DV/Killjoy/Grape
if anyone is interested
but like its literally impossible to remove Cantrip, there isn't anything specific that screams townie
Dota is easier because I can see his vote coming from town
Literal same reason for voting me for voting Grape.
Yeah I'm sold on this.
And he didn't even seem to suspect me till I pointed it out to him that I was scum reading two of his town core. Definitely felt like he had a "crap I should be scum reading him" moment.
Revisionist history.
I started to work you out of my townreads at the time of this post.
That's kinda his point. This is kinda the reason I'm town reading you though, because you've stuck to this sort of interpretation. You said I'm gaslighting you, but to me you are very non-exact in your thinking. An example of this is where you said you were town reading Grape early but really it was midgame. Its a reflection of how you think. A lot of what you are saying is a little too generalized for me, and in your mind you are being truthful. Another example of this was where you said the Osie sounding board thing, and I'm pointing out that just isn't the case. You may have used him as a sounding board, but the record of what you have posted does not reflect that. Sure you can post hoc try and say it was otherwise, but why in the world would I believe you? This game is about lying, scum lie all the time.
If I had to take a stab at the differences between Proph in Seasons and this game is that in Seasons he was non-combative, and a lot more of "Sir what do you think of X" Basically under the radar posting to an extent.
Do I see things that mirror his posting here... Yes. But that could be his scum game mimicking his town game. Really what I'm left with is if Proph's playstyle is largely non-combative in Seasons, would his response be here to just go all out with me. Perhaps, because its the last game he wants to go full bore, something for me to think about. But at the end of the day right now, I'm of the opinion that he doesn't.
Vote GJ
GJ's posting has basically been ATE. Going back here, thinking about the lower posters.
Right now KJ doesn't look great, but I don't think his play is really outside of his town range.
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I don't really see how Proph getting mad at me is really anything to do with me.
I've just asked him to explain his reads and he has gotten madder and madder over it.
That last post was a big dry /s from me but also a point where Proph is scum reading me but complaining about me not changing my mind.
Meanwhile you are not going to vote anyone because I guess you don't want to win? But please tell me more about how you dislike my playstyle while you throw the game by not participating or voting. Please enlighten me on how much fun that is to play with.
I need to take a break from this stupid game; I'm getting way too invested in quotewalling with DV when I know he won't change his mind.
I don't know what the vote count is, but I'm willing to vote on any of KJ, Grape, or DoTA to get a counterwagon going.
Hey man I think you forgot that you were scum reading me so why would you want me to change my mind?
Also wasn't Dota higher on the list than me what changed?
Here I got what you can tell other people when they ask:
Out of all of the votes on the Crossbell wagon, Dota's feels the most agenda-driven. With an exception, he's been pretty gung-ho about not liking Crossbell or I. I fear that he may be trying to chain mislunches (he's tunnelling Crossbell, then when he flips town he will shift to focus to me)
So here's my explanation as to why I think Osie is town. Keep in mind that I'm like.. 70% confident on this - I've interacted with Osie a lot, but it's rare for us to be in any games together. As a result, I don't have a great framework for what his scumrange is. Hence why people (namely Wisp) have gotten the impression that I'm sort of wishy-washy on me defending him - I just don't want to be /wrong/. I like to think that one of my strengths is identifying and preventing the mislunch of low-hanging fruit players, but I'm just consistently terrified of being wrong and being a virtual asset to the scum team, hence the second-guessing. Here goes though:
First off, I had kind of a null-slightly negative impression of Osie's posts. He was playing intentionally curt, which is something I've seen from Osie in the past (he likes to give strong reads with little explanation of his mindset or how he got that way), which is why I asked him to clarify/expand on his reasoning in #71.
Then he posts his #98 read wall, which was just way too early for something like that. I skimmed through the wall without fully digesting it, and my first gut impression was also negative. But given that Osie copied my avatar across an old site and was trying to roleplay/emulate my playstyle, I kind of accepted it as null since I know I have a habit of jumping the gun too early. This is what I said at the time:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I'll look at/respond to Cross's wall in the morning. Preliminary thoughts are that the wall feels like it's trying to roleplay/emulate me, but I also find objectively speaking that posting a huge read wall when most players (Cantrip, KJ, DoTA, Axel) have not really sat down and played the game yet is.. not the best look?
I'm all for more discussion, but the wallpost feels intentionally played up - which is easily explained by the fact that the account holder behind the Crossbell alt is deliberately trying to emulate my posting style. Blegh.
I watched Osie interact with Wisp here (on page 3) and I also felt that they were trying to lean into the roleplay harder, with stuff like the Minamimoto image, the "lols" and "lmaos" at end of sentences, and off-the-cuff responses without punctuation (#113). I prodded with them about their Wisp progression and their response was fine.
I then went back on page 4 and actually took time to read and comprehend their wall on post 98 instead of just skimming it, and I did not find many major structural problems with the post. Yes, overeager, yes, deliberately trying to emulate my style, but I didn't think it came from a malicious mindset. Again, you can see me comprehend the post here:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I like how you charted your thought process behind your Wisp read; I have a different perspective on his first couple of posts but I'll get into that after I've finished catching up. I don't think Grape has done much of anything alignment indicative thus far - I'll try to sort him as the Day progresses.
I think DV is playing very intentionally curt, and I remember I could find him as town in past games by watching how he explains his thought process and mindset. So far, he's mostly tunneling me and you. I want him to hopefully disengage a bit and focus more on the other players OR talk to/engage with us since we both are pretty active posters at the moment.
IMO, you're jumping the gun with Axel, and I think his alignment should become clearer as Day 1 progresses. Not sure how this will manifest in this game, but the Axel I know isn't a huge Day 1 poster and generally locks things up more towards the mid/endgame. It's been a long while since he randed wolf, but I don't think his wolf game is of particular note? I'm pretty sure his last wolf game was Amistarian III, and his team kinda lurked until they lost. So unless he's wolfed offsite or something, or gotten better at wolfing since that game, I would wait and see WRT his alignment.
So I went into this wall expecting to critique a fair bit of Crossbell's process but I can sort of see where they're coming from. I'll take a look at their more recent big wallpost in a bit.
I keep interacting with Osie and I am using him sort of a sounding board to re-evaluate my own reads, like the one scumread I had on Wisp at the time:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Crossbell had a good point where him getting frustrated with dealing with both of us might point to him being town, though - but I still having a lot of concerns/misgivings about Wisp that I will hopefully get the chance to air out... right now.
Quote from Crossbell »
With 2 miselims and 2 scum, this is effectively a micro, my home turf. Solving the micros quickly and off of hard and fast worldbuilding is usually more effective than hoping you're going to get a ton of information out of two and a half day phases maximum, IMO.
I also bought this from him as an explanation as to why he was trying to read so hard into scraps.
Now I post my townread on Osie here:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
My sole townread at this point is Crossbell because 1) I think they're thinking about the game in a fairly nuanced fashion, 2) I think the early wagon on them was pushed in bad faith, and 3) sort by postcount become werewolf expert.
He was playing in a pretty disorganized fashion, but I could see how he was trying to work, talk, and engage with other players. His scumread on Axelrod based on his awkward opener made sense (even if I disagreed about pressuring him at the time), and it parallels what I saw with regards to Wisp. He was talking to Wisp and amped up the roleplay to see how he'd react, and came out of it from a null read to a townread of Wisp. He was trying to sort out his DoTA read here before eventually deciding to vote him with me:
Quote from Crossbell »
I kinda think that DoTA actually believes what he's saying despite having the tonal dissonance of a chromatic scale of tritones.
He kind of had lower activity at this point and then he replaced out, so yeah.
tl;dr - I just don't see the maliciousness. Osie was super over the top and hyperactive, but I think he has constant foot-in-mouth syndrome like me, and that was even more amplified because he chose to intentionally emulate my posting style. I feel like if he randed scum this game, he would have been a lot more reserved and play more by-the-book rather than ruffle people's feathers early.
A) Just to point out in this he says he used Osie as a sounding board for his Wisp read. Despite him saying that he came to that conclusion on his own.
I looked at some older games, reread Wisp's ISO, tried to put myself in his town shoes and... I no longer believe that he is scum. On the contrary, I think he is actually leaning town.
My bad.
B) He says Osie was disorganized, yet Osie claimed to have been hyper aware of everything he was posting. And that he was aware of all the interactions he was causing. And Osie said it was all going according to plan.
C) Proph seems to have ignored all of the bad people are seeing in Osie.
Think you dying tonight. You or Axel.
Cause Mafia ain't shooting me or Wisp
Then I think I'm pretty convinced that scum team is Cantrip/KJ.
Somebody would have to do some work to convince me on Grape.
I thought you were checked out?
You've basically been non-existent too. Don't flame KJ when you can look in the mirror.
But CFD onto KJ looks like out of the question. I really have no desire to do this again in 24 hours.
That's kinda his point. This is kinda the reason I'm town reading you though, because you've stuck to this sort of interpretation. You said I'm gaslighting you, but to me you are very non-exact in your thinking. An example of this is where you said you were town reading Grape early but really it was midgame. Its a reflection of how you think. A lot of what you are saying is a little too generalized for me, and in your mind you are being truthful. Another example of this was where you said the Osie sounding board thing, and I'm pointing out that just isn't the case. You may have used him as a sounding board, but the record of what you have posted does not reflect that. Sure you can post hoc try and say it was otherwise, but why in the world would I believe you? This game is about lying, scum lie all the time.
Thanks
Do I see things that mirror his posting here... Yes. But that could be his scum game mimicking his town game. Really what I'm left with is if Proph's playstyle is largely non-combative in Seasons, would his response be here to just go all out with me. Perhaps, because its the last game he wants to go full bore, something for me to think about. But at the end of the day right now, I'm of the opinion that he doesn't.
Vote GJ
GJ's posting has basically been ATE. Going back here, thinking about the lower posters.
Right now KJ doesn't look great, but I don't think his play is really outside of his town range.
Really don't want to be back in a bit. Wait isn't it almost 11PM EST? So we got like an hour 15 right now right?
I don't really see how Proph getting mad at me is really anything to do with me.
I've just asked him to explain his reads and he has gotten madder and madder over it.
That last post was a big dry /s from me but also a point where Proph is scum reading me but complaining about me not changing my mind.
Meanwhile you are not going to vote anyone because I guess you don't want to win? But please tell me more about how you dislike my playstyle while you throw the game by not participating or voting. Please enlighten me on how much fun that is to play with.
Hey man I think you forgot that you were scum reading me so why would you want me to change my mind?
Also wasn't Dota higher on the list than me what changed?
Here I got what you can tell other people when they ask:
Out of all of the votes on the Crossbell wagon, Dota's feels the most agenda-driven. With an exception, he's been pretty gung-ho about not liking Crossbell or I. I fear that he may be trying to chain mislunches (he's tunnelling Crossbell, then when he flips town he will shift to focus to me)
B) He says Osie was disorganized, yet Osie claimed to have been hyper aware of everything he was posting. And that he was aware of all the interactions he was causing. And Osie said it was all going according to plan.
C) Proph seems to have ignored all of the bad people are seeing in Osie.