Some of you may have been in shock since we invaded Canada and Mexico, but fear not, it was for a good cause. Now that we conrol North America, we produce an extra 5 armies a turn.^_^
Brothers Yamazaki (Xyre) – You are a townie. Your sense of honor (You are a samurai, after all.) is offended by the presence of a mafia in your cardshop. Your vote is now your weapon. Wield it wisely to eliminate all evil-doers from the game. Only then will victory wash in waves over you.
Niall Silvain (Treigit) – So, you’re minding your own business. . . hanging out in the cardshop. . . not hurting anyone. Then suddenly, talk of an infiltrating mafia comes out of nowhere and takes over your daily activities. As a townie, it is your job to get rid of the bad people that are trying to take over. Once they’re all gone, you can go back to your peaceful ways.
*** This was the cause of the two-day delay in the middle of the game. Treigit sends me this PM:
Quote from Tregit"s PM »
How many lands/mana sources are in play/controlled by me/availible to me? Has this number changed in anyway this game?
To which I replied:
Quote from my reply »
Why did you ask me this question?
He then asked:
Quote from Treigit »
I was hoping that when I get up to gggg I would change from vanilla to doc. it occured to me that this might happen on d4.
At this point, I stopped the game and sent this:
Quote from me again »
When have I mentioned mana to you or in the game thread?
Please level with me. Have you discussed the game with anyone - except the discussion in the game thread?
Reply:
Quote from Treigit »
I started to wonder when someone claimed their regeneration (which cost 1 mana) made them un-NKable, but my regeneration (at 4 mana) appears to do nothing.
I haven't discussed this game with anyone outside of the thread. (Nor would I with any other game.)
I'll keep this conversation underwraps if the game continues, but there's no way it can't influence my decisions, so I understand if you feel in necessary to replace me when the game commences.
I didn't feel the need to replace Treigit, as I don't think any information I might have unintentionally given would warrant such an action.
That was a fun bit, wasn't it?
Folk of An-Havva (Silicon) – Vote to get rid of scum. Once the scum are all gone, the town has won the game. You are a townie.
Basal Thrull (Pod, kops723) – Because you are townie, your goal is to eliminate the threat of mafia and any other evil presence from your town. Your only weapons to accomplish this goal are your vote, your quick wits, and your ability to find the bad guys before they find you. Good luck!
Morgue Thrull (Fayul) – Townie. You win when all of the scum have been killed.
Shame I had to replace out of this one. Kops piloted the role better than I probly could though.
Did I really? I didn't think I played this game particularly well.. heh. Certainly my days 1-2 play sucked pretty bad but I suppose I did pull out a bit near the end. Overall, though, could have done much better.
Abbey Matron (Kenji) – You’re the nice motherly sort. . . definitely not one to be a member of a secret organization whose sole purpose it is to take over the cardshop. You will win when all of the scum have been done in.
Defender en-Vec (CropCircles) – You are a fine, upstanding member of society. Too bad you have fading and will only last four turns. At the beginning of each day, starting on Day 2, you will lose a fade counter. If, at the beginning of a turn (day), you have zero fade counters, you will be placed in the graveyard.
You may choose to remove a fade counter to prevent damage to a target player. You may do this only at night and only up to the number of fade counters you have. You will have no idea which players are being targeted. To use this ability, simply PM me. If I do not get a PM from you within 48 hours of the declaration of Night, I will assume that you do not wish to use this ability.
You will win with the town. Go eliminate those scum.
Crimson Acolyte (Crippled_Fist) – You are a townie with protection from red. Any time a red spell or ability would target you, you will be notified, but that spell or ability will be countered due to lack of a legal target. This ability could be a benefit or a hindrance. You, and the town, will win when all of the evil-doers have been put into the graveyard.
Benalish Hero (Sutherlands) – Ooooh! You have banding. Too bad that in this game, much like in Magic, banding doesn’t mean diddly-squat. You are a regular townie. You win with the normal town win of eliminating all of the scum.
Aerial Caravan (Hvirfilvindr) – Eliminate the scum, so you can go back to being a crappy card that nobody in their right mind ever plays. You are a basic townie. You will win when all of the scum are eliminated.
Ambassador Laquatus (ZeDorkSlipeur) – You are a plain townie. One would imagine that one of your esteemed station would have some special gift or power, but you’re pretty worthless. When all of the bad elements have been removed, you and the town win.
Academy Researchers (KeeperEUSC, chamber) – You are a vanilla townie. If there is ever an enchantment in the graveyard, you may PM me to put that enchantment into play targeting you. This may only be done at Night, and will take effect at the beginning of the next Day. You may only play this ability once during the game.
** The only aura in the game is Giant Strength. Once chmber PM'd me to say that he wanted a Giant Strength, he became un-nightkillable. He was telling the truth about that bit.
Llanowar Dead (Good&Evil, Machin Shin)– You are a simple townie. In addition to your vote, you have one ability that can help the town. Once per game, you can add one black mana to the mana pool of one of the town’s power roles. You can PM this decision to me at any time. At the time you choose to make the decision, the recipient will be selected randomly from all of the town power roles remaining in the game. Once the scum are eradicated, the town wins.
Beast of Burden (loran16) – As a townie, you have only one weapon – your vote. Use it wisely, and you just may win this game by removing all of the evil from the game.
I mean it just sounded so weak and was never questioned. Overall a fun mafia game to watch thanks for the entertainment guys
It was phrased the best I thought it would be.
Seriously, I thought I was dad ages ago, but then when chamber claimed masons I had to debate with myself if he was a town trying to trick me, or if he was a town-traitor. I thought the mafia was a bit underpowered because of the mason's powerful abilities, so I eventually decided he was a town-traitor, and ran with it. I figure I'd be dead if I didn't take the risk, so might as well.
edit: seeing as how CC died after a bit, maybe we weren't so underpowered, but at the time I forgot to take into account he had fading.
I don't know if Cyan told you, atlseal, but right after we lynched C_F and I was nightkilled, he (Cyan) PMed me and said that he thought you were secretly the last scum.
Just when I thought claiming doctor as the cop was bizarre....
Anyhow, I appreciate the compliment, LJ, but it might have been a good thing I was capped Night 0. I had, after all, investigated Axelrod (Mafia GF) to the tune of an innocent result.
The really bizarre thing? I was NKed night 0 on a game in MTGNews just days after the start of this one where I was the cop, as well.
Also, Abandon hope, you're gambit was terrible too.....
More later when i'm in my room.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Only one question: What townie in their right mind would claim to be your mason if they weren't?
Well see, I know mmod irl, and we both get a kick from seeing stuff like this happen in mafia. If he was town I figured he'd go along with it. If it were anyone else I would have thought them scum for going along.
I don't know if Cyan told you, atlseal, but right after we lynched C_F and I was nightkilled, he (Cyan) PMed me and said that he thought you were secretly the last scum.
Yeah, he PMed me trying to find out after he had died if he was right. I was honestly suspicious of him for the first few days as well. (He was the one sending in all our night choices). So, after periodically checking-up with LJustus about what mana was in our pool and such, I was able to conclude he couldn't be. However, I'm glad to see that the thought crossed both our minds at some point.
PS - I wouldn't tell Cyan what I really was because I thought it would make for a more interesting read for him.
PPS - I'm just sad that I caved the day before I was killed and ended up voting for chamber. After the fact, I thought it made a lot more sense to lynch MMoD in that situation (chamber having claimed un-NKable and all)
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I would have gone with it probably if I was really town. Just saying.
Seriously?
That makes no sense.
Quote from chamber »
Well see, I know mmod irl, and we both get a kick from seeing stuff like this happen in mafia. If he was town I figured he'd go along with it. If it were anyone else I would have thought them scum for going along.
Now that the motivation is clear, I honesly expect to see the both of you lynched early in games and often. I know I'll get a kick out seeing stuff like that happen in mafia.
Sounds like it's time to instate a new metagame ploy: Lynch all Canadians.
Ill second that.
Is abandon hope canadien too?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Some of you may have been in shock since we invaded Canada and Mexico, but fear not, it was for a good cause. Now that we conrol North America, we produce an extra 5 armies a turn.^_^
Where did the extra mana for us Masons come from? Following along, Sarcomancy got cast a turn earlier than I thought possible, and I have no idea where the mana for Orim's Chant came from. I am glad I didn't have to try to claim a R/W critter with a Green mana ability. Maybe it could have been changed to Blood Lust?
I had fun though. Loved watching all the wild theories about the cults and so forth after I got NKed. For a while there, I thought I might have been recruited and NKed the same night. The end was a little painful to watch, but I doubt I would have done much better.
I don't think he was anything. I think he was just gambitting like a fiend.
Regarding this: If you're town, and you're going to gambit, dont' gambit in a way that will affect the lynch/NK of other players who you arent 100% told of their alignment. YOu can gambit when claiming, gambit even faking a daykill.....but dont false claim ina way to get fayul lynched or say that person is a mason with you. Seriously.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I honestly don't know what to say. It is frustrating beyond words to have dedicated so many months to a mafia game, and to have been suspicious of MMoD *all along*, only to have the entire game ruined by another townsperson. The worst part is that you could have called MMoD out for going along with your lie and won the game on the spot, chamber. Instead, you just made up more and more lies just to make your own false claim seem real, and consequently no one believed your REAL claim in the end. The town should have won this game, and you single-handedly caused the town to lose. You did exactly this same thing in L5R Mafia, and in Trek Mafia as well. If you're not capable of playing on a team(and no matter which side you're on in this game, you're part of a team), why do you waste everyone else's time by even playing the game? I'm much more upset than my words here make known, because you have essentially put every other player on this site in a position where we should go out of our way to kill you, regardless of your affiliation, because you'll just end up being a liability otherwise, which is ludicrous. Honestly, at this point, I would rather play with Coiled_Flame *and* Magician of Thought than have to play with another game with you in it.
Other than that, I thought that this game was great. I'm surprised that there were only 5 mafia, as I was honestly expecting 6. Alot of the subtleties in the game were amazing(the various spells that could be cast, and the limitations behind them). I particularly liked that the masonry showed up as green, because it kept everyone on their toes and paying attention. I thought that Axelrod getting NKed was ridiculously lucky for us, as trying to pin him down as the mafia GF would have been quite the considerable task. I also thought that MJM's complete meltdown when he was forced to claim was pretty hilarious.
Let's not discuss this one until it's over, especially since it's currently still undecided.
It appears DYH has sigged me. I'm honored.
Edit: Oh, btw, one person I need to apologize to is Xyre. Given my PM and the fact that you claimed vanilla Brothers Yamazaki, I didn't see how you could be town. But apparently LJ is tricky like that.
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Yeah, LJ how come one brother was vanilla and the other was doc?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I wouldn't go that far...it was a specialty...shouldn't have joined if you didn't expect oddness...I give major kudos to LJ for a great set-up.
-Alpha
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Heh. It seems like fair game to me - just making the setup something other than players would necessarily expect. I made an assumption, and when you assume, you make an ass of you and me.
Of course, the reason I ended up pursuing Xyre so doggedly was the fact that he started questioning me for hints of role information. I was pretty sure he was scum trying to force me to out myself as non-vanilla, because I was virtually the only claimed red character. I was surprised more people didn't figure out I was the doc as soon as I certified that I was non-vanilla.
Obviously we should have lost this game. I had my excuses all lined up - we were horribly underpowered, the town was nuts, one of us got mod-killed, the SK offed me. But I guess you never can tell.
One must give mad props to MMoD for perservering in the face of ridiculous odds, and for gambiting like he did when presented with Chamber's claim. I'm fairly sure that in his place I would never have gone for it like he did, and consequently lost.
Reading along, I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on with Chamber, except I was sure the mafia had already lost, and Chamber was either (1) some kind of recruiting cultist who had converted MMoD out from under us, or (2) just setting MMoD up for a huge fall. Actually, I also was holding out hope Chamber was some kind of "sleeper" mafia we just didn't know about at the beginning of the game. I guess this last one was almost right.
Thank you LJustus for an extremely well run game. I don't know about the "balance" (I might run my own numbers on that one some time ;)) but it was fun.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I have to agree with Axelrod from above. I never, at any point in this game, thought we could win until when we did. At the beginning of the game I felt we were somewhat underpowered for the size of the game. Then we lost one mafia. Then Axel got NKed. Then a modkill. At that point I knew I was going down. And then when the next day started and MMoD wasn't posting at all I thought we were going to be served a lose that was so great it would be embarrassing. At first when chamber claimed mason I believed that maybe the game was fair and he has somehow converted to scum. But seeing as that is not what happened I do not know why MMoD went along with that. I would have counter-claimed in a minute. At any rate, I have no idea how we won this one.
As for the real masons I became more and more convinced that you all had an alternative win condition. The spells seemed so parallel that I figured you had to.
Finally, I again have to agree with Axelrod that you did a great job LJ. The revelation of all the PMs just confirms this to me. Although I am still wondering one thing: What specially did AG do to get mod killed?
I would jsut like to end this post with a: I love you chamber.
I honestly don't know what to say. It is frustrating beyond words to have dedicated so many months to a mafia game, and to have been suspicious of MMoD *all along*, only to have the entire game ruined by another townsperson. The worst part is that you could have called MMoD out for going along with your lie and won the game on the spot, chamber. Instead, you just made up more and more lies just to make your own false claim seem real, and consequently no one believed your REAL claim in the end. The town should have won this game, and you single-handedly caused the town to lose. You did exactly this same thing in L5R Mafia, and in Trek Mafia as well. If you're not capable of playing on a team(and no matter which side you're on in this game, you're part of a team), why do you waste everyone else's time by even playing the game? I'm much more upset than my words here make known, because you have essentially put every other player on this site in a position where we should go out of our way to kill you, regardless of your affiliation, because you'll just end up being a liability otherwise, which is ludicrous. Honestly, at this point, I would rather play with Coiled_Flame *and* Magician of Thought than have to play with another game with you in it.
While keeping in mind that this is just a game, I think Cyan has a point here.
I'm not quite sure if you simply thought you were making a bold play, or whether there was also an element of trying to enjoy yourself and help out a friend at the same time, but if it was the latter, then that's something we want to avoid in the future. Out-of-game relationships should have nothing to do with interactions within a game.
When folks sign up for a game of mafia, there's an expectation that each player will play to win, without bias. If, for instance, a player claims cop on day one just to screw around and get a kick out of the other players' reactions to it, then they're jeopardizing the experience for other players, and the mod.
I'll be the first to admit that being creative can be fun, but we have to be careful that our pursuit of "fun" doesn't detract from other players' experiences with the game.
That said, I'm glad that most people, including myself, are regarding the end result of the game with a good-natured sense of humor, rather than frustration.
Just to clear things up. At the time, chamber thought I was a town, and thus made the move, as a gambit, to try and save a fellow town. We are mature enough NOT to let our RL friendship get into our minds and purposely play with a biased view towards whichever group we belonged to. Now, that being said, because he knows me in RL, he thought I would go along with it IF I WERE TOWN. Now, that gambit, I'll admit, was bad play on his part, but to Cyan and Zds, who are frustrated, it was NOT done because he was trying to "help me out". This is just a game, so don't get worked up over it.
Honestly, do you enjoy winning more, or do you actually enjoy playing the game more? If it's the former, then I think you're playing this game for the wrong reason.
edit: Did you really think he destroyed the game? It was progressed just like other games. Destroying a game would be something like a mafia just blurting out all the other mafia members. He simply made a play that caused the town to lose, and his decision was based on what he knew about me. Is that different from metagaming? I think not.
Just to clear things up. At the time, chamber thought I was a town, and thus made the move, as a gambit, to try and save a fellow town. We are mature enough NOT to let our RL friendship get into our minds and purposely play with a biased view towards whichever group we belonged to. Now, that being said, because he knows me in RL, he thought I would go along with it IF I WERE TOWN. Now, that is, I'll admit, bad play on his part, but to Cyan and Zds, who are frustrated, it was NOT done because of our friendship. This is just a game, so don't get worked up over it.
Honestly, do you enjoy winning more, or do you actually enjoy playing the game more? If it's the former, then I think you're playing this game for the wrong reason.
sigh.
To Azrael's point, there are expectations when you play a game; you play to win, and you play right. You don't go to a pick up game of basketball and switch the basketball with a football to watch everyone else get annoyed.
I don't mind that chamber usually plays differently than everyone else, his voting without reason et al. I don't generally make a big deal out of your chronic lurking problem. However, when the boundary is crossed that sours the taste of the overall experience for others, that's something you should take into deep consideration. Everyone here plays for fun- chamber's idea of 'fun' here clearly didn't match up with the group as a whole. That's the problem.
I disagree with the sentiment here, that Chamber's Gambit was detrimental to the game.
Yes, it caused the loss of the game for the town.
But think about it. If you are pretty darn sure someone is town, I believe this is a valid play if you believe they will be saved. Where the problem came in is MMOD was actually scum. Looking at the day after Chamber was killed, you still had the opportunity to vote him and the reason (Chamber didnt' show up as a mason, while the other group did). I'm pretty sure I can chalk this up to poor play rather than screwing up the game.
It's like if, as a townie, I false-claimed cop on the first day, outed the real cop, then got lynched. Or aggressively vigged 2 or more people the first night, including the cop.
You don't know the motives behind the poor play until you know what's going on in the player's mind. You might say it screwed up the game, but it didn't, it was a poor play decision.
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<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|It is Night 0. Night ends in 180 s (or when all choices are in). Submit actions to fadeblue
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
I honestly paid no attention to this game after i was out. Sorry, guys.
We lost? uhh, damn.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
You play right? There are definitions on right and wrong. Then the Azwolg-situation would be a "wrong" play, and so is A_H's fayul play. Chamber's play was bad (worse then the other two I'd say), but calling these plays wrong is going a bit far.
Honestly, I don't think it affected everyone as much it's made out to be (it did affect a few people quite badly). I would like it if the people who's experience in this game was just ruined by that one play would say so.
Also, I doubt many people's definition of fun is the same as mine. Chamber's definition of fun didn't match up with others, but like what I said above, I want to hear how many people actually had their experience in this game ruined because of Chamber's 'fun'.
Again, I don't believe that this is considered "blowing the game up". I consider blowing the game up to be something that happens in the game, that just ruins it right there for the rest of the players. When chamber made that move, the game progressed quite normally as if we were actually masons.
I want to hear how many people actually had their experience in this game ruined because of Chamber's 'fun'.
I wouldn't say my experience was ruined, but I would have to say that I think chamber singlehanded lost us the game. He shouldn't have done the mason claim in the first place, but he certainly should at least have counterclaimed you when you went to confirm it. Then we would have known one of you was lying, and we could have nailed both of you (starting with you before chamber, obv.)
Just to clear things up. At the time, chamber thought I was a town, and thus made the move, as a gambit, to try and save a fellow town. We are mature enough NOT to let our RL friendship get into our minds and purposely play with a biased view towards whichever group we belonged to. Now, that being said, because he knows me in RL, he thought I would go along with it IF I WERE TOWN. Now, that gambit, I'll admit, was bad play on his part, but to Cyan and Zds, who are frustrated, it was NOT done because he was trying to "help me out". This is just a game, so don't get worked up over it.
Honestly, do you enjoy winning more, or do you actually enjoy playing the game more? If it's the former, then I think you're playing this game for the wrong reason.
edit: Did you really think he destroyed the game? It was progressed just like other games. Destroying a game would be something like a mafia just blurting out all the other mafia members. He simply made a play that caused the town to lose, and his decision was based on what he knew about me. Is that different from metagaming? I think not.
To be clear about a few things:
-I enjoyed this game. I think most people did. This was a good game. It was not destroyed.
-I'm not upset over the final outcome, in fact, I find it fairly amusing. It's probably going to go down in most people's minds as a great game with a hilarious, ironic ending.
-I very much doubt that Chamber went into it thinking "hey, let's toss the game to my buddy MMoD".
If I had to take a stab at what was inside of Chamber's head, which is difficult, since I'm not him, I'd say it was something along the lines of "let's try out something neat with my friend, because I have a hunch that he's really town".
Which is cool, and perfectly fine. I don't think he was intentionally playing uncompetitively.
But to speak to your point of winning vs. having fun, the reason all of us play is to have fun. Problem is, the thing that draws people in, and gives a game suspense, that puts people on the edge of their seat, is the drama of two groups of people duking it out. Winning or losing may not matter, but the fact that there's a fight, a conflict, is what draws people into the game, and makes it exciting. It's the reason we're here. If it was just a bunch of people screwing around aimlessly, with no object, nobody would play.
So to keep the game fun, it's important that the conflict between players is real. Out-of-game relationships should hopefully not be allowed to warp the games.
They might help you get reads on people, they might help make you more confused. Either way, that's fine. But what I'm hoping for is that people will be aware of that, and not let their out-of-game relationships affect their playing style significantly. If it gives you more information, that's great. But setting up gambits without taking a hard look at exactly why you're doing it is something we want to avoid.
I'm not saying don't run gambits with someone you know in real life, I'm just saying, don't let your relationships blind you. That's all.
Honestly, I don't think it affected everyone as much it's made out to be (it did affect a few people quite badly). I would like it if the people who's experience in this game was just ruined by that one play would say so.
It depends on your definition of ruined. Would I do it again? Sure. Is it really frustrating that people do this? Absolutely.
Also, I doubt many people's definition of fun is the same as mine. Chamber's definition of fun didn't match up with others, but like what I said above, I want to hear how many people actually had their experience in this game ruined because of Chamber's 'fun'.
Playing with you guys is like playing with someone with an aimbot in counterstrike. You may find it fun, but I don't anyone else thinks it's enjoyable. What happens to those people in counterstrike? Their team kills them right when the round starts to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
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Level 1 Judge
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
come on, it's chamber we're talking about here
Niall Silvain (Treigit) – So, you’re minding your own business. . . hanging out in the cardshop. . . not hurting anyone. Then suddenly, talk of an infiltrating mafia comes out of nowhere and takes over your daily activities. As a townie, it is your job to get rid of the bad people that are trying to take over. Once they’re all gone, you can go back to your peaceful ways.
*** This was the cause of the two-day delay in the middle of the game. Treigit sends me this PM:
To which I replied:
He then asked:
At this point, I stopped the game and sent this:
Reply:
I didn't feel the need to replace Treigit, as I don't think any information I might have unintentionally given would warrant such an action.
That was a fun bit, wasn't it?
Folk of An-Havva (Silicon) – Vote to get rid of scum. Once the scum are all gone, the town has won the game. You are a townie.
Basal Thrull (Pod, kops723) – Because you are townie, your goal is to eliminate the threat of mafia and any other evil presence from your town. Your only weapons to accomplish this goal are your vote, your quick wits, and your ability to find the bad guys before they find you. Good luck!
Morgue Thrull (Fayul) – Townie.
You win when all of the scum have been killed.
Did I really? I didn't think I played this game particularly well.. heh. Certainly my days 1-2 play sucked pretty bad but I suppose I did pull out a bit near the end. Overall, though, could have done much better.
Defender en-Vec (CropCircles) – You are a fine, upstanding member of society. Too bad you have fading and will only last four turns. At the beginning of each day, starting on Day 2, you will lose a fade counter. If, at the beginning of a turn (day), you have zero fade counters, you will be placed in the graveyard.
You may choose to remove a fade counter to prevent damage to a target player. You may do this only at night and only up to the number of fade counters you have. You will have no idea which players are being targeted. To use this ability, simply PM me. If I do not get a PM from you within 48 hours of the declaration of Night, I will assume that you do not wish to use this ability.
You will win with the town. Go eliminate those scum.
Crimson Acolyte (Crippled_Fist) – You are a townie with protection from red. Any time a red spell or ability would target you, you will be notified, but that spell or ability will be countered due to lack of a legal target. This ability could be a benefit or a hindrance. You, and the town, will win when all of the evil-doers have been put into the graveyard.
Benalish Hero (Sutherlands) – Ooooh! You have banding. Too bad that in this game, much like in Magic, banding doesn’t mean diddly-squat. You are a regular townie. You win with the normal town win of eliminating all of the scum.
Aerial Caravan (Hvirfilvindr) – Eliminate the scum, so you can go back to being a crappy card that nobody in their right mind ever plays. You are a basic townie. You will win when all of the scum are eliminated.
Ambassador Laquatus (ZeDorkSlipeur) – You are a plain townie. One would imagine that one of your esteemed station would have some special gift or power, but you’re pretty worthless. When all of the bad elements have been removed, you and the town win.
Academy Researchers (KeeperEUSC, chamber) – You are a vanilla townie. If there is ever an enchantment in the graveyard, you may PM me to put that enchantment into play targeting you. This may only be done at Night, and will take effect at the beginning of the next Day. You may only play this ability once during the game.
** The only aura in the game is Giant Strength. Once chmber PM'd me to say that he wanted a Giant Strength, he became un-nightkillable. He was telling the truth about that bit.
Llanowar Dead (Good&Evil, Machin Shin)– You are a simple townie. In addition to your vote, you have one ability that can help the town. Once per game, you can add one black mana to the mana pool of one of the town’s power roles. You can PM this decision to me at any time. At the time you choose to make the decision, the recipient will be selected randomly from all of the town power roles remaining in the game. Once the scum are eradicated, the town wins.
Beast of Burden (loran16) – As a townie, you have only one weapon – your vote. Use it wisely, and you just may win this game by removing all of the evil from the game.
Any questions?
It was phrased the best I thought it would be.
Seriously, I thought I was dad ages ago, but then when chamber claimed masons I had to debate with myself if he was a town trying to trick me, or if he was a town-traitor. I thought the mafia was a bit underpowered because of the mason's powerful abilities, so I eventually decided he was a town-traitor, and ran with it. I figure I'd be dead if I didn't take the risk, so might as well.
edit: seeing as how CC died after a bit, maybe we weren't so underpowered, but at the time I forgot to take into account he had fading.
Anyhow, I appreciate the compliment, LJ, but it might have been a good thing I was capped Night 0. I had, after all, investigated Axelrod (Mafia GF) to the tune of an innocent result.
The really bizarre thing? I was NKed night 0 on a game in MTGNews just days after the start of this one where I was the cop, as well.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
O_DSGJSVNDSGN:SLN:NSV:KBNKDj
Also, Abandon hope, you're gambit was terrible too.....
More later when i'm in my room.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Only one question: What townie in their right mind would claim to be your mason if they weren't?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Well see, I know mmod irl, and we both get a kick from seeing stuff like this happen in mafia. If he was town I figured he'd go along with it. If it were anyone else I would have thought them scum for going along.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Yeah, he PMed me trying to find out after he had died if he was right. I was honestly suspicious of him for the first few days as well. (He was the one sending in all our night choices). So, after periodically checking-up with LJustus about what mana was in our pool and such, I was able to conclude he couldn't be. However, I'm glad to see that the thought crossed both our minds at some point.
PS - I wouldn't tell Cyan what I really was because I thought it would make for a more interesting read for him.
PPS - I'm just sad that I caved the day before I was killed and ended up voting for chamber. After the fact, I thought it made a lot more sense to lynch MMoD in that situation (chamber having claimed un-NKable and all)
Seriously?
That makes no sense.
Now that the motivation is clear, I honesly expect to see the both of you lynched early in games and often. I know I'll get a kick out seeing stuff like that happen in mafia.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
But that would hit swinkee... yeah I got nothing.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Ill second that.
Is abandon hope canadien too?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Totally not fair.
I've never been lynched.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
Vote Hooga. wait scratch that. Unvote. Daykill Hooga.
So why were the Masons green?
I really thought Cyan was scum, I just couldn't think of a reason to lynch a mason off jsut a hunch.
I had fun though. Loved watching all the wild theories about the cults and so forth after I got NKed. For a while there, I thought I might have been recruited and NKed the same night. The end was a little painful to watch, but I doubt I would have done much better.
Vanilla. Ljustus already said, he just only labled him as silicon instead of silicon/a_h
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Regarding this: If you're town, and you're going to gambit, dont' gambit in a way that will affect the lynch/NK of other players who you arent 100% told of their alignment. YOu can gambit when claiming, gambit even faking a daykill.....but dont false claim ina way to get fayul lynched or say that person is a mason with you. Seriously.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Other than that, I thought that this game was great. I'm surprised that there were only 5 mafia, as I was honestly expecting 6. Alot of the subtleties in the game were amazing(the various spells that could be cast, and the limitations behind them). I particularly liked that the masonry showed up as green, because it kept everyone on their toes and paying attention. I thought that Axelrod getting NKed was ridiculously lucky for us, as trying to pin him down as the mafia GF would have been quite the considerable task. I also thought that MJM's complete meltdown when he was forced to claim was pretty hilarious.
It appears DYH has sigged me. I'm honored.
Edit: Oh, btw, one person I need to apologize to is Xyre. Given my PM and the fact that you claimed vanilla Brothers Yamazaki, I didn't see how you could be town. But apparently LJ is tricky like that.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
-Alpha
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Of course, the reason I ended up pursuing Xyre so doggedly was the fact that he started questioning me for hints of role information. I was pretty sure he was scum trying to force me to out myself as non-vanilla, because I was virtually the only claimed red character. I was surprised more people didn't figure out I was the doc as soon as I certified that I was non-vanilla.
Obviously we should have lost this game. I had my excuses all lined up - we were horribly underpowered, the town was nuts, one of us got mod-killed, the SK offed me. But I guess you never can tell.
One must give mad props to MMoD for perservering in the face of ridiculous odds, and for gambiting like he did when presented with Chamber's claim. I'm fairly sure that in his place I would never have gone for it like he did, and consequently lost.
Reading along, I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on with Chamber, except I was sure the mafia had already lost, and Chamber was either (1) some kind of recruiting cultist who had converted MMoD out from under us, or (2) just setting MMoD up for a huge fall. Actually, I also was holding out hope Chamber was some kind of "sleeper" mafia we just didn't know about at the beginning of the game. I guess this last one was almost right.
Thank you LJustus for an extremely well run game. I don't know about the "balance" (I might run my own numbers on that one some time ;)) but it was fun.
As for the real masons I became more and more convinced that you all had an alternative win condition. The spells seemed so parallel that I figured you had to.
Finally, I again have to agree with Axelrod that you did a great job LJ. The revelation of all the PMs just confirms this to me. Although I am still wondering one thing: What specially did AG do to get mod killed?
I would jsut like to end this post with a: I love you chamber.
While keeping in mind that this is just a game, I think Cyan has a point here.
I'm not quite sure if you simply thought you were making a bold play, or whether there was also an element of trying to enjoy yourself and help out a friend at the same time, but if it was the latter, then that's something we want to avoid in the future. Out-of-game relationships should have nothing to do with interactions within a game.
When folks sign up for a game of mafia, there's an expectation that each player will play to win, without bias. If, for instance, a player claims cop on day one just to screw around and get a kick out of the other players' reactions to it, then they're jeopardizing the experience for other players, and the mod.
I'll be the first to admit that being creative can be fun, but we have to be careful that our pursuit of "fun" doesn't detract from other players' experiences with the game.
That said, I'm glad that most people, including myself, are regarding the end result of the game with a good-natured sense of humor, rather than frustration.
[/soapbox]
Honestly, do you enjoy winning more, or do you actually enjoy playing the game more? If it's the former, then I think you're playing this game for the wrong reason.
edit: Did you really think he destroyed the game? It was progressed just like other games. Destroying a game would be something like a mafia just blurting out all the other mafia members. He simply made a play that caused the town to lose, and his decision was based on what he knew about me. Is that different from metagaming? I think not.
sigh.
To Azrael's point, there are expectations when you play a game; you play to win, and you play right. You don't go to a pick up game of basketball and switch the basketball with a football to watch everyone else get annoyed.
I don't mind that chamber usually plays differently than everyone else, his voting without reason et al. I don't generally make a big deal out of your chronic lurking problem. However, when the boundary is crossed that sours the taste of the overall experience for others, that's something you should take into deep consideration. Everyone here plays for fun- chamber's idea of 'fun' here clearly didn't match up with the group as a whole. That's the problem.
EWP: Absolutely he blew this game up.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Yes, it caused the loss of the game for the town.
But think about it. If you are pretty darn sure someone is town, I believe this is a valid play if you believe they will be saved. Where the problem came in is MMOD was actually scum. Looking at the day after Chamber was killed, you still had the opportunity to vote him and the reason (Chamber didnt' show up as a mason, while the other group did). I'm pretty sure I can chalk this up to poor play rather than screwing up the game.
It's like if, as a townie, I false-claimed cop on the first day, outed the real cop, then got lynched. Or aggressively vigged 2 or more people the first night, including the cop.
You don't know the motives behind the poor play until you know what's going on in the player's mind. You might say it screwed up the game, but it didn't, it was a poor play decision.
-fadeblue- Action confirmed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Hooga was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|HuntedCharlie was a Bodyguard (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm has been killed
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Xylthixlm was a Vigilante (town)
<fadeblue> MAFIABOT|Game over! Winners: (mafia)fullversion+
We lost? uhh, damn.
You play right? There are definitions on right and wrong. Then the Azwolg-situation would be a "wrong" play, and so is A_H's fayul play. Chamber's play was bad (worse then the other two I'd say), but calling these plays wrong is going a bit far.
Honestly, I don't think it affected everyone as much it's made out to be (it did affect a few people quite badly). I would like it if the people who's experience in this game was just ruined by that one play would say so.
Also, I doubt many people's definition of fun is the same as mine. Chamber's definition of fun didn't match up with others, but like what I said above, I want to hear how many people actually had their experience in this game ruined because of Chamber's 'fun'.
Again, I don't believe that this is considered "blowing the game up". I consider blowing the game up to be something that happens in the game, that just ruins it right there for the rest of the players. When chamber made that move, the game progressed quite normally as if we were actually masons.
To be clear about a few things:
-I enjoyed this game. I think most people did. This was a good game. It was not destroyed.
-I'm not upset over the final outcome, in fact, I find it fairly amusing. It's probably going to go down in most people's minds as a great game with a hilarious, ironic ending.
-I very much doubt that Chamber went into it thinking "hey, let's toss the game to my buddy MMoD".
If I had to take a stab at what was inside of Chamber's head, which is difficult, since I'm not him, I'd say it was something along the lines of "let's try out something neat with my friend, because I have a hunch that he's really town".
Which is cool, and perfectly fine. I don't think he was intentionally playing uncompetitively.
But to speak to your point of winning vs. having fun, the reason all of us play is to have fun. Problem is, the thing that draws people in, and gives a game suspense, that puts people on the edge of their seat, is the drama of two groups of people duking it out. Winning or losing may not matter, but the fact that there's a fight, a conflict, is what draws people into the game, and makes it exciting. It's the reason we're here. If it was just a bunch of people screwing around aimlessly, with no object, nobody would play.
So to keep the game fun, it's important that the conflict between players is real. Out-of-game relationships should hopefully not be allowed to warp the games.
They might help you get reads on people, they might help make you more confused. Either way, that's fine. But what I'm hoping for is that people will be aware of that, and not let their out-of-game relationships affect their playing style significantly. If it gives you more information, that's great. But setting up gambits without taking a hard look at exactly why you're doing it is something we want to avoid.
I'm not saying don't run gambits with someone you know in real life, I'm just saying, don't let your relationships blind you. That's all.
It depends on your definition of ruined. Would I do it again? Sure. Is it really frustrating that people do this? Absolutely.
Playing with you guys is like playing with someone with an aimbot in counterstrike. You may find it fun, but I don't anyone else thinks it's enjoyable. What happens to those people in counterstrike? Their team kills them right when the round starts to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)