this should be either four or zero. If going to zero I will possibly add mind stone for ramp and to store a card.
I played a very similar list to yours (Fabiano's) to a 9th place finish (52 players) at a modern IQ last weekend. The deck felt pretty good throughout the day and just had closing speed problems. I don't quite know how to fix that and seems to be the problem this deck has had for awhile. I will be jamming this archtype again for awhile after the break I took from it over the summer.
4x Marsh Flats
2x Blood Crypt
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Graven Cairns
5x Swamp
4x Mountain
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Koth of the Hammer
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Ob Nixilis Reignited
3x Fatal Push
4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
2x Night's Whisper
2x Collective Brutality
2x Kolaghan's Command
3x Blood Moon
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Boil
1x Collective Brutality
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Surgical Extraction
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Breeding Pool
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Darkslick Shores
2x Forest
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Tireless Tracker
Instant (8)
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Fatal Push
2x Go for the Throat
Sorcery (8)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Search for Azcanta Flip
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
1x Flaying Tendrils
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Negate
3x Surgical Extraction
1x The Scarab God
This is the Sultai build I've run out a handful of times at FNM. Its more of a BG deck splashing blue for Snapcaster, tar pit, and SB cards. I've found that being able to flashback a discard spell turn 3 is quite powerful, along with getting multiple uses out of removal spells. The one of Search for Azcanta is something I'm going to try out soon, but there might not be enough spells in the deck to support it. Scarab god in the board could also be anything else.
A lot of people have mentioned going more down the blue route for Ancestral and MD counters, but I'm really not interested in going that way. I could see maybe trying out Chart a Course for some card advantage and I'd cut Bob if I was going that way. I've found Tracker to be super strong, especially in multiples and can outclass Tasigur in a few turns.
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Watery Grave
1x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Island
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
Removal (13)
4x Fatal Push
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Terminate
3x Kolaghan's Command
1x Damnation
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
2x Spell Snare
2x Logic Knot
2x Mana Leak
4x Cryptic Command
Card Selection (6)
4x Serum Visions
1x Opt
1x Search for Azcanta
Threats (6)
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Negate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x The Scarab God
1x Wurmcoil Engine
I've been away from Grixis for a long time playing various blood moon and jeskai decks, but am coming back around. I'm interested in the control build and working on Azcanta. Let me know if you have any suggestions and I plan on running this tomorrow so I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Overall I think you would be more successful with more pushes and terminates over bolt. I had gone to 3/3 on push/terminate with no bolts but toyed with having 1-2 bolts for face and spot removal. With the number of spot removal spells you have sweepers become less important and can probably move to the board in order to give you more action spells G1.
My experience with BR is that if you are trying to control the game you need to do something "proactive" and unfair like early blood moons with SSG. The deck lacks the early pressure so needs to lock the opponent out until you can land your four drop bombs.
Urborg didn't do anything for me or my opponents in the event so I don't have strong feelings for it. I added one canyon slough to the list to test in place of a smoldering marsh. I think it should actually replace the Urborg instead but we will see when I'm able to get some more games in.
I've played a lot of Pyro in the past in grixis where you had access to tons of 1cmc and 0cmc spells to make her great. I'm not sure if br is the right shell for it, but if you can land it on a clear board with low resources I see it being great.
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Anger of the gods
Instant
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Dismember
3 Kolaghan’s Command
Enchantment
4 Bitterblossom
4 Blood moon
Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Blood Crypt
1 Canyon Slough
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
5 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Damnation
3 Leyline of the Void
1 By Force
This is what I am considering moving forward. There is still an argument for switching SSG to mind stone or talisman of indulgence.
I'd like to keep some number of bitterblossom and stay in two colors for efficiency, so I'm leaning to EE or ratchet bomb. I originally had two ratchet bombs in the side over lost legacy but didn't want to be so cold to combo decks. I'm thinking it might be a MU to not dedicate more to, not sure yet.
I agree rabblemaster is crazy good and can end a game quickly from my skred days. I have a lot of three drops currently and he doesn't provide blockers. The curve is why I'm thinking of moving back to mindstone to cast fours and fives easier, plus it stores a card. I would miss out on potential turn 2 Blood moons and lilianas though.
Bitterblossom was included on paper for endless blockers against shadow.
I've considered bontu in the three drop slot to offset the life loss and give me something to do with mana when living off the top. The indestructible of hazoret really has me liking the Gods against the removal out there right now.
Chandra is definitely the first cut to the list. I've been mulling everything the last day or two and will have an update before fnm.
3x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
1x Dreadbore
1x Anger of the Gods
Instant
3x Fatal Push
2x Terminate
2x Dismember
3x Kolaghan's Command
Enchantment
4x Bitterblossom
4x Blood Moon
Planeswalker
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature
2x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Marsh Flats
2x Polluted Delta
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Smoldering Marsh
1x Blood Crypt
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Graven Cairns
5x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Anger of the Gods
1x By Force
1x Damnation
4x Fulminator Mage
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Lost Legacy
2x Surgical Extraction
07.16.17: modern pptq
- 14th out of 99 players, with 5-2 record overall.
RD 1: win 2-0, titanshift, on the play.
G1/G2: bitterblossom, blood moon, and liliana doing all the work both games. I could tell the OP was struggling to figure out how to play against my unknown deck.
RD 2: 2-1, grixis delver, on the play.
G1: I mull to 6. Early thoughtseize led me to think OP was on shadow. Ended up losing to double claim//fame on snapcaster mage and young Pyro beats. Two bitterblossom in play helped kill me too.
G2: I mull to 6. I took apart his hand with discard and liliana. Stabileized at one life and hazoret won the game with the shock and swing.
G3: discarded his hand and landed stormbreath which OP had no removal for and it closed the game quick.
RD 3: win 2-1, naya burn, on the play.
G1: Turn one thoughtseize revealed enough burn to kill me. I play it out for a few turns to see if he was on boros or naya and lose a few turns later.
G2: OP opens tapped stomping ground which I turn two fulminator off a SSG and blow up. OP is only able to get two mountains before I blood moon him. Next turn I cast hazoret and he conceads.
G3: Cast double collective brutality for all three modes, blood moon, and stormbreath for the win.
RD 4: win 2-0, grixis death's shadow, on the play.
G1: OP mulled to 5 and see only removal in his hand. I land liliana followed by hazoret for the win.
G2: I mulled to 6 on the draw with no hand disruption. OP plays cantrips and cycles but liliana, removal, and hazoret get the win again.
RD 5: lose 0-2, grixis death's shadow, on the draw.
G1: I didn't see any hand disruption, removal, or blood moon. Opener was land heavy and I should have mulled in retrospect. OP picked apart my hand and killed me with shadow.
G2: I was stuck on two lands while OP had no threats except liliana early on and I couldn't pressure. Finally resolved a bitterblossom but it was too late as his liliana had ultimate once and was still on the battlefield. OP won with ease and this was a lesson in making better keep/mull decisions.
RD 6: lose 0-2, eldrazi tron, on the play.
G1: I mulled to 6 and I didn't see any threats or enough removal this game. I was beat up by matter reshaper and a finishing reality smasher.
G2: I punted this game away hard. I blood moon, he casts ratchet bomb, I liliana, and he casts ballista for two while ticking bomb up to two. I have liliana and Kcommand in hand and move too fast shocking ballista and returning a hazoret from my graveyard to hand. He blows ratchet bomb next turn getting blood moon and liliana. I cast hazoret and discard a ssg to eat an attacking smasher which was neat. He gets another smasher and I have dismember in hand but no other cards to discard; I lose a few turns later. This was a lesson in slowing down and thinking through the turn better because I would most likely have won if I had just shocked ballista and shattered ratchet bomb in the early game.
RD 7: win 2-1, mardu burn, on the play.
G1: Pretty simple he has enough burn to kill me and we move to game two.
G2: This game ends up close but blood moon and liliana do good work to lock the game up. I stabilize at a low life total and precede to land hazoret for the win. Smacking for five a turn and pitching a card for two more is backbreaking.
G3: OP gets early guide which gives me two lands. I collective brutality for all modes to help stabilize. Blood moon and hazoret do all the heavy lifting yet again.
Summary: I had low expectations coming into the PPTQ because I threw the deck together the day before and had zero playtesting with it. However, I was very impressed with how the deck played out and the success I had. I think running a rogue brew threw a lot of OPs off when I turn two cast bitterblossom followed by turn tree blood moon. I think the deck has a solid death's shadow matchup with all the removal and blockers but the list definitely needs some tweaking moving forward.
The deck has a hard time finding threats and closing the game out sometimes. Having some type of card advantage is probably required. I also need to include a way to remove bitterblossom.
- I believe the deck needs another collective brutality in the 75 as life gain is very low.
- I never saw Kalitas in all my games so can't rate his effectiveness, but moving up to two is a consideration.
- Hazoret was an absolute house and isn't going anywhere but possibly up to three.
- Stormbreath was strong as always and has a home here.
- Chandra was very weak in the few games I cast her. I was expecting more out of her +1 but was too far behind for her to be helpful. I think she needs to be a two-of or a zero.
- Bitterblossom was strong but I'm not sure if four is the right number. I could see going down to two or three to make room for other additions.
- SSG was good when I had it in the opener. I think this should be either four or zero. If going to zero I will possibly add mind stone for ramp and to store a card.