It seems good on paper. Here's my take:
I'll be slotting it into a normal Jeskai or Grixis Control shell with 4x Ancestral Vision. Jeskai first for the more relevant sideboard answers and I think it's the better SfA deck, but it could be that the list wants Fatal Push or maybe UR is correct. Not sure yet.
I've run the 4x Ancestral Vision before and felt like it was OK with Search for Azcanta and JTMS as mitigation to either avoid or shuffle back late copies. The T1/T2 suspend of AV was always good. Taking that turn where you draw 3 off AV and 1 for turn and seeing the look of dissatisfaction on your opponent as you go up 7 cards to 3 is very powerful a lot of the time. You reload answers, probably have counter magic and get to continue hitting land drops to push a mana advantage. The mid to late game AV top deck when you really need a good card or something that digs was enough to take them out. You do get into those situations in today's Modern control builds because our CA is so incremental. So it's about the T3 and onward AV we need to focus on because T1/T2 it usually makes sense to suspend it. Even T3 if you have a decent load of answers or your opponent isn't doing much, I'll suspend it.
With EDom, we now have additional ways to mitigate the T3 and onward AV, and not just by avoiding it. We get to ping a creature to death (we'll likely have mana for x=2) and cast our AV at instant speed when it normally would have been a burden. That makes full use of the mana and is an effective 3 for 1. IDK if people are really realizing how powerful it is to EOT take out a small creature and draw 3 at the same time. It's very very good.
Like Secure the Wastes, it has several alternate hidden modes that should make it gel in the context of Modern's diverse requirements for control. You could panic button T2 EDom for x=0 just to change your hand once you know the match-up. If you don't have the AV, 3 mana to ping a 1 toughness creature and bolt/path is still good use of the mana. Late game you get to flash in PW or Verdict. You could use it as a big Fireball to help close the game. Mid game after some Magic has taken place, you can make plays like Snapcaster Mage -> Electrodominance from GY -> Ancestral Vision from hand at instant speed, possibly taking down a creature as well depending on mana available (Cryptic Command is a common snap target, so x=2 is not unreasonable). Resolved PW can be a huge pain and EDom provides a possible out. Finally, it adds a layer of guesswork for your opponent that makes your strategy harder to play around once you hit certain land thresholds. Instant speed Supreme Verdict, EOT JTMS and instant speed Detention Sphere are on the table at their respective mana amounts.
I don't know if it's real, but it seems good on paper to me. I don't know if it's still a Terminus deck or it wants to cut on JTMS now that it has AV for CA. The meta is still blisteringly fast and degenerate so that needs to be taken into account too. I don't really see AV/EDom fixing the graveyard deck problem so I find it likely that the interaction makes the deck stronger but it still just dies to Tron and graveyard decks. I don't much want to be mainboarding Rest in Peace.
I'm really on the fence about Bloodbraid Elf. She's so inconsistent despite having tuned the deck to maximize her. If I swapped her out for Solemn Simulacrum, I could run Engineered Explosives and better removal than Seal of Fire. I'm already taking a risk not willing to remove the 2x Summoner's Pact, which truly feels bad to hit sometimes. Has anyone already faced this problem?
Tireless Tracker is a flex in the main. I sometimes consider replacing it with a quality removal spell to break up infinite combos or a sweeper for Humans and other decks that commit a lot to the board early.
Thought I'd post here to generate some discussion. Any feedback is appreciated. Really liking the deck so far.
I saw that. I'm going to check my cart out soon with the rest of the stuff I need for Storm.
They were consciously specific about Modern in this one:
In the course of discussing options for this announcement, we did discuss unbanning in Modern. However, given the current healthy state of the format and the upcoming Modern Pro Tour, we plan to wait for the results of Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan to evaluate any potential changes for the format. We anticipate making an announcement in February after the results from that tournament come in.
Speaking of which, we do not anticipate making any changes to Modern with the January 15 announcement. We're sensitive to the timing of that announcement relative to the Pro Tour, and only would make a change if it were very clearly needed. Given the current state of the format, we believe that will be extremely unlikely.
I've been looking at jumping on Gifts Storm lately. It looks like it gets a lot of T3 wins. Are people generally OK with this deck? I don't see it talked about as in the ban list cross hairs a lot. Could be that Eldrazi Tron is just that much more offensive that it's been getting the attention.
My usual midrange and control strategies are bad at my LGS right now. It's been overrun by Eldrazi and Tron lands in general.
Im a big fan of the new cryptic command art think i'll be trading in my current playset for them.
How is lost legacy and pull from tomorrow been for you? i liked playing the cards in standard, but am unsure of how they are for modern.
Has anyone tried using a Big game hunter for SB tech yet?
@EarthcraftElves: I used to play the combo when i missed playing splinter twin, but instead of a 3rd Kiki Jiki i used a Necrotic Ooze as a weaker version of Kiki Jiki, Tasigur, and Fulminator Mage since we play thought scours usually to enable snapcaster and delve. Best thing i ever did was wipe out someones manabase once.
I have liked Pull from Tomorrow. Since it's instant speed, it's passable at 4 cmc EOT. I really hope to draw it mid-game when I really want to re-fuel. I will say that the effect is less good in my build than Sphinx's Revelation in Esper because I have a lower land count with much more efficient spells on average. Even with 22 lands, I still find myself getting pretty high in land count by the end of a lot of games though.
Lost Legacy is mostly for TitanShift. I often name Scapeshift first and then plan to deal with the Prime Times. An ideal G2/G3 against TitanShift with Lost Legacy is to T3 exile Scapeshift and then T5 Snapcaster Mage -> Lost Legacy and hit Prime Time. After all of this, you can still unbelievably lose to natural Valakut triggers if you don't close the game quickly enough. My combo helps a lot here but Tasigur goes to work if available too.
Random question, what do y'all think the change to Planeswalker rules does for the chances of JTMS getting unbanned, ever?
The planeswalker rules change probably doesn't affect their decision to unban JTMS or not. If there was another Jace at a different CMC that was playable in Modern, it might be a problem. Assume if you want a lot of 4 cmc planeswalkers, you're playing 4x JTMS first. I don't foresee decks running that plus a copy or two of JAoT for example.
In reality, I don't even think you max out on JTMS. That's just asking to get killed by TitanShift, Affinity, Zoo, Storm or some other fast deck. I was thinking 2 copies. You'd use it to help close the game, but it helps to draw it after you've survived the initial dangers in the first 4 turns. 2-3 copies and cantrips should help with that.
BTW, I would love to see him unbanned to see what new decks he enables. Probably gives Uxx control a replacement for JAoT, maybe gives people a reason to use Sultai colors and could enable a janky Miracles deck to exist.
I worry about the non-creature decks like TitanShift with this one. I think to make it more competitive, I'd focus on speeding up the goldfish clock. What about a light red splash to enable Aspect of Hydra + Temur Battle Rage?
I've been playing a Kiki-Jiki combo/control list to good local success. I've 4-0'd several times when I hit my match-ups right. Otherwise, 3-1 is common. I feel like switching to a more traditional strategy. I'm a little worried about making my TitanShift match-up worse though since it was already shaky. How are your AV/Tasigur lists doing against TitanShift? Do you sideboard anything special?
I'm really hoping to Mana Leak a ramp spell or Fulminator Mage to slow them down and then jam my combo T5, not playing around Lightning Bolt. If they bolt Kiki-Jiki, I have to either try for another combo (maybe recur from Kolaghan's Command) or Bolt/Snapcaster/Manlands.
Anyways, I like AV in these lists. I'm considering going with the 3x Tasigur style lists that Burkhart popularized or return to trying Goblin Dark-Dwellers again.
I'll be slotting it into a normal Jeskai or Grixis Control shell with 4x Ancestral Vision. Jeskai first for the more relevant sideboard answers and I think it's the better SfA deck, but it could be that the list wants Fatal Push or maybe UR is correct. Not sure yet.
I've run the 4x Ancestral Vision before and felt like it was OK with Search for Azcanta and JTMS as mitigation to either avoid or shuffle back late copies. The T1/T2 suspend of AV was always good. Taking that turn where you draw 3 off AV and 1 for turn and seeing the look of dissatisfaction on your opponent as you go up 7 cards to 3 is very powerful a lot of the time. You reload answers, probably have counter magic and get to continue hitting land drops to push a mana advantage. The mid to late game AV top deck when you really need a good card or something that digs was enough to take them out. You do get into those situations in today's Modern control builds because our CA is so incremental. So it's about the T3 and onward AV we need to focus on because T1/T2 it usually makes sense to suspend it. Even T3 if you have a decent load of answers or your opponent isn't doing much, I'll suspend it.
With EDom, we now have additional ways to mitigate the T3 and onward AV, and not just by avoiding it. We get to ping a creature to death (we'll likely have mana for x=2) and cast our AV at instant speed when it normally would have been a burden. That makes full use of the mana and is an effective 3 for 1. IDK if people are really realizing how powerful it is to EOT take out a small creature and draw 3 at the same time. It's very very good.
Like Secure the Wastes, it has several alternate hidden modes that should make it gel in the context of Modern's diverse requirements for control. You could panic button T2 EDom for x=0 just to change your hand once you know the match-up. If you don't have the AV, 3 mana to ping a 1 toughness creature and bolt/path is still good use of the mana. Late game you get to flash in PW or Verdict. You could use it as a big Fireball to help close the game. Mid game after some Magic has taken place, you can make plays like Snapcaster Mage -> Electrodominance from GY -> Ancestral Vision from hand at instant speed, possibly taking down a creature as well depending on mana available (Cryptic Command is a common snap target, so x=2 is not unreasonable). Resolved PW can be a huge pain and EDom provides a possible out. Finally, it adds a layer of guesswork for your opponent that makes your strategy harder to play around once you hit certain land thresholds. Instant speed Supreme Verdict, EOT JTMS and instant speed Detention Sphere are on the table at their respective mana amounts.
I don't know if it's real, but it seems good on paper to me. I don't know if it's still a Terminus deck or it wants to cut on JTMS now that it has AV for CA. The meta is still blisteringly fast and degenerate so that needs to be taken into account too. I don't really see AV/EDom fixing the graveyard deck problem so I find it likely that the interaction makes the deck stronger but it still just dies to Tron and graveyard decks. I don't much want to be mainboarding Rest in Peace.
Nah, check again. It says "an opponent controls".
4x Renegade Rallier
4x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Tireless Tracker
4x Primeval Titan
4x Search for Tomorrow
3x Farseek
2x Seal of Fire
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Summoner's Pact
4x Scapeshift
3x Cinder Glade
2x Forest
5x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
3x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Damping Sphere
1x Fracturing Gust
2x Hour of Devastation
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Vexing Shusher
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I'm really on the fence about Bloodbraid Elf. She's so inconsistent despite having tuned the deck to maximize her. If I swapped her out for Solemn Simulacrum, I could run Engineered Explosives and better removal than Seal of Fire. I'm already taking a risk not willing to remove the 2x Summoner's Pact, which truly feels bad to hit sometimes. Has anyone already faced this problem?
Tireless Tracker is a flex in the main. I sometimes consider replacing it with a quality removal spell to break up infinite combos or a sweeper for Humans and other decks that commit a lot to the board early.
Thought I'd post here to generate some discussion. Any feedback is appreciated. Really liking the deck so far.
They were consciously specific about Modern in this one:
In the course of discussing options for this announcement, we did discuss unbanning in Modern. However, given the current healthy state of the format and the upcoming Modern Pro Tour, we plan to wait for the results of Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan to evaluate any potential changes for the format. We anticipate making an announcement in February after the results from that tournament come in.
Speaking of which, we do not anticipate making any changes to Modern with the January 15 announcement. We're sensitive to the timing of that announcement relative to the Pro Tour, and only would make a change if it were very clearly needed. Given the current state of the format, we believe that will be extremely unlikely.
My usual midrange and control strategies are bad at my LGS right now. It's been overrun by Eldrazi and Tron lands in general.
I have liked Pull from Tomorrow. Since it's instant speed, it's passable at 4 cmc EOT. I really hope to draw it mid-game when I really want to re-fuel. I will say that the effect is less good in my build than Sphinx's Revelation in Esper because I have a lower land count with much more efficient spells on average. Even with 22 lands, I still find myself getting pretty high in land count by the end of a lot of games though.
Lost Legacy is mostly for TitanShift. I often name Scapeshift first and then plan to deal with the Prime Times. An ideal G2/G3 against TitanShift with Lost Legacy is to T3 exile Scapeshift and then T5 Snapcaster Mage -> Lost Legacy and hit Prime Time. After all of this, you can still unbelievably lose to natural Valakut triggers if you don't close the game quickly enough. My combo helps a lot here but Tasigur goes to work if available too.
Unrelated, is anyone testing Search for Azcanta?
The planeswalker rules change probably doesn't affect their decision to unban JTMS or not. If there was another Jace at a different CMC that was playable in Modern, it might be a problem. Assume if you want a lot of 4 cmc planeswalkers, you're playing 4x JTMS first. I don't foresee decks running that plus a copy or two of JAoT for example.
In reality, I don't even think you max out on JTMS. That's just asking to get killed by TitanShift, Affinity, Zoo, Storm or some other fast deck. I was thinking 2 copies. You'd use it to help close the game, but it helps to draw it after you've survived the initial dangers in the first 4 turns. 2-3 copies and cantrips should help with that.
BTW, I would love to see him unbanned to see what new decks he enables. Probably gives Uxx control a replacement for JAoT, maybe gives people a reason to use Sultai colors and could enable a janky Miracles deck to exist.
Do any of you mess around with other combos like
Imperious Perfect + Intruder Alarm + any mana producing elf
or
Elvish Archdruid + Staff of Domination + 3 other elves
Please reprint Peregrine Drake so we can build ETB centric Eldrazi Displacer decks.
Thanks
Here's my Kiki-Jiki list today.
My plan against TitanShift now is something like
-2 Kolaghan's Command
-4 Ancestral Vision
+2 Lost Legacy
+3 Fulminator Mage
+1 Negate
I'm really hoping to Mana Leak a ramp spell or Fulminator Mage to slow them down and then jam my combo T5, not playing around Lightning Bolt. If they bolt Kiki-Jiki, I have to either try for another combo (maybe recur from Kolaghan's Command) or Bolt/Snapcaster/Manlands.
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Deceiver Exarch
3x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instants
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Fatal Push
2x Terminate
3x Kolaghan's Command
1x Dispel
2x Mana Leak
3x Cryptic Command
1x Pull from Tomorrow
Sorceries
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Serum Visions
1x Blood Crypt
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Spirebluff Canal
3x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Wandering Fumarole
2x Watery Grave
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Damnation
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Negate
2x Lost Legacy
Anyways, I like AV in these lists. I'm considering going with the 3x Tasigur style lists that Burkhart popularized or return to trying Goblin Dark-Dwellers again.