Dragon decks tend to be a little slow to get going due to high creature CMC. So that's problem one. Problem two is we want a mono-colored manabase to cast multi-colored creatures.
For the former, Green kinda does ramp pretty well, and also has ways of producing off-colored mana that help with #2. Of course, Green is a terrible control color. So if we're set on being a control deck, we could leverage artifact ramp, if your meta is inclined to leave them alone. Red has ways to reduce dragon costs (Dragonspeaker Shaman), but if the plan is to Blasphemous Act often, access to those creatures may be sporatic.
[Early death is certainly an option with this type of deck. Creature density of these decks are low & the dragons come out late, and then when they do come out, a 6/6 flier looks "scary" so it immediately eats removal. So a deck can spend the first 4 turns eating everyone's "free attacks" due to inability to play a blocker, then cast a dragon, get it removed, and spend turns 5 or 6 dying. Ways around that could include massive ramp, blowing up opponent lands, lots of early sweepers...]
Sorry I didn't read the OP more closely. Speaking of, I would definitely run all the Purphoroses (Purphorosi?) that you have. It's what the deck does, after all, so you want to see one in every game.
I know it's a different deck, but when you move on to your next deck, is Goblin tribal an option? That's a decent duel deck - and either the Krenko or Purphoros strategies scale well for multiplayer games. Manabase is dirt cheap...
Without looking two closely at the current deck, two thoughts:
1) My bias is to run cards like Blasphemous Act over Lightning Bolt. They usually cost the same and the former clears the entire field.
2) I'm not sure if the little 2 body creatures (i.e., Young Wolf, Nest Invader) are "worth it" in a multiplayer setting. How scary is a 2/2?
It's up to you, but if you're not playing with them (or planning on playing with them) then I would sell.
Yep, these are undecked.
I think I might be asking the wrong question with the thread title.
As background, I am not getting any utility from them now, other than having them "just in case." But if I DID need a playset of U Seas, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't fork over $1800 for them. [Gosh, this hobby is expensive.]
So I really SHOULD be asking - how do I get over the irrational fear of not having something I don't need? I mean, I just acknowledged that I don't value them as high as their current price...
So, I have a pool of ~$40K in RL cards - wondering whether there is any point in holding them over just liquidating and dropping back into the stock market. Here is a list, if the type of RL card makes any difference...
It would feel bad to see cards spike after selling them... but can the RL really keep doing this?
Once upon a time, this forum supplied me with a GW tokens build that had, at it's heart, three things: 1) unfair mana acceleration through Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, 2) a lean GSZ package, and 3) a mix of asymmetrical token producers. The Modern banlist would of course impact your card selection, but the concepts can still apply.
For ramp, the most efficient options are probably lands or Elves. If Wrath is common, then the land approach is probably better. Either way, topping out your curve with Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial is pretty good; the former can find your Gavony Township / Kessig Wolf Run and both can really power up your X or Kicker spells.
Lands (24) X Forest X Plains X Temple Garden X Wooded Foothills X Windswept Heath 2 Gavony Township
Feel free to add Tendershoot Dryad. Deck needs things in the middle of the curve; I'd look hard for 2-3 drops when filling it out (replace the Good Stuff placeholder...).
Eldrazi Monument is "fine" - though I haven't found that I needed it to win (4 person FFA - with larger group, these things are more useful). While Earthcraft (if it wasn't banned) is incredible - i.e., goes infinite with something as seemingly innocuous as Ant Queen & Parallel Lives, I haven't found Cryptolith Rite or Growing Rites necessary.
Will swap Etali, Primal Storm in for Inferno Titan into a Red deck (haste is pretty easy to come by and 4 free cards / attack could possibly be useful)
Silent Gravestone - if it proves unnecessary in a game, at least it can replace itself
I'm probably always going to be better off using Turn 5 for Gary, but it sure would be fun to mark 5 creatures before resolving Tetzimoc, Primal Death in Turn 6 (or hold it up until Cabal Coffers is online and use it like a Hex on Turn 8)
@CoolLink - did you try one of the Quest for Ula's Temple lists before heading in this direction? I'm curious how this compares.
I took a fairly stock Quest list, added a playset of Quicksilver Amulets, and was happy enough (it's still janky, of course - and I'm fairly certain Quest has never come online before eating removal - but Whelming Wave and Scourge of Fleets can make a game of it).
Also, Prid3 & Bl00m have all those helpful threads by color, complete with deck lists, most of which are quite inexpensive. So it's really whatever catches your attention as, "hey, that would be cool to try."
Depending on what your group thinks is "fun," you want to think extra hard before including denial strategies (i.e., discard decks with Waste Not...).
Since the Spitfire triggers each time an opponent is dealt damage, I'd want to try something like Earthquake, where even X=1 could give the Spitfire +9 (in a 4 person FFA). And since Earthquake at X=1 would kill the Firebrand Archers, I wonder if Guttersnipe would be a good alternative there (even if it does mess with your curve... hmm). With a Snipe and Spitfire in play and Earthquake for X=1, the deck has done 3 damage to 2 opponents, and maybe killed the 3rd (Earthquake for 1, Guttersnipe for 2, Chandra's Spitfire for 1+18).
So that would be my first thought - consider swapping out cards that target one opponent to cards that deal noncombat damage to all opponents.
Sulfuric Vortex doesn't help with the Spitfire activations, but it 1) means you won't lose to life gain, and 2) can take 4-6 life off each opponent, putting them closer to lethal range for your spells & creatures.
Edit: you probably already know this, but Blue is abbreviated as U to avoid confusion with Black, so thread title might be UR (Izzet), or, I suppose, Ru (some sites use lower case for the splash). I forget to substitute U instead of B all the time...
Awesome! That sounds like a T7 win (no ramp in the deck, 6 mana for Twilight's Call + 1 for BA)?
If you ever need to get even faster, it's been said before, but Purphoros + BA + insects ends games on Turn 4 (T1 enchantment ramp, T2 insect, T3 ... T4 P + BA). That doesn't make for an interactive game, though... so
I personally removed Purphoros and pivoted to having to swing with the insects to win. Similar deck, but less drain effects and more Beastmaster Ascension, Soulfire Grand Master, and sweepers.
Two thoughts:
Speaking of sweepers, is 6x BAs enough to see one reliably in a game? I'm pretty happy with 8 (plus 8 buyback options), particularly since I want to use more than one in a game (and hitting recursion isn't guaranteed).
FWIW, Swarmyard has some synergy with the insects + sweepers.
I like the narrower focus - I think this will run much more consistently, and faster.
Pyroclasm seems like a strong meta call - that devastates Elves.
Is Eye of Ugin a possibility? That might allow you to run fewer than 8 Colossi and/or add some variety. For example, Steel Hellkite for flyers (or X=1 can kill a lot of Elves), or Myr Battlesphere, or Duplicant for the exile effect.
I wouldn't mind seeing some Chain Reactions in there and maybe one Star of Extinction (haven't had a chance to resolve it yet... but so looking forward to it).
I've typically used Vandalblast and/or Viashino Heretic to deal with artifacts (haven't needed instant speed in my meta as infinite combos are rare); the latter chump blocks - and happens to live through Pyroclasm.
As an EDH player, I'm sure you already know this, but I'd typically take a quick scan at typical decks on EDHREC just to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious in my card choices.
How does this play out when you sleeve it up? Eyeballing the list, with all the ETBT lands, it seems like it would be Turn 4 before your first creature drops - does that work in your group?
What's the plan for flyers (or is evasion unusual in your group)?
The color needs are relatively modest (UU, R), but I've tended to avoid 2 color Post decks unless I'm spending a boatload on the manabase.
I'm not too depressed if I lose my 3 drop creatures - I'd rather play something that does something, than a 0/1 indestructible.
So my preferences -
1) I'd stick to one color - pick either U or R
2) In a Post deck, 4 Expedition Maps is always the right answer (unless you are in G and also have access to Sylvan Scrying and Primeval Titan and such).
3) If you go U, consider adding a singleton Spell Burst and a few Cyclonic Rifts (and 1-2 Capsize is typically enough)
4) If you go R, consider a playset of Blasphemous Act - this deck only has 4 board wipes in the last iteration - so you'd get to see 0-1/game, on average
5) Either case, consider board wipes - Disk is really inexpensive
6) Either case, consider trading some of the more expensive casting cost creatures for an earlier board presence
Endbringer is pretty cool card draw and comes with a body. Or, you know, if you stick to UR, Nin, the Pain Artist kinda does everything you'd need in card draw in a deck with a bunch of indestructible creatures like Stuffy Doll.
I'd probably also replace Arcane Lighthouse with Buried Ruin - particularly if you include more board wipes that don't target, the hexproof thing isn't likely to matter as much.
For the former, Green kinda does ramp pretty well, and also has ways of producing off-colored mana that help with #2. Of course, Green is a terrible control color. So if we're set on being a control deck, we could leverage artifact ramp, if your meta is inclined to leave them alone. Red has ways to reduce dragon costs (Dragonspeaker Shaman), but if the plan is to Blasphemous Act often, access to those creatures may be sporatic.
For the colors, I'd suggest cheating. Think Quicksilver Amulet or Dragon Arch. If you can stick to dragons that don't require more than one of each color (like Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund), use Cascading Cataracts and similar to filter. Jam a couple Chromatic Lanterns as insurance.
[Early death is certainly an option with this type of deck. Creature density of these decks are low & the dragons come out late, and then when they do come out, a 6/6 flier looks "scary" so it immediately eats removal. So a deck can spend the first 4 turns eating everyone's "free attacks" due to inability to play a blocker, then cast a dragon, get it removed, and spend turns 5 or 6 dying. Ways around that could include massive ramp, blowing up opponent lands, lots of early sweepers...]
On the burn strategy, you might consider Flame Rift over Lightning Helix (8 is more than 3). And watch for a reprint of Fiery Confluence.
How has Spark Trooper been for you?
You posted a pretty good P+Gobbo deck back in the day, but I couldn't be bothered to sift through all 9500 posts to find it.
Edit: Oh, that wasn't so hard - here. Google is still a thing.
I know it's a different deck, but when you move on to your next deck, is Goblin tribal an option? That's a decent duel deck - and either the Krenko or Purphoros strategies scale well for multiplayer games. Manabase is dirt cheap...
Without looking two closely at the current deck, two thoughts:
1) My bias is to run cards like Blasphemous Act over Lightning Bolt. They usually cost the same and the former clears the entire field.
2) I'm not sure if the little 2 body creatures (i.e., Young Wolf, Nest Invader) are "worth it" in a multiplayer setting. How scary is a 2/2?
I think I might be asking the wrong question with the thread title.
As background, I am not getting any utility from them now, other than having them "just in case." But if I DID need a playset of U Seas, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't fork over $1800 for them. [Gosh, this hobby is expensive.]
So I really SHOULD be asking - how do I get over the irrational fear of not having something I don't need? I mean, I just acknowledged that I don't value them as high as their current price...
It would feel bad to see cards spike after selling them... but can the RL really keep doing this?
For ramp, the most efficient options are probably lands or Elves. If Wrath is common, then the land approach is probably better. Either way, topping out your curve with Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial is pretty good; the former can find your Gavony Township / Kessig Wolf Run and both can really power up your X or Kicker spells.
For asymmetrical tokens producers, Sylvan Offering is a card I would urge you to run as a 4-of. While it looks symmetrical in the face, once you have a Parallel Lives or Doubling Season or Beastmaster Ascension or Cathars' Crusade in play, there is basically no drawback. I want to see that card in EVERY game. I would also run Benevolent Offering over Lingering Souls for basically the same reason.
I'd also cut Black and tone down the life gain (are you always The Threat?)
With a Modern banlist, I'd start with something like the following -
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Rhys the Redeemed
4 Good Stuff
2 Benevolent Offering
1 Ant Queen
1 Primeval Titan
1 Hornet Queen
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Sylvan Offering
2 Wolfbriar Elemental
1 Intangible Virtue
4 Parallel Lives
1 Anointed Procession
1 Cathars' Crusade
Lands (24)
X Forest
X Plains
X Temple Garden
X Wooded Foothills
X Windswept Heath
2 Gavony Township
Feel free to add Tendershoot Dryad. Deck needs things in the middle of the curve; I'd look hard for 2-3 drops when filling it out (replace the Good Stuff placeholder...).
Eldrazi Monument is "fine" - though I haven't found that I needed it to win (4 person FFA - with larger group, these things are more useful). While Earthcraft (if it wasn't banned) is incredible - i.e., goes infinite with something as seemingly innocuous as Ant Queen & Parallel Lives, I haven't found Cryptolith Rite or Growing Rites necessary.
Edit: Another Saproling option is building around Sprout Swarm / Seedborn Muse / Parallel Lives.
- Riverwise Augur in a Quest for Ula's Temple deck (might be too slow, though)
- Path of Discovery might be winmore, but seems good with Lurking Predators
- Ravenous Chupacabra in Pod / SotF
- Twilight Prophet and Champion of Dusk in vampire tribal
- World Shaper and Journey to Eternity in GB dredge
- Azor, the Lawbringer in a Dragon Arch deck
- Huatli, Radiant Champion with GW tokens - and will consider making a Saproling tokens deck with Tendershoot Dryad
- Seafloor Oracle over Coastal Piracy / Bident in Fish; there are enough lords for Fish without adding Green, but I might someday play Merfolk Mistbinder
- Will swap Etali, Primal Storm in for Inferno Titan into a Red deck (haste is pretty easy to come by and 4 free cards / attack could possibly be useful)
- Silent Gravestone - if it proves unnecessary in a game, at least it can replace itself
- I'm probably always going to be better off using Turn 5 for Gary, but it sure would be fun to mark 5 creatures before resolving Tetzimoc, Primal Death in Turn 6 (or hold it up until Cabal Coffers is online and use it like a Hex on Turn 8)
- The Immortal Sun needs a home somewhere - something tokens + spellslinger, like Wort, the Raidmother
- Mastermind's Acquisition feels like cheating - even if it's not used for anything more than fetching an oddball toolbox card (like Aether Snap)
- Admiral's Order could probably just be Swan Song, but I like that it can protect an attack for U, so going to try this out.
And maybe dino tribal, probably going route of Pestilence/Pyrohemia + Enrage.Don't think Path of Mettle will convince me to finally get around to that Assemble the Legion deck.
I'm tired of thopters & myr, so will probably leave Storm the Vault alone for a while (though I may find myself playing more Aura Shards, Fracturing Gusts and Bane of Progress).
There are also a few that could be jammed in EDH (either because they repeat an effect from a better card in the singleton format, or they require a longer game): Zacama, Primal Calamity, Wayward Swordtooth, Azor's Gateway, Arch of Orazca, Brass's Bounty...
- Torment of Hailfire
- Hour of Revelation
- Anointed Procession
- Disrupt Decorum
- Teferi's Protection
- Hour of Promise
- Kindred Discovery
- Oketra's Monument
- Pull from Tomorrow
Yes, I am aware that's only 9, but I feel there's a clear break between above and below.Honorable Mention
- Ramunap Excavator
- Manglehorn
- Scavenger Grounds
Scarab God, Neheb, and Kess probably belong, but I haven't seen them used...I took a fairly stock Quest list, added a playset of Quicksilver Amulets, and was happy enough (it's still janky, of course - and I'm fairly certain Quest has never come online before eating removal - but Whelming Wave and Scourge of Fleets can make a game of it).
@metalsgs - I've also had fun with Rat (Pack Rat!), Insect (Hornet Nest + Blasphemous Act!) Human, and Merfolk tribal.
Also, Prid3 & Bl00m have all those helpful threads by color, complete with deck lists, most of which are quite inexpensive. So it's really whatever catches your attention as, "hey, that would be cool to try."
Depending on what your group thinks is "fun," you want to think extra hard before including denial strategies (i.e., discard decks with Waste Not...).
Since the Spitfire triggers each time an opponent is dealt damage, I'd want to try something like Earthquake, where even X=1 could give the Spitfire +9 (in a 4 person FFA). And since Earthquake at X=1 would kill the Firebrand Archers, I wonder if Guttersnipe would be a good alternative there (even if it does mess with your curve... hmm). With a Snipe and Spitfire in play and Earthquake for X=1, the deck has done 3 damage to 2 opponents, and maybe killed the 3rd (Earthquake for 1, Guttersnipe for 2, Chandra's Spitfire for 1+18).
Sizzle could do quite a bit of work as well.
So that would be my first thought - consider swapping out cards that target one opponent to cards that deal noncombat damage to all opponents.
Sulfuric Vortex doesn't help with the Spitfire activations, but it 1) means you won't lose to life gain, and 2) can take 4-6 life off each opponent, putting them closer to lethal range for your spells & creatures.
Edit: you probably already know this, but Blue is abbreviated as U to avoid confusion with Black, so thread title might be UR (Izzet), or, I suppose, Ru (some sites use lower case for the splash). I forget to substitute U instead of B all the time...
If you ever need to get even faster, it's been said before, but Purphoros + BA + insects ends games on Turn 4 (T1 enchantment ramp, T2 insect, T3 ... T4 P + BA). That doesn't make for an interactive game, though... so
I personally removed Purphoros and pivoted to having to swing with the insects to win. Similar deck, but less drain effects and more Beastmaster Ascension, Soulfire Grand Master, and sweepers.
Two thoughts:
Speaking of sweepers, is 6x BAs enough to see one reliably in a game? I'm pretty happy with 8 (plus 8 buyback options), particularly since I want to use more than one in a game (and hitting recursion isn't guaranteed).
FWIW, Swarmyard has some synergy with the insects + sweepers.
Pyroclasm seems like a strong meta call - that devastates Elves.
Is Eye of Ugin a possibility? That might allow you to run fewer than 8 Colossi and/or add some variety. For example, Steel Hellkite for flyers (or X=1 can kill a lot of Elves), or Myr Battlesphere, or Duplicant for the exile effect.
I wouldn't mind seeing some Chain Reactions in there and maybe one Star of Extinction (haven't had a chance to resolve it yet... but so looking forward to it).
I've typically used Vandalblast and/or Viashino Heretic to deal with artifacts (haven't needed instant speed in my meta as infinite combos are rare); the latter chump blocks - and happens to live through Pyroclasm.
As an EDH player, I'm sure you already know this, but I'd typically take a quick scan at typical decks on EDHREC just to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious in my card choices.
How does this play out when you sleeve it up? Eyeballing the list, with all the ETBT lands, it seems like it would be Turn 4 before your first creature drops - does that work in your group?
What's the plan for flyers (or is evasion unusual in your group)?
The color needs are relatively modest (UU, R), but I've tended to avoid 2 color Post decks unless I'm spending a boatload on the manabase.
I'm not too depressed if I lose my 3 drop creatures - I'd rather play something that does something, than a 0/1 indestructible.
So my preferences -
1) I'd stick to one color - pick either U or R
2) In a Post deck, 4 Expedition Maps is always the right answer (unless you are in G and also have access to Sylvan Scrying and Primeval Titan and such).
3) If you go U, consider adding a singleton Spell Burst and a few Cyclonic Rifts (and 1-2 Capsize is typically enough)
4) If you go R, consider a playset of Blasphemous Act - this deck only has 4 board wipes in the last iteration - so you'd get to see 0-1/game, on average
5) Either case, consider board wipes - Disk is really inexpensive
6) Either case, consider trading some of the more expensive casting cost creatures for an earlier board presence
Endbringer is pretty cool card draw and comes with a body. Or, you know, if you stick to UR, Nin, the Pain Artist kinda does everything you'd need in card draw in a deck with a bunch of indestructible creatures like Stuffy Doll.
I'd probably also replace Arcane Lighthouse with Buried Ruin - particularly if you include more board wipes that don't target, the hexproof thing isn't likely to matter as much.