wouldn't the goal be something like pyroclasm after natural affinity? Or any way of dealing min. 2 dmg to the field with ease? that would at leastreduce the mana requirement to rg(3) to wipe them easily, or rg(4) if you use it at instant speed with kozilek's return.
IMHO the coco swarm I really like. I am going to look at a more comboish version of it. I have tested the version fulgence was running some time ago, and think that just like the bases of green devotion, it can be used as an engine.
Humans and spirits are problems as long as we dont beat them at their own game. There is alot of linear gameplay, that I think we can move towards our own version of linear gameplay too. My biggest choice right now is between focusing on druid combo out of the coco value deck, or going more all in on ruric thar. (maybe even both as a deck swap strat)
It is very very rough right now, and I used disruptiv's deck as a model for the idea. Since the format is getting weird, I think this might be a great chance to abuse green devo as we do excell in this type of format.
A question for Mr. fulgence. How has the devoted to value been running for you lately. I fell like it has some good potential to be very disruptive to these solitaire decks of late (and the toolbox aspect is interesting too).
Hmm going to a pptq this weekend and am going to bring a version of green devo to it. My meta is about 20% jund/ds/some form of 1for1 goodstuff. about 25% control, about another 20% KCI/Coco counters/jank solitaire combo, and then the rest is creature (spirits, humans to a lesser extent)and fan favorites or saffron olive specials.
Would the traditional PW focused build be better (bring more ruric thars and prime times) or CoCo devo abuse? I have most if not all of the cards for both versions too.
For those running the nykthos/land hate hybrid package, what does everyone think about a slight splash of white for Leyline of Sanctity, ravenous trap, and pithing needle for a combo sideboard???
Alright, played in my local fnm and play a tweaked version of my devotionish list.
Observations. Beast within directly won me 3 games. 2 against grixis shadow and another against combo. Being able to nuke lands on t2 or 3 almost gaurenteed is brutal.
Tireless tracker is gold. They must answer him or loose. Definitly keeping him in.
Still on the ropes of stragleroot geist vs bte, but geist was noce to have in several matches.
Nissa 3cmc and garruk was all stars and very hard for almost all opp to deal with.
Field of ruin was very nice, somewhat disruptive. Best uses they have is to turn off manlands so far.
Will post match details amd final list tonight once i get to a cpu
This is what i have come up with after all the awesone feedback and watching some streams too.
I completly agree. Right now i am looking at both curve refinement, and control/finishers. Inho there is something to be said turning on land hate t2,3,4 and the using a finisher to win. I think it is always important to note though, command allows us to toolbox our wincons.
Alright, i am looking to try and see how close this can become to being competitive. I kow it can have a goodly amount of huge t2 and t3 plays. 5 mana available on t2 for land hate is not horribly uncommon. Beast within is the almoat gauremteed t2 land hate, or combo hate in a few annoying matches. Lots of refining is needed though, so i am looking for lots of help.
Tidehollow is the most chosen primarily due to the wording and the amazing interaction with displacer. Kitesail is not what we are looking for though. If we drop the sculler build i would actually max out stranglers and insert more removal and tks/iok.
Ya if you are worried about being able to unvalue paths and gqs then fetch a shock even tapped. Conceled courtyard is good but I dont think 4 are necessary.
Against any combo deck we want both relic and thoughtsieze opening against them, and hopefully follow up with either a tks or a sculler. We should hardly ever loose any control/combo match due to the aggressiveness of our removal. Just review the combo decks and know when to remove or discard what to win those matchups. Burn and storm is all about either removing the key combo burn spell or removing their most efficient counter spell. Tks off an untapped shock to hit a boros charm and see their hand is never a bad play t1 or 2.
Humans and spirits are problems as long as we dont beat them at their own game. There is alot of linear gameplay, that I think we can move towards our own version of linear gameplay too. My biggest choice right now is between focusing on druid combo out of the coco value deck, or going more all in on ruric thar. (maybe even both as a deck swap strat)
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Vizier of Remidies
2 Devoted Druid
1 Walking Ballista
1 Rhonas, the Indomitable
1 Woodland Bellower
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Strangleroot Geist
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Eternal Witness
4 Arbor Elf
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Forest
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Cunning Sparkmage
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tireless Tracker
It is very very rough right now, and I used disruptiv's deck as a model for the idea. Since the format is getting weird, I think this might be a great chance to abuse green devo as we do excell in this type of format.
Would the traditional PW focused build be better (bring more ruric thars and prime times) or CoCo devo abuse? I have most if not all of the cards for both versions too.
Observations. Beast within directly won me 3 games. 2 against grixis shadow and another against combo. Being able to nuke lands on t2 or 3 almost gaurenteed is brutal.
Tireless tracker is gold. They must answer him or loose. Definitly keeping him in.
Still on the ropes of stragleroot geist vs bte, but geist was noce to have in several matches.
Nissa 3cmc and garruk was all stars and very hard for almost all opp to deal with.
Field of ruin was very nice, somewhat disruptive. Best uses they have is to turn off manlands so far.
Will post match details amd final list tonight once i get to a cpu
4 Arbor Elf
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
1 Primeval Titan
2 World Breaker
1 Hornet Queen
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Beast Within
4 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Field of Ruin
10 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Stomping Ground
2 Treetop Village
4 Wooded Foothills
This is what i have come up with after all the awesone feedback and watching some streams too.
I completly agree. Right now i am looking at both curve refinement, and control/finishers. Inho there is something to be said turning on land hate t2,3,4 and the using a finisher to win. I think it is always important to note though, command allows us to toolbox our wincons.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Burning-Tree Emmissary
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Leatherback Baloth
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Primeval Titan
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Terestadon
1x Acidic Slime
1x Thragtusk
2x World Breaker
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instant (4)
4x Beast Within
Sorcery (4)
4x Primal Command
Planeswalker (10)
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Land (24)
2x Treetop Village
18x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Acidic Slime
2x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
1x Bow of Nylea
Alright, i am looking to try and see how close this can become to being competitive. I kow it can have a goodly amount of huge t2 and t3 plays. 5 mana available on t2 for land hate is not horribly uncommon. Beast within is the almoat gauremteed t2 land hate, or combo hate in a few annoying matches. Lots of refining is needed though, so i am looking for lots of help.
3 Wurmcoil Engine SOM
4 World Breaker OGW
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger BFZ
1 Emrakul, the Promised End EMN
Planeswalker
3 Karn Liberated MM2
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon FRF
Instants
2 Kozilek's Return OGW
Sorceries
4 Ancient Stirrings ROE
3 Sylvan Scrying BFZ
Artifacts
4 Chromatic Sphere MR
1 Chromatic Star 10E
4 Expedition Map MM2
3 Relic of Progenitus EMA
3 Oblivion Stone IMA
Lands
3 Forest XLN
4 Karplusan Forest C16
1 Mountain UST
1 Scavenger Grounds HOU
4 Urza's Mine 9E
4 Urza's Power Plant 9E
4 Urza's Tower 9E
Sideboard
SB: 2 Thragtusk E01
SB: 4 Lightning Bolt E01
SB: 4 Nature's Claim IMA
SB: 3 Warping Wail OGW
SB: 2 Pithing Needle MPSKLD
My last 3 stars and karn 4 are very hard to get right now, but i am liking very mich how this is testing despite all of this.
Against any combo deck we want both relic and thoughtsieze opening against them, and hopefully follow up with either a tks or a sculler. We should hardly ever loose any control/combo match due to the aggressiveness of our removal. Just review the combo decks and know when to remove or discard what to win those matchups. Burn and storm is all about either removing the key combo burn spell or removing their most efficient counter spell. Tks off an untapped shock to hit a boros charm and see their hand is never a bad play t1 or 2.