@Grapefruit: no, Chris could do plenty of things that would not endear him to me, but I can’t really gauge them until he does /something/.
@cantrip: I’m unconvinced that it’s bad objectively, especially if you’re actually a wolf. (Also would be a really funny partner interaction, certainly in scum!chris’ wheelhouse)
So he did something you found underwhelming and that it was better than nothing and you didn't want to push there yet based on it. I'm really struggling to make heads or tails of your "too much credit line". If you mean that as in benefit of the doubt then I guess it makes sense, but you have made it clear you're not giving him any credit for his Cantrip push.
Also he did do something. He made a push that is as surface level'y and blatantly similar to his Shin bus in GoT (Which you agree with). It had no depth, was from an obvious trap, and showed no insight into anything Cantrip did except for be the third voter. Which is weak on it's own. What I thought was worse was his handling of Rhand. I don't think Rhand acquitted himself poorly it's just Rhand is strong enough to do that as either alignment. And again Chris' big reasoning was that he pushed hard. Which is so weak.
I totally get it. It's super humbling/humiliating to play in unfamiliar places and just have people dump all over your ideas. No judgement here or viewing it as AI. I just thought other people would.
...I knew I shouldn't have posted. That was snark. I have prominent, well-respected players on other sites dismissing all my reads and telling me I'm doing it wrong, so I'm a bit salty.
To be clear I wasn't scum reading you for it but if someone was to push you for an opportunistic push I would have expected them to mention it. My point regarding Chris wasn't that all of those points are ones I believe but they were all points I'd expect someone trying to figure you out to dig into. Chris didn't and just did the most blatantly surface level play possible, which does not sound like town!Chris to me.
Heh that does explain the first level play Chris was showing. That kept me confused.
@tom: any other reason you can think of for Chris doing that other than what he just explained?
unvote
(If your last post contained the answer then make it more clear for me pls )
@Grape: same question for you.
Ummm I think a reason for Chris to do that other than what he said is he's scum and looking for easy pushes to make. Which is why I voted him on that reasoning. I'm really not sure why you're asking me this unless I misunderstood your question.
@Shadow so Chris taking any action is a positive to you?
So I actually find that gotcha moment really underwhelming... Maybe it's because I'd been remarking on how everyone seemed to be waiting to do something but that wasn't it.
The read that Rhand is town because he OMGUS'd hard is just a bizarre one. Maybe my meta on Rhand is off but push strength has never been a town indicator for him in my mind. The man is not afraid to be a bulldog in the early game as scum. I know because I've been on the receiving end of it and incorrectly town read him for it in the past. I don't think it being against Chris automatically makes it a town indicator by any stretch of the imagination. I'm open to being corrected here but I'm pretty sure scum Rhand is very capable of pushing hard early.
And without that brick Chris' conclusions are super weak. The only reasoning he gave was the joining the wagon and bad interactions with LnG. And without know LnG's alignment or even really having a scum read on LnG that does nothing for me. Being the third to hop on a wagon (especially when bait was telegraphed like that) is the most level 0 read I've seen in, well only like a week because champs, but for a long time before that.
Like there were decent reasons to push Cantrip there and Chris just chose not to talk about any of them because the wagon hop was enough for him? If it was Iso I might believe that but Chris has never struck me as one to under-explain and leave us to draw our own conclusions. Just not his MO.
decent Cantrip reasons being the:
What pocketing approach
The woe is me I know nothing self pity
And pointing out that cantrip should know that ego and dismissiveness is just Chris' MO regardless of alignment
I'm fine with dropping the question of what I meant vs what I said but I want to know why you thought my being unsure of my own meta was a scum indicator. I don't get why that was a red flag for you.
Anyway Tom is ignoring my jumbled poke back as expected. Don't think his lack of hustle there means anything. Ditto for largely dropping the roleplay.
If I wanted to do that I wouldn't have pushed back on Shin's claim I had a town read on you. I don't. I just think I'll be able to read you. Also your take requires me to know your internal rules for this level of persona. Which unless I missed a post where you set some public ground rules is something I can't know. Judging based on the thread to when I made my claim you were pretty far in character and have come a bit out of it since that stage.
But you are correct that my stance is to sit back and watch you go to work for a bit rather than sorting you now.
@WillYeah no worries if English isn't your first language, your posts make plenty of sense.
Hmm.
I do think Will's response to my question reads very self-consciously, like he's just saying what he thinks he's supposed to say or something. No idea how much to read into that though especially given his opening was very self-effacing so maybe he's just a very self-aware person in general.
Mrgle.
It's really hard to read into that sort of self awareness for new players. Could be uncomfortableness with needing to lie and hide but just as easily it's the natural awkwardness of joining a new group in an activity you're unfamiliar with. I don't think I'll be able to solve him off tone.
@Will echo'ing that your english is more than passable. Don't stress about it. What would you say is the most important post so far in terms of alignment? I want you to try to press something you believe in.
^
It's clearly a misread and I think he reacts to my wanting to normal vig him the same way as either alignment. But also after several hours of reflection Tom is clearly a better shot. Chris might get shot N1 without anything changing from this moment in time. Tom never does and desperadoing him creates a layup shot out of nowhere.
Anyway I agree with your not today grouping but don't really have reads on Tom or Chris. Just not going to push there without a strong reason.
I will say I very badly want to read into Chris downplaying his wolf game but I think it's ultimately NAI since he thought the question meant Grape wanted him dead either way.
The mod gives you a 1-shot Desperado that you must use immediately. If you hit a wolf you live, if you hit a villager you die. Who do you shoot and why?
I'd shoot Chris. Highest reward play since I don't have a strong scum read. If I were to shoot at someone pinging me it would be LnGrrrR but he's barely above random.
Any rotating over to Tom and Shadow yeah I did. Maybe I'm projecting but I'm just getting a real calm before the storm vibe and think you two aren't breaking the hush as it was.
@Shin in that Tom is telling us who he thinks is town. The language is technically obfuscating but the intent of his posts is clear as can be.
Everyone but Rhand and LnG feel really restrained to me. But not relaxed. It's like the tension waiting for an end of game inbounds play. Everyone is ready to pounce and there is a bit of hand fighting but no one is jumping on anything yet.
I think it makes me feel better about Rhand even though his vote was awful. Not sure on LnG yet. Chris is talking like he's broken the tension but he hasn't done anything yet.
@Rhand you're right I didn't use that specific language. Dunno why I thought I did. Anyway my point was the general point that I was speaking vaguely but did not mean to leave any doubt about my laziness being AI. Even if I did why would my being unsure of my meta be scum indicative?
@Shin I tried to end it because debating whether I believe Tom is easier to read when gimmicking isn't going to help me find scum. As for why I think he's easier it's because in his effort to communicate through his *whatever the gimmick is* he tends to be more open about his thought processes. Whereas normally he just brushes things off till he feels like explaining.
So he did something you found underwhelming and that it was better than nothing and you didn't want to push there yet based on it. I'm really struggling to make heads or tails of your "too much credit line". If you mean that as in benefit of the doubt then I guess it makes sense, but you have made it clear you're not giving him any credit for his Cantrip push.
Also he did do something. He made a push that is as surface level'y and blatantly similar to his Shin bus in GoT (Which you agree with). It had no depth, was from an obvious trap, and showed no insight into anything Cantrip did except for be the third voter. Which is weak on it's own. What I thought was worse was his handling of Rhand. I don't think Rhand acquitted himself poorly it's just Rhand is strong enough to do that as either alignment. And again Chris' big reasoning was that he pushed hard. Which is so weak.
To be clear I wasn't scum reading you for it but if someone was to push you for an opportunistic push I would have expected them to mention it. My point regarding Chris wasn't that all of those points are ones I believe but they were all points I'd expect someone trying to figure you out to dig into. Chris didn't and just did the most blatantly surface level play possible, which does not sound like town!Chris to me.
Ummm I think a reason for Chris to do that other than what he said is he's scum and looking for easy pushes to make. Which is why I voted him on that reasoning. I'm really not sure why you're asking me this unless I misunderstood your question.
@Shadow so Chris taking any action is a positive to you?
The read that Rhand is town because he OMGUS'd hard is just a bizarre one. Maybe my meta on Rhand is off but push strength has never been a town indicator for him in my mind. The man is not afraid to be a bulldog in the early game as scum. I know because I've been on the receiving end of it and incorrectly town read him for it in the past. I don't think it being against Chris automatically makes it a town indicator by any stretch of the imagination. I'm open to being corrected here but I'm pretty sure scum Rhand is very capable of pushing hard early.
And without that brick Chris' conclusions are super weak. The only reasoning he gave was the joining the wagon and bad interactions with LnG. And without know LnG's alignment or even really having a scum read on LnG that does nothing for me. Being the third to hop on a wagon (especially when bait was telegraphed like that) is the most level 0 read I've seen in, well only like a week because champs, but for a long time before that.
Like there were decent reasons to push Cantrip there and Chris just chose not to talk about any of them because the wagon hop was enough for him? If it was Iso I might believe that but Chris has never struck me as one to under-explain and leave us to draw our own conclusions. Just not his MO.
Vote: Chris
Anyway Tom is ignoring my jumbled poke back as expected. Don't think his lack of hustle there means anything. Ditto for largely dropping the roleplay.
But you are correct that my stance is to sit back and watch you go to work for a bit rather than sorting you now.
It's really hard to read into that sort of self awareness for new players. Could be uncomfortableness with needing to lie and hide but just as easily it's the natural awkwardness of joining a new group in an activity you're unfamiliar with. I don't think I'll be able to solve him off tone.
@Will echo'ing that your english is more than passable. Don't stress about it. What would you say is the most important post so far in terms of alignment? I want you to try to press something you believe in.
@Shadow what do you think of Silver? I'm trying to process his play right now and I've lost track of the ball a bit.
^
It's clearly a misread and I think he reacts to my wanting to normal vig him the same way as either alignment. But also after several hours of reflection Tom is clearly a better shot. Chris might get shot N1 without anything changing from this moment in time. Tom never does and desperadoing him creates a layup shot out of nowhere.
Anyway I agree with your not today grouping but don't really have reads on Tom or Chris. Just not going to push there without a strong reason.
I'd shoot Chris. Highest reward play since I don't have a strong scum read. If I were to shoot at someone pinging me it would be LnGrrrR but he's barely above random.
Any rotating over to Tom and Shadow yeah I did. Maybe I'm projecting but I'm just getting a real calm before the storm vibe and think you two aren't breaking the hush as it was.
@Shin in that Tom is telling us who he thinks is town. The language is technically obfuscating but the intent of his posts is clear as can be.
I think it makes me feel better about Rhand even though his vote was awful. Not sure on LnG yet. Chris is talking like he's broken the tension but he hasn't done anything yet.
@Shin I tried to end it because debating whether I believe Tom is easier to read when gimmicking isn't going to help me find scum. As for why I think he's easier it's because in his effort to communicate through his *whatever the gimmick is* he tends to be more open about his thought processes. Whereas normally he just brushes things off till he feels like explaining.