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Unstable Q&A with Mark Rosewater
 
The Dos and Don'ts of Silver-Border Commander
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Ohhhh and for the record I was trying to trap DBS earlier when she said she had read players on MU and knew my meta. But her answer to it was pretty good. The trap was I've never actually played on MU. My game there I was a shadow talking to wisp in a discord page. Her read on me is wrong and assumes play style doesn't change when pace changes, but she's at least not lying about having read extra games of me which does suggest she's town.

    Off to bed, will be around for phase change. Hoping to see a wagon on Wisp when I wake up.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Has anyone wondered why the scummiest, trolling player in thus game has not been lynched yet with less than 24 hours left?

    Because she's scum!

    Read the three most recent pages of Wisp's ISO and tell me he's being any use to town at all. Jenna may be useless but her unvoting me when I said you haven't caught up was a glimmer of townieness. Wisp has nothing of the sort. Plus he's openly scummy. And his wagon is gaining no traction and everytime it starts to it there is a massive chainsaw coming through. Lynch him.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from Killjoy »
    You're scum because you seem more confident than you should be. I feel like you waffle around about as much as I do when I'm town as town because you don't actually know who scum are. That seems not the case this game.

    I feel like I should really stop using meta for arguments. Or at least stop saying I don't use meta. Since that seems to be waht I'm doing here.

    And to answer your question: She might be scum too, IDK. It's probably unusual that scum get CFD'd from them to their buddies. Usually I assume it's probably scum trying to pull heat off their buddy and onto a townie. So, if you're scum... she probably isn't with you? More likely than not I assume.

    This doesn't feel like a very confident read. Also I may be projecting a lot of confidence but my reads have changed pretty drastically over the course of the day. I now have a town read on LnGrrrR for instance.

    What do you make of Last?

    @DV Why aren't you willing to lynch Last? I think he's openly scumming at this point. He's not making reads, pushing wagons, or really doing much of anything beyond saying "But I'm town so what will you do when I flip town?" Which just isn't a townie thing to do when people are trying to lynch you. I've played with him before as town and he's been more active under pressure trying to actually find scum. Which he's just not doing here.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Telling that he might be scum.

    I need to look at this whole wagon train fiasco happening here to see who specifically has been doing all this but its weird to me that a wagon of someone people think is scum gets to L-1 (I think? need to check that too) and then someone tries to find a new target.

    Wait
    I just realized how confusing this was after I made my big post. Do you think the wagon getting as far as it did makes Jenna scum? Because that's kind of the opposite of what your previous post suggested. Then why the part about trusting your (not explained) read of me more?

    Quote from KJ »
    I trust my scum read on Grape more than I do my read on Jenna. The fact that we got to L-1 (or at least L-2) then people tried to CFD is telling I think.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    @Killjoy Where did this confidence I'm scum come from? It definitely doesn't show in your ISO. First mention of me here at 350:
    Quote from Killjoy »


    Grapefruit21- Initial thoughts on Grape are his vote on Llllllllngr to break RVS and subsequent reason for said vote appear to be from a townie perspective. It was very reactive. His catchup is similarly good.

    Town
    Grapefruit
    Terry

    Probs Town
    Tom

    Might Be Town
    Last Whisper

    Postless
    Meg
    Jenna

    Null
    Iso
    BluesEclipse
    Axelrod
    PheonixFire
    Azreal

    Might Be Scum
    Shin
    Osie
    DawningBlueSky

    Probs Scum
    DV
    LnGrrR

    I'd betray the scum for sure... Null I would probably ISO them and decide on the fly.
    I'm sure I missed questions btw. If you could remind me that you asked me something, that would be great. It's 3:14 in the morning, and I'm tired. I'll look for them again in the morning.


    Which evolves to this at 696
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    @Killjoy Do you see much of a difference between Osie and LnGrreR votes bopping on the DBS train?
    I do.

    For reference:
    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    I am fine with voting DBS. I think post 520 is just horrible, threatening those who vote him, trying to claim a power role but also trying to make someone look scummy by asking for it.

    Well sure, I will take that bluff. Claim DBS, so as you said, we can "get on with something more productive".

    Unvote

    Vote DawningBlueSky
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy.


    Bah.

    You're fake news.

    FakingNewsSky. DawningFakeNews.

    You're probably not even a good day 1 lynch... That said, whether or not you are scum, your approach to this game is anti-town.

    I was uncertain before, but hey, at least now I have a scumread.

    Vote Dawningbluesky


    LngrrR's vote uses language that's more aware of it's place on the wagon. He says "I'm fine with voting Dawn" which indirectly alludes to the wagon surrounding his vote. He also indicates specific reasoning for the vote. As a whole, it creates accountability to the vote. (NTS: I'm wondering if this indicates a town!LngrrR)

    Osie acts like he doesn't notice the rest of the thread voting Dawn, doesn't give specific reasons why he's voting, and, for some reason, tacks onto the end a way to wave accountability if Dawn is town (which I'm guessing he is), which is something town does not do. He even nails-in-the-coffin with a final "I was uncertain before but not I have a scumread". It just doesn't feel natural.

    --------------
    While quoting, I reread this.
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    ]ok. I don't see Last as scum so I haven't thought about a potential team. if u insist to get an answer from my non-existent pov, it's likely to feel forced. not my problem.

    possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy. I recall DV/Iso/Azrael having interacted with Last, but nothing significant to memory.

    I think this quote is especially relevant given KJ's big post. Vote DBS with me peeps. Bolding mine.
    Explain your thinking here. You seem to be trying to link Dawn and Osie via my post. You're literally referencing my post which you agreed with that Osie is scum, and using it to say that Dawn is scum, so we should vote Dawn?

    ****. Wondering now. Grape/Osie scumteam?

    -----------

    Which doesn't sound sure but is entertaining the possibility.


    Then there is pretty much nothing concrete about me the rest of the way except you getting upset at me calling you a lurker. Which was fair.

    There is this exchange that suggests more paranoia. But still nothing concrete in terms of a scum read or reasons why.
    Quote from killjoy »
    Quote from grape »
    Reading that whole claim and retraction fiasco gave me a headache. Can we all try to post less when we're unsure of our facts? Please?
    Anyway LnGrrrR needs to eat the noose. Focusing his entire game on the A/B mechanism and not having the facts right is just too much. I've explained my Iso read several times (good interactions with Axelrod and Az despite the pockety feel and I liked his previous interactions with DBS) with his new interactions with DBS he's way up my town reads.
    *eyebrow* Why is LnGrrR getting his facts wrong make him scum?
    Also sidenote: I wonder how much accusing people of pocketing you comes from scum. On the surface it seems like smearing someone for townreading you.


    From that we jump to these three posts with pretty much nothing in between wrt to my alignment.

    Quote from KJ »
    @Axel: You're saying there's only one type of busywork that scum do? You don't think that overloading your posts with useless stuff makes the person posting look like they're doing more than they are? Like... Osie literally asked me if I saw the moon one night as part of his questions. If that was an isolated incident then ok but he's been doing stuff like that on a regular basis and I literally don't understand why he's not getting more flak for it.

    @Everyone: I'm sorry for my general absence... I've been... kind of addicted to the source material of this game and have been playing it pretty nonstop since i signed up for this game.I'm nearing the end of the last game so I've been more focused on that than usual.
    Quote from Osie »
    Yeah, the no lynch vote is setting off all kinds of alarm bells even with her being newish. And both Iso and Az were pushing for her lynch, though Az was waffling a bit.
    I don't feel that we get as much information from Jenna as we do from lynching in Iso/Az, but Terry has a point.

    Vote: Jenna

    "alarm bells" is a scum phrase etc etc.

    This is irritating because I agree with it.

    I don't like Az's CFD attempt. It didn't feel natural. IDK. Like, I feel like without it we could have easily gotten a lynch. Then he moved.
    No the question remains do I trust Iso? Answer: More than I trust Az.

    I think lynching Grape is better than Iso at this stage.

    Vote: Grapefruit

    Quote from KJ »
    Az: Osie.

    @Osie: Grape is scum independent of others right now. If you're referring to Az... As scum, I'd say he's likely to include scum in his scumteam. He's tried to lynch LW/Grape/LnGrrR/Jenna today. If he's scum, one is probably scum. If he's town, then more than one is.
    I don't trust he's being completely honest but if he does nothing but push town mislynches that trust he's trying to build melts quick.

    Quote from KJ »
    I trust my scum read on Grape more than I do my read on Jenna. The fact that we got to L-1 (or at least L-2) then people tried to CFD is telling I think.

    So yeah zero explanation. Just from general paranoia about my interactions with Osie to wanting me lynched.

    @KJ why am I scum?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    I GOT IT!

    Shin, Iso, Kaba, Tom, Terry, and somewhat D_V and Killjoy have all expressed interest in an LW lynch, which means that's actually more likely than a Jenna lynch. And, what do you know? I like lynching him more than I like lynching Jenna, too!

    Vote: Lastwhisper

    CHOO CHOO!!! No brakes! Let's go!
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    We now have fewer than 24 hours left before deadline.

    Jenna is at L-3: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Axelrod, D_V, osieorb18, Iso, dawningbluesky

    Tomsloger, Kabazame, Shinichi, Phoenix, Grapefruit, LnGrrrrrrrrrrrrR, Lastwhisper, Killjoy, and AXErael are currently off-wagon.

    I'm willing to vote Jenna to avoid a no lynch but prefer a Wisp lynch.

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @DBS you are attempting to read me using town meta from a different site with much faster paces. I don't play there much anymore because I can't keep up with the pace. I play here because it's acceptable to have a day off and post at the level I'm posting at (quantity only) you are posting at a massive outlier level in terms of quantity. And I think that's affecting your reads.

    Anyway my point is my town meta is different here than it is in MS. And that's why I play here. I feel burnt out after playing on MS, I don't have time for 48 hour games to feel like I'm playing well. Here with more relaxed deadlines I have time to slowly do what I try to do in less time there.
    lolwut. I'm reading based on playstyle. my playstyle is the same this game, right? you said it felt familiar. don't see why your playstyle will be any different because of the phase duration.
    I'm not counting on your posting speed, I'm counting on your lack of gamesolving. I understand some players are better at lurking and observing, which you probably have been. how can you have no idea on a possible scumteam, for your scumread, after all this time? I can excuse you as observing behind the scenes, but you haven't even pieced the puzzle together with your scumread. I mean...you can just ponder it over a cup of coffee for the fortnight, can't you? what is so hard about that, and how can you not figure out a team for your scumread until now?

    and this looks like AtE... mind you I get triggered when people try AtE with me. lmao

    Read any of my games on here then rather than speculating. My play style is different here than it is to MS. Read Silence of the Lambs, Low Fantasy, or Mistborn.

    As for the part about having ideas on who could be partners with my scum read I have ideas, but I'm not locking anything in pre-flip (sidebar: I'm being scum read for not making pre-flip associations) and will act on them once I have more info. For now I'm content to say that the way Az and KJ went hard for my lynch doesn't look great. Tom's looked more real. Everyone who's been defending Last will get extra scrutiny if he flips scum including you. Even though I strongly don't think you're scum at this stage. Despite having the most nonsensical read on me right now.

    Also PoE generally isn't used the way you're using it. Unless you mean that you've town cleared everyone not in yours. I think you're using it the way most people use "willing to lynch". PoE generally means these are the only people left after I've taken out my hard town clears.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    @DBS you are attempting to read me using town meta from a different site with much faster paces. I don't play there much anymore because I can't keep up with the pace. I play here because it's acceptable to have a day off and post at the level I'm posting at (quantity only) you are posting at a massive outlier level in terms of quantity. And I think that's affecting your reads.

    Anyway my point is my town meta is different here than it is in MS. And that's why I play here. I feel burnt out after playing on MS, I don't have time for 48 hour games to feel like I'm playing well. Here with more relaxed deadlines I have time to slowly do what I try to do in less time there.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Okay so commitment to the game equals having a full game solve on D1. Good to know. Glad that Azreal is the only person committed to the game then.

    Now that we know I'm not getting lynched today can we proceed to lynching Wisp. There's still time!
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    I thought you were in stray dogs as well. Though I did replace out of that one. If that's it terry has a good point.

    Did you also say you've looked me up on MU with their ISO features? Because that would partially explain it.
    I wasn't around during that time (took a long hiatus).

    and yes, I'm still trying to get the hang of that site.. lol

    Clarify on MU and here what scum games have you read of mine?

    And you attacking my commitment to this game is a joke. An absolute joke. That combined with saying that you give benefit of the doubt when meta is your main reason to scum read but have wanted my lynch more than anything based heavily on meta makes me want to reevaluate my town read on you.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    DBS, what game have you played in with Grape as scum?
    Starship Epiphron or alien game, which we were talking about for quite a while. I died N1 so I never had much firsthand experience with him.

    I thought you were in stray dogs as well. Though I did replace out of that one. If that's it terry has a good point.

    Did you also say you've looked me up on MU with their ISO features? Because that would partially explain it.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from D_V »
    Quote from D_V »
    Quote from Jenna Tolaria »
    I don't think so.

    Vote: D_V

    LUL.

    Can we lynch this ***** now?
    uhh... you react so hard to everything, don't you?

    How am I supposed to take that?

    My read vote against Tom is quote with zero context as to anything. With a vote on me.

    Other than totally worthless what else am I supposed to gain from this?

    Please enlighten me what great wisdom other than a farce of a play you see out of this.

    I'm so sick of people saying Jenna is saying anything worthwhile. Pro tip there isn't.
    hate lynch is real here.. but fine. might end up with a no lynch the way things are going.

    Vote: Jenna Tolaria


    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    because this just feels so ez @phraze like there are so many variables at play here... I was hoping Jenna would stop with this split personlity bs before the end of the day, but she never did... She never caught up, when she had ample time, like I just dont get it... Its almost as if she wants to get lynched...
    again with my other username lmao
    if Jenna is scum she's trying to go first so her better teammates can survive.
    if Jenna is town then gg...we have a lot of gamethrowers here~

    yknow me, I can't deal with gamethrowers. ****


    Get your head in the game and stop being so defensive everytime someone questions you. These were less than 30 posts apart. You literally preemptively accused town for lynching who you were voting for.

    And powerwolfing is a thing, wine is a thing, there are any number of reasons Wisp's buddies might choose to defend him. Again my read is mostly just that he's scummy as on his on and we can figure the rest out later. It's D1 we don't need a full solve.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on It Was a Dark and Stormy Night; [Game Over - Mafia Victory!]
    Unvote
    Wait one vote doesn't mean scum can fast hammer. They need 5. Still probably scum but not as sure as I was.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on It Was a Dark and Stormy Night; [Game Over - Mafia Victory!]

    One big thing sticks out:

    You're making a grievous mistake. We don't have space to move. It only appears that way. If the scums can kill twice successfully that is good game. At 4 townies and 2 scums, two kills wins. We cannot get complacent and we cannot ever no lynch.

    Be super extra careful.

    Pure baseless fear mongering. Lynch the scum.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 4 - Blue Bird Lamentation
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    DBS Maybe don't accuse town of game throwing for lynching the person you're voting for. Seems like you have some agency in that. As for who Wisps partners could be Az is the obvious one given his defense of Wisp. Beyond that I don't see anyone tied to him directly. I'd be looking at the rest of the pressure that popped up on me when I started hard pushing Wisp including Jenna.

    @LW repeating that you're town over and over again accomplishes nothing. You think I'm scum and me claiming I'm town over and over again wouldn't change your mind. So why do you expect it to change mine. As for if you're faking everything I know better than most that you don't have a filter and play free as both alignments. Think back to my introduction to your play and you'll know why.
    to that, the thought of Azreal pocketing me did cross my mind, and I wouldnt against lynching him...

    you sound as much like a broken record as I do... just as me saying im town, proves nothing in your eyes, you saying I have imaginary scum buddies isnt doing much. Where are you taking my scum game from? Robot Mafia?

    You've never expressed a town read on him so he can't be pocketing you, but then again you're acting like he's a town read despite having him as a scum read so maybe he has. Or maybe you're just scum who can't keep a story straight. And I've been bringing a variety of points and arguments against you. Hardly repeating myself. Your main defense is "lol but I'm town"


    I don't have a strong grasp on who else is scum, only speculated because DBS asked me to.


    And yeah I was referring to robot mafia there mainly. Though I have read other scum games of yours. Filter is not a tell for you imo.
    Posted in: Mafia
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