@Brian: Yeah, I know it's because of the WYSIWYG editor. It still annoys me though.
@BD: There is no disconnect. I would hope that such a species would treat us as such. They might instead enslave us, which would suck, but if they are capable of doing so..then too bad, I suppose. Survival of the fittest doesn't disappear when you are suddenly not 'the fittest' any more.
Also, there is a large gap between humanity/animals vs. humanity/some theoretical advanced alien species. I mean, to be fair, most alien species probably see us as complete savages. The entertainment that we like, our penchant to warmonger as much as possible, etc. However, I do not believe that we are 'savages' because we eat meat. Obviously I was being facetious in stating that I hope some alien species doesn't eat us. It doesn't make much sense for them to do so. To be honest, I don't even think that cannibals are necessarily 'savages'. Their culture is simply different.
Also, I suspect that, eventually, the meat that we eat will be replaced by genetically engineered material, which should satisfy everyone that is not a religious zealot(which is alot of people, sadly, but oh well). That part probably isn't relevant to the conversation at hand, it just occurred to me.
But until then, I'll just keep eating meat. It tastes good, and I disagree with the moral arguments against it. Does the industry need to be better regulated? Absolutely. So does the dairy industry. And frankly, so does the farming industry. And..probably every industry that exists, at least in the US.
To be honest, the intellectual in me recognizes the benefits of a vegetarian diet. However, I am skeptical as to how much of a difference it makes. I do not believe that living a healthy lifestyle and eating meat/dairy are mutually exclusive. Is it healthier to not eat these things? Maybe, though I don't know how much, and don't know anyone that I think is A)knowledgeable enough and B)objective enough that I would find their answer trustworthy. But anyway, as I was saying, from my limited research, you can eat meat and still be fairly healthy. Will you be the healthiest person on the planet? No. But I see no relevance in that. If I'm healthy but eat meat, and you're just more healthy, what does that get you? Nothing. If anything, I think I'm better off there, because I can maintain a healthy lifestyle while not depriving myself of things that, to me, taste delicious. Note, I am not saying that my particular lifestyle is healthy. It could be better. I am slightly overweight, and could exercise more than I do(I just use my Ab Lounge a few times a week). But that is just personal laziness. My grandfather is in the best shape of probably anyone I have ever met, despite being almost 80 years old. He's eaten meat for his whole life, and he's not any worse off for it.
I realize that there are moral implications for some people, but ultimately, I just disagree with them. I could probably use to study this part of it a little more, because honestly, it's intriguing from an intellectual standpoint..but I'm pretty lazy.
As for mafia, it's funny to read some of the clans choosing their participant(s) specifically based on me. Now I kind of want to play. But I suppose I'll let Kpaca have some fun, and try to vindicate myself next year.
Largely unrelated to all of this, I have a question that some of you(Chris particularly) would probably be knowledgeable about.
What is the actual difference between organic food and GMOs? A buddy of mine is majoring in philosophy(along with political science), and says that this is something they've been debating recently, and that GMOs(apparently the overwhelming majority of vegetables sold at grocery stores qualify as GMO) are not actually worse for you than organic food. This runs counter to what I've heard in other places, and conceptually, the idea of organic food makes sense. Thoughts?
Let's go backwards, for fun. I'd say the definition of a Christian, as apparent in the name, is anyone who believes in the divinity of Christ. So ya, Mormons are Christians, but not all rectangles are squares.
The distinction is important. Words have meaning for a reason; to facilitate communication. If a restaurant advertises a dish as vegetarian, and it has fish in it, then clearly the language has failed in its purpose. Can you really say that this is a fine outcome? To go to an admitted extreme, would you be ok if a doctor told you he'd be removing your appendix but instead took out a kidney or liver? Would that just be "semantics?"
Real life does not work this way. You can't create a definition and expect universal adherence. Subtle nuances exist that complicate these matters. Sure, for argument's sake I'll concede meanings so that we wont become hung up on definitions. I can easily agree with your definition for christian, for argument sake, but in reality that means little. There are enough that disagree with you in this world, in fact the majority might disagree with you on that one, that you saying its so doesn't make it so and forcing it for the sake of argument is a play on semantics and rather irrelevant. There's just too much overlap between definitions and too many people invested in it. Your extreme example doesn't work because there is no overlap. No cultural argument at the definitions and the scope of the definitions.
Instead think of the term "survival of the fittest" as used by Nick or myself. I can tell you right now that despite the phrase being the same we are thinking of two completely different things. Nick, and correct me if I'm wrong here nick, is thinking about the strongest animal fighting for the top. Equating strength with being the fittest. I look at the term fittest as a biological term relating to the fitness of an organism. Fitness being the reproductive success...strength need not be a factor.
Likewise the terms Vegetarian, vegan, pescetarian, and pollotarian are in a similar situation. I would bet that those within the pescetarian and pollotarian circles by and large consider themselves vegetarians. I would also suspect that the majority of vegetarians consider themselves vegetarians even if they supplement their diets with a small portion of meat. Mostly a vegetarian they might say. I'm of the opinion that the creation of these terms is more a way for strict vegans and vegetarians to weed out those "lesser" vegetarians than it is to compose structurally sound deffinitions. Especially since the latter terms are such specific jargon as to not be known within the modern vernacular. A play on semantics. Do you have a term for an almost vegetarian and a wannabe vegetarian as well?
We've discussed definitions at length multiple times before. Like our exhaustive discussions about the term "natural" in the past. I disagree with your need to demand only one definition, your definition, be acceptable in society, society is too broad and too chaotic for that and pretending that you have some sort of authority on the exact meaning of a term...even when it is obviously used differently by vast amounts of people...seems to make the demand of social adherence moot.
As for the guilt, it is there, but it's not a problem. If you spend enough time philosophizing, you come to realize that there is a certain ebb and tow of nature; and that sometimes it's ok for sad things to happen. Death is a part of life, and while it is rarely desirable, one should not feel guilty about it if it was not caused due to willful disregard for the life.
I don't understand how it is not a problem. I understand that willful disregard for life is a negative. But that doesn't change the indirect loss of life. Driving and getting bug smears on the windshield for instance. It is relatively indirect, though you did choose to drive, but I can only think that if I accidentally killed something I viewed as an individual and equal to my worth...another human in this case...I couldn't just dismiss it as not a problem, even with thoughts of **** happens and death is natural. Is there a disconnect here? Does this mean you would view hitting a pedestrian with equal concern as hitting a bird?
Quote from nick »
What is the actual difference between organic food and GMOs? A buddy of mine is majoring in philosophy(along with political science), and says that this is something they've been debating recently, and that GMOs(apparently the overwhelming majority of vegetables sold at grocery stores qualify as GMO) are not actually worse for you than organic food. This runs counter to what I've heard in other places, and conceptually, the idea of organic food makes sense. Thoughts?
Organic foods are typically defined as foods that have not had chemicals like herbicides and pesticides applied to them. They are supposedly healthier and ecologically beneficial and usually exclude GMO's. Genetically Modified Organisms are genetically modified. Beyond the ethical dilemma of playing God, There is fear because these plants can reproduce and have potential to wreck havoc with natural systems. Plus when genetically modified it is essentially a new type of food that humans have not consumed. Do you remember a huge corn tortilla recall a few years back? That was due to GMOed corn specifically engineered for cows accidentally getting into the human food supply. Probably harmless...but freaked people out. There was also corn modified to be its own pesticide...effective but it's pollen started killing indiscriminately. There have been benefits though. I think almost all commercial potatoes are genetically altered with a piece of flounder...that's right, the flat tasty fish. Made the potato resistant to frost and probably saved billions. There's blah examples like the "fake" longer shelf life of tomatoes....odds are every tomato you see at a grocery store is actually green. And there are some potential miracles...especially with wheat. One golden grain is touted as having almost all necessary nutrients and can grow in arid and semi-arid areas like starving places in Africa. It's being held up due to the ethical and moral debate concerning these Frankenfoods.
All this food talk made me hungry and thinking healthy. So I bought Spinach. I was vegetarian...well except for the meat...but more vegetarian than I have been for a while. Wasn't sure how to cook the spinach, but I figured it couldn't be much different than cooking stinging nettle. turned out well.
@Ria. I was thinking about your ant problem in your garden. There's a tactic you can try but it is untested. You already know that the ants are raising aphids like cattle. Kinda cool watching them herd their "cattle" and carry them around to new areas. Sometimes the aphids will even create sugar poor sugar water making the ants sugar limiting and thus more reliant on the aphids. There is a hypothesis that there is a way to break up this bond. The hypothesis proposes that if you provide sugar water to the ants they will drink up, creating a sugar surplus and making them protein limited...and will eat their cattle to fill that void. Put out sugar water for the ants and see what happens. In theory it should work, but I would love to know if it does. I think I know a post doc who would love to know a case study successful or not.
By any chance are you playing with Weaver ants...aka...the Green Tree ant?
***Official Rune Master and Rational Extremest of The Called***
************************From Sound to Sea**********************
And I guess that I'm a lucky one for the truth of what I know. For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go. I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone. If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
I remember reading that there was a problem with GMO corn - it couldn't be digested at all by human beings. Oops!
I don't think these are Weavers, just industrious little black ants, + the sapsuckers aren't aphids, but some kind of scale. Little black spots clustered at the base of leaves which gradually grow bigger. The ants organize them + eat their waxy shell or something equally nasty. *bloody hive mentality*
While I can see the fun in trying to manipulate the colony, the ants just aren't welcome (hello swarm my baby, colony dies by fire). I ant-powder the base, clear the leaves + oil them. Keeps it pest-free until the rain washes it all away. Peach tree was a mess when we moved in, this year it actually made a peach that is still growing! Yay baby peach.
Kpaca, you misunderstood. I didn't say you were ignorant or unwilling to improve yourself. I said that those where the only reasons why I would look down on someone. The implication being that because no one in this thread is like that, that I thus don't look down on anyone in this thread, so you should all stop acting like I do.
Seriously, you all are making way too big a deal out of this. Again, I'm pretty sure you don't think you guys are "equally good" with the guy who rapes the three year old, murders her, and then feels no remorse. If it's not wrong for you to think you are better than that guy because you made the choice not to do those morally reprehensible things, why is it so wrong for me to think I am better than omnis who I view as choosing to do an equally reprehensible thing?
Chris, yes, sometimes words can shift meaning, and sometimes this isn't a bad thing. But this is one case in which it is. Or do you think that I'd be justified in opening a Kosher restaurant, where I advertised all the food as Kosher, but I made sure that all the utensils came into contact with both meat and dairy on a regular basis? Would Jews have no right to complain when they found out, because my definition of Kosher is a little different from theirs? Or would I be wrong in my definition?
As far as natural goes, my main argument about it isn't that it has taken on a meaning that is different from a strict etymological interpretation of the word. My complaint is that it has taken on a meaning that in indefinable, with each person having a different idea of what it means for something to be "natural" and thus making the term meaningless.
"I want to be a complete nerd with extra nerd sauce on top. I'm a nerd. Infinite nerd!"
-rancored_elf
:teach:If you torture data sufficiently, it will confess to almost anything.:teach:
-Fred Menger
Fleeting is this world
Growth and decay its very nature
Things spring to being and again they cease
Happy the marvel of them and the peace.
-Nidana Vagga
Very interesting conversation. I'm sad that I couldn't read every aspect of it, but I will go back and revisit. I've been out of the regular office lately and haven't had time to hit the intarwebbies at home. Sign your own damn self up....I ain't yo biatch!:teach:
I'll chime in a little later about the convo!
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Very interesting conversation. I'm sad that I couldn't read every aspect of it, but I will go back and revisit. I've been out of the regular office lately and haven't had time to hit the intarwebbies at home. Sign your own damn self up....I ain't yo biatch!:teach:
I'll chime in a little later about the convo!
You sayin you don't got time to read 40+ long ass posts on your work days?
I don't think these are Weavers, just industrious little black ants, + the sapsuckers aren't aphids, but some kind of scale. Little black spots clustered at the base of leaves which gradually grow bigger. The ants organize them + eat their waxy shell or something equally nasty. *bloody hive mentality*
While I can see the fun in trying to manipulate the colony, the ants just aren't welcome (hello swarm my baby, colony dies by fire). I ant-powder the base, clear the leaves + oil them. Keeps it pest-free until the rain washes it all away. Peach tree was a mess when we moved in, this year it actually made a peach that is still growing! Yay baby peach.
Hmmm.....well the mechanisms for the ant-scale relationship should be the same and adding sugar may result in the ants eating the scales. But you are right, it would do nothing in completely removing the hive. Ant poison might work, but in my experience the ants always come back. Not sure if it is the poisoned ant being resilient or if a new colony came in to fill the open niche. Good luck with that.
And your right that small black ants are not weaver ants. Probably a camponotus of some type. Best way for you to tell is to eat their butts...if it tastes like lemon drops then you have camponotus. You might need to try a few just in case.
Oooh, Blod. Does your individualistic morality encompass individuals in a social insect hierarchy? Would drones be sub-individuals...they are non-reproducing after all...and all female to boot ;).
Quote from blod »
Chris, yes, sometimes words can shift meaning, and sometimes this isn't a bad thing. But this is one case in which it is. Or do you think that I'd be justified in opening a Kosher restaurant, where I advertised all the food as Kosher, but I made sure that all the utensils came into contact with both meat and dairy on a regular basis? Would Jews have no right to complain when they found out, because my definition of Kosher is a little different from theirs? Or would I be wrong in my definition?
I assume that the meat and dairy products are not kosher in this example? In which case the Jewish guests wouldn't be able to eat there anyway and I'd assume you had some sort of antisemitic agenda...probably spitting in the food too. But if the resturant wasn't 100% kosher but still provided the majority of foods as being kosher then it could get away with the meal. Food also doesn't have to be all that is advertised. The FDA has had rules that food can be about 5% of something to be advertised as that something. An organic Salad might only have organic spinach in it, a Kobe beef burger might only be the fat trimmings of Kobe Beef mixed with cheap whatever else. It is a legal way for restaurants to advertise certain products while saving money for not having to commit wholly to those expensive products. How many times have you frowned at a vegetarian meal that was fried in animal fat but still advertised as vegetarian? And wasn't there some sort of wheat that had to be baked in an animal's skull?
Quote from blod »
As far as natural goes, my main argument about it isn't that it has taken on a meaning that is different from a strict etymological interpretation of the word. My complaint is that it has taken on a meaning that in indefinable, with each person having a different idea of what it means for something to be "natural" and thus making the term meaningless.
I don't want to get into this again. Just know that this meaningless term has driven policy on the local, state wide, and national scale. And is probably why the three main philosophies dedicated to the environment, environmentalists, conservationists, and preservationists, disagree with each other so much despite a common goal. People define it, the definition varies between organizations, but it still drives policy.
Cheers,
Daggertooth
Edit:
Quote from blod »
Seriously, you all are making way too big a deal out of this. Again, I'm pretty sure you don't think you guys are "equally good" with the guy who rapes the three year old, murders her, and then feels no remorse. If it's not wrong for you to think you are better than that guy because you made the choice not to do those morally reprehensible things, why is it so wrong for me to think I am better than omnis who I view as choosing to do an equally reprehensible thing?
I wasn't gonna bother with this, but I figure maybe I should. First, you are equating those who eat meat with those who rape and murder, which is obviously being taken as an insult. Second, yes this is only your morality and your perception...but it also means that you personally view those who eat meat as equal to those who rape and murder...and that's taken as an insult. Plus it puts you in a social hierarchy above others in your eyes that is not easily accepted by other. There are cases where moral and social superiority exist, but to many this "green" morality seems manufactured and artificial. Third, most everybody has experienced the snobbery of someone who "believed" they were superior, and though you are probably not like this, your tone has most likely placed you with them in some of our eyes. People don't like to be equated to rape and murder, it is only natural to be offended, and instinctual to attempt to shut down the construct that places them in that lights, or at the very least view the person with that moral construct with resentment.
Not speaking for everybody, but I think that is a bit of whats going on....
On a side note: I know I would not, and probably could not, associate with murderers and rapists. How can you associate with people you hold in similar light?
***Official Rune Master and Rational Extremest of The Called***
************************From Sound to Sea**********************
And I guess that I'm a lucky one for the truth of what I know. For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go. I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone. If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
I don't want to get into this again. Just know that this meaningless term has driven policy on the local, state wide, and national scale. And is probably why the three main philosophies dedicated to the environment, environmentalists, conservationists, and preservationists, disagree with each other so much despite a common goal. People define it, the definition varies between organizations, but it still drives policy.
It seems like you agree that the fact that there isn't a single, agreed upon definition is a bad thing. If so, should we not attempt to prevent the same thing from happening to other terms?
"I want to be a complete nerd with extra nerd sauce on top. I'm a nerd. Infinite nerd!"
-rancored_elf
:teach:If you torture data sufficiently, it will confess to almost anything.:teach:
-Fred Menger
Fleeting is this world
Growth and decay its very nature
Things spring to being and again they cease
Happy the marvel of them and the peace.
-Nidana Vagga
It seems like you agree that the fact that there isn't a single, agreed upon definition is a bad thing. If so, should we not attempt to prevent the same thing from happening to other terms?
I really do consider a conversation in linguistics as quite droll, a hiccup in the flow of an otherwise entertaining discussion. Very well...if by "we" you are referring to you and I, well for the sake of argument I'll agree with whatever definition you wish to invent. If by "we" you mean society at large, well good luck with that. Unless you can get everyone in a room, hammer out definitions, and apply fines and electric shock through v-chips to those who deviate you'll still get variations in terms.
Even scientists within the same field who sit and hammer out definitions have issues with terminology. Different aspects, scales, and perceptions will drive definitions and unless the term is specific enough as to be rendered needlessly complicated and utterly useless outside the specific field, well it often does little good.
Lets take Vegetarianism for instance. You've got pescetarian and pollotarian already defined. I'm sure there's more, but if not by all means keep going. Invent a term for vegetarians who cheat. Vegan's who don't eat only organic. Vegans who don't only eat hydroponic grown. Pescetarians who eat fish not grown in a farm. Whatever you need so that in the end someone can gloat over their fellow vegetarians, stand tall with pride and superior moral conviction touting how they are a level 5 vegan. A person who doesn't eat anything not organically grown in a sustainable animal friendly farm that hasn't replaced endangered environments and that is farmed by unionized farmers with nice pay, good health care, and a solid dental plan. It is all still irrelevant in the larger context of things and utterly unknown outside the sphere of vegans who morally elevate themselves over others. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but I am saying that when your splitting hairs this finely that they lose their relevance in the larger context of things and I do suspect that in this case the invention of terms is specifically to differentiate those vegans who are not perfect vegans.
My take...you disagree with me? Okay I concede for now. Can we move on please?
Cheers,
Daggertooth
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***Official Rune Master and Rational Extremest of The Called***
************************From Sound to Sea**********************
And I guess that I'm a lucky one for the truth of what I know. For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go. I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone. If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Very nice Daggs! I'm overwhelmed by your ability to dissect the terms and make an arguement over the finest of hairs. Bravo! I, for one, was a person that ate anything from the seas, wild caught if I could afford it, and no dairy or land dwelling animals outside the water, or anything with a face that resided above water for more than 80% of its days.
As we turn our focus away from the veggy talk I would like to take this time comment on how delightful and fullfilling a large volume constitutional is to get out of your system! I swear there is little that is more enjoyable than relaxing by the pool while you let the kids go swimming!
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
I am incapable of just lying around by the pool, I always end up in the pool playing with the kids. Swimming is really refreshing and relaxing, though.
Really, I love being in the water in general. As silly as it is, I'm 30 years old but I still take a bath once in awhile, just lying there in the warm water relaxing/reading/playing DS.
How does anyone not get a book wet when reading and bathing? I mean you would have to have your hands out until they dry and then not move for fear of splashing the book.
I don't take baths. Water up here comes out tea colored. Probably doesn't matter cause it is the same water I drink.
Saw a remarkable car accident last Monday. Car was parked at a T intersection and another car came in full throttle. Seems that other car's throttle got stuck and despite the breaks and e-break being slammed and leaving the longest skid marks I've ever seen she still smashed into the parked car going bout 40 or so. Perfect example of that physics law of motion...the out of control car stopped fast and the other car went from a stop to practically flying...missed any pedestrians and passing cars and smashed without slowing head on into a concrete barricade. Instantly there was screaming and screaming from one female driver. I dialed 911 and ran across to see what I could do...a step behind others though so I was rendered completely useless...hate the feeling of helplessness while someone is hurt. EMT's were on the scene half a second after I was there with the training to actually do something. Ambulance got there and they cut her out of her car. Last I heard she was relatively okay.
***Official Rune Master and Rational Extremest of The Called***
************************From Sound to Sea**********************
And I guess that I'm a lucky one for the truth of what I know. For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go. I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone. If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
So, this weekend Talena is off camping with some of her friends, and the girls are with their grandfather.
I was really bored, so, I decided to go to FNM, just to hang out with old friends etc. A buddy of mine said he had an extra deck which I could play if I wanted, so I went along with it. Then I learned that it was Vampires, and was really disappointed. But I played anyway.
Every game that I played, I was convinced that the deck was terrible. It just didn't do anything other than play guys and turn them sideways.
Somehow I won FNM anyway. Now I have 26 Zendikar packs that I don't have a use for. I'm hard up for money though, so if someone wants them, let me know and we'll work something out.
Still can't believe that I won with Vampires. I really do feel like the deck is bad. I guess that when everything seems bad, being 'not quite as bad' is good enough? I don't know. It was cool to play Magic for the first time in awhile, and obviously winning is always exciting, but the deck was as boring as possible. And like..it's a deck based on Vampires. It just doesn't seem like that should be good.
@Dave: Same, I keep a towel right near the bathtub.
Yeah, then you have to wait until they dry before you can color in them.
I'd be annoyed with you if your Kpaca zinger didn't make me bust out laughing.
Congrats on winning Nick. Seems to me that vampires are the new black weenie staple. Let me get my bad moons and will-o-wisps.
Course vampires seem to be in all over the place. You had that chick flick vampire movie, true blood, vampire diaries, and the vampire's aprintice all out and about or soon to be here. I've heard good things about some, but I haven't seen any of these new shows/movies.
I like vampires and werewolves, but I've never seen agood werewolf movie and vampire movies are typically blah. "Interview with a vampire" is my favorite vampire movie, though Underworld wasn't bad. "American Werewolf in Paris" was probably the better werewolf movie...or was it "American Werewolf in London"...I don't remember and only saw one of them.
Cheers,
Daggertooth
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***Official Rune Master and Rational Extremest of The Called***
************************From Sound to Sea**********************
And I guess that I'm a lucky one for the truth of what I know. For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go. I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone. If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Well, I was able to sell those packs, for $65. Blah. Keeps the lights on and buys some food.
Now I remember why I took up poker as a hobby instead of magic. I paid 5 bucks, played Magic for 8 hours without ever losing a match, took 1st place, and won..65 bucks? Not an exciting return. If I took first place in a poker tournament that took 8 hours to complete, even at only a 5 dollar entry, the payout for first would be like 2 grand.
Of course, part of that is the fact that the store here has a terrible payout structure anyway, but oh well.
Anyway, it was cool to just pick up a magic deck after not playing for a year and take first place at FNM, even if I absolutely hated the deck itself. People were pretty impressed by that.
It was kind of ironic, the entire night, even though I kept winning, I kept insisting that my deck was terrible. Eventually I figured out that the whole format is terrible, the deck I played was just slightly less terrible than everything else. No joke though, every match I played felt like an exercise in mediocrity.
I'm busy building two Eternal Dragon Highlander decks so I can show my magic buddies how fun it is when they come around to draft on Wednesday. I've been slowly collecting cards for Mayael the Anima, today bought some sleeves to throw together a :symu::smyb: deck for it to face off against. Probably build around Sadsack because it's funny.
Asparagus is in season, so I made a quiche, using brown rice for the base instead of pastry. /wrong thread
Hmm. I never liked Asparagus until the last couple of years, but these days I'm a pretty big fan. I find that it's hard to cook correctly though, usually it gets mushy, and then it's kind of gross.
What's the recipe for your quiche? Why use brown rice instead of pastry?
Also, looking back at my post before this one, I realize..that I suck. My life is just terrible right now, for different reasons, and I don't have any way to adequately express it(nor a close enough friend to express it to), so I end up releasing that in a less appropriate fashion.
I mean..I won FNM and found a reason to ***** about it. What a douche.
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Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
All a sudden I am quite excited for this to launch
@BD: There is no disconnect. I would hope that such a species would treat us as such. They might instead enslave us, which would suck, but if they are capable of doing so..then too bad, I suppose. Survival of the fittest doesn't disappear when you are suddenly not 'the fittest' any more.
Also, there is a large gap between humanity/animals vs. humanity/some theoretical advanced alien species. I mean, to be fair, most alien species probably see us as complete savages. The entertainment that we like, our penchant to warmonger as much as possible, etc. However, I do not believe that we are 'savages' because we eat meat. Obviously I was being facetious in stating that I hope some alien species doesn't eat us. It doesn't make much sense for them to do so. To be honest, I don't even think that cannibals are necessarily 'savages'. Their culture is simply different.
Also, I suspect that, eventually, the meat that we eat will be replaced by genetically engineered material, which should satisfy everyone that is not a religious zealot(which is alot of people, sadly, but oh well). That part probably isn't relevant to the conversation at hand, it just occurred to me.
But until then, I'll just keep eating meat. It tastes good, and I disagree with the moral arguments against it. Does the industry need to be better regulated? Absolutely. So does the dairy industry. And frankly, so does the farming industry. And..probably every industry that exists, at least in the US.
To be honest, the intellectual in me recognizes the benefits of a vegetarian diet. However, I am skeptical as to how much of a difference it makes. I do not believe that living a healthy lifestyle and eating meat/dairy are mutually exclusive. Is it healthier to not eat these things? Maybe, though I don't know how much, and don't know anyone that I think is A)knowledgeable enough and B)objective enough that I would find their answer trustworthy. But anyway, as I was saying, from my limited research, you can eat meat and still be fairly healthy. Will you be the healthiest person on the planet? No. But I see no relevance in that. If I'm healthy but eat meat, and you're just more healthy, what does that get you? Nothing. If anything, I think I'm better off there, because I can maintain a healthy lifestyle while not depriving myself of things that, to me, taste delicious. Note, I am not saying that my particular lifestyle is healthy. It could be better. I am slightly overweight, and could exercise more than I do(I just use my Ab Lounge a few times a week). But that is just personal laziness. My grandfather is in the best shape of probably anyone I have ever met, despite being almost 80 years old. He's eaten meat for his whole life, and he's not any worse off for it.
I realize that there are moral implications for some people, but ultimately, I just disagree with them. I could probably use to study this part of it a little more, because honestly, it's intriguing from an intellectual standpoint..but I'm pretty lazy.
As for mafia, it's funny to read some of the clans choosing their participant(s) specifically based on me. Now I kind of want to play. But I suppose I'll let Kpaca have some fun, and try to vindicate myself next year.
Largely unrelated to all of this, I have a question that some of you(Chris particularly) would probably be knowledgeable about.
What is the actual difference between organic food and GMOs? A buddy of mine is majoring in philosophy(along with political science), and says that this is something they've been debating recently, and that GMOs(apparently the overwhelming majority of vegetables sold at grocery stores qualify as GMO) are not actually worse for you than organic food. This runs counter to what I've heard in other places, and conceptually, the idea of organic food makes sense. Thoughts?
Instead think of the term "survival of the fittest" as used by Nick or myself. I can tell you right now that despite the phrase being the same we are thinking of two completely different things. Nick, and correct me if I'm wrong here nick, is thinking about the strongest animal fighting for the top. Equating strength with being the fittest. I look at the term fittest as a biological term relating to the fitness of an organism. Fitness being the reproductive success...strength need not be a factor.
Likewise the terms Vegetarian, vegan, pescetarian, and pollotarian are in a similar situation. I would bet that those within the pescetarian and pollotarian circles by and large consider themselves vegetarians. I would also suspect that the majority of vegetarians consider themselves vegetarians even if they supplement their diets with a small portion of meat. Mostly a vegetarian they might say. I'm of the opinion that the creation of these terms is more a way for strict vegans and vegetarians to weed out those "lesser" vegetarians than it is to compose structurally sound deffinitions. Especially since the latter terms are such specific jargon as to not be known within the modern vernacular. A play on semantics. Do you have a term for an almost vegetarian and a wannabe vegetarian as well?
We've discussed definitions at length multiple times before. Like our exhaustive discussions about the term "natural" in the past. I disagree with your need to demand only one definition, your definition, be acceptable in society, society is too broad and too chaotic for that and pretending that you have some sort of authority on the exact meaning of a term...even when it is obviously used differently by vast amounts of people...seems to make the demand of social adherence moot.
I don't understand how it is not a problem. I understand that willful disregard for life is a negative. But that doesn't change the indirect loss of life. Driving and getting bug smears on the windshield for instance. It is relatively indirect, though you did choose to drive, but I can only think that if I accidentally killed something I viewed as an individual and equal to my worth...another human in this case...I couldn't just dismiss it as not a problem, even with thoughts of **** happens and death is natural. Is there a disconnect here? Does this mean you would view hitting a pedestrian with equal concern as hitting a bird?
Organic foods are typically defined as foods that have not had chemicals like herbicides and pesticides applied to them. They are supposedly healthier and ecologically beneficial and usually exclude GMO's. Genetically Modified Organisms are genetically modified. Beyond the ethical dilemma of playing God, There is fear because these plants can reproduce and have potential to wreck havoc with natural systems. Plus when genetically modified it is essentially a new type of food that humans have not consumed. Do you remember a huge corn tortilla recall a few years back? That was due to GMOed corn specifically engineered for cows accidentally getting into the human food supply. Probably harmless...but freaked people out. There was also corn modified to be its own pesticide...effective but it's pollen started killing indiscriminately. There have been benefits though. I think almost all commercial potatoes are genetically altered with a piece of flounder...that's right, the flat tasty fish. Made the potato resistant to frost and probably saved billions. There's blah examples like the "fake" longer shelf life of tomatoes....odds are every tomato you see at a grocery store is actually green. And there are some potential miracles...especially with wheat. One golden grain is touted as having almost all necessary nutrients and can grow in arid and semi-arid areas like starving places in Africa. It's being held up due to the ethical and moral debate concerning these Frankenfoods.
All this food talk made me hungry and thinking healthy. So I bought Spinach. I was vegetarian...well except for the meat...but more vegetarian than I have been for a while. Wasn't sure how to cook the spinach, but I figured it couldn't be much different than cooking stinging nettle. turned out well.
@Ria. I was thinking about your ant problem in your garden. There's a tactic you can try but it is untested. You already know that the ants are raising aphids like cattle. Kinda cool watching them herd their "cattle" and carry them around to new areas. Sometimes the aphids will even create sugar poor sugar water making the ants sugar limiting and thus more reliant on the aphids. There is a hypothesis that there is a way to break up this bond. The hypothesis proposes that if you provide sugar water to the ants they will drink up, creating a sugar surplus and making them protein limited...and will eat their cattle to fill that void. Put out sugar water for the ants and see what happens. In theory it should work, but I would love to know if it does. I think I know a post doc who would love to know a case study successful or not.
By any chance are you playing with Weaver ants...aka...the Green Tree ant?
Cheers,
Daggertooth
For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go.
I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone.
If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Moderator Helpdesk
I don't think these are Weavers, just industrious little black ants, + the sapsuckers aren't aphids, but some kind of scale. Little black spots clustered at the base of leaves which gradually grow bigger. The ants organize them + eat their waxy shell or something equally nasty. *bloody hive mentality*
While I can see the fun in trying to manipulate the colony, the ants just aren't welcome (hello swarm my baby, colony dies by fire). I ant-powder the base, clear the leaves + oil them. Keeps it pest-free until the rain washes it all away. Peach tree was a mess when we moved in, this year it actually made a peach that is still growing! Yay baby peach.
Seriously, you all are making way too big a deal out of this. Again, I'm pretty sure you don't think you guys are "equally good" with the guy who rapes the three year old, murders her, and then feels no remorse. If it's not wrong for you to think you are better than that guy because you made the choice not to do those morally reprehensible things, why is it so wrong for me to think I am better than omnis who I view as choosing to do an equally reprehensible thing?
Chris, yes, sometimes words can shift meaning, and sometimes this isn't a bad thing. But this is one case in which it is. Or do you think that I'd be justified in opening a Kosher restaurant, where I advertised all the food as Kosher, but I made sure that all the utensils came into contact with both meat and dairy on a regular basis? Would Jews have no right to complain when they found out, because my definition of Kosher is a little different from theirs? Or would I be wrong in my definition?
As far as natural goes, my main argument about it isn't that it has taken on a meaning that is different from a strict etymological interpretation of the word. My complaint is that it has taken on a meaning that in indefinable, with each person having a different idea of what it means for something to be "natural" and thus making the term meaningless.
A Webcomic of math, physics, and life as a geek in college.
Official Insomniac/Physics Addicted Uber Geek of The Called
"I want to be a complete nerd with extra nerd sauce on top. I'm a nerd. Infinite nerd!"
-rancored_elf
:teach:If you torture data sufficiently, it will confess to almost anything.:teach:
-Fred Menger
Fleeting is this world
Growth and decay its very nature
Things spring to being and again they cease
Happy the marvel of them and the peace.
-Nidana Vagga
I'll chime in a little later about the convo!
You sayin you don't got time to read 40+ long ass posts on your work days?
Hmmm.....well the mechanisms for the ant-scale relationship should be the same and adding sugar may result in the ants eating the scales. But you are right, it would do nothing in completely removing the hive. Ant poison might work, but in my experience the ants always come back. Not sure if it is the poisoned ant being resilient or if a new colony came in to fill the open niche. Good luck with that.
And your right that small black ants are not weaver ants. Probably a camponotus of some type. Best way for you to tell is to eat their butts...if it tastes like lemon drops then you have camponotus. You might need to try a few just in case.
Oooh, Blod. Does your individualistic morality encompass individuals in a social insect hierarchy? Would drones be sub-individuals...they are non-reproducing after all...and all female to boot ;).
I assume that the meat and dairy products are not kosher in this example? In which case the Jewish guests wouldn't be able to eat there anyway and I'd assume you had some sort of antisemitic agenda...probably spitting in the food too. But if the resturant wasn't 100% kosher but still provided the majority of foods as being kosher then it could get away with the meal. Food also doesn't have to be all that is advertised. The FDA has had rules that food can be about 5% of something to be advertised as that something. An organic Salad might only have organic spinach in it, a Kobe beef burger might only be the fat trimmings of Kobe Beef mixed with cheap whatever else. It is a legal way for restaurants to advertise certain products while saving money for not having to commit wholly to those expensive products. How many times have you frowned at a vegetarian meal that was fried in animal fat but still advertised as vegetarian? And wasn't there some sort of wheat that had to be baked in an animal's skull?
I don't want to get into this again. Just know that this meaningless term has driven policy on the local, state wide, and national scale. And is probably why the three main philosophies dedicated to the environment, environmentalists, conservationists, and preservationists, disagree with each other so much despite a common goal. People define it, the definition varies between organizations, but it still drives policy.
Cheers,
Daggertooth
Edit:
I wasn't gonna bother with this, but I figure maybe I should. First, you are equating those who eat meat with those who rape and murder, which is obviously being taken as an insult. Second, yes this is only your morality and your perception...but it also means that you personally view those who eat meat as equal to those who rape and murder...and that's taken as an insult. Plus it puts you in a social hierarchy above others in your eyes that is not easily accepted by other. There are cases where moral and social superiority exist, but to many this "green" morality seems manufactured and artificial. Third, most everybody has experienced the snobbery of someone who "believed" they were superior, and though you are probably not like this, your tone has most likely placed you with them in some of our eyes. People don't like to be equated to rape and murder, it is only natural to be offended, and instinctual to attempt to shut down the construct that places them in that lights, or at the very least view the person with that moral construct with resentment.
Not speaking for everybody, but I think that is a bit of whats going on....
On a side note: I know I would not, and probably could not, associate with murderers and rapists. How can you associate with people you hold in similar light?
For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go.
I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone.
If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Moderator Helpdesk
It seems like you agree that the fact that there isn't a single, agreed upon definition is a bad thing. If so, should we not attempt to prevent the same thing from happening to other terms?
A Webcomic of math, physics, and life as a geek in college.
Official Insomniac/Physics Addicted Uber Geek of The Called
"I want to be a complete nerd with extra nerd sauce on top. I'm a nerd. Infinite nerd!"
-rancored_elf
:teach:If you torture data sufficiently, it will confess to almost anything.:teach:
-Fred Menger
Fleeting is this world
Growth and decay its very nature
Things spring to being and again they cease
Happy the marvel of them and the peace.
-Nidana Vagga
I really do consider a conversation in linguistics as quite droll, a hiccup in the flow of an otherwise entertaining discussion. Very well...if by "we" you are referring to you and I, well for the sake of argument I'll agree with whatever definition you wish to invent. If by "we" you mean society at large, well good luck with that. Unless you can get everyone in a room, hammer out definitions, and apply fines and electric shock through v-chips to those who deviate you'll still get variations in terms.
Even scientists within the same field who sit and hammer out definitions have issues with terminology. Different aspects, scales, and perceptions will drive definitions and unless the term is specific enough as to be rendered needlessly complicated and utterly useless outside the specific field, well it often does little good.
Lets take Vegetarianism for instance. You've got pescetarian and pollotarian already defined. I'm sure there's more, but if not by all means keep going. Invent a term for vegetarians who cheat. Vegan's who don't eat only organic. Vegans who don't only eat hydroponic grown. Pescetarians who eat fish not grown in a farm. Whatever you need so that in the end someone can gloat over their fellow vegetarians, stand tall with pride and superior moral conviction touting how they are a level 5 vegan. A person who doesn't eat anything not organically grown in a sustainable animal friendly farm that hasn't replaced endangered environments and that is farmed by unionized farmers with nice pay, good health care, and a solid dental plan. It is all still irrelevant in the larger context of things and utterly unknown outside the sphere of vegans who morally elevate themselves over others. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but I am saying that when your splitting hairs this finely that they lose their relevance in the larger context of things and I do suspect that in this case the invention of terms is specifically to differentiate those vegans who are not perfect vegans.
My take...you disagree with me? Okay I concede for now. Can we move on please?
Cheers,
Daggertooth
For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go.
I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone.
If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Moderator Helpdesk
As we turn our focus away from the veggy talk I would like to take this time comment on how delightful and fullfilling a large volume constitutional is to get out of your system! I swear there is little that is more enjoyable than relaxing by the pool while you let the kids go swimming!
Really, I love being in the water in general. As silly as it is, I'm 30 years old but I still take a bath once in awhile, just lying there in the warm water relaxing/reading/playing DS.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
How does anyone not get a book wet when reading and bathing? I mean you would have to have your hands out until they dry and then not move for fear of splashing the book.
I don't take baths. Water up here comes out tea colored. Probably doesn't matter cause it is the same water I drink.
Saw a remarkable car accident last Monday. Car was parked at a T intersection and another car came in full throttle. Seems that other car's throttle got stuck and despite the breaks and e-break being slammed and leaving the longest skid marks I've ever seen she still smashed into the parked car going bout 40 or so. Perfect example of that physics law of motion...the out of control car stopped fast and the other car went from a stop to practically flying...missed any pedestrians and passing cars and smashed without slowing head on into a concrete barricade. Instantly there was screaming and screaming from one female driver. I dialed 911 and ran across to see what I could do...a step behind others though so I was rendered completely useless...hate the feeling of helplessness while someone is hurt. EMT's were on the scene half a second after I was there with the training to actually do something. Ambulance got there and they cut her out of her car. Last I heard she was relatively okay.
Cheers,
Daggertooth
For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go.
I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone.
If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Moderator Helpdesk
Yeah, then you have to wait until they dry before you can color in them.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
I think I had an anxiety attack yesterday. It's been near 2 years.
FRIDAY!!
.
.
Homebrew is creating Magic.
Are you a pilot or a creator??
I was really bored, so, I decided to go to FNM, just to hang out with old friends etc. A buddy of mine said he had an extra deck which I could play if I wanted, so I went along with it. Then I learned that it was Vampires, and was really disappointed. But I played anyway.
Every game that I played, I was convinced that the deck was terrible. It just didn't do anything other than play guys and turn them sideways.
Somehow I won FNM anyway. Now I have 26 Zendikar packs that I don't have a use for. I'm hard up for money though, so if someone wants them, let me know and we'll work something out.
Still can't believe that I won with Vampires. I really do feel like the deck is bad. I guess that when everything seems bad, being 'not quite as bad' is good enough? I don't know. It was cool to play Magic for the first time in awhile, and obviously winning is always exciting, but the deck was as boring as possible. And like..it's a deck based on Vampires. It just doesn't seem like that should be good.
@Dave: Same, I keep a towel right near the bathtub.
I'd be annoyed with you if your Kpaca zinger didn't make me bust out laughing.
Congrats on winning Nick. Seems to me that vampires are the new black weenie staple. Let me get my bad moons and will-o-wisps.
Course vampires seem to be in all over the place. You had that chick flick vampire movie, true blood, vampire diaries, and the vampire's aprintice all out and about or soon to be here. I've heard good things about some, but I haven't seen any of these new shows/movies.
I like vampires and werewolves, but I've never seen agood werewolf movie and vampire movies are typically blah. "Interview with a vampire" is my favorite vampire movie, though Underworld wasn't bad. "American Werewolf in Paris" was probably the better werewolf movie...or was it "American Werewolf in London"...I don't remember and only saw one of them.
Cheers,
Daggertooth
For my heart had not denied me and I have somewhere to go.
I shall never be a prisoner of steel and glass and stone.
If I leave, I will return again to my Rocky Mountain home.
Moderator Helpdesk
Now I remember why I took up poker as a hobby instead of magic. I paid 5 bucks, played Magic for 8 hours without ever losing a match, took 1st place, and won..65 bucks? Not an exciting return. If I took first place in a poker tournament that took 8 hours to complete, even at only a 5 dollar entry, the payout for first would be like 2 grand.
Of course, part of that is the fact that the store here has a terrible payout structure anyway, but oh well.
Anyway, it was cool to just pick up a magic deck after not playing for a year and take first place at FNM, even if I absolutely hated the deck itself. People were pretty impressed by that.
It was kind of ironic, the entire night, even though I kept winning, I kept insisting that my deck was terrible. Eventually I figured out that the whole format is terrible, the deck I played was just slightly less terrible than everything else. No joke though, every match I played felt like an exercise in mediocrity.
Magic really sucks now...
But I'll probably go to FNM again this week.
I'm busy building two Eternal Dragon Highlander decks so I can show my magic buddies how fun it is when they come around to draft on Wednesday. I've been slowly collecting cards for Mayael the Anima, today bought some sleeves to throw together a :symu::smyb: deck for it to face off against. Probably build around Sadsack because it's funny.
Asparagus is in season, so I made a quiche, using brown rice for the base instead of pastry. /wrong thread
What's the recipe for your quiche? Why use brown rice instead of pastry?
Also, looking back at my post before this one, I realize..that I suck. My life is just terrible right now, for different reasons, and I don't have any way to adequately express it(nor a close enough friend to express it to), so I end up releasing that in a less appropriate fashion.
I mean..I won FNM and found a reason to ***** about it. What a douche.