Yes, both are far too time-consuming and impracticable.
Very long time, but I was lurking and saw this so I figured I'd reply.
I haven't worked on my cube in literal years now, but when I was using it at my LGS it was a 360 ->720 expandable cube. It wasn't any more time consuming than any other cube I have had to keep together. Is it harder than just throwing a bunch of cards into a case, pulling them back out again? Sure. Of course it is. It's complicated and impractical in the way that choosing between baking a hot pocket for 28 mins and micro waving it for 2 mins is in comparison.
My 720 card cube, which at it's height was drafted with 14 people, usually hung around 7-11 people though. Even after that was done though, I could rebuild the cube back to it's original form in like an hour. I would know which colored band corresponded to which cube. I had master lists for everything and honestly after you played with it as much I did, you just knew where everything went.
Up until covid, I was working on my new version of the expandable cube sending it up to scarcely believable 1080 cube so I could go back to my LGS again. This would also be the maximum I would ever consider letting a cube draft get to. It would be able to host three 8 player pods. More importantly, if you ever go past 1080, you have now exited realm of power 360 territory.
See, in 360 card cubes that are powered they will always have the power 9 and on top of that basically contain the top 3 cards of any section in the strongest of strong cubes. We're talking things that almost will never leave a cube. The sol rings, the dual lands, the power 9, the great counter spells, card draw, and aggro cards.
When we originally drafted, I wanted to make sure those cards that were in the 360 card cube were distributed as close to fairly as I could get them. So you might see packs where there were 2 red band (360 packs), and 1 540 pack. I would never include the 720 booster cards unless the number of people warranted it. And I would always make sure a person would get to crack one 360 cube booster. There was never a person who got stuck with something like 450/540/720 booster.
If I ever finish the project again, given how disgustingly powerful MTG has come since I was really paying attention to this forum (2008-2012) it would be a much easier thing to manage. The power level of a 360 card cube of 2009 can be watered down a bit with all the cards to choose from of today.
A cube size of 1080 though (45 cards a person = 24 people), could still be created though with the care that everyone would crack a 360 booster. It may piss on the idea of the critical mass archetypes.
But my experience, playing with your personal kitchen table group vs rando LGS people every weekend they really don't go about drafting cube the same at all. It's such a mixed bag of people bringing all their own experiences and skills of playing magic that the archetypes don't get picked up anyway. Still leads to amazing mid-ranged jank decks of brutal power levels.
If I ever finish proxying the cube I'll update here some day.
Anyway, hi wtwlf123 long time thanks for keeping this section of the internet updated with you cube still I use it as my base :).
I did give it a try when play testing it, it's slow, requires me to forgo all basic lands. Given the fact it alone pushes the price way to far out of my reach I'm not that interested in it. I do have 1 hermit druid laying around I could include, but it just doesn't seem to bulldoze through my deck like most things.
Huh? I don't buy any of this lol. To me, the only strike against Hermit Druid is that it's oppressive. What part of it is slow? It comes down on turn 2 and worst cast scenario you pay 1 to draw a card on turn 3. Still, more often than not it's "draw a card and mill some stuff" which is ideal given what your deck is trying to do. Your current manabase is perfectly adequate since 9 basics puts you in the powerful-yet-not-broken range. Without going too deep into the math you're going to mill 4.5 cards on average and so that's effectively "pay 1, draw a card, mill 4-5 cards" and you get to that every turn for the rest of the game if you want. That's obscene and I would blindly play 4 of those.
Still, none of this is to say that you should play with Hermit Druid. I recommend leaving it in the binder. However, that's 100% purely because the card is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too good and has no place in "reasonable" Magic games.
No offense dude, You've had this attitude since old school wizard forums days but when you have 1 and only one, it's not a when you drop i turn 2. That isn't realistic and you know it lol.
I did give it a try when play testing it, it's slow, requires me to forgo all basic lands. Given the fact it alone pushes the price way to far out of my reach I'm not that interested in it. I do have 1 hermit druid laying around I could include, but it just doesn't seem to bulldoze through my deck like most things.
Valid points, honestly I was building off the construct of the post I linked. I had been shifted a lot of those copies up and down as I went. The Nyx Spider was included not for it's reach on a 2/3 body but the ability to return something. I also realize that tutors exist and eternal witness and many of its clones exist. I am trying to keep this under 20.00. But I think switching it up may add a couple bucks. Brawn is something I forgot all about. I will be adding them. The lifegain critter isn't important to me and neither is lifegain exactly.
So I've gotten some people at work started on magic. I've been looking for a new deck and I've always loved G/B recursion or/and graveyard fun but I can't afford Survival/Recurring Nightmare and I doubt I would play it anyway if I could. This was just under 20 for the majority of the cards, some I already have. I noticed this deck on this post right here! I fell in love. I have been playtesting around with this for about a month and I really enjoyed what I have right now.
I wanted to explain some of the card choices that were not found in the other deck list. If they are found in other deck lists I apologize for not citing your deck.
Nyx Weaver - I noticed in the first incarnation of this deck I kept milling important cards, a recurring nightmare, a tortured existence. This little guy counts a black creature for the crypt, it lets me find it as a creature, it's a decent creature for early defense, it mills if you want to keep it out, and of course most importantly it can regrowth at instant speed.
Recurring Nightmare - I own one. Sue me. I got it in an exodus pack in fall '98 lol. No brainer.
Dakmor Salvage - Fits the theme, the deck is mana hungry as all hell, and helps early on if you just want to get the engine going.
Diabolic Servitude - Great target for Nyx or Commune. The obvious trick is if you have Tortured Existence out, to return a creature you got with it to your hand when it triggers. If it can't find the creature anymore, you don't have to exile that creature. You do get to return DS back!
I absolutely love the Archfiend control, the world shaper, and cagebreakers.
**After thorough research and consideration, we at KMC Sleeves USA, would like to provide information and clarification regarding the perceived quality issues with our sleeves in recent times; and issue an official statement elucidating our operations, in hopes that full transparency will help answer further questions and concerns.**
Since 1995, we have supplied the United States card game community with the KMC sleeves they have grown to love. However, we are not the Japan-based KMC Corporation and thus do not manufacture the product. KMC Sleeves USA is an independent exclusively authorized importer of the KMC product. We purchase from the factory in Japan and sell the product to United States distributors and retailers. Through the years we have built a great relationship with the KMC manufacturing company in Japan and they have placed their trust in us ensure that their business thrives in the United States. We have strict quality control standards for the sleeves that we import into the US, as it is important that we consistently deliver a great product.
When rumors of an "owner" and/or "formula change" began to surface accompanied by an increasing perception that the sleeve quality had diminished, we were genuinely concerned and confused. We had not received any complaints from our distributors or retail stores regarding the quality of our product, yet customers were claiming to notice a difference. We took this customer feedback to the factory in attempts to discover the source. After a thorough investigation of all products at the production level, we were able to identify that the Silver Hyper Mats had failed our quality control standards. As unfortunate as this was, we were relieved to have identified the problem and looked forward to reestablishing consumer confidence in the KMC product. However, it did not stop there as customers were still reporting that the product was not up to par.
More recently, and with the help of our supportive customers base, we were able to identify that over 90% of those who reported problems with our sleeves had purchased from overseas retailers on Amazon. Our investigation has found that a multitude of overseas sellers claiming to sell KMC product began heavily populating on Amazon circa 2015, such a timeline aligns with the perceived degradation of KMC product quality. It is vital that we clarify to all of our customers that KMC Sleeves USA does not supply these online, overseas retailers. As such, the quality control standards, product origin, and even product authenticity are unknown. Please be advised that we are now working closely with the KMC factory in Japan to discover the nature and authenticity of these overseas online sellers. However, as is the case with any brand, grey market and b-stock product will unfortunately make their way into consumer hands. With the advent of online retailers such as Amazon and eBay, it becomes a difficult task for us to eliminate and/or prevent all illegitimate sellers on the online marketplace. KMC Sleeves USA does not have an official seller's account on Amazon or eBay at this time. If you have purchased product from these sites and are unhappy with the quality, we strongly encourage you to file a complaint and request for refund with that retailer on the grounds of receiving defective product. Since we do not supply these retailers, we do not stand behind their product and can provide no quality guarantees.
That being said, the best way for you, our customers, to know if you are purchasing the authentic KMC product you love is to purchase exclusively from United States retailers. We have strived for decades to bring you a quality product you can trust. Whenever you purchase from a United States retailer you can feel secure in knowing that we will back our product 100%.
We sincerely appreciate the continued support and hope this provides clarification and renewed confidence in KMC Sleeves USA.
I'm bringing this back online. It's a work in progress right now. But, I have updated the FAQ. I'll get getting 540 cube contents soon. Working on creating my other cards for 1080-1620.
mean while - a picture of all 36 boosters shuffled. I'm quite proud of how these turned out. And it'll help my players (especially new players) be able to read and understand each card. My old cube sacrificed text for art, which was fine for veterans and really hurt new players.
My goal is to revive cube drafting events in my LGS area. We used to draft as many as 20-24 people every weekend.
3, Tap equipped creature: The next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn gains, Storm, Flash, Conspire, Retrace, Wither, Gravestorm, or Split Second. Unequip Wizard's Robe.
Equip 1
Only the greatest of mages can withstand the power.
When River Ravine Enters the battlefield, draw a card.
T: Add or to your mana pool. River Ravine doesn't untap during your next untap step.
I think I would like it like the Ravnica lands let it come into play tapped and then you get to draw a card and if you don't put a card on top of your library it doesn't untap next turn
Not for me, I didn't even like transform cards to begin with, but I've broken down and added them anyway. Now if you were to some how consolidate all the cards from the print this card thread into a cube, and play with it, that would be interesting.
Choose up to three target creatures. Shakedown deals damage to target player equal to two times the total converted mana cost of the target creatures unless it's controller sacrifices them.
I for one am ecstatic that there is a real power cream now that I'm starting to get a little bit more time in my non-work hours I plan on taking my Cube back to my local game store and I fully intend on watching that Q get to as large as 1080 a lot of the gamers at least in my meta don't mind the power creep.
we used to run magical hacker because Turn 3 Jace bellerin nuke in your library was something crazy...
In the long run it all depends on your drafters when I'm just playing at the kitchen table I'm generally playing with some skilled individuals when I'm playing at the local game store you have a real good mix of people who hardly ever draft people who don't care about drafting but are good at Magic the Gathering and then you have people who are really good at drafting
when you get a mix of people like that you can never really count on are types coming together correctly and a lot of the times people still hate draft
Very long time, but I was lurking and saw this so I figured I'd reply.
I haven't worked on my cube in literal years now, but when I was using it at my LGS it was a 360 ->720 expandable cube. It wasn't any more time consuming than any other cube I have had to keep together. Is it harder than just throwing a bunch of cards into a case, pulling them back out again? Sure. Of course it is. It's complicated and impractical in the way that choosing between baking a hot pocket for 28 mins and micro waving it for 2 mins is in comparison.
My 720 card cube, which at it's height was drafted with 14 people, usually hung around 7-11 people though. Even after that was done though, I could rebuild the cube back to it's original form in like an hour. I would know which colored band corresponded to which cube. I had master lists for everything and honestly after you played with it as much I did, you just knew where everything went.
Up until covid, I was working on my new version of the expandable cube sending it up to scarcely believable 1080 cube so I could go back to my LGS again. This would also be the maximum I would ever consider letting a cube draft get to. It would be able to host three 8 player pods. More importantly, if you ever go past 1080, you have now exited realm of power 360 territory.
See, in 360 card cubes that are powered they will always have the power 9 and on top of that basically contain the top 3 cards of any section in the strongest of strong cubes. We're talking things that almost will never leave a cube. The sol rings, the dual lands, the power 9, the great counter spells, card draw, and aggro cards.
When we originally drafted, I wanted to make sure those cards that were in the 360 card cube were distributed as close to fairly as I could get them. So you might see packs where there were 2 red band (360 packs), and 1 540 pack. I would never include the 720 booster cards unless the number of people warranted it. And I would always make sure a person would get to crack one 360 cube booster. There was never a person who got stuck with something like 450/540/720 booster.
If I ever finish the project again, given how disgustingly powerful MTG has come since I was really paying attention to this forum (2008-2012) it would be a much easier thing to manage. The power level of a 360 card cube of 2009 can be watered down a bit with all the cards to choose from of today.
A cube size of 1080 though (45 cards a person = 24 people), could still be created though with the care that everyone would crack a 360 booster. It may piss on the idea of the critical mass archetypes.
But my experience, playing with your personal kitchen table group vs rando LGS people every weekend they really don't go about drafting cube the same at all. It's such a mixed bag of people bringing all their own experiences and skills of playing magic that the archetypes don't get picked up anyway. Still leads to amazing mid-ranged jank decks of brutal power levels.
If I ever finish proxying the cube I'll update here some day.
Anyway, hi wtwlf123 long time thanks for keeping this section of the internet updated with you cube still I use it as my base :).
No offense dude, You've had this attitude since old school wizard forums days but when you have 1 and only one, it's not a when you drop i turn 2. That isn't realistic and you know it lol.
// 22 Creature
3 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Lotleth Troll
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 World Shaper
1 Kessig Cagebreakers
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Evolutionary Leap
4 Tortured Existence
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Diabolic Servitude
// 23 Land
4 Jungle Hollow
3 Golgari Rot Farm
5 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Crypt of Agadeem
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Commune with the Gods
// 22 Creature
3 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 World Shaper
1 Kessig Cagebreakers
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Stitcher's Supplier
2 Nyx Weaver
1 Brawn
4 Evolutionary Leap
4 Tortured Existence
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Diabolic Servitude
// 23 Land
4 Jungle Hollow
3 Golgari Rot Farm
5 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Crypt of Agadeem
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Commune with the Gods
So I've gotten some people at work started on magic. I've been looking for a new deck and I've always loved G/B recursion or/and graveyard fun but I can't afford Survival/Recurring Nightmare and I doubt I would play it anyway if I could. This was just under 20 for the majority of the cards, some I already have. I noticed this deck on this post right here! I fell in love. I have been playtesting around with this for about a month and I really enjoyed what I have right now.
I wanted to explain some of the card choices that were not found in the other deck list. If they are found in other deck lists I apologize for not citing your deck.
I absolutely love the Archfiend control, the world shaper, and cagebreakers.
https://www.facebook.com/KMCSleeves/photos/a.595722823835179.1073741834.117893398284793/1838728906201225/?type=3&source=48
For those who do not want to click on facebook
**After thorough research and consideration, we at KMC Sleeves USA, would like to provide information and clarification regarding the perceived quality issues with our sleeves in recent times; and issue an official statement elucidating our operations, in hopes that full transparency will help answer further questions and concerns.**
Since 1995, we have supplied the United States card game community with the KMC sleeves they have grown to love. However, we are not the Japan-based KMC Corporation and thus do not manufacture the product. KMC Sleeves USA is an independent exclusively authorized importer of the KMC product. We purchase from the factory in Japan and sell the product to United States distributors and retailers. Through the years we have built a great relationship with the KMC manufacturing company in Japan and they have placed their trust in us ensure that their business thrives in the United States. We have strict quality control standards for the sleeves that we import into the US, as it is important that we consistently deliver a great product.
When rumors of an "owner" and/or "formula change" began to surface accompanied by an increasing perception that the sleeve quality had diminished, we were genuinely concerned and confused. We had not received any complaints from our distributors or retail stores regarding the quality of our product, yet customers were claiming to notice a difference. We took this customer feedback to the factory in attempts to discover the source. After a thorough investigation of all products at the production level, we were able to identify that the Silver Hyper Mats had failed our quality control standards. As unfortunate as this was, we were relieved to have identified the problem and looked forward to reestablishing consumer confidence in the KMC product. However, it did not stop there as customers were still reporting that the product was not up to par.
More recently, and with the help of our supportive customers base, we were able to identify that over 90% of those who reported problems with our sleeves had purchased from overseas retailers on Amazon. Our investigation has found that a multitude of overseas sellers claiming to sell KMC product began heavily populating on Amazon circa 2015, such a timeline aligns with the perceived degradation of KMC product quality. It is vital that we clarify to all of our customers that KMC Sleeves USA does not supply these online, overseas retailers. As such, the quality control standards, product origin, and even product authenticity are unknown. Please be advised that we are now working closely with the KMC factory in Japan to discover the nature and authenticity of these overseas online sellers. However, as is the case with any brand, grey market and b-stock product will unfortunately make their way into consumer hands. With the advent of online retailers such as Amazon and eBay, it becomes a difficult task for us to eliminate and/or prevent all illegitimate sellers on the online marketplace. KMC Sleeves USA does not have an official seller's account on Amazon or eBay at this time. If you have purchased product from these sites and are unhappy with the quality, we strongly encourage you to file a complaint and request for refund with that retailer on the grounds of receiving defective product. Since we do not supply these retailers, we do not stand behind their product and can provide no quality guarantees.
That being said, the best way for you, our customers, to know if you are purchasing the authentic KMC product you love is to purchase exclusively from United States retailers. We have strived for decades to bring you a quality product you can trust. Whenever you purchase from a United States retailer you can feel secure in knowing that we will back our product 100%.
We sincerely appreciate the continued support and hope this provides clarification and renewed confidence in KMC Sleeves USA.
mean while - a picture of all 36 boosters shuffled. I'm quite proud of how these turned out. And it'll help my players (especially new players) be able to read and understand each card. My old cube sacrificed text for art, which was fine for veterans and really hurt new players.
My goal is to revive cube drafting events in my LGS area. We used to draft as many as 20-24 people every weekend.
Artifact - Equipment
3, Tap equipped creature: The next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn gains, Storm, Flash, Conspire, Retrace, Wither, Gravestorm, or Split Second. Unequip Wizard's Robe.
Equip 1
Only the greatest of mages can withstand the power.
I think I would like it like the Ravnica lands let it come into play tapped and then you get to draw a card and if you don't put a card on top of your library it doesn't untap next turn
Esper Confluence 2WUB
Instant
Choose three. You may choose the same mode more than once.
- Counter target non-creature spell. You gain 2 life
- Target player sacrifices a creature. You lose 2 life.
- Scry 2, draw a card, discard a card.
Jund Confluence 2BRG
Instant
Choose three. You may choose the same mode more than once.
- Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
- Jund Confluence deals 4 damage to target creature.
- Target player sacrifices a creature. You lose 2 life.
Repeat all the colors using same collect abilities.
Sorcery
Choose up to three target creatures. Shakedown deals damage to target player equal to two times the total converted mana cost of the target creatures unless it's controller sacrifices them.
Gotta love Google/LG's Speech-to-text engine.
we used to run magical hacker because Turn 3 Jace bellerin nuke in your library was something crazy...
In the long run it all depends on your drafters when I'm just playing at the kitchen table I'm generally playing with some skilled individuals when I'm playing at the local game store you have a real good mix of people who hardly ever draft people who don't care about drafting but are good at Magic the Gathering and then you have people who are really good at drafting
when you get a mix of people like that you can never really count on are types coming together correctly and a lot of the times people still hate draft