I agree with this list, these are certainly the cards to watch. Not all of these will end up banned, certainly not all on this Monday, but I think the most likely cards to be banned 4 Nov are felidar gaurdian and smuggler's copter, Possibly teferi and oko too, but we'll see.
I've seen some talk of oath of nissa as a card to watch too.
it's a 5-0 daily challenge legacy deck for the hogaak shell. Very few changes to port from modern to legacy. Decks like that in the past, or from legacy to modern, include cawblade (that was standard/extended at about the time modern was created), jund, and eldrazi which all took bans in modern at some point. The Affinity legacy deck was specificly sited for why the artifact lands were banned in the initial modern announcement I believe. Many other extended decks could have been sited.
I still do not support a ban this announcement, but maybe next announcement. We'll see what happens.
They could do anything, truly anything, and any prediction is just a guess because of that. I know hogaak is strong, but I don't think they will ban anything from it THIS announcement. If they ban from hogaak, faithless looting may be the target. Twin should be unbanned and so should SFM, but I've almost given up hope on those.
- Izzet Phoenix is good
- Mono Red Phoenix is good
- Urza’s Prison is good
- Bridgevine is good
- Human is the usual beast
- UW Control has game against everyone
- Eldrazi Tron and Creature Toolbox are on the resurgence
We have, more or less, every strategy covered. Can someone explain to me how playing in this environment isn’t fine?
You'll have to forgive me, as my post history would probably show that I came to this realization late.
Objectively? Nothing is wrong with Modern right now. Even Jund appears to have found some upgrades, and if your objective is to play X type of deck, there is one for nearly everyone.
What I feel is the basis of most arguments right now, even if its not explicitly stated is that SUBJECTIVELY, people do not like the decks that make up much of Modern. People will wrap it up as if there is something wrong with the format, I myself was guilty of this, because we find the decks distasteful, but thats not a flaw, thats perception.
Surgical is our FoW, there is nothing wrong with that.
I think this is a fair statement. What our FOW is changes, it was thoughtsieze for years until the graveyard decks got better. We are looking at an unusually high number of games ending before turn 4 in this meta. With any good new deck it will warp the format for a bit, cut down on diversity, ect, ect. So there are problems, but there are pluses too. All the new MH1 cards have made big changes in many decks adding churn to the meta. Even without hogaak the meta would still be shifting due to these new changes. This churn, including hogaak, is what keeps the game fresh and intersting. Fun is subjective. I enjoy the hogaak deck while others do not. The meta swings so right now I'm having fun with a powerful combo deck, next time maybe it's the UW control deck with a new toy. I believe the format is ok right now but I may feel differently in September.
Hogaak looks like another powerful teir 1 deck to me, but not teir zero. A ban looks unlikely to me right now based on the time it has been legal and this week ends results, UNLESS they decide to use the same logic they used for GGT. (I.E. battle of side board hate cards, competitive deck diversity or overly format warping, something like that.) I predict no changes this announcement but we'll see.
Hogaak is clearly doing well. Pheonix is on top due to thing in the ice returning hogaak's board state. Everything else is FAR behind. Humans is next with meddling mage being the mb card that is fighting hogaak.
This does not look particularly health right now and I doubt anyone will argue with that. But again, it's only been legal 2 weeks. I definitely see weakening diversity and format warping, but I just can't get on board with a ban after 2 weeks. Maybe I'll feel differently if this trend continues.
Separate topic: something that does need a ban in vintage is Karn the great creator. That card is completly out of control in that format IMO.
Haha, Hoogak swings for 17 on turn 2 against burn, and Reid Duke on commentary says that wasn't even the best hand.
This is definitely worthy of an emergency ban.
I don't even know what should be banned, I think it'll honestly take both pieces of something.
Hoogak was an extremely horribly designed mistake, and they printed this for modern so there's no excuse to say it slipped their radar.
I missed that game on channel fireball, I was watching the SCG broscast. Over on SCG hogaak was prevalent, but looked no more prevalent than humans or izzet pheonix. At the begining of the day the commentators were openly talking how how broken it was and which cards would be the most likely ban/bans to nerf it. But by the end of the broadcast they were saying things like, "This meta didn't look to bad."
It is explosive, is a top teir deck, and may still dominate these and other tournaments, but we should really hold judgement on a ban unroll we get a few more results than what we have. People at different times sought bans on goyf, deaths shadow, mox opal, not to mention more recent ones like looting or ancient stirrings. Does everyone remember when cheerios was new and everyone was worked up? Hogaak has only been legal about 2 weeks, we will see what WOTC does at the B&R but we as a community have to be more patient than this short amount of time.
Edit: Here is a legacy example: mental misstep was released May 13th 2011 and wasn't banned until Sept 20th 2011. I think most of us agree mental misstep should certainly be banned in legacy and it was very oppressive, but even for thar egregious card it was legal for FOUR MONTHS. I just don't feel 2-3 weeks is enough time to force deck evolutions and determine long lasting decisions like a ban.
On the other hand I am encouraged by MH1. The strong new hogaak combo is my kind of deck, and several decks got some new peices. People in my area bought lots of it so hopefully they will make more sets like this. We should have gotten counterspell though.
I don't know how attached I would get to the Hogaak deck. If there is any justice in the world, that horrid monstrosity will be killed off in the next B&R. It is stupidly fast, powerful, resilient, and hard to hate out.
Ya I believe they will do something about it too, but who really knows with WOTC. It's still my kind of deck. And if it gets nerfed a bit, it could evolve or I can still play that shell in legacy. I agree you can not stay attached to an obvious best deck in modern.
I feel as resigned as the last few posts. There are unbans that could or should happen but we won't get them this announcement and may never.
On the other hand I am encouraged by MH1. The strong new hogaak combo is my kind of deck, and several decks got some new peices. People in my area bought lots of it so hopefully they will make more sets like this. We should have gotten counterspell though.
Rotting Regisaur is ridiculous. Zero draw back......O I used up all of the cards in my hand. Discard my non existent card.
Yeah, just to compare the level of power creep here. See Cosmic Larva and Phyrexian Soulgorger.
Don't tear this thing down yet, I want to use it. Honestly, it will be good in standard but modern is probably to fast for this. But I am going to try it anyway.
Isn't changing oracle text similar to a patch? I know they can't do everything with an oracle text change, like changing mana costs or something, but they do change things like adding a creature type or adding x can't equal zero and such. There was even a card recently that only said swap 2 creature p/t, but it was only supposed to last until end of turn so they just updated the Oracle text.
Great article, thanks for sharing. Very interesting but this is actually the FIRST event this new bridgevine list was legal in so I feel it is FAR to early to consider or predict a ban. We should continue to watch it closely and make SB changes as we feel necessary at this point.
I agree with this list, these are certainly the cards to watch. Not all of these will end up banned, certainly not all on this Monday, but I think the most likely cards to be banned 4 Nov are felidar gaurdian and smuggler's copter, Possibly teferi and oko too, but we'll see.
I've seen some talk of oath of nissa as a card to watch too.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/88305
it's a 5-0 daily challenge legacy deck for the hogaak shell. Very few changes to port from modern to legacy. Decks like that in the past, or from legacy to modern, include cawblade (that was standard/extended at about the time modern was created), jund, and eldrazi which all took bans in modern at some point. The Affinity legacy deck was specificly sited for why the artifact lands were banned in the initial modern announcement I believe. Many other extended decks could have been sited.
I still do not support a ban this announcement, but maybe next announcement. We'll see what happens.
NO CHANGES in modern.
They could do anything, truly anything, and any prediction is just a guess because of that. I know hogaak is strong, but I don't think they will ban anything from it THIS announcement. If they ban from hogaak, faithless looting may be the target. Twin should be unbanned and so should SFM, but I've almost given up hope on those.
I think this is a fair statement. What our FOW is changes, it was thoughtsieze for years until the graveyard decks got better. We are looking at an unusually high number of games ending before turn 4 in this meta. With any good new deck it will warp the format for a bit, cut down on diversity, ect, ect. So there are problems, but there are pluses too. All the new MH1 cards have made big changes in many decks adding churn to the meta. Even without hogaak the meta would still be shifting due to these new changes. This churn, including hogaak, is what keeps the game fresh and intersting. Fun is subjective. I enjoy the hogaak deck while others do not. The meta swings so right now I'm having fun with a powerful combo deck, next time maybe it's the UW control deck with a new toy. I believe the format is ok right now but I may feel differently in September.
The announcers first said it was red pheonix and I immediately posted that. Oops. Thanks for the correction.
Well, cfb just put out the top 8. Only 2 hogaak decks coming in at #6 and #7. Other decks were humans, E-tron, 2 U/W control, turns and thopter-sword.
We will see what the final results are, but that looks ok to me so far just looking at the top 8 lists at both events.
Edit: fixed results, I listed one deck incorrectly.
Izzet Phoenix – 24
Bridgevine – 19
Humans – 7
Grixis Urza – 5
Mono-Red Phoenix – 4
Eldrazi Tron – 3
Infect – 2
Azorius Control – 2
Devoted Devastation – 2
Bant Infect – 1
Burn – 1
NeoBrand – 1
Mardu Death’s Shadow – 1
Mono-Green Tron – 1
Urza – 1
Jeskai Flash – 1
Hogaak is clearly doing well. Pheonix is on top due to thing in the ice returning hogaak's board state. Everything else is FAR behind. Humans is next with meddling mage being the mb card that is fighting hogaak.
This does not look particularly health right now and I doubt anyone will argue with that. But again, it's only been legal 2 weeks. I definitely see weakening diversity and format warping, but I just can't get on board with a ban after 2 weeks. Maybe I'll feel differently if this trend continues.
Separate topic: something that does need a ban in vintage is Karn the great creator. That card is completly out of control in that format IMO.
I missed that game on channel fireball, I was watching the SCG broscast. Over on SCG hogaak was prevalent, but looked no more prevalent than humans or izzet pheonix. At the begining of the day the commentators were openly talking how how broken it was and which cards would be the most likely ban/bans to nerf it. But by the end of the broadcast they were saying things like, "This meta didn't look to bad."
It is explosive, is a top teir deck, and may still dominate these and other tournaments, but we should really hold judgement on a ban unroll we get a few more results than what we have. People at different times sought bans on goyf, deaths shadow, mox opal, not to mention more recent ones like looting or ancient stirrings. Does everyone remember when cheerios was new and everyone was worked up? Hogaak has only been legal about 2 weeks, we will see what WOTC does at the B&R but we as a community have to be more patient than this short amount of time.
Edit: Here is a legacy example: mental misstep was released May 13th 2011 and wasn't banned until Sept 20th 2011. I think most of us agree mental misstep should certainly be banned in legacy and it was very oppressive, but even for thar egregious card it was legal for FOUR MONTHS. I just don't feel 2-3 weeks is enough time to force deck evolutions and determine long lasting decisions like a ban.
Ya I believe they will do something about it too, but who really knows with WOTC. It's still my kind of deck. And if it gets nerfed a bit, it could evolve or I can still play that shell in legacy. I agree you can not stay attached to an obvious best deck in modern.
On the other hand I am encouraged by MH1. The strong new hogaak combo is my kind of deck, and several decks got some new peices. People in my area bought lots of it so hopefully they will make more sets like this. We should have gotten counterspell though.
Don't tear this thing down yet, I want to use it. Honestly, it will be good in standard but modern is probably to fast for this. But I am going to try it anyway.