This was also in no way a defense of Reya. Here are my actual opinions on Reya. He is, like me, fairly green. He is not playing optimally and therefore has made suggestions that seem to be not in the best interest of the town. He may be scum he may not but please please please do not let his awkward posts make you think he is scum. I believe he makes these posts because he is not that experienced.
Sorry, rereading. Lot's o' stuff . . . Anyways, I concur with Poggy on not taking Reya's noobiness as a sign scum. I think you all know this, but, I've been there, and it sucks.
And, though Poggy got it, I would've been lurking, which is being on for a period of time without posting. Especially if you then disappear without posting. But, for the record I do fence sit a lot.
...I'd like some content when you finish re-reading
What do you think of people's views of you being Scum?
Yeah, Poggy is town. His flailing in the beginning didn't really appear as flailing to me, just town dealing with an asinine situation. He was facing a bulldoging Naka with some very poor points based on flavor. Really, the only responses he could have made were the ones he made, and eventually it becomes a tiresome and frustrating ordeal. His responses became flailish towards the end, but from my experience, townies flail just as much, if not more, than scum. Also, he's taken the cop issue to a whole new level, something that screams townie when I'm reading it coming from a newer player. It shows a true investment into the game and it shows strong signs of scumhunting. Even though there likely is no CC, it's still very important to be looking for one, as that will out a scum somewhere. Poggy taking this issue too seriously is a town tell IMO.
As for his fight with Naka, that helped to clear him before, but now that Naka is mostly-confirmed town, not so much. However, the fact that Poggy kept up his play instead of disappear AND the fact that a few other players did disappear during their fight, makes me believe that the Naka-Poggy brawl was a town brawl. That, plus the reasons listed above, give me a town read on the PogMan.
As for people with scum-views on me, that's fine. If they think I'm scum, they will present their opinions and we'll take it from there. I haven't seen any of that though, and I've only seen a few people mention that they are keeping their eye on me because I'm experienced and might be pulling a trick or something. I'm not really worried about that stuff, and it actually gives me better town reads on those people, because I expect them to keep an eye on me just as much as they keep an eye on everyone else. A good townie will be watching everyone.
Back to the point though, if there comes a time when everyone suspects me then we'll cross that bridge when it comes, but until that time, I'm going to continue to scumhunt instead of dwell on possible suspicion.
I didn't mean that CC is bad. What i ment was that if naka was scum he might claim cop to see who would CC. A thought and probably a bad one reviewing it. It could also confuse the doctor. Looking back at it my point is totally flawed.
Actually, and I think Shalako covered this, but this is a common scum tactic. That's not to say that Naka is scum, just that she could be scum trying to out a PR.
Let me take this time to mention that we should drop the cop issue. The only thing I want to hear on the issue anymore is the CC's/no CC's from players who haven't yet. I don't care for the speculation that there isn't a cop at all and I don't care for the "that's not how you play cop" arguments. The fact is that Naka claimed cop and hasn't been CCed. There are two things you never lynch in Mafia: UnCCed Doc and UnCCed Cop. If Naka is lying, we'll deal with it later, but for now, she's not the lynch for the day and we should drop it to continue the hunt.
So wait, your top two on your scumlist were Naka, who was heavily attacking Poggy all game, and then Poggy? That doesn't make sense. You think they are both scum, attacking each other this early in the game? I need you to validate your reasoning for me.
Exlight is screaming scum to me, and I think this post is a good sign that he's just picking at weak targets. The two top players on his scumlist have not only opposed each other nearly the entire game, but they have been the largest targets the entire game too. His logic is flawed and I think he's scum.
Vote Exlight
I want a response to this before I go into more detail.
So, I was re-reading the thread, trying to make sense of whats going on. And I came across this gem. I actually ran nearly this exact gambit as scum in a game on another site, trying to convince the town that it makes sense for a uncounterclaimed power role to not be killed by the Mafia because it can just be roleblocked, when actually the Mafia just has alternative reasons to keep them alive. In this case, my theory is that Naka is Mafia, as is Ice King, and this whole cop claim is a gambit. This post keeps the pressure off naka in the event that he survives the night (note that the doctor protection won't do it, as the Mafia plans on killing someone else).
This post in itself is obviously not enough, there's an element of WIFOM involved (although, IMO, small). As such, I went through the game looking at the Naka/Ice King interactions. The PBPA follows:
This is the second post in the game for each of them (first posts were largely irrelevant). Not much here, but it sets the tone for many of the interactions to follow. Of note is Ice King acting passively, asking for discussion lines to follow while Naka takes control and directs the town as its leader by supplying a discussion route. These attitudes complement each other, as a self-imposed leader with a guy following him is much more influential than a leader with no followers.
Naka keeps posturing to be the leader of the town. Her directive at the end of each post is soon to become classic Naka, and makes it clear she is trying to lead the flow of the towns discussion.
Again, a directive at the end of the post. A less serious one, but still, a clear leadership role by Naka.
A directing question.
Taking a superior posture via absolute game theory and then, again, posturing as a leader. I'm gonna stop including everytime Naka does a leader posturing post, cause its nearly all of them until she dissappears for a while. The, on their own, are not really significant, as towns people try to lead all the time. What is significant is the subtle way Ice King supports her leadership while opposing her.
Ice wanders back into the game here, having been absent through the whole draco episode and the poggy tasteless claim. Somehow, he's missed all that. Hopefully a leader can step in and show him the light...
Hoorah! So Naka directs Ice, how will he take it?
Beautiful. He does respond to Nakas direction, further reinforcing his passive-willing-to-be-led-by-Naka style. He then goes on to say that the town needs to organize itself. Hmmm...so he follows Naka, and the subtly suggest that others do the same. However, he doesn't respond to the tasteless claim as Naka asked, so, way to show some backbone.
Oh, nvm. He corrects that oversight shortly (note that there was only 1 post, one of bebos, between this one and the one before). So, Ice continues to follow Nakas direction. But in this post a new trend begins to emerge: he's following Naka, but he's also opposing her opinion, as Naka thinks poggy claim is significant. It is certainly a little odd to follow someone who you don't think is on the right trail.
So, Naka begins to push for a softclaim, and Ice King responds (being led to the discussion), but again, opposes Naka, lightly chastising her. In my mind, its becoming clear that this was a set-up plan: Naka trys to become a leader, Ice King supports her subtly by following, but opposes her opinions instead of barning her so that when one flips scum, the other doesn't go down. Its interesting that >90% of Ice Kings posts are interactions with Naka, and no one noticed because the intense buddying Naka had with Shalako overshadowed it.
Ice King opposes Naka's proposed claim, but states his willingness to be led along a different path. The same posturing as always.
This is in response to the above Ice post. Tacky mentioned in his PBPA that the why don't you propose a soft-claim comment is a pretty clear jab at Ice, I agree. It establishes animosity between the two, but at the same time, reinforces the leadership posturing thats been going on the whole time.
Ice actually strikes out on his own a bit here. Sure, he does so in support of Nakas campaign on poggy, but its a bit different from the norm and worth noting. In the second paragraph, theres a really cool interaction: on the surface he's opposing Naka, as hes just laughing in his face, as Naka just called poggy out on being scummy for FoS instead of voting. However, by acknowledging the issue at all, Ice King is tacitly implying that Naka's opinions are of critical importance -- she's his leader, even when they disagree. He then, makes sure to respond to Naka. Can't ignore the leader.
The important part is the second paragraph, the incoming wrath at Ice King for being conservative with his vote.
...
Oh wait...
Yeah, she called him on it....but it was really lukewarm. Get your heart into it, Naka! Poggy got so much more fire for the exact same thing. Others have commented on this, and its really pretty scummy.
Ice king is continuing to be nearly the perfect follower, although he's branching out from just Naka. He's responding to every issue on the table, but not really providing new content, or even attempting to forge discussion ahead. The whole point of establishing Naka as a leader was so that people would go where she lead. She lead to the poggy wagon, and now Ice is distancing himself slightly from her, while still being a follower. He's also now supporting the poggy wagon: sensing weakness, the Mafia strikes on poor flailing poggy. Also of note is that his self-meta is way off here: he claims he likes being the center of attention, but has clearly allowed himself to be led to this point.
At this point, Naka dissappears and Tacky calls attention to how scummy Naka has been, and the Naka wagon starts. Ice King is conspiciously absent...and then Shalako makes some pressure comment and votes him:
Ice King responds promptly to that, despite staying quiet on nearly everything else. Pretty scummy. Also, there is no content in this post.
Makes the totally legitimate case to slow down the Naka wagon as she is not here. Rest of the post doesn't have much in it, aside from pointedly not flailing under one vote. The naka thing is hard to characterize: it's a good play for anyone to slow down the wagon while she's not here, but, if she's mafia, its 100% necessary for her scumbuddies to do so.
Another content-light post. I kind of feel like Ice is trying hard to stay visible while not saying too much. The most content-filled thing is the @ Bug, which is cute, in that he says he doesn't think shalako and naka are both scum...clearly he doesn't think one of them is scum, but doesn't say which, so that he can equivocate it later, depending on if they decide to buss naka or not. I think the townie play would be to say which one you think is not mafia.
There was some debate over this later about whether or not Naka claimed a power role. Its clear to me that he strongly hinted at it. It would have been really easy to just ignore the whole thing, or post an explanation of why a vanilla townie should play as hes been playing. Instead, he's setting the stage for his cop claim.
Ice is finally back. Apparently the completely reasonable amount of action and the two major cases (Naka and Poggy) bore him. Sorry. He then manages to post very little content, aside from saying that nothing is confirmed yet -- which is fairly obvious.
Ice jumping on heartwork in the defense of naka. Heart's point was pretty valid, and this post of Ice's is kind of shady. I mean, if you don't think naka claimed power role, fine. However, I see no reason to vote Heart here. It's a reasonable interpretation of naka's post. Ice doesn't give a reason for voting heart, just refutes heart's vote placement. Also, I totally remember him claiming to be a conservative voter....
Yet another TIK post that doesn't prove much content, just kind of meanders in there and answers a question and drifts back out. He has yet to make a solid case for anything.
This PBPA is getting easier, for the last several pages I've just scrolled to the TIK posts and commented on how their not really saying anything.
Woah. That's a lot of exclamation points. Yes, Poggy made a mistake. Kind of a shady mistake. And then you just HoS him instead of a vote. You voted Heartwork for FAR less. I kind of feel like you can't vote poggy because that would be too many scum on his wagon, trying to stay clear. I don't know.
So now the whole Naka claiming thing happens. I think the way it happened was pretty relevant, so I'm gonna quote like 6 posts in a row that happened chronologically.
Vote Count is L-2
So she doesn't want to claim. Then poggy says very unforcefully that he would like a claim, and Naka changes to being willing. Poggy, the person Naka hates, has inspired this change. Interesting.
The "hammer" on this claim vote that Naka started on himself is Reya, a player that Naka has railed on for being noobish this whole game. Poggy + Reya is all it takes.
There was a lot of confusion about the vote count, Shalakos unvote actually made it L-3. Its a good thing he did this so quick, so Naka doesn't have to claim.
Not good. Naka claimed. For someone who didn't want to, he sure did it under little pressure and ended up basically prompting it himself. I've come to the conclusion that Naka wanted to claim, that this is a scum gambit.
I've been trying to avoid posting about how scummy Naka is cuz its been done to death. He only didn't get lynched cuz of un CCed cop. But look at this post. He decides that poggy is town JUST LONG ENOUGH to be 'pressured' into claiming by him (when its pretty clear that Naka wanted to claim) and then immediatly shifts his vote and his suspicion back on poggy for an extremely flimsy reason. Naka made the exact same mistake on the vote count, since he claimed at L-3. Of course, I would assume that you double check the vote count at least twice before claiming cop to make sure, especially when its as clearly erroneous as it is, but Naka apparently doesn't want to do that.
Ice King, saying obvious things and supporting Naka. Again, another perfect opportunity to shift his vote to poggy, who just suggested lynching an un-counter-claimed cop, but didn't. I maintain he is under scum 'orders' to not vote poggy in order to prevent the whole scum being on his wagon in the vote counts.
The post that started the re-read. This whole cop claim looks more and more like a huge scum gambit, more on this post-spoiler in the summary of my read of the scums plan.
Further setting up Naka's continued existence to not be suspicious.
Yeah. Support of his earlier RB theory, and an attempt to move on before everyone checks in on the CC. We have infinite time, so waiting for everyone to post saying their not CCing (or at least post so we know their aware) is not a bad idea. However, if there is a CC waiting in the wings and the scum speed lynch poggy before that happens...thats pretty good for them.
So, in summary:
Ice King and Naka = scumbuddies.
They start off by working together to make Naka into a leader of the town and thus able to control the discussion, while they disagree on all content things, so as to not be accused of buddying. Naka, as the one in the limelight, is the one that is prepped to be eventually bussed, and as such, befriends Shalako to 1) overshadow his Ice King relationship and 2) take a townie with him, hopefully. This plan worked really well for a while/
Naka dissappears and the naka wagon forms. Ice King largely stays out of it, trys to slow it down, but mostly lurks and doesn't really post much during this time period.
Naka comes back and ends up claiming cop. This looks like a prepared scum gambit that can go one of two ways:
Naka's counterclaimed: Scum finds the cop, trades a scum who was probably going to be lynched anyway for knowledge of the cop. If their lucky they manage to lynch the other cop. Can probably use Naka's lynch to earn townie points by bussing him. Not great, but not bad either. Better than letting Naka just die.
Naka is not counterclaimed: This is amazing for the scum. They get a guy who is high probabibility townie who can than resume her leadership role and direct a few mislynches in the name of scumhunting. The scum not killing her is answered by TIKs RBing theory, which also explains why she doesn't have any information results.
Now, its important to note that Naka not being CCed does not mean she is the cop. That is not necessarily a cop in this game (if there is no cop in this game, this is the best case scenario for the scum, as their gambit is the most successful with no risk. I did some research on basics: from basic 1-22, the following games had no cops:
7, 8, 9, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22
#11 had no townie cop, but a mafia rolecop.
It is entirely plausible that there is no townie cop to counterclaim Naka.
So, it is bad to lynch Naka here, as he could be the cop, and no way do we want to mislynch our cop. Instead I vote we lynch TIK. His scum case is really solid, and the interactions with Naka drive it over the top. Today we lynch TIK, and when he flips scum, naka becomes an easy lynch day 2.
Vote: The Ice King
In the interest of full disclosure, I currently put the third member of the mafia as IBug. I'm not nearly as sure about this one, but he played into the cop gambit a bit too and his interactions with TIK and naka are a bit suspicious. I'd rather not make that case right now, as TIK is a better lynch and there will be more info tomorrow.
I don't think this is correct at all, but I do think that QF is town. This post required effort, more effort than most scum will apply in a basic. I like this post if only for it's length.
It's just not solid because 1. it pushes for a scum-Naka, which isn't likely 2. assumes a connection between two players and is primarily based around that and 3. applies a Meta on basics that is faulty.
The list of basics that have and do not have cops isn't going to help any because they are all by different people. Each mod can design a game however they want, therefore a proper meta would focus more on a specific Mod's games. So if someone told me that SomeOne has ran 10 basic games and out of those 10, 9 didn't have a cop, I'd be more willing to believe the argument. However, I don't know that Someone has hosted more than this game, so the sample of information available to us becomes incredibly small, which means that we are more likely to make a mistake rather than apply the meta in a proper way. Know what I mean?
i dont like how this day has stalled over a cop role.
i still think we should be suspicious of naka. but all this distraction by poggy is not good.
Wait wait wait. If you don't like the stalling, why don't you scumhunt?
Also, aren't you already voting for poggy and calling him scum without rhyme or reason? So why now are you saying that the Poggy situation is a "distraction" and going back to the Naka issue? Shouldn't Poggy be your main focus, since, you know, you've been calling him scum for pages and are currently voting him? And I thought you cleared Naka. I agree that we should still be suspicious, but I want to hear your answer of why. This post is almost completly contradicting your recent activity in the thread.
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I'd like everyone to vote on who I should investigate tonight.
If we end up with Poggydude not lynched today, I'd like to investigate him, but if he's still alive I'm between Reya, ExLight, and TACKY (to confirm that he's Town, as that what I feel he is) for now.
Depending on who gets lynched I think poggy should get it. if hes gone then Exlight. He seems to be agressive without much reason if any reason at all. Voting someone because they are a distraction?
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i am scumhunting. i contributed my thoughts on the naka and poiggy situation.
even though i sorta belive naka's claim, i think we should still be wary of her.
and i see no logic involved at all in poggy's constant harping of cops in past games. thus, i believe this is a distraction and it hampers the town.
The point was that a cop claim is not a confirmed town, something both QF and I(and probably a few others) were not aware. (true) Information NEVER hurts town so that's why I brought it up.
You really do need to explain how naka and I both ended up on your scum list that is just plain silly. You have been jumping in on the attack of me while giving little reason as to why. The only info we have on you if from your unreasoned attacks on me and naka.
i am scumhunting. i contributed my thoughts on the naka and poiggy situation.
even though i sorta belive naka's claim, i think we should still be wary of her.
and i see no logic involved at all in poggy's constant harping of cops in past games. thus, i believe this is a distraction and it hampers the town.
I would like a more direct response to my points against you in my last post. You hardly touch them here. Quote them in your post next time, so I know that you know what my points are.
Specific points I can recall:
Reasonless votes and claims against other players
Contradicting scumlist with Naka and Poggy
Choosing weak targets
Furthermore, I still want an answer to why Naka is cleared in your own words.
As for this post I'm quoting, you suddenly have reasoning for your vote! It's scummy to have your reasoning after your vote, mostly because it looks like you were just pushing a lynch while you were looking for a good reason. Usually townies have a good reason to vote someone when they vote, but a scummy person will see a good target for a quick mislynch and vote quickly hoping to lynch a townie. Obviously the scummy person can't post that as their reasoning to vote, or they would out themselves, so they make up a reason instead. However, sometimes a scummy player will be in such a rush to mislynch that they forget the fake reasoning they had planned and just push the lynch and come up with something later.
I think that's exactly what Ex is doing. IIRC, he placed a pretty early vote on Naka as soon as he entered the game and is now hopping wagons once he see's that Naka's is dead. He's hopping onto the next easiest target too, and only now is he giving his reasoning for why Poggy is the next obvious scum.
Next, we have the matter that he thinks Poggy is being distracting with the CC issue. That's his primary reason for voting Poggy that I've seen so far.
First, why is Poggy bringing attention to CC issues a scummy thing? Why does it deserve your voting attention?
Second, are you saying the town shouldn't care about a counterclaim and take a cop claim at face value? You seem to think the issue is a distraction, therefore not valuable. I'm inclined to believe that you are just accepting that Naka's a cop and want to move on to the next lynch. It's tipping your scumhat.
Finally, you mention that Poggy has rambled about cops in previous games and it was distracting. Was poggy scum in any of the games he did this, or was he town?
I expect a very detailed response. I think this will be a good direction for the town to head.
All in all, I think this quoted post above does very little to explain your vote, and it only raises more questions of your own character.
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While I stand by my theory, its become clear that no one else is interested, so I'm just going to let it die for now.
As such, Unvote
The lynch I'm currently most comfortable with, then, is probably ExLight. The points that Tacky have against him make a lot of sense. By my count, he's only at 2 votes, so I feel fine pressuring him: Vote: ExLight
He hasn't had too much time to post yet, due to the replacement, so hopefully this pressure lets us get a better read.
even though i sorta belive naka's claim, i think we should still be wary of her.
What is there not to believe in naka's claim. No one counter claimed although Draco might have been cop i highly doubt it. I want to know what you think is wrong with naka's claim.
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While I stand by my theory, its become clear that no one else is interested, so I'm just going to let it die for now.
As such, Unvote
The lynch I'm currently most comfortable with, then, is probably ExLight. The points that Tacky have against him make a lot of sense. By my count, he's only at 2 votes, so I feel fine pressuring him: Vote: ExLight
He hasn't had too much time to post yet, due to the replacement, so hopefully this pressure lets us get a better read.
Well, that was quite a reversal. You try to start a wagon, and so quickly, you jump from me, don't even go after the other scum in your scum buddy theory, but for the hot topic lynch right now, exlight? FoS quietfish
Exlight, that doesn't excuse you, still waiting on an answer...
Well, that was quite a reversal. You try to start a wagon, and so quickly, you jump from me, don't even go after the other scum in your scum buddy theory, but for the hot topic lynch right now, exlight? FoS quietfish
Exlight, that doesn't excuse you, still waiting on an answer...
I still think you're scum, and I think Naka's scum. However, its been made clear that no one else is going to touch your lynch, and I'm not going to try and lynch a not-counter-claimed cop on Day 1 based on a read. Working under the assumption that my theory's wrong, I think ExLight is the next most likely scum. You seem to agree that he's scummy in some form, as you want answers too.
I said earlier that I really didn't like how Exlight was one of the last people to jump on the Naka lynch wagon, and how he did so for a pretty crap reason. In light of the last couple pages in which he has mostly been attacking anyone who seems like an easy target, I'm gonna have to go with him as scum.
I still think you're scum, and I think Naka's scum. However, its been made clear that no one else is going to touch your lynch, and I'm not going to try and lynch a not-counter-claimed cop on Day 1 based on a read. Working under the assumption that my theory's wrong, I think ExLight is the next most likely scum. You seem to agree that he's scummy in some form, as you want answers too.
I think your flip-flopping looks bad, but I also believe that your opinion on me is townish, as why would you draw attention to yourself calling me scum, if most of the others have a town read on me...
Just keeping an eye on you, no need to worry about that if your town
I actually like QF's ideas, but agree that now may not be the time to follow them, especially with the general town dismissal. I really don't like TIK's reaction to them, and I'm just seeing him as scum all over at the moment. Not sure how I feel about ExLight as scum, still working on my reread, busy with work, etc.
Lack of Cop CC does not confirm Naka, there are often other town info roles. I don't think anyone who has one should CC today though. Gather info, it's good for us.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Im still waiting for exlight to answer my question I advise people not to quick lynch him before he can reply.
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What is there not to believe in naka's claim. No one counter claimed although Draco might have been cop i highly doubt it. I want to know what you think is wrong with naka's claim.
Lack of Cop CC does not confirm Naka, there are often other town info roles. I don't think anyone who has one should CC today though. Gather info, it's good for us.
Furthermore, I still want an answer to why Naka is cleared in your own words.
Next, we have the matter that he thinks Poggy is being distracting with the CC issue. That's his primary reason for voting Poggy that I've seen so far.
Finally, you mention that Poggy has rambled about cops in previous games and it was distracting. Was poggy scum in any of the games he did this, or was he town?
1. read above barned ppost of indomitables. he beat me to it. some games dont have cops. but might have some other role of a watcher type.
2. nope, poggy's early thread flailing is also a reason why he and naka where on my scum list.
3. as far as i know, this is poggy's (first?) maybe second game, neither completed and he hasnt done this in the other game.
revised scum list. SCUM-1. Poggy-ealry flailing and the cop counter claim distraction
Leaning scum-
Naka-even though claims cop-could be lying never know. so IGMEOY
Quietfish-very fast flip off of TIK onto me based on obviously barn and blind following of Tacky, i dont like this.
Leaning town-
Tacky-Even though his attack on me is weak due to not reading everything, he has some valid questions which needed to be answered.
Town-
1. Indomitable bug- logical posting and sense throughout, so far, nothing pings even remotly on my scumdar, so here he goes for now
Again, that mystical voice from the sky speaks out! He tells you that those who can speak to each other outside the boundaries of what is public can only do so at times when conventional conversation is disallowed.
I dont feel Exlight is scum atm after reading response. I see poggy suspicious but not extremely scummy. Also should my vote be taken of since draco is gone?
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I dont feel Exlight is scum atm after reading response. I see poggy suspicious but not extremely scummy. Also should my vote be taken of since draco is gone?
If you turn up Scum, it won't put ExLight in a very good place, but if you're not, he's practically cleared. You may be a decent target for my investigation tonight.
And, no, you don't have to remove your vote, but it's usually accepted that you should until you hear from his/her replacement.
depending on your tolerance for awesome liquor, i am quite delicious, so nope
So not trying to game the mod or anything but the two scummiest people that I’ve seen are alcoholic, I would kind of like to see an alcoholic softclaim but that’s just me.
question 1. why did you add me ? just because poggy said so? this is very unrealistic.
2. or is the scum because of mootastic?
This was responding to naka putting Exlight on his scum list. This was a reasonable response. The only thing I’m gleaning off of this is that is Exlight flips scum naka is probably innocent but this is slightly WIFOM.
SCUM1. poggy dude-massive flailing, claiming way to early, and im pretty sure his claim of fiji water is false
2. nakamura-very obvious deflection off of himself onto poggy because of said flailing.
leaning scum
1. dracofaust-his play isnt as scummy as naka and poggy, but it is there.
2. bebo22-massive fence sitting and he was lurking for a while
leaning town
1. shalako-even though he was on the whole poggy thing, his reasons were valid, and he wasnt even near as aggressive as naka on the whole deal
Town
1. Tacky- nice content filled posts, with very logical points.
neutral everyone else
So I’m at the top of his scum list for reasons already given, except he adds that my Fiji water claim is probably false. HOW? WHY? Why on Earth would I claim something that isn’t strictly delicious? That is absurd. I mean calling me scum because of my drink is one thing, but saying I lied about my drink is freaking absurd.
Seems like something naka should have answered originally. This seems to be done to just put some pressure on naka. I feel like this goes to show if ExLight flips scum naka is cleared(either that or they’ve got some amazing dichotomy tricks going)
why are you not going to claim? that is VERY SCUMMY! UNVOTE: VOTE NAKAMURA
This is actually beautiful. He uses a misunderstanding(that naka is going to refuse to claim her role forever) to slip in a vote on naka to put pressure on her. The misunderstanding is cleared up quite quickly but the vote remained.
A name claim is weak, basically she soft claimed, i want a full claim before i remove my vote. i am not convinced with just a name claim, since ive never heard of hunch punch. so its probably nasty
So he backs up note removing his vote and goes for the hard claim even though his reason for voting was a pure misunderstanding. He also claims to have the power to tell if beverages are nasty just by name alone. I mean are you really insinuating that naka would claim a gross drink, If you can’t tell Exlight wants this lynch(or claim) so bad.
So here’s where he changes votes. This is really absurd to me to just be going down a “scum list”. I mean is he really going after net scumminess? I don’t know if he has been reading the same game that I’ve been reading but I don’t think naka and I should ever be on the same scumlist, EVER. So this will use a little WIFOM but I feel it is mostly reasonable: If naka and I have both been scum why would we attack each other this hard? I mean we have almost turned this game into a lynch one or the other situation which is pretty awful for the mafia to do d1 imho(although I’m pretty sure quietfish has been in that situation before).
So I was saying to take reya’s experience into account when determining his affiliation and got this as a response. So a bit more WIFOM but mostly solid IMO: If I am currently at the top of most people’s scum lists, and looking like the likely lynch, why on earth would I take it as an opportunity to barn someone really hard?(FTR is wasn’t a barn but it read like one). He also gave no reason as to why it was scummy he was just trying to make me look scummy.
i dont like how this day has stalled over a cop role.
i still think we should be suspicious of naka. but all this distraction by poggy is not good.
The game should stall a little bit for the cop role as it is our most solid piece of info. I also can understand why you wouldn’t want “distraction” preventing a speedy thoughtless lynch of me.
i am scumhunting. i contributed my thoughts on the naka and poiggy situation.
even though i sorta belive naka's claim, i think we should still be wary of her.
and i see no logic involved at all in poggy's constant harping of cops in past games. thus, i believe this is a distraction and it hampers the town.
I think I have shown that you have contributed no thoughts or very little. I agree with remaining wary of naka but I feel that if exlight flips scum naka’s almost cleared. About my cop obsession, I will restate that I feel that no honest information hurts the town.
1. read above barned ppost of indomitables. he beat me to it. some games dont have cops. but might have some other role of a watcher type.
2. nope, poggy's early thread flailing is also a reason why he and naka where on my scum list.
3. as far as i know, this is poggy's (first?) maybe second game, neither completed and he hasnt done this in the other game.
revised scum list. SCUM-1. Poggy-ealry flailing and the cop counter claim distraction
Leaning scum-
Naka-even though claims cop-could be lying never know. so IGMEOY
Quietfish-very fast flip off of TIK onto me based on obviously barn and blind following of Tacky, i dont like this.
Leaning town-
Tacky-Even though his attack on me is weak due to not reading everything, he has some valid questions which needed to be answered.
Town-
1. Indomitable bug- logical posting and sense throughout, so far, nothing pings even remotly on my scumdar, so here he goes for now
neutraleveryone else
So he continues the awful logic of my cop distraction to keep an attack on me, w/e.
He alsostill has naka on the scum list,once again, HOW. He then puts some reasonable(though probably incorrect points) against qf. HALLELUJAH he has started posting original thought out content…after being voted on by 4 people.
So I hope this gives enough insight as to why I’m voting Exlight here’s the TL;DR: He’s been barning for almost all of his posts and just bandwagoning the most popular lynch.
Also these are every one of his posts so it should be easy for you to see what shalako somehow sees. I don't see it.
@ Naka I'm thinking reya or Bebo would be a good choice.
I'm thinking that Reya's the best choice, as he's made more than a few slips so far, and Bebo's only done so a couple of times.
Either way, Poggydude should be the lynch today. For those who can't see his horrible plays thus far, include the early claim, excessive flailing, and sudden flip in attitude, you need to look harder.
@ Naka I'm thinking reya or Bebo would be a good choice.
I would prefer his investigation be on me(provided I live) but I'm pretty sure you are going to say something like: wanting cop investigation on you SCUMTELL!!!
I would prefer his investigation be on me(provided I live) but I'm pretty sure you are going to say something like: wanting cop investigation on you SCUMTELL!!!
If you live, you will be the investigation target, but I was thinking of who to investigate if you don't live.
I'm thinking that Reya's the best choice, as he's made more than a few slips so far, and Bebo's only done so a couple of times.
Either way, Poggydude should be the lynch today. For those who can't see his horrible plays thus far, include the early claim, excessive flailing, and sudden flip in attitude, you need to look harder.
Horrible play- absolutely, I am learning this meta so yeah i can tell i really effed this up
Early Claim- It was a beverage claim when that was all you were using to attack me, I thought it was okay
Flailing- Yeah, but I feel like town should want to live, again a meta thing
Flip in attitude- I thought I'd apply what I had learn so that I'd improve
so, i didn't say I was liquefied fecal matter, I just said I have no taste...seriously naka?
You seem to be acting awfully scummy. You ask everyone dumb questions and then try to say that I claimed? unvote quietfish
FOS:Nakamura
I ask him about his tasteless flavor, in a non-agressive manner, and he comes back with a claim that I'm Scum, asks if I'm serious, berates my techniques, then puts an FoS on me, not a vote.
I need to rectify my above post i said I'd vote naka because not doing so is scummy. so here it is. If Fosing instead of voting is so scummy why would I do it as a scum? It seems like a neutral conservative move to me.
vote: nakamura
"I'm only voting for you because if I didn't that'd be Scummy, so here you are, hope that you're happy."
So if it wasn't an innocent mistake you sure treated it like one...also why the hell would I claim Fiji when I know you consider anything tasteless to be mafia. At that point I would claim something like flavored water. I claimed fiji because it is the honest to god truth. I am really kind of upset that in your book telling the truth is a scum tell.
Why would you claim Fiji? I don't know, you claimed it, not me. You just admitted that you would happily lie and say you're flavored water. Town don't happily lie.
I feel like we could just ask everyone to claim their beverage straight up. Then we can look for a clear pattern...just a thought
That's a horrible soft-claim. It's closer to a claim, because people know what tastes delicious and what doesn't, and name's give that away. It's asking everyone to post their alignment, and Town don't want that. Scum do.
So riddle me this batman, how can I be flailing when there is only one vote on me? You have more votes on yourself then I do and I'm the one flailing???
Try again dude. Also instead of claiming that I never gave evidence as to why I voted you you could go catch up.
How can you? Well, you were, which shows how much more likely you are to be Scum, since Town players don't flail even with several votes.
He also claims that I have more votes and he's the one flailing. Yeah, he is. Just because I had more votes at that time doesn't mean I'm suddenly flailing (and, if you look back at my posts, I definitely wasnt'). Trying to deflect attention. Nice work.
@shalako I am not saying I didn't flail this game I am saying that I am certainly not flailing now, when I have one vote on me.
My mafia right now is Naka, Shalako, and currently undecided. I am going to work that out soon. You I'm even shaky on(yeah i get it im a fencesitter there's nothing wrong with it dude). I am, however, almost certain that Nakamura is mafia.
Yep, the only two people who've questioned you thus far are Scum. That makes sense.
As to the third scum I'm thinking it is probably mootastic just because I haven't been getting scum vibes from anyone else
Finally, we know our third Scum member! Thanks for the shout-out, Poggy.
(To those who didn't know, at this point, Moo was posting things less Scummy than almost everybody on here, was mildly but no overly active, and there was no reason to think of him as Scum).
I'm not currently flailing right now. I feel absolutely no need to defend myself right now. Re-read my stuff. I am currently mounting an attack against naka. I am just trying to point out how awful naka's attacks were not to defend myself but to attack him.
Mounting an attack? Not flailing? The first is incredible sharp in tone, and the second is just false.
I said it because my reads so far are giving me two mafia:shalako and nakamura, everyone else seems town so logic says that mootastic is likely mafia. I was stating it not to get results but just because I honestly think it's true.
Everyone else seems Town, which means that Mootastic must be Mafia (by logic, of course)? You lost me.
I'm thinking TACKY is pulling the wool over our eyes in all honesty. I feel like he barned me because he knew i was town(because he is mafia) thinking i could get lynched and he'd look really good.
Either that or naka dies which i think they planned. Naka is probably willing to let herself get killed because she is kind of busy out of game atm and in exchange we have TACKY the "confirmed" town
I'm kinda with TACKY here, I think you have been put into a bad spot and you went along with it, I'm getting fairly strong town vibes from you but not from Naka
Read the first post. Now read the second post. Do it again if you didn't realize that he just said TACKY is pulling the wool over his eyes, but in another very-closely-posted comment, he agrees with him.
I would prefer his investigation be on me(provided I live) but I'm pretty sure you are going to say something like: wanting cop investigation on you SCUMTELL!!!
Well, yeah, because it actually is a Scum-tell in your case.
Discussions on...? First post in the game should not be a post that's pushing the discussion. Most players frown upon that.
I ask him about his tasteless flavor, in a non-agressive manner, and he comes back with a claim that I'm Scum, asks if I'm serious, berates my techniques, then puts an FoS on me, not a vote.
"I'm only voting for you because if I didn't that'd be Scummy, so here you are, hope that you're happy."
Why would you claim Fiji? I don't know, you claimed it, not me. You just admitted that you would happily lie and say you're flavored water. Town don't happily lie.
Yes, scum-hunting is absurd, and it should be called a crusade.
More in a second.
Discussions- I didn't know if we were allowed to talk yet or if we were in a pregame like thing, my bad.
@ tasteless-You were gaming the mod to get an attack on me, even shalako says that's bad. I put an FoS on you because I thought it was a little early for a vote. Saying an FoS is scummy is completely WIFOM. I changed to a vote because clearly the meta you presented me with is one in which you vote someone instead of FoSING them.
Claiming fiji- I said I'd happily claim flavored water as mafia. I would happily lie as mafia, most mafia do but I'm not lying. I do want to applaud you on so effectively mangling my words so they say exactly what they want you to say. You should enter in that contest Fox news has going. You would make a great anchor for them.
I never said scum-hunting is absurd, I said flavor gaming is absurd. Once again, Fox news, check it out.
Discussions- I didn't know if we were allowed to talk yet or if we were in a pregame like thing, my bad.
Okay.
@ tasteless-You were gaming the mod to get an attack on me, even shalako says that's bad. I put an FoS on you because I thought it was a little early for a vote. Saying an FoS is scummy is completely WIFOM. I changed to a vote because clearly the meta you presented me with is one in which you vote someone instead of FoSING them.
Yes, I was, and have already explained my reasons for that. But, you didn't change to a vote because the meta was presented that you way, you changed to a vote to please me.
Claiming fiji- I said I'd happily claim flavored water as mafia. I would happily lie as mafia, most mafia do but I'm not lying. I do want to applaud you on so effectively mangling my words so they say exactly what they want you to say. You should enter in that contest Fox news has going. You would make a great anchor for them.
You didn't say you would claim it as Scum, you just said that you would happily claim it.
I never said scum-hunting is absurd, I said flavor gaming is absurd. Once again, Fox news, check it out.
Yes, because what I was doing was Scum-hunting. You said that was absurd.
Even if ExLight is scum I don't want him to claim.
With the bread crumb that I saw it would be bad for him to claim either way.
And Yes When some replaces in the votes on them tend to get unvoted as they are a different person.
How would it be bad if a scum claims? Is there any way that is bad for town?
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First, I'd like to FoS the town here. Yep, the entire town.
People are being lazy. Instead of scumhunting, people are rehashing the entire poggy debate. In fact, for pages, Naka has been saying that poggy isn't improving, but he doesn't say how. Remember when I cased Naka earlier? I made it a point to show how often Naka will say something and provide absolutely no reasoning for it. Shalako has been at Naka's side during this entire thing helping to rehash the old arguments. This doesn't mean they are scum, just lazy hunters. There are several other people in this game, including me, who haven't had cases or rereads done on them. I encourage you all to do a reread and check out some of the other players, not just Poggy.
I'll also say that I think the biggest point against Poggy is the flailing, and I will remind the town that flailing is done by both town and scum, especially in games with newer people. Flailing is a nulltell and I will not throw my vote for that. The next biggest point against him involves a lot of flavor and mod-gaming, something that I most hella won't vote on. I'm saying now that Poggy isn't scum, especially for the reasons the town has against him. I'll eat my words if he flips scum, but I think it would be more dumb luck on the town than actual scumhunting.
1. read above barned ppost of indomitables. he beat me to it. some games dont have cops. but might have some other role of a watcher type.
2. nope, poggy's early thread flailing is also a reason why he and naka where on my scum list.
3. as far as i know, this is poggy's (first?) maybe second game, neither completed and he hasnt done this in the other game.
revised scum list. SCUM-1. Poggy-ealry flailing and the cop counter claim distraction
Leaning scum-
Naka-even though claims cop-could be lying never know. so IGMEOY
Quietfish-very fast flip off of TIK onto me based on obviously barn and blind following of Tacky, i dont like this.
Leaning town-
Tacky-Even though his attack on me is weak due to not reading everything, he has some valid questions which needed to be answered.
Town-
1. Indomitable bug- logical posting and sense throughout, so far, nothing pings even remotly on my scumdar, so here he goes for now
neutraleveryone else
This post does nearly nothing for me. It doesn't answer many of my questions.
1. Ok. This is an acceptable answer, and just about the only one I'm alright with. I asked the question expecting an answer like this, but wanted to be sure Exlight wasn't totally scummy for having suspicion on Naka.
2. So CC distraction and Flailing are the reasons you are voting Poggy. I'm glad to have you full reasoning here, but first, it's coming long after you made your vote and continually called out Poggy for being scum without saying why.
Poggy flailed a long time ago. If that's why you went and voted him, why didn't you say that when you voted?
Also, why is Flailing a scumtell? Couldn't it be done by a townie as well?
Also, why is the CC issue a scumtell? Do you think the issue is unimportant?
3. Ok, this is completely contradicting everything you said earlier. When you explained your vote, you said he's distracting the town and he does this all the time. Now you are saying that not only has he been town in other games where he might have done this, but you are also saying that he's actually not been distracting in his other games.
I encourage people to reread the past couple of back-and-forth's between me and Exlight. This is a great example right here.
My last post to Exlight contained several points and was quite lengthy if I recall correctly. Exlight's response? Here he quotes three sentances from my post, none of which are the main questions directed at him.
I've asked him for a full response. I present 1000 words against him and he defends with 100 or less. I write an essay and he writes a tweet. There's something wrong there.
Exlight is now dodging questions and suspicion, all while people are lazily hopping back onto Poggy because they have nothing better to do.
I'm stopping that right here. Exlight has been scummy as hell and deserves much more attention than he's getting. So before you vote Poggy since it's easier than doing your own research, remember this: A lazy town is a town led by scum. Be proactive.
Finally, I really dislike the smearing Ex does here. Read his town/scum list. He calls me out for not reading everything.
How? Care to explain rather than make a statement that you hope people will just believe? Cause I think I've done a damn good job at keeping up with this game. If you feel there's something I've missed, point it out. I'm doing it to you, and it's quite annoying, mostly because there is so much that you seem to be missing *COUGH*ignoring*COUGH*.
Seriously, Ex is just making general statement with nothing to back them up, and now he's attacking me, which is somewhat OMGUS, but more importantly, he's smearing me. I won't stand for that.
Reread people. It's super-secret tech!
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I thought at the time claiming drinks would be good, but considering scum may just wait until closer to the end to do this so they have a better chance of claiming you may have been right on that one, my bad.
As for flailing, I believe it was TACKY who said sometimes town flails more than scum. I mean I was flailing but just because I thought it was a perfectly normal thing to do when someone is mounting an attack based on flavor gaming. Saying that flailing is a mafia thing is such WIFOM it's not even funny
I thought the two people attacking me were scum because they were using flavor gaming and the flailing that came from flavor gaming to convict me.
As for the me calling out Moo it was because all my theories had only two mafia members in them therefore Moo is probably the third(not brilliant logic but it was my thought process. Incidentally the way Exlight is playing my guess wasn't far off. Also I'm assuming your comment about moo in parentheses was a joke.
"I'll let you reply first so I can barn you and look Town. Cool? Okay."
That post you quoted was using shalako's responses against him to show how contradictory he was being I WASNT BARNING HIM YOU ARE TWISTING MY WORDS SO HARD RIGHT NOW IT ISNT EVEN FUNNY EITHER YOU ARE BY FAR THE WORST TOWNIE IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD OR THE GREEDIEST SCUM IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD. I would vote you but you really can't vote a d1 uncced cop.
Again you do it with the translating things.
@everyone else: please for the love of god read my posts IN CONTEXT before deciding to vote me.
about TACKY- My theory that he is mafia was to point out that he is experienced enough to be scum and post this well.
So it is a scumtell i my case? Is everything a scumtell in my case?
ONTO THE NEXT POST
Pleasing Naka- I didn't know you could read my mind. I am new that is why I FoSed. I didn't know I should have voted. I was snide because you were using my newbiness as a scumtell.
Claiming flavored water- I said I would gladly claim it(implied that I was referring to being scum) Of course I wouldnt happily lie like that as town.
Your last point-You were flavor gaming that is what i was referring to
People are being lazy. Instead of scumhunting, people are rehashing the entire poggy debate.
It's being rehashed because it's not being paid attention to. People, like you, are passing his Scum plays as inexperience, pressure, and claims without reasons (when those reasons have been provided).
I'll eat my words if he flips scum, but I think it would be more dumb luck on the town than actual scumhunting.
When, not if.
Also, why is Flailing a scumtell? Couldn't it be done by a townie as well?
Town don't have a reason to flail. They defend themselves, not flail.
Seriously, Ex is just making general statement with nothing to back them up, and now he's attacking me, which is somewhat OMGUS, but more importantly, he's smearing me. I won't stand for that.
He's investigation material. Poggy is either clear Scum or really, really bad Town.
It's being rehashed because it's not being paid attention to. People, like you, are passing his Scum plays as inexperience, pressure, and claims without reasons (when those reasons have been provided).
When, not if.
Town don't have a reason to flail. They defend themselves, not flail.
He's investigation material. Poggy is either clear Scum or really, really bad Town.
Not being payed attention to- WTF, NO SERIOUSLY WHAT THE @#$%? We have been spending the majority of the game on it.
When not if- nice comeback
Defend Not Flail- I thought defending and flailing were about the same.
Poggy=scum or awful- same to you sir
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i still think we should be suspicious of naka. but all this distraction by poggy is not good.
He is lurking AND fence-sitting. It differs from his M.O. However he could have non-scum reasons for doing so.
Explain.
...I'd like some content when you finish re-reading
he didn't...
What do you agree with exlight about?
No.
TIK takes a bit to get in the game. He needs to be dragged into it by other people.
Hes been posting pro-town this whole game and I'm not going anywhere around his lynch.
True. But i'd rather not lynch a unc'c'd cop whom had a fitting role name and didn't get name-c'c'd.
Do you mean town here?
I agree with it if you meant town.
Why should we be suspicioius of Naka?
The "gambit that QuiteFish is proposing makes no sense.
So Naka decided to out her self for no reason just to take down the cop?
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Yeah, Poggy is town. His flailing in the beginning didn't really appear as flailing to me, just town dealing with an asinine situation. He was facing a bulldoging Naka with some very poor points based on flavor. Really, the only responses he could have made were the ones he made, and eventually it becomes a tiresome and frustrating ordeal. His responses became flailish towards the end, but from my experience, townies flail just as much, if not more, than scum. Also, he's taken the cop issue to a whole new level, something that screams townie when I'm reading it coming from a newer player. It shows a true investment into the game and it shows strong signs of scumhunting. Even though there likely is no CC, it's still very important to be looking for one, as that will out a scum somewhere. Poggy taking this issue too seriously is a town tell IMO.
As for his fight with Naka, that helped to clear him before, but now that Naka is mostly-confirmed town, not so much. However, the fact that Poggy kept up his play instead of disappear AND the fact that a few other players did disappear during their fight, makes me believe that the Naka-Poggy brawl was a town brawl. That, plus the reasons listed above, give me a town read on the PogMan.
As for people with scum-views on me, that's fine. If they think I'm scum, they will present their opinions and we'll take it from there. I haven't seen any of that though, and I've only seen a few people mention that they are keeping their eye on me because I'm experienced and might be pulling a trick or something. I'm not really worried about that stuff, and it actually gives me better town reads on those people, because I expect them to keep an eye on me just as much as they keep an eye on everyone else. A good townie will be watching everyone.
Back to the point though, if there comes a time when everyone suspects me then we'll cross that bridge when it comes, but until that time, I'm going to continue to scumhunt instead of dwell on possible suspicion.
Actually, and I think Shalako covered this, but this is a common scum tactic. That's not to say that Naka is scum, just that she could be scum trying to out a PR.
Let me take this time to mention that we should drop the cop issue. The only thing I want to hear on the issue anymore is the CC's/no CC's from players who haven't yet. I don't care for the speculation that there isn't a cop at all and I don't care for the "that's not how you play cop" arguments. The fact is that Naka claimed cop and hasn't been CCed. There are two things you never lynch in Mafia: UnCCed Doc and UnCCed Cop. If Naka is lying, we'll deal with it later, but for now, she's not the lynch for the day and we should drop it to continue the hunt.
So wait, your top two on your scumlist were Naka, who was heavily attacking Poggy all game, and then Poggy? That doesn't make sense. You think they are both scum, attacking each other this early in the game? I need you to validate your reasoning for me.
Exlight is screaming scum to me, and I think this post is a good sign that he's just picking at weak targets. The two top players on his scumlist have not only opposed each other nearly the entire game, but they have been the largest targets the entire game too. His logic is flawed and I think he's scum.
Vote Exlight
I want a response to this before I go into more detail.
I loled
You can't have a hangover if you are drunk 24/7.
Why and how? Making generalized statements that you expect me to take for granted and believe isn't going to work here kiddo.
I don't think this is correct at all, but I do think that QF is town. This post required effort, more effort than most scum will apply in a basic. I like this post if only for it's length.
It's just not solid because 1. it pushes for a scum-Naka, which isn't likely 2. assumes a connection between two players and is primarily based around that and 3. applies a Meta on basics that is faulty.
The list of basics that have and do not have cops isn't going to help any because they are all by different people. Each mod can design a game however they want, therefore a proper meta would focus more on a specific Mod's games. So if someone told me that SomeOne has ran 10 basic games and out of those 10, 9 didn't have a cop, I'd be more willing to believe the argument. However, I don't know that Someone has hosted more than this game, so the sample of information available to us becomes incredibly small, which means that we are more likely to make a mistake rather than apply the meta in a proper way. Know what I mean?
Anyway, Quietfish is town.
Darn. Well, looking forward to hearing from your replacement.
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG
*crosses fingers*
I love you Kpaca.
Wait wait wait. If you don't like the stalling, why don't you scumhunt?
Also, aren't you already voting for poggy and calling him scum without rhyme or reason? So why now are you saying that the Poggy situation is a "distraction" and going back to the Naka issue? Shouldn't Poggy be your main focus, since, you know, you've been calling him scum for pages and are currently voting him? And I thought you cleared Naka. I agree that we should still be suspicious, but I want to hear your answer of why. This post is almost completly contradicting your recent activity in the thread.
If we end up with Poggydude not lynched today, I'd like to investigate him, but if he's still alive I'm between Reya, ExLight, and TACKY (to confirm that he's Town, as that what I feel he is) for now.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
It's a waste using it on tacky or I.B. as they are obv town.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Reading from Clan Contest 5 He's a force that would be nice to make sure he's on the right side.
And I don't think Draco was very townie.
My thoughts on the matter.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
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i am scumhunting. i contributed my thoughts on the naka and poiggy situation.
even though i sorta belive naka's claim, i think we should still be wary of her.
and i see no logic involved at all in poggy's constant harping of cops in past games. thus, i believe this is a distraction and it hampers the town.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
The point was that a cop claim is not a confirmed town, something both QF and I(and probably a few others) were not aware. (true) Information NEVER hurts town so that's why I brought it up.
You really do need to explain how naka and I both ended up on your scum list that is just plain silly. You have been jumping in on the attack of me while giving little reason as to why. The only info we have on you if from your unreasoned attacks on me and naka.
vote: Exlight
I would like a more direct response to my points against you in my last post. You hardly touch them here. Quote them in your post next time, so I know that you know what my points are.
Specific points I can recall:
Reasonless votes and claims against other players
Contradicting scumlist with Naka and Poggy
Choosing weak targets
Furthermore, I still want an answer to why Naka is cleared in your own words.
As for this post I'm quoting, you suddenly have reasoning for your vote! It's scummy to have your reasoning after your vote, mostly because it looks like you were just pushing a lynch while you were looking for a good reason. Usually townies have a good reason to vote someone when they vote, but a scummy person will see a good target for a quick mislynch and vote quickly hoping to lynch a townie. Obviously the scummy person can't post that as their reasoning to vote, or they would out themselves, so they make up a reason instead. However, sometimes a scummy player will be in such a rush to mislynch that they forget the fake reasoning they had planned and just push the lynch and come up with something later.
I think that's exactly what Ex is doing. IIRC, he placed a pretty early vote on Naka as soon as he entered the game and is now hopping wagons once he see's that Naka's is dead. He's hopping onto the next easiest target too, and only now is he giving his reasoning for why Poggy is the next obvious scum.
Next, we have the matter that he thinks Poggy is being distracting with the CC issue. That's his primary reason for voting Poggy that I've seen so far.
First, why is Poggy bringing attention to CC issues a scummy thing? Why does it deserve your voting attention?
Second, are you saying the town shouldn't care about a counterclaim and take a cop claim at face value? You seem to think the issue is a distraction, therefore not valuable. I'm inclined to believe that you are just accepting that Naka's a cop and want to move on to the next lynch. It's tipping your scumhat.
Finally, you mention that Poggy has rambled about cops in previous games and it was distracting. Was poggy scum in any of the games he did this, or was he town?
I expect a very detailed response. I think this will be a good direction for the town to head.
All in all, I think this quoted post above does very little to explain your vote, and it only raises more questions of your own character.
I have never been scum in any forum games that i have played. QF is the only one who can attest to this as he is the only one who has played with me.
As such, Unvote
The lynch I'm currently most comfortable with, then, is probably ExLight. The points that Tacky have against him make a lot of sense. By my count, he's only at 2 votes, so I feel fine pressuring him: Vote: ExLight
He hasn't had too much time to post yet, due to the replacement, so hopefully this pressure lets us get a better read.
What is there not to believe in naka's claim. No one counter claimed although Draco might have been cop i highly doubt it. I want to know what you think is wrong with naka's claim.
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Well, that was quite a reversal. You try to start a wagon, and so quickly, you jump from me, don't even go after the other scum in your scum buddy theory, but for the hot topic lynch right now, exlight? FoS quietfish
Exlight, that doesn't excuse you, still waiting on an answer...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I still think you're scum, and I think Naka's scum. However, its been made clear that no one else is going to touch your lynch, and I'm not going to try and lynch a not-counter-claimed cop on Day 1 based on a read. Working under the assumption that my theory's wrong, I think ExLight is the next most likely scum. You seem to agree that he's scummy in some form, as you want answers too.
vote: ExLight
T2: GGElfdraziGG
Extended: GGElves!GG
EDH: BBMarrow-GnawerBB + RGRosheen MeandererRG + UUMemnarchUU
I think your flip-flopping looks bad, but I also believe that your opinion on me is townish, as why would you draw attention to yourself calling me scum, if most of the others have a town read on me...
Just keeping an eye on you, no need to worry about that if your town
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I actually like QF's ideas, but agree that now may not be the time to follow them, especially with the general town dismissal. I really don't like TIK's reaction to them, and I'm just seeing him as scum all over at the moment. Not sure how I feel about ExLight as scum, still working on my reread, busy with work, etc.
Lack of Cop CC does not confirm Naka, there are often other town info roles. I don't think anyone who has one should CC today though. Gather info, it's good for us.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
What is that L-3?
I just see exlight being exlight.
I'm VERY SURE that you guys will not like it when he claims. I don't want to say anymore about it but I think you guys missed the crumbs...
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
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/ barn indomitable's post. he beat me to it
1. read above barned ppost of indomitables. he beat me to it. some games dont have cops. but might have some other role of a watcher type.
2. nope, poggy's early thread flailing is also a reason why he and naka where on my scum list.
3. as far as i know, this is poggy's (first?) maybe second game, neither completed and he hasnt done this in the other game.
revised scum list.
SCUM-1. Poggy-ealry flailing and the cop counter claim distraction
Leaning scum-
Naka-even though claims cop-could be lying never know. so IGMEOY
Quietfish-very fast flip off of TIK onto me based on obviously barn and blind following of Tacky, i dont like this.
Leaning town-
Tacky-Even though his attack on me is weak due to not reading everything, he has some valid questions which needed to be answered.
Town-
1. Indomitable bug- logical posting and sense throughout, so far, nothing pings even remotly on my scumdar, so here he goes for now
neutraleveryone else
Again, that mystical voice from the sky speaks out! He tells you that those who can speak to each other outside the boundaries of what is public can only do so at times when conventional conversation is disallowed.
Exlight - TACKY, Poggydude, Quietfish, Heartwork (4)
Poggydude - Nakamura, Exlight, Shalako (3)
Reya Cookiebringer - Dracofaust (1)
If something isn't right with this, just make sure it is made right.
`
Let's just walk a way from the ExLight wagon when we still have a chance to let the scum WIFOM.
unvote vote poggy dude(I thought I was)
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
T2: GGElfdraziGG
Extended: GGElves!GG
EDH: BBMarrow-GnawerBB + RGRosheen MeandererRG + UUMemnarchUU
He hasn't improved.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
...I'm Sooo happy you didn't see what I saw.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
If you turn up Scum, it won't put ExLight in a very good place, but if you're not, he's practically cleared. You may be a decent target for my investigation tonight.
And, no, you don't have to remove your vote, but it's usually accepted that you should until you hear from his/her replacement.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
With the bread crumb that I saw it would be bad for him to claim either way.
And Yes When some replaces in the votes on them tend to get unvoted as they are a different person.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Completely reasonable, as he just jumped in I didn’t really expect much else.
So not trying to game the mod or anything but the two scummiest people that I’ve seen are alcoholic, I would kind of like to see an alcoholic softclaim but that’s just me.
He may have stopped barning shalako temporarily to go after naka but he promised to vote more realistically and as of yet has not stopped barning.
This was responding to naka putting Exlight on his scum list. This was a reasonable response. The only thing I’m gleaning off of this is that is Exlight flips scum naka is probably innocent but this is slightly WIFOM.
His response as to why he thinks 22bebo is scum which I can see why that is kinda scummy but how is barning to bandwagon not scummy?
So I’m at the top of his scum list for reasons already given, except he adds that my Fiji water claim is probably false. HOW? WHY? Why on Earth would I claim something that isn’t strictly delicious? That is absurd. I mean calling me scum because of my drink is one thing, but saying I lied about my drink is freaking absurd.
Of course he follows up his his mostly unoriginal attack on me with a vote, which with how much conviction he has it’ll totally stick(sarcasm)
Seems like something naka should have answered originally. This seems to be done to just put some pressure on naka. I feel like this goes to show if ExLight flips scum naka is cleared(either that or they’ve got some amazing dichotomy tricks going)
Generic post moving on
This is actually beautiful. He uses a misunderstanding(that naka is going to refuse to claim her role forever) to slip in a vote on naka to put pressure on her. The misunderstanding is cleared up quite quickly but the vote remained.
So he backs up note removing his vote and goes for the hard claim even though his reason for voting was a pure misunderstanding. He also claims to have the power to tell if beverages are nasty just by name alone. I mean are you really insinuating that naka would claim a gross drink, If you can’t tell Exlight wants this lynch(or claim) so bad.
Perfectly neutral post
So here’s where he changes votes. This is really absurd to me to just be going down a “scum list”. I mean is he really going after net scumminess? I don’t know if he has been reading the same game that I’ve been reading but I don’t think naka and I should ever be on the same scumlist, EVER. So this will use a little WIFOM but I feel it is mostly reasonable: If naka and I have both been scum why would we attack each other this hard? I mean we have almost turned this game into a lynch one or the other situation which is pretty awful for the mafia to do d1 imho(although I’m pretty sure quietfish has been in that situation before).
So I was saying to take reya’s experience into account when determining his affiliation and got this as a response. So a bit more WIFOM but mostly solid IMO: If I am currently at the top of most people’s scum lists, and looking like the likely lynch, why on earth would I take it as an opportunity to barn someone really hard?(FTR is wasn’t a barn but it read like one). He also gave no reason as to why it was scummy he was just trying to make me look scummy.
The game should stall a little bit for the cop role as it is our most solid piece of info. I also can understand why you wouldn’t want “distraction” preventing a speedy thoughtless lynch of me.
I think I have shown that you have contributed no thoughts or very little. I agree with remaining wary of naka but I feel that if exlight flips scum naka’s almost cleared. About my cop obsession, I will restate that I feel that no honest information hurts the town.
Yeah, he pretty has done nothing but barn so why should this surprise me.
So he continues the awful logic of my cop distraction to keep an attack on me, w/e.
He alsostill has naka on the scum list,once again, HOW. He then puts some reasonable(though probably incorrect points) against qf. HALLELUJAH he has started posting original thought out content…after being voted on by 4 people.
So I hope this gives enough insight as to why I’m voting Exlight here’s the TL;DR: He’s been barning for almost all of his posts and just bandwagoning the most popular lynch.
Also these are every one of his posts so it should be easy for you to see what shalako somehow sees. I don't see it.
I'm thinking that Reya's the best choice, as he's made more than a few slips so far, and Bebo's only done so a couple of times.
Either way, Poggydude should be the lynch today. For those who can't see his horrible plays thus far, include the early claim, excessive flailing, and sudden flip in attitude, you need to look harder.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I would prefer his investigation be on me(provided I live) but I'm pretty sure you are going to say something like: wanting cop investigation on you SCUMTELL!!!
If you live, you will be the investigation target, but I was thinking of who to investigate if you don't live.
May do a PBPA.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Horrible play- absolutely, I am learning this meta so yeah i can tell i really effed this up
Early Claim- It was a beverage claim when that was all you were using to attack me, I thought it was okay
Flailing- Yeah, but I feel like town should want to live, again a meta thing
Flip in attitude- I thought I'd apply what I had learn so that I'd improve
also PBPA?
So what you did on ExLight
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Discussions on...? First post in the game should not be a post that's pushing the discussion. Most players frown upon that.
I ask him about his tasteless flavor, in a non-agressive manner, and he comes back with a claim that I'm Scum, asks if I'm serious, berates my techniques, then puts an FoS on me, not a vote.
"I'm only voting for you because if I didn't that'd be Scummy, so here you are, hope that you're happy."
Why would you claim Fiji? I don't know, you claimed it, not me. You just admitted that you would happily lie and say you're flavored water. Town don't happily lie.
Yes, scum-hunting is absurd, and it should be called a crusade.
More in a second.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
That's a horrible soft-claim. It's closer to a claim, because people know what tastes delicious and what doesn't, and name's give that away. It's asking everyone to post their alignment, and Town don't want that. Scum do.
How? It only hurts the Town.
How can you? Well, you were, which shows how much more likely you are to be Scum, since Town players don't flail even with several votes.
He also claims that I have more votes and he's the one flailing. Yeah, he is. Just because I had more votes at that time doesn't mean I'm suddenly flailing (and, if you look back at my posts, I definitely wasnt'). Trying to deflect attention. Nice work.
"My Scum-buddy is Scummy! Really!"
Yep, the only two people who've questioned you thus far are Scum. That makes sense.
Finally, we know our third Scum member! Thanks for the shout-out, Poggy.
(To those who didn't know, at this point, Moo was posting things less Scummy than almost everybody on here, was mildly but no overly active, and there was no reason to think of him as Scum).
Mounting an attack? Not flailing? The first is incredible sharp in tone, and the second is just false.
Everyone else seems Town, which means that Mootastic must be Mafia (by logic, of course)? You lost me.
"I'll let you reply first so I can barn you and look Town. Cool? Okay."
You just said you were happy to have him translate, and now you're not? That's a little hypocritcal.
Read the first post. Now read the second post. Do it again if you didn't realize that he just said TACKY is pulling the wool over his eyes, but in another very-closely-posted comment, he agrees with him.
Right...
Finding enough Scum? What?
Well, yeah, because it actually is a Scum-tell in your case.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Discussions- I didn't know if we were allowed to talk yet or if we were in a pregame like thing, my bad.
@ tasteless-You were gaming the mod to get an attack on me, even shalako says that's bad. I put an FoS on you because I thought it was a little early for a vote. Saying an FoS is scummy is completely WIFOM. I changed to a vote because clearly the meta you presented me with is one in which you vote someone instead of FoSING them.
Claiming fiji- I said I'd happily claim flavored water as mafia. I would happily lie as mafia, most mafia do but I'm not lying. I do want to applaud you on so effectively mangling my words so they say exactly what they want you to say. You should enter in that contest Fox news has going. You would make a great anchor for them.
I never said scum-hunting is absurd, I said flavor gaming is absurd. Once again, Fox news, check it out.
Okay.
Yes, I was, and have already explained my reasons for that. But, you didn't change to a vote because the meta was presented that you way, you changed to a vote to please me.
You didn't say you would claim it as Scum, you just said that you would happily claim it.
Yes, because what I was doing was Scum-hunting. You said that was absurd.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
How would it be bad if a scum claims? Is there any way that is bad for town?
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People are being lazy. Instead of scumhunting, people are rehashing the entire poggy debate. In fact, for pages, Naka has been saying that poggy isn't improving, but he doesn't say how. Remember when I cased Naka earlier? I made it a point to show how often Naka will say something and provide absolutely no reasoning for it. Shalako has been at Naka's side during this entire thing helping to rehash the old arguments. This doesn't mean they are scum, just lazy hunters. There are several other people in this game, including me, who haven't had cases or rereads done on them. I encourage you all to do a reread and check out some of the other players, not just Poggy.
I'll also say that I think the biggest point against Poggy is the flailing, and I will remind the town that flailing is done by both town and scum, especially in games with newer people. Flailing is a nulltell and I will not throw my vote for that. The next biggest point against him involves a lot of flavor and mod-gaming, something that I most hella won't vote on. I'm saying now that Poggy isn't scum, especially for the reasons the town has against him. I'll eat my words if he flips scum, but I think it would be more dumb luck on the town than actual scumhunting.
Moving on.
This post does nearly nothing for me. It doesn't answer many of my questions.
1. Ok. This is an acceptable answer, and just about the only one I'm alright with. I asked the question expecting an answer like this, but wanted to be sure Exlight wasn't totally scummy for having suspicion on Naka.
2. So CC distraction and Flailing are the reasons you are voting Poggy. I'm glad to have you full reasoning here, but first, it's coming long after you made your vote and continually called out Poggy for being scum without saying why.
Poggy flailed a long time ago. If that's why you went and voted him, why didn't you say that when you voted?
Also, why is Flailing a scumtell? Couldn't it be done by a townie as well?
Also, why is the CC issue a scumtell? Do you think the issue is unimportant?
3. Ok, this is completely contradicting everything you said earlier. When you explained your vote, you said he's distracting the town and he does this all the time. Now you are saying that not only has he been town in other games where he might have done this, but you are also saying that he's actually not been distracting in his other games.
I encourage people to reread the past couple of back-and-forth's between me and Exlight. This is a great example right here.
My last post to Exlight contained several points and was quite lengthy if I recall correctly. Exlight's response? Here he quotes three sentances from my post, none of which are the main questions directed at him.
I've asked him for a full response. I present 1000 words against him and he defends with 100 or less. I write an essay and he writes a tweet. There's something wrong there.
Exlight is now dodging questions and suspicion, all while people are lazily hopping back onto Poggy because they have nothing better to do.
I'm stopping that right here. Exlight has been scummy as hell and deserves much more attention than he's getting. So before you vote Poggy since it's easier than doing your own research, remember this: A lazy town is a town led by scum. Be proactive.
Finally, I really dislike the smearing Ex does here. Read his town/scum list. He calls me out for not reading everything.
How? Care to explain rather than make a statement that you hope people will just believe? Cause I think I've done a damn good job at keeping up with this game. If you feel there's something I've missed, point it out. I'm doing it to you, and it's quite annoying, mostly because there is so much that you seem to be missing *COUGH*ignoring*COUGH*.
Seriously, Ex is just making general statement with nothing to back them up, and now he's attacking me, which is somewhat OMGUS, but more importantly, he's smearing me. I won't stand for that.
Reread people. It's super-secret tech!
As for flailing, I believe it was TACKY who said sometimes town flails more than scum. I mean I was flailing but just because I thought it was a perfectly normal thing to do when someone is mounting an attack based on flavor gaming. Saying that flailing is a mafia thing is such WIFOM it's not even funny
I thought the two people attacking me were scum because they were using flavor gaming and the flailing that came from flavor gaming to convict me.
As for the me calling out Moo it was because all my theories had only two mafia members in them therefore Moo is probably the third(not brilliant logic but it was my thought process. Incidentally the way Exlight is playing my guess wasn't far off. Also I'm assuming your comment about moo in parentheses was a joke.
"I'll let you reply first so I can barn you and look Town. Cool? Okay."
That post you quoted was using shalako's responses against him to show how contradictory he was being I WASNT BARNING HIM YOU ARE TWISTING MY WORDS SO HARD RIGHT NOW IT ISNT EVEN FUNNY EITHER YOU ARE BY FAR THE WORST TOWNIE IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD OR THE GREEDIEST SCUM IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD. I would vote you but you really can't vote a d1 uncced cop.
Again you do it with the translating things.
@everyone else: please for the love of god read my posts IN CONTEXT before deciding to vote me.
about TACKY- My theory that he is mafia was to point out that he is experienced enough to be scum and post this well.
So it is a scumtell i my case? Is everything a scumtell in my case?
ONTO THE NEXT POST
Pleasing Naka- I didn't know you could read my mind. I am new that is why I FoSed. I didn't know I should have voted. I was snide because you were using my newbiness as a scumtell.
Claiming flavored water- I said I would gladly claim it(implied that I was referring to being scum) Of course I wouldnt happily lie like that as town.
Your last point-You were flavor gaming that is what i was referring to
It's being rehashed because it's not being paid attention to. People, like you, are passing his Scum plays as inexperience, pressure, and claims without reasons (when those reasons have been provided).
When, not if.
Town don't have a reason to flail. They defend themselves, not flail.
He's investigation material. Poggy is either clear Scum or really, really bad Town.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Not being payed attention to- WTF, NO SERIOUSLY WHAT THE @#$%? We have been spending the majority of the game on it.
When not if- nice comeback
Defend Not Flail- I thought defending and flailing were about the same.
Poggy=scum or awful- same to you sir