Then why not go with Maverick/Liam deck? Because that's where I keep ending up when I try to construct a fair deck.
I actually already have. I've been running Punishing Maverick for the last 3 or so months to moderate success. Went undefeated and won FNM last night, but there have been nights where I'm lucky if I break even.
Although it is a fair deck playing P. Fire, I definitely miss Jund a lot. Especially the discard and Liliana, which is why I am considering going Junk (GWb) with Goyfs, Liliana, etc. once Assassin's Trophy comes out. However, the truth is I'm more leaning towards Junk Maverick instead since the tool box seems pretty good now, but like I said, no P. Fire makes me feel weird.
Unfortunately I have to agree. Initially I thought about just increasing my removal suite to include Assassin's Trophy, but the truth is Punishing Jund doesn't have removal problems. it has combo problems and a lack of threat density. Without a good one drop and threat (our only one drops are Bolt and Thoughtseize) I don't see a reason to play Jund. The fair decks just outclass us and Bloodbraid Elf is not enough.
If you were to play Jund, I think I'd do a 2/2 split off Trophy and Decay since uncounterable is still very relevant and AD hits MOST things you want. You could maybe run Scavenging Oozes to make up for the GY hate and having a threat, but I still think the lack of T1 plays hurts a lot. I've thought about moving over to a Junk (GWB) list with Goyfs, SFM, Confidants, Thalia, and Liliana, but no Punishing Fire makes me sad.
And based on the daily allotment remaining (and the same pattern as last year) there should be plenty available, but online will sell out very quick).
I haven't been to SDCC in a few years, but the years I went and got it, it sold pretty steadily and sold out most days. Is that not the case anymore? Does Hasbro have enough copies for the demand? I imagine that should lower the price on eBay for those who are not in the states.
After just finisching my Elves list on paper last year I'm pretty bumped out about the fact I have to change my whole deck.. Probably even leave black altogether and go mono green?
I wouldn't be that concerned. Elves as a deck is fundamentally still the same deck. You'll replace the DRS with some other mana dork to help you accelerate or things like Birchlore Rangers. You keep black for Abrupt Decay since Chalice on 1 is game over and there are also other things you need to kill like Jitte. I wouldn't be too worried. Elves will live on.
Idk. Jund might get a kick overall. Your discard and removal probably let you continue to beat up on fair decks, and unfair decks lost some speed/stability without probe. I would think you just consider some scavaging oozes and otherwise business as usual.
Jund was already pretty terrible in the meta after the SDT ban. I only played it because it's my petdeck and I have enough experience with it that I can still do alright. There is no obvious replacement card and the only other reason to play the shell is Punishing Fire/Grove. You can just play that same interaction in a better deck like Lands, Maverick, or 4C Loam. There's really no reason to play Jund as the grindy outvalue them deck because there are better choices and frankly they were around before the ban.
This is some real reactionary, Modern-tier banning philosophy right here.
This is what I am most afraid of. Yes, just like the SDT ban there are decks that are casualties that did nothing wrong (Jund, Elves, Food Chain, Aluren, Manaless Dredge, etc.), but it's the fact these seem reactionary. I liked it A LOT more when Wizards left us alone to police ourselves. Yes it took time, but it was organic and natural. We're less than a year from the SDT ban and frankly, the Grixis Delver meta was because they banned SDT.
It might not be a popular opinion, but I actually preferred the Miracles meta since it was the "top" deck that rewarded a skilled pilot and understanding the format. Grixis Delver any grinder could just pick up and do well. Yeah, it was a problem, but in my opinion, all of this nonsense started once Wizards got too involved in Legacy's banlist. I liked it a lot more when they stayed out.
I wouldn't be surprised in 6 or 12 months when social media is crying for something else to be banned because it's not fun or for the sake of "diversity." Then again, my pet deck (Jund) is pretty much dead now so I could be biased.
I don't want to cut the combo PFire + GotBurnwillows..
I got started from the list of QBTURTLE15, which is making excellent results. In comparison though, I want to play Dark Confidant (there are a lot of Grixis in my meta) and PFire instead of Bolt.
What do u think about the list?
List looks fine. Don't ever cut the Punishing Fire combo in my opinion. It's the main reason to play this deck over the other Blue midrange decks.
I think I mentioned earlier that I thought Lightning Bolt was underwhelming so I'm glad I'm not the only one. Your list looks fairly similar to mine (the one in my signature is outdated). The main difference is I only run one K Command and instead run a 2nd Sylvan (I feel good if I have a resolved Sylvan) and I run 4 Thoughtseize and 3 Hymn instead of your 3/4 split. Also I have a Maelstrom Pulse in there somewhere. I'd suggest one too since it's a "catch all" and can deal with resolved Planeswalkers, Gurmag Angler, etc.
At the same time, I stopped playing this due to so much combo in my meta (over half the room), but if your meta is mostly Delver and fair decks, you should be fine.
Also no copies of Sylvan Library (I get you have Grim Flayer), but still seems weird.
I've been told these lists do well on MTGO because there is so much combo (it's cheap) so Punishing Fire is awful online. However, considering the most popular decks in Legacy right now are Death and Taxes (won a GP), Grixis Delver (and a bunch of Delver decks) and Blade decks, Punishing Fire seems just fine.
Just getting into Legacy and looking at Goldfish the most recent Jund List's don't run Punishing Fire/Grove combo and have opted for a more traditional Jund approach. Just wondering if I should be playing Punishing Jund instead? or is it just preference?
Punishing Fire is the very reason to play the deck and why we are so favored against other midrange and control decks. If your meta is filled with them then Jund is a great choice. It removes most creatures in their decks and if it's a slower game Punishing Fire just gives you inevitability to end the game (slowly).
- Bloodbraid Elf: it is a strong card, but with his cascade ..... only *****s =) Maybe I can cut all for another KCommand + Garruk Relentless...but I'm not sure about this choice...What do u think about BElf?
I don't think this should ever be cut. The card advantage and speed it provides is just too good. I know it doesn't always happen, but BBE into Tarmogoyf, Hymn, or even Lili is just too backbreaking.
- Lightning Bolt: I believe this is useless now, because ever side out in every matchups. But I don't know what could be its replacement.
I don't remember if I said it, but I am in the minority and have never run Lightning Bolt in my 75 for this reason. I run 4 Decay, 4 Punishing Fire, and 1 Kolagan's Command and never had removal issues. I'd replace it with more discard (4 Thoughtseize) or a 2nd Sylvan Library. Other things are a main deck Garruk or something.
- Sylvan Library: MVP in every matchups....this is the 1 one perfect slot in every Jund List.
Yes. That is why I run two in my main deck. I am almost never upset to see this in my opener so I'd like to double the chances of seeing it. 4 is too much since more than one Library is useless, but only one leads to seeing it less in a game.
- Choke: I've ever had in my hand when it was sideboard in, but I prefered to have another card instead of. I don't know, maybe replaced with Chains of Mephistopheles or the 4th Duress or the 3th BElf (against control and other decks where I need card advantage).
I took out my chokes maybe two years ago and haven't regretted it. It's a "win more" card and you only side it in games we're already favored. Replace it with something that helps your bad match-ups. Chains is a good choice.
This. Looking to upgrade my Legacy Junk and Maverick decks.
I actually already have. I've been running Punishing Maverick for the last 3 or so months to moderate success. Went undefeated and won FNM last night, but there have been nights where I'm lucky if I break even.
Although it is a fair deck playing P. Fire, I definitely miss Jund a lot. Especially the discard and Liliana, which is why I am considering going Junk (GWb) with Goyfs, Liliana, etc. once Assassin's Trophy comes out. However, the truth is I'm more leaning towards Junk Maverick instead since the tool box seems pretty good now, but like I said, no P. Fire makes me feel weird.
If you were to play Jund, I think I'd do a 2/2 split off Trophy and Decay since uncounterable is still very relevant and AD hits MOST things you want. You could maybe run Scavenging Oozes to make up for the GY hate and having a threat, but I still think the lack of T1 plays hurts a lot. I've thought about moving over to a Junk (GWB) list with Goyfs, SFM, Confidants, Thalia, and Liliana, but no Punishing Fire makes me sad.
I haven't been to SDCC in a few years, but the years I went and got it, it sold pretty steadily and sold out most days. Is that not the case anymore? Does Hasbro have enough copies for the demand? I imagine that should lower the price on eBay for those who are not in the states.
https://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/htsusa/Special-Offers/featured-htsus-specialoffers-featured/-exclusives/-c54940000
That or some combination with Birds of Paradise if you're running 3 colors like Punishing Mav.
I wouldn't be that concerned. Elves as a deck is fundamentally still the same deck. You'll replace the DRS with some other mana dork to help you accelerate or things like Birchlore Rangers. You keep black for Abrupt Decay since Chalice on 1 is game over and there are also other things you need to kill like Jitte. I wouldn't be too worried. Elves will live on.
Jund was already pretty terrible in the meta after the SDT ban. I only played it because it's my petdeck and I have enough experience with it that I can still do alright. There is no obvious replacement card and the only other reason to play the shell is Punishing Fire/Grove. You can just play that same interaction in a better deck like Lands, Maverick, or 4C Loam. There's really no reason to play Jund as the grindy outvalue them deck because there are better choices and frankly they were around before the ban.
This is what I am most afraid of. Yes, just like the SDT ban there are decks that are casualties that did nothing wrong (Jund, Elves, Food Chain, Aluren, Manaless Dredge, etc.), but it's the fact these seem reactionary. I liked it A LOT more when Wizards left us alone to police ourselves. Yes it took time, but it was organic and natural. We're less than a year from the SDT ban and frankly, the Grixis Delver meta was because they banned SDT.
It might not be a popular opinion, but I actually preferred the Miracles meta since it was the "top" deck that rewarded a skilled pilot and understanding the format. Grixis Delver any grinder could just pick up and do well. Yeah, it was a problem, but in my opinion, all of this nonsense started once Wizards got too involved in Legacy's banlist. I liked it a lot more when they stayed out.
I wouldn't be surprised in 6 or 12 months when social media is crying for something else to be banned because it's not fun or for the sake of "diversity." Then again, my pet deck (Jund) is pretty much dead now so I could be biased.
List looks fine. Don't ever cut the Punishing Fire combo in my opinion. It's the main reason to play this deck over the other Blue midrange decks.
I think I mentioned earlier that I thought Lightning Bolt was underwhelming so I'm glad I'm not the only one. Your list looks fairly similar to mine (the one in my signature is outdated). The main difference is I only run one K Command and instead run a 2nd Sylvan (I feel good if I have a resolved Sylvan) and I run 4 Thoughtseize and 3 Hymn instead of your 3/4 split. Also I have a Maelstrom Pulse in there somewhere. I'd suggest one too since it's a "catch all" and can deal with resolved Planeswalkers, Gurmag Angler, etc.
At the same time, I stopped playing this due to so much combo in my meta (over half the room), but if your meta is mostly Delver and fair decks, you should be fine.
Not that I know of. There is a MTGLegacy subreddit on Reddit and if you're not already there, the Source is a forum basically only about Legacy.
I've been told these lists do well on MTGO because there is so much combo (it's cheap) so Punishing Fire is awful online. However, considering the most popular decks in Legacy right now are Death and Taxes (won a GP), Grixis Delver (and a bunch of Delver decks) and Blade decks, Punishing Fire seems just fine.
Punishing Fire is the very reason to play the deck and why we are so favored against other midrange and control decks. If your meta is filled with them then Jund is a great choice. It removes most creatures in their decks and if it's a slower game Punishing Fire just gives you inevitability to end the game (slowly).
I don't think this should ever be cut. The card advantage and speed it provides is just too good. I know it doesn't always happen, but BBE into Tarmogoyf, Hymn, or even Lili is just too backbreaking.
I don't remember if I said it, but I am in the minority and have never run Lightning Bolt in my 75 for this reason. I run 4 Decay, 4 Punishing Fire, and 1 Kolagan's Command and never had removal issues. I'd replace it with more discard (4 Thoughtseize) or a 2nd Sylvan Library. Other things are a main deck Garruk or something.
Yes. That is why I run two in my main deck. I am almost never upset to see this in my opener so I'd like to double the chances of seeing it. 4 is too much since more than one Library is useless, but only one leads to seeing it less in a game.
I took out my chokes maybe two years ago and haven't regretted it. It's a "win more" card and you only side it in games we're already favored. Replace it with something that helps your bad match-ups. Chains is a good choice.