As for town balancing, most basics have doc/cop/1-shot vig. The vig is sometimes changed to some other smaller role, but it's totally common for the town to have three power and that's it, at least in a basic.
Contradictions. Get your story straight.
A tracker is useless to the town, and yet having a cop and a tracker would be imba. I don't understand how you can believe both of those statements. You seem to be twisting facts, possibly to lynch Shalako?
We should use the vigs second shot as a second lynch, but most basics only have a one-shot vig.
It strikes me that revealing poggy as town via scum death gave you some serious townie points, Tacky, since you defended him all game. Totally WIFOM, but interesting.
A tracker is useless to the town, and yet having a cop and a tracker would be imba. I don't understand how you can believe both of those statements. You seem to be twisting facts, possibly to lynch Shalako?
We should use the vigs second shot as a second lynch, but most basics only have a one-shot vig.
It strikes me that revealing poggy as town via scum death gave you some serious townie points, Tacky, since you defended him all game. Totally WIFOM, but interesting.
FoS Tacky
BTW, Shalako claimed watcher, not tracker.
First, how does that make me scum?
Second, nothing is a contradiction. A tracker is a weak role for the town, but it's still a power role. Having both a full cop and a tracker gives the town way too much information and can potentially break the game. Add in a Doc and a vig and that's 4 power roles when there is probably only 3 scum. Town PR's outnumbering scum is a good way of telling if something is unbalanced.
Also, the bolded vig part isn't a contradiction at all either. We don't know if the vig is one shot or not, so as for now I'm hoping for a full vig. Normally it is a limited vig, but I don't know that for sure. More reason for the vig to claim. What I'm saying normally there is a limited vig, but here we don't know that, so I'm preparing for if there are more shots. If there aren't more shots then it doesn't matter, but as a town we should hope for multiple shots.
Finally, watcher/tracker, it doesn't matter, they are essentially the same. Watch/Follow one player to see where they are going or what they are doing. Awesome for scum, so-so for town.
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To answer the above question, I didn't receive any indication that anyone tried to roleblock me during the night.
As far as reads on people, I think I believe Shalako that he's town and made an honest mistake. Quietfish also comes across as quite town. That leaves six people on my possible scum list. ibug and draco are probably the scummiest looking to me at the moment.
Evidence, please. You've barely posted any content at all this game, not a lot of posts and certainly not a lot said in them. Maybe you should do some scumhunting instead of posting random accusations without any kind of content to back them up?
And...
Wow, Tacky finally makes a scummy looking post. Interesting.
First, to the dracofaust commentary, I would like to say 1. totally hypocritical attack over lurking. Care to explain why you were lurking so very very long? I haven't lurked in this game, I have posted incredibly regularly, except for weekends. Remember my first post of the game, my little introduction speech? Yeah, I told the town up front that I was going to have limited access on weekends.
You're not paying attention, Tacky. Draco also told us what was up with him. You're pointing fingers with little reasoning.
Quote from tacky »
Heh, I was right about Exlight. Good. I need to reread Day 1 to recall his interactions, but good job to the vig.
Reads like an attempt to gain townpoints rather than content. Reminding us how he called it earlier.
Quote from tacky »
Current suspects: Shalako. Why? He did a lot of flipping and flopping yesterday between two town players, Naka and Poggy, and probably more. He rode along with the attack on both these players, and if he is scum, he would know that it was two townies fighting amongst each other, which is a situation that scum would love to put themselves in.
Secondly, he has claimed tracker right? That would make 4 PR's for the town, which is totally unbelievable in a basic.
Now, I don't doubt that he's a Tracker. However, I believe he's just a scum tracker. Any time I've seen a tracker in a basic, they have been scum. A tracker is very useless to the town because it just lets you know if a player is doing something in the night. That doesn't mean that player is killing someone, just that they are taking an action. It's more commonly used as a scum role, mostly because it tells the scum who in the town is a power role. If the scum-tracker tracks a townie cop or doc, they can better plan their next night's actions and their actions during the day.
Can't remember our time together in Shrek mafia? I'm crushed. I was the tracker there, and even though you thought I was scum the whole game, I was definitely town. Bad at town, but town. Anyway, Shalako read town to me the whole time. Much more so than Naka or Poggy.
Quote from tacky »
Other suspects: iBug, Draco. People to keep your eyes on.
That is all.
So you go from thinking I'm obvtown and being happy to have me in the game to thinking I'm scum without posting any evidence for it at all? Please explain, sir.
I'd been thinking Tacky was town, but this post feels like a bit of a slip. IGMEOY.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Why would we want to vig to claim if they had more shots? So we can give up another power role? Even if they were a 1 shot I don't see why they should claim. Might as well make the scum worry about the vig shot tonight, right?
Feels like you're fishing so hard Tacky.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
You're not paying attention, Tacky. Draco also told us what was up with him. You're pointing fingers with little reasoning.
Sorry, like I said I still need a reread and haven't learned that Draco information until now. So yeah, I saw him pointing fingers for something he himself has done and I called him on it. Draco corrected me on it and the point is moot. This feels like you are trying to blow the issue into larger proportions.
Reads like an attempt to gain townpoints rather than content. Reminding us how he called it earlier.
I understand that would be a damning point against me if it weren't for the fact that I DID actually post content in this post. What I didn't do was step into the thread and gloat about how right I was and then leave. I did call it and am happy, and I left it at that. Now we need to see what we can learn from the Exlight death.
Can't remember our time together in Shrek mafia? I'm crushed. I was the tracker there, and even though you thought I was scum the whole game, I was definitely town. Bad at town, but town. Anyway, Shalako read town to me the whole time. Much more so than Naka or Poggy.
Eh, knew I was missing something. However, did Shrek have both a cop and a tracker? I can't remember, but I don't think so. In this game we have a confirmed cop and a claimed watcher, which indeed seems like much.
Also, care to explain why Shalako read town the entire time?
So you go from thinking I'm obvtown and being happy to have me in the game to thinking I'm scum without posting any evidence for it at all? Please explain, sir.
Your activity has been in question. You are also a fairly experienced, so it's just habit that I keep an eye on you and consider you a suspect. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to have you in this game, as it provides more experience and it means I can rely on you to play the game with less noobieness. However, that doesn't clear you. Happy to have you in the game, but you aren't cleared town. I think I said a LONG time ago that you seemed Obvtown, but your presence is fading. The reread that I'm planning will shed a bit more light.
Why would we want to vig to claim if they had more shots? So we can give up another power role? Even if they were a 1 shot I don't see why they should claim. Might as well make the scum worry about the vig shot tonight, right?
Feels like you're fishing so hard Tacky.
If they have more shots, the vig should claim not only to provide better coordination to the town, but also to add a cleared player to the list. This is the perfect claim with the RB dead too. If the player isn't counterclaimed, they are cleared town and we get to aim the shot much more easily than before. If the player is CCed, we just leave the situation alone and let the real vig among the two kill the liar, as that person is mos-def scum.
Having the vig claim has no downsides, and only would have a downside if the RB were still alive.
Call it fishing, but I feel that the vig claiming is incredibly advantageous to the town.
Besides, if I were just fishing I would claim to want the information and just leave it at that. I'm providing plenty of reasoning and information as to why the vig should claim, so not only do I feel like this is nothing like fishing, but I also feel like, because of the effort that I'm going through to explain how this is good for the town, it deserves serious consideration.
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Sorry, like I said I still need a reread and haven't learned that Draco information until now. So yeah, I saw him pointing fingers for something he himself has done and I called him on it. Draco corrected me on it and the point is moot. This feels like you are trying to blow the issue into larger proportions.
You may see the point as moot, I don't. If you just weren't paying close enough attention, that's fine I guess, but I expected you to be keeping better track of things for some reason. I'm not trying to blow something I see as minor into something larger, I'm trying to investigate something that concerns me.
Quote from tacky »
I understand that would be a damning point against me if it weren't for the fact that I DID actually post content in this post. What I didn't do was step into the thread and gloat about how right I was and then leave. I did call it and am happy, and I left it at that. Now we need to see what we can learn from the Exlight death.
I wasn't insinuating your post was devoid of content, just that line. Your fist pump there just seemed a little over the top, like "Called it! Look how town I am! Follow me!" Is it possibly from a town perspective? Sure. But it pinged my scumdar.
Quote from tacky »
Eh, knew I was missing something. However, did Shrek have both a cop and a tracker? I can't remember, but I don't think so. In this game we have a confirmed cop and a claimed watcher, which indeed seems like much.
Tracker, doc, 1shot, vs RB.
Quote from tacky »
Also, care to explain why Shalako read town the entire time?
My memory tracks scumtells better than towntells. Shalaktopus hasn't really pinged my scumdar, so I haven't worried about him much. Could he be scum? Sure. He could be pulling a huge WIFOM gambit to try to get out of the lynch today.
Quote from tacky »
Your activity has been in question. You are also a fairly experienced, so it's just habit that I keep an eye on you and consider you a suspect. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to have you in this game, as it provides more experience and it means I can rely on you to play the game with less noobieness. However, that doesn't clear you. Happy to have you in the game, but you aren't cleared town. I think I said a LONG time ago that you seemed Obvtown, but your presence is fading. The reread that I'm planning will shed a bit more light.
As I explained previously, my presence faded due to awkward working hours and not catching up on the excessive posts in the game. Did it look like lurking? Sure. But look at my posts: They have content. Pretty much all of them, I'd imagine.
I don't really post unless I have something to say. Does that mean I'll read the thread sometimes and not post? Sure. I don't always have something to say, and sometimes I'd rather keep my thoughts to myself instead of letting scum know what's going on in my head.
Quote from tacky »
A slip implies that I said something revealing when I didn't mean to. Where did I "slip" in this post?
It felt like a slip because it's the first post you've made that's pinged my scumdar. Which means the townfront you've been using slipped, or I just misread your intentions in the post. I haven't decided yet. So I have my eye on you.
Quote from tacky »
If they have more shots, the vig should claim not only to provide better coordination to the town, but also to add a cleared player to the list. This is the perfect claim with the RB dead too. If the player isn't counterclaimed, they are cleared town and we get to aim the shot much more easily than before. If the player is CCed, we just leave the situation alone and let the real vig among the two kill the liar, as that person is mos-def scum.
While having a CC would create an interesting situation that we could possibly benefit from, I still don't like the idea of the vig claiming because that means the scum can kill them. I've lost to singleton scum after 2 successful nights before, and I don't want it to happen again. If the vig has more shots, claiming guarantees they only get one more. We can still guide the vig without knowing who they are, or at least discuss enough that they can make an informed decision.
Quote from tacky »
Having the vig claim has no downsides, and only would have a downside if the RB were still alive.
As I've pointed out, this isn't really correct. Also, I don't like town that talk in absolutes like this. It doesn't look townie to me. Haven't you said before that town should never be 100% on anything? You're pretty black and white here.
Quote from tacky »
Call it fishing, but I feel that the vig claiming is incredibly advantageous to the town.
And I disagree.
Quote from tacky »
Besides, if I were just fishing I would claim to want the information and just leave it at that. I'm providing plenty of reasoning and information as to why the vig should claim, so not only do I feel like this is nothing like fishing, but I also feel like, because of the effort that I'm going through to explain how this is good for the town, it deserves serious consideration.
WIFOM. "Look, obviously I'm town because of all the effort I'm putting into this." You don't sound like you're looking for "serious consideration," you sound like you're looking for the claim. Consideration involves discussion. You've stated that there are no downsides. Not no downside that you can see, simply that there is no downside.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Next, I don't think the vig should claim if they're multi shot, and possibly not if they're single. If they're multi, we can get the same effect by telling them who we think they should get, and they can argue for whoever without having to give it away. If they aren't, then if they claim, we've got another confirmed town, but, besides a bit of a scare tonight, I don't know how it would benefit the town for the single-shot vig to not claim. Also, without a doc, a multi-shot vig will be a sure kill tonight if they claim. I'd rather have a slightly harder to direct vig that can last for a while than a vig that gets one shot that we have more control over.
And yes, TACKY, saying that you putting effort into your reasoning makes it not fishing is WIFOM. You're skilled, and if I were a scum, and a skilled one at that, I'd do exactly what you're doing, although preferably without the WIFOM.
You may see the point as moot, I don't. If you just weren't paying close enough attention, that's fine I guess, but I expected you to be keeping better track of things for some reason. I'm not trying to blow something I see as minor into something larger, I'm trying to investigate something that concerns me.
Understood. I guess I thought I was clearer that I hadn't read anything since the last time I posted, but I guess not. I saw you as jumping on me for an honest mistake, so I in turn jumped on you a bit. All in all though, it looks like a misunderstanding, but I understand exactly where you are coming from here.
I wasn't insinuating your post was devoid of content, just that line. Your fist pump there just seemed a little over the top, like "Called it! Look how town I am! Follow me!" Is it possibly from a town perspective? Sure. But it pinged my scumdar.
I can understand this too. I shouldn't have said it and figured it might draw flak, but I was happy to be right.
Thanks for your memory. This setup in Shrek has the Tracker as the only investigative role for the town, which is fair. However, a setup with both a cop AND a tracker/watcher plus the regular doc and vig variants is broken as all hell.
So yeah, I was wrong about all trackers/watchers usually being scum, but I'm still convinced that Shalako as a watcher is scum in this game due to his claim being broken if true.
My memory tracks scumtells better than towntells. Shalaktopus hasn't really pinged my scumdar, so I haven't worried about him much. Could he be scum? Sure. He could be pulling a huge WIFOM gambit to try to get out of the lynch today.
Makes sense. What do you say about Shalako barning Naka on Poggy and then switching sides quickly when I bring up Naka as a suspect? Shalako's barny behavior has me worried, especially when both players he pushed against pop up dead town. Didn't he CC Naka in the end, leading to her death? Yeah, I'm not seeing anything that makes me feel better about Shalako.
As I explained previously, my presence faded due to awkward working hours and not catching up on the excessive posts in the game. Did it look like lurking? Sure. But look at my posts: They have content. Pretty much all of them, I'd imagine.
I don't really post unless I have something to say. Does that mean I'll read the thread sometimes and not post? Sure. I don't always have something to say, and sometimes I'd rather keep my thoughts to myself instead of letting scum know what's going on in my head.
I can't argue that. You have been a consistant force in the town. I guess seeing you disappear caught my attention and made me wary. But I have also noticed content and scumhunting in most of, if not all of, your posts, so it kinda makes up for it. I guess after hearing you as the voice of reason for a while and suddenly having you somewhat disappear was a jolt to me.
It felt like a slip because it's the first post you've made that's pinged my scumdar. Which means the townfront you've been using slipped, or I just misread your intentions in the post. I haven't decided yet. So I have my eye on you.
While having a CC would create an interesting situation that we could possibly benefit from, I still don't like the idea of the vig claiming because that means the scum can kill them. I've lost to singleton scum after 2 successful nights before, and I don't want it to happen again. If the vig has more shots, claiming guarantees they only get one more. We can still guide the vig without knowing who they are, or at least discuss enough that they can make an informed decision.
I can relate to the singleton scum loss, happened when ced fooled everyone in Family Mafia. My thought process was that we can nail scum in a lynch today and nail scum with the vig shot, and I guess the claim is best to eliminate a suspect, gives us a better chance to hit with the lynch. Also, the danger of having a vig shoot all willy-nilly and hit a townie is a scary thought. I feel like knowing who the vig is out in the open helps to avoid mistakes like this better than blindly guiding the vig, but I might have gotten caught up in something that I thought was a game breaking idea when it wasn't. I need to think about the vig plan, since I think there's something to be had there, but I see your points. I'll drop it until I've got a more solid plan for it.
As I've pointed out, this isn't really correct. Also, I don't like town that talk in absolutes like this. It doesn't look townie to me. Haven't you said before that town should never be 100% on anything? You're pretty black and white here.
It's not that I felt it was 100%, I just didn't see a downside. Not that there wasn't a downside, I just hadn't seen one. That's also why I wanted people to take it into consideration, so that I might see something I didn't before, which I have now, thanks to you. Still, I never meant to say my plan was a shoo in, but I was just totally bought into it. Now I have thinking to do.
This post makes me happy. I think my whole problem with you was your disappearance. Just don't go AWOL again or I'll have to lynch you! For serious though, this post has reminded me why I had you as town in the first place.
WIFOM. "Look, obviously I'm town because of all the effort I'm putting into this." You don't sound like you're looking for "serious consideration," you sound like you're looking for the claim. Consideration involves discussion. You've stated that there are no downsides. Not no downside that you can see, simply that there is no downside.
Well, I wasn't expecting to skip all discussion and get right at the claim. I thought it was a good idea and wanted more people to think about it and hopefully carry it out. The claim is really just a part of an overall goal for the town, and like I said earlier, I'm not just screaming for the claim all wild-like. I should hope by now that you can see my reasoning, or at least where I was trying to come from on this issue.
I should hope by now that you can see my reasoning, or at least where I was trying to come from on this issue.
I can see your reasoning now, but I would have liked for your reasoning to have been more apparent then, so you wouldn't have had time to come up with something to back up statements you made. I gots to be careful and all that.
@TIK: As long as you wait for Reya before posting your theory, sounds good to me.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Wanted to point this out last post, but forgot. If we really did have a tracker and a cop, two investigative roles, wouldn't it make sense for the scum to get a role that evades being caught by investigation? Essentially, anyone of the "Lying" roles seems like a fair candidate if we are to believe we have such a loaded town thing. It could also be that Someone is a scum and wanted to make a situation where all town power roles would out themselves day one in a massive counter claim and vig/lynch scene while the scum all laughed maniacally in their evil lair.
On the vig claim, I wouldn't mind the vig claiming as I'm still not sure of the prescence and alignment of a vig. I know it seems pretty obvious but I've got my doubts. If it is a 1shot vig then I can't see any disadvantage to him claiming. If its multiple shot then he can still take someone out tonight, we know he will probably be aimed by scum so shalako can prove his worth by watching the vig.
Hey ive been sick for a little while sorry for not posting. Going through a quick skim i see say people say TACKY looks suspicous when this is just stupid. Alll of his reasons are valid and logically thought through so it seems.
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Exlight better hope I don't have to replace in. I don't want to make it 3 games in a row I off him night 1...
Is that a sneaky claim?
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By the way, please don't wait for me as my theory still needs a lot more rereading, but I will start off by saying I indeed am the vig, and I am a one-shot vig.
2nd off has to do with shalako: While no one counterclaiming RB does want me to say shalako is town, especially because exlight's priority is higher than mine (in other words, he still got to roleblock someone before dying). Shalako, your passive "Guess I am going to die" attitude is bothering me. If you are truly a town PR, and know that two PRs are already dead and I am exposed as the alledged "4th", why would you not come out and just say: I made a mistake, a bad flavor gambit that should not have come out and counterclaim, and get some teeth? A town player would not allow himself to get lynched, ESPECIALLY if he is a PR.
That being said, shalako is not the lynch today unless he really puts himself in a whole. Town like going 1 for 1 with scum, not the other way around.
3rd to whoever asked, there are three reasons I didn't out exlight on the spot:
#1: If he was not the Roleblocker, the odds were that at least one, if not, both scum buddies would be on his wagon to claim, and possibly jostling at him. When I decided to "stand up" for exlight, I was watching to see who would unvote when they knew a townie was pushing to leave exlight alone, signifying that they were scum that didn't have to bus. If he was the Roleblocker, that last sentance times 10.
#2: The vig shot is meant to be used as a second shot. Again, assuming exlight was not the RBer, I couldn't just tell everyone I was going to vig exlight, would have created a giant WIFOM of who is the real vig causing a probably 1 for 1. I had the opportunity to go 1 for 0, and get a second lynch that would be decided by the town. I decided to take the safe and correct lynch, and allow the town to decide who should be the second lynch, since I feel that was the one that would need the most guidance from others.
#3: Exlight is a fairly new player. I figured that by making him think that he had gotten away clean without a cc, he would be more likely to buddy up to his clan mates, and just be more cocky in general, making it likely that he could finger the others without thinking that he was in any danger of being lynched. This third reason is what most of reread will be on: Interactions before and after exlight's lynch.
So the question I ask you all to look at and reread is: What do we do with shalako? I vote leave him alone do to my belief that he truly thought two PRs investigation on the town side was too good, but I want to hear others.
And one more thing, I have a feeling if shalako is telling the truth, they either have a mafia tracker or cop, as there was no reason in hell to night kill poggy. He or shalako had the highest rate of being the lynch today.
*Steps of the Podium* Please discuss, I will be on later tonight after FNM.
Point out how this is pro-town and your reasoning behind it.
OR.
Die.
I wanted his comment on it to see what he ment by it.
BTW Even though your not counter claimed the rber could have roleblocked another scum member. this is common technique for scum correct?
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Well.
Town doesnt get two investagative roles. But Watcher is always a good claim for scum.
does any one else find that his claim of watcher and this post were very close together? He even said town dosen't get two investigative roles.
vote shalako
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[QUOTE]By the way, please don't wait for me as my theory still needs a lot more rereading, but I will start off by saying I indeed am the vig, and I am a one-shot vig.
...No Cc yet again.
2nd off has to do with shalako: While no one counterclaiming RB does want me to say shalako is town, especially because exlight's priority is higher than mine (in other words, he still got to roleblock someone before dying).
Shalako, your passive "Guess I am going to die" attitude is bothering me. If you are truly a town PR, and know that two PRs are already dead and I am exposed as the alledged "4th", why would you not come out and just say: I made a mistake, a bad flavor gambit that should not have come out and counterclaim, and get some teeth? A town player would not allow himself to get lynched, ESPECIALLY if he is a PR.
Do you not remember Day one?
I entered into a Gentlemen`s agreement with you that if Naka flipped Cop I would die.
I expected to get quick lynched, That didn`t happen and I`m still trying to figure out why.
The only thing that makes sense is that the Scum know I`m not one of them and if they pushed a wagon on me it would hurt them when I died.
3rd to whoever asked, there are three reasons I didn't out exlight on the spot:
Because you could shoot him in the face?
So the question I ask you all to look at and reread is: What do we do with shalako? I vote leave him alone do to my belief that he truly thought two PRs investigation on the town side was too good, but I want to hear others.
{Token Don`t Lynch Me Bro post.}
And one more thing, I have a feeling if shalako is telling the truth, they either have a mafia tracker or cop, as there was no reason in hell to night kill poggy. He or shalako had the highest rate of being the lynch today.
1. Cop makes no sense.
2. They could have a Jailer/backup/1shotvig/Poisoner
I vaguely remember Manders saying something about that . . . It does seem like a longshot, since they could just not Roleblock and then have on of them say they were. Although, it really doesn't matter how they handle it, but I don't think they do it too often. Roleblock is powerful, you want to put it to good use.
@TIK: Okay, so long as you're one-shot, I think you've done fine. I don't think we should lynch Shalako today. We've got, at this point, one power role, who is revealed, it seems. It seems likely he'd die tonight no matter what, and if he doesn't, I would seriously consider lynching him . . . Although crafty scum would try and bank on that fact, so maybe not . . .
New issue, under the assumption TIK is lying, should the real Vig claim or not? If you're one-shot, go ahead I say. If not, I'd probably remain hidden.
I stand by my suspision of shalako. I see people dont seem to be getting me. I have a question shalako who did you target and what did u get? Or is that not a question that supposed to be asked.
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He says he was roleblocked, so he got squat. But, I believe target is a fine question, although I think he may have already said that too . . . I'll go check.
Uhh maybe because than we would have 2 people to choose one of which one would be scum. Gives much better chance of catching scum.
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Uhh maybe because than we would have 2 people to choose one of which one would be scum. Gives much better chance of catching scum.
I guess so. But it also, theoretically, gives a higher chance of hitting town. I'd still like to hear what IB says, in case it was something else, but you're probably right Reya.
i dont know if i want to believe naka or shalako here.. even though naka is higher on my scumlist.
This is one of my reasons for doubting shalako is scum. Exlight could've easily just jumped on nakas lynch when shalak counterclaimed but he seems to have hesitated. But he was still the second person to jump on naka's lynch so this could be a null tell.
Also doubt that shalako would cc real cop unless he was sure that he could get away with a lynch next day.
We can wait one more day before lynching shalako to see his activity at night. The person getting watched does get told right?
Need to reread exlight's stuff.
But so far my new list:
Town
Quietfish
Tik-probably confirmed
Ibug
Scum
Heart-jumps on to nakas wagon after lurking.
Shalako/bebo
It seems likely he'd die tonight no matter what, and if he doesn't, I would seriously consider lynching him . . . Although crafty scum would try and bank on that fact, so maybe not . . .
I stand by my suspision of shalako. I see people dont seem to be getting me. I have a question shalako who did you target and what did u get? Or is that not a question that supposed to be asked.
I tried to target Poggy.
I have said why.
It`s fine to ask revealed Pr who they target most of the time(outside of docs)
@tik: why would they have a cop or tracker?
I thought night results were given at the end of night, so they couldn't have known that poggy was doc.
I actually don't know how that works, but it really does bother me that poggy was the NK when there were other PRs there were going after, I even hinted I was one when Naka was proposing his idea for a soft claim. So, it makes me think the scum had a reason to go after poggy, even knowing it was high likely he could be mislynched.
@Shalako, care to give a PBPA on bebo, or is there something you'd like to say about your vote?
*Looks at IB's sig*
I think he either wants to get a second scum or he just really wants to see me hang.
I actually don't know how that works, but it really does bother me that poggy was the NK when there were other PRs there were going after, I even hinted I was one when Naka was proposing his idea for a soft claim. So, it makes me think the scum had a reason to go after poggy, even knowing it was high likely he could be mislynched.
@Shalako, care to give a PBPA on bebo, or is there something you'd like to say about your vote?
Why would they go after poggy, more than a "pretty much" confirmed watcher. Thats one of the big reasons i think shalako is scum. 2 many thing just dont add up with him.
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Why would they go after poggy, more than a "pretty much" confirmed watcher. Thats one of the big reasons i think shalako is scum. 2 many thing just dont add up with him.
Not knowing who the doctor was is probably a good reason why. Unless a mafia cop or tracker would know their target before they could sumbit a kill...
Saying something that just doomed me to be the mislynch later.
Ah, I just saw what you were talking about.
@Bebo: Care to explain why you felt the need to tell the world that?
Btw, apologies again but my reread will have to wait till my thanksgiving day vacation. Freaking school man, more specifically, freaking education department bullcrap.
Why would they go after poggy, more than a "pretty much" confirmed watcher. Thats one of the big reasons i think shalako is scum. 2 many thing just dont add up with him.
It's too much Wifom. They could also have killed poggy knowing that theres a doctor around, and hoping that we'll lynch shalako tomorrow because those two seems like the ones likely to be hanged.
Contradictions. Get your story straight.
A tracker is useless to the town, and yet having a cop and a tracker would be imba. I don't understand how you can believe both of those statements. You seem to be twisting facts, possibly to lynch Shalako?
We should use the vigs second shot as a second lynch, but most basics only have a one-shot vig.
It strikes me that revealing poggy as town via scum death gave you some serious townie points, Tacky, since you defended him all game. Totally WIFOM, but interesting.
FoS Tacky
BTW, Shalako claimed watcher, not tracker.
First, how does that make me scum?
Second, nothing is a contradiction. A tracker is a weak role for the town, but it's still a power role. Having both a full cop and a tracker gives the town way too much information and can potentially break the game. Add in a Doc and a vig and that's 4 power roles when there is probably only 3 scum. Town PR's outnumbering scum is a good way of telling if something is unbalanced.
Also, the bolded vig part isn't a contradiction at all either. We don't know if the vig is one shot or not, so as for now I'm hoping for a full vig. Normally it is a limited vig, but I don't know that for sure. More reason for the vig to claim. What I'm saying normally there is a limited vig, but here we don't know that, so I'm preparing for if there are more shots. If there aren't more shots then it doesn't matter, but as a town we should hope for multiple shots.
Finally, watcher/tracker, it doesn't matter, they are essentially the same. Watch/Follow one player to see where they are going or what they are doing. Awesome for scum, so-so for town.
Evidence, please. You've barely posted any content at all this game, not a lot of posts and certainly not a lot said in them. Maybe you should do some scumhunting instead of posting random accusations without any kind of content to back them up?
And...
Wow, Tacky finally makes a scummy looking post. Interesting.
You're not paying attention, Tacky. Draco also told us what was up with him. You're pointing fingers with little reasoning.
Reads like an attempt to gain townpoints rather than content. Reminding us how he called it earlier.
Can't remember our time together in Shrek mafia? I'm crushed. I was the tracker there, and even though you thought I was scum the whole game, I was definitely town. Bad at town, but town. Anyway, Shalako read town to me the whole time. Much more so than Naka or Poggy.
So you go from thinking I'm obvtown and being happy to have me in the game to thinking I'm scum without posting any evidence for it at all? Please explain, sir.
I'd been thinking Tacky was town, but this post feels like a bit of a slip. IGMEOY.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Feels like you're fishing so hard Tacky.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Sorry, like I said I still need a reread and haven't learned that Draco information until now. So yeah, I saw him pointing fingers for something he himself has done and I called him on it. Draco corrected me on it and the point is moot. This feels like you are trying to blow the issue into larger proportions.
I understand that would be a damning point against me if it weren't for the fact that I DID actually post content in this post. What I didn't do was step into the thread and gloat about how right I was and then leave. I did call it and am happy, and I left it at that. Now we need to see what we can learn from the Exlight death.
Eh, knew I was missing something. However, did Shrek have both a cop and a tracker? I can't remember, but I don't think so. In this game we have a confirmed cop and a claimed watcher, which indeed seems like much.
Also, care to explain why Shalako read town the entire time?
Your activity has been in question. You are also a fairly experienced, so it's just habit that I keep an eye on you and consider you a suspect. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to have you in this game, as it provides more experience and it means I can rely on you to play the game with less noobieness. However, that doesn't clear you. Happy to have you in the game, but you aren't cleared town. I think I said a LONG time ago that you seemed Obvtown, but your presence is fading. The reread that I'm planning will shed a bit more light.
A slip implies that I said something revealing when I didn't mean to. Where did I "slip" in this post?
If they have more shots, the vig should claim not only to provide better coordination to the town, but also to add a cleared player to the list. This is the perfect claim with the RB dead too. If the player isn't counterclaimed, they are cleared town and we get to aim the shot much more easily than before. If the player is CCed, we just leave the situation alone and let the real vig among the two kill the liar, as that person is mos-def scum.
Having the vig claim has no downsides, and only would have a downside if the RB were still alive.
Call it fishing, but I feel that the vig claiming is incredibly advantageous to the town.
Besides, if I were just fishing I would claim to want the information and just leave it at that. I'm providing plenty of reasoning and information as to why the vig should claim, so not only do I feel like this is nothing like fishing, but I also feel like, because of the effort that I'm going through to explain how this is good for the town, it deserves serious consideration.
I wasn't insinuating your post was devoid of content, just that line. Your fist pump there just seemed a little over the top, like "Called it! Look how town I am! Follow me!" Is it possibly from a town perspective? Sure. But it pinged my scumdar.
Tracker, doc, 1shot, vs RB.
My memory tracks scumtells better than towntells. Shalaktopus hasn't really pinged my scumdar, so I haven't worried about him much. Could he be scum? Sure. He could be pulling a huge WIFOM gambit to try to get out of the lynch today.
As I explained previously, my presence faded due to awkward working hours and not catching up on the excessive posts in the game. Did it look like lurking? Sure. But look at my posts: They have content. Pretty much all of them, I'd imagine.
I don't really post unless I have something to say. Does that mean I'll read the thread sometimes and not post? Sure. I don't always have something to say, and sometimes I'd rather keep my thoughts to myself instead of letting scum know what's going on in my head.
It felt like a slip because it's the first post you've made that's pinged my scumdar. Which means the townfront you've been using slipped, or I just misread your intentions in the post. I haven't decided yet. So I have my eye on you.
While having a CC would create an interesting situation that we could possibly benefit from, I still don't like the idea of the vig claiming because that means the scum can kill them. I've lost to singleton scum after 2 successful nights before, and I don't want it to happen again. If the vig has more shots, claiming guarantees they only get one more. We can still guide the vig without knowing who they are, or at least discuss enough that they can make an informed decision.
As I've pointed out, this isn't really correct. Also, I don't like town that talk in absolutes like this. It doesn't look townie to me. Haven't you said before that town should never be 100% on anything? You're pretty black and white here.
And I disagree.
WIFOM. "Look, obviously I'm town because of all the effort I'm putting into this." You don't sound like you're looking for "serious consideration," you sound like you're looking for the claim. Consideration involves discussion. You've stated that there are no downsides. Not no downside that you can see, simply that there is no downside.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I was not roleblocked last night.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Next, I don't think the vig should claim if they're multi shot, and possibly not if they're single. If they're multi, we can get the same effect by telling them who we think they should get, and they can argue for whoever without having to give it away. If they aren't, then if they claim, we've got another confirmed town, but, besides a bit of a scare tonight, I don't know how it would benefit the town for the single-shot vig to not claim. Also, without a doc, a multi-shot vig will be a sure kill tonight if they claim. I'd rather have a slightly harder to direct vig that can last for a while than a vig that gets one shot that we have more control over.
And yes, TACKY, saying that you putting effort into your reasoning makes it not fishing is WIFOM. You're skilled, and if I were a scum, and a skilled one at that, I'd do exactly what you're doing, although preferably without the WIFOM.
Understood. I guess I thought I was clearer that I hadn't read anything since the last time I posted, but I guess not. I saw you as jumping on me for an honest mistake, so I in turn jumped on you a bit. All in all though, it looks like a misunderstanding, but I understand exactly where you are coming from here.
I can understand this too. I shouldn't have said it and figured it might draw flak, but I was happy to be right.
Thanks for your memory. This setup in Shrek has the Tracker as the only investigative role for the town, which is fair. However, a setup with both a cop AND a tracker/watcher plus the regular doc and vig variants is broken as all hell.
So yeah, I was wrong about all trackers/watchers usually being scum, but I'm still convinced that Shalako as a watcher is scum in this game due to his claim being broken if true.
Makes sense. What do you say about Shalako barning Naka on Poggy and then switching sides quickly when I bring up Naka as a suspect? Shalako's barny behavior has me worried, especially when both players he pushed against pop up dead town. Didn't he CC Naka in the end, leading to her death? Yeah, I'm not seeing anything that makes me feel better about Shalako.
I can't argue that. You have been a consistant force in the town. I guess seeing you disappear caught my attention and made me wary. But I have also noticed content and scumhunting in most of, if not all of, your posts, so it kinda makes up for it. I guess after hearing you as the voice of reason for a while and suddenly having you somewhat disappear was a jolt to me.
Understood.
I can relate to the singleton scum loss, happened when ced fooled everyone in Family Mafia. My thought process was that we can nail scum in a lynch today and nail scum with the vig shot, and I guess the claim is best to eliminate a suspect, gives us a better chance to hit with the lynch. Also, the danger of having a vig shoot all willy-nilly and hit a townie is a scary thought. I feel like knowing who the vig is out in the open helps to avoid mistakes like this better than blindly guiding the vig, but I might have gotten caught up in something that I thought was a game breaking idea when it wasn't. I need to think about the vig plan, since I think there's something to be had there, but I see your points. I'll drop it until I've got a more solid plan for it.
It's not that I felt it was 100%, I just didn't see a downside. Not that there wasn't a downside, I just hadn't seen one. That's also why I wanted people to take it into consideration, so that I might see something I didn't before, which I have now, thanks to you. Still, I never meant to say my plan was a shoo in, but I was just totally bought into it. Now I have thinking to do.
Agree to disagree?
This post makes me happy. I think my whole problem with you was your disappearance. Just don't go AWOL again or I'll have to lynch you! For serious though, this post has reminded me why I had you as town in the first place.
Well, I wasn't expecting to skip all discussion and get right at the claim. I thought it was a good idea and wanted more people to think about it and hopefully carry it out. The claim is really just a part of an overall goal for the town, and like I said earlier, I'm not just screaming for the claim all wild-like. I should hope by now that you can see my reasoning, or at least where I was trying to come from on this issue.
I've got nothing.
I meant to say more, but I'm getting kicked off, so more later.
I'll get started on my theory then. May take a couple days with all my school deadlines though.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I can see your reasoning now, but I would have liked for your reasoning to have been more apparent then, so you wouldn't have had time to come up with something to back up statements you made. I gots to be careful and all that.
@TIK: As long as you wait for Reya before posting your theory, sounds good to me.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Hard night.
Anyone got anything for me to respond to?
or are we all just waiting for TICK
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Is that a sneaky claim?
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Did you have anything happen to you last night?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Nope. I didn't get roleblocked or anything.
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Point out how this is pro-town and your reasoning behind it.
OR.
Die.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
By the way, please don't wait for me as my theory still needs a lot more rereading, but I will start off by saying I indeed am the vig, and I am a one-shot vig.
2nd off has to do with shalako: While no one counterclaiming RB does want me to say shalako is town, especially because exlight's priority is higher than mine (in other words, he still got to roleblock someone before dying). Shalako, your passive "Guess I am going to die" attitude is bothering me. If you are truly a town PR, and know that two PRs are already dead and I am exposed as the alledged "4th", why would you not come out and just say: I made a mistake, a bad flavor gambit that should not have come out and counterclaim, and get some teeth? A town player would not allow himself to get lynched, ESPECIALLY if he is a PR.
That being said, shalako is not the lynch today unless he really puts himself in a whole. Town like going 1 for 1 with scum, not the other way around.
3rd to whoever asked, there are three reasons I didn't out exlight on the spot:
#1: If he was not the Roleblocker, the odds were that at least one, if not, both scum buddies would be on his wagon to claim, and possibly jostling at him. When I decided to "stand up" for exlight, I was watching to see who would unvote when they knew a townie was pushing to leave exlight alone, signifying that they were scum that didn't have to bus. If he was the Roleblocker, that last sentance times 10.
#2: The vig shot is meant to be used as a second shot. Again, assuming exlight was not the RBer, I couldn't just tell everyone I was going to vig exlight, would have created a giant WIFOM of who is the real vig causing a probably 1 for 1. I had the opportunity to go 1 for 0, and get a second lynch that would be decided by the town. I decided to take the safe and correct lynch, and allow the town to decide who should be the second lynch, since I feel that was the one that would need the most guidance from others.
#3: Exlight is a fairly new player. I figured that by making him think that he had gotten away clean without a cc, he would be more likely to buddy up to his clan mates, and just be more cocky in general, making it likely that he could finger the others without thinking that he was in any danger of being lynched. This third reason is what most of reread will be on: Interactions before and after exlight's lynch.
So the question I ask you all to look at and reread is: What do we do with shalako? I vote leave him alone do to my belief that he truly thought two PRs investigation on the town side was too good, but I want to hear others.
And one more thing, I have a feeling if shalako is telling the truth, they either have a mafia tracker or cop, as there was no reason in hell to night kill poggy. He or shalako had the highest rate of being the lynch today.
*Steps of the Podium* Please discuss, I will be on later tonight after FNM.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I wanted his comment on it to see what he ment by it.
BTW Even though your not counter claimed the rber could have roleblocked another scum member. this is common technique for scum correct?
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does any one else find that his claim of watcher and this post were very close together? He even said town dosen't get two investigative roles.
vote shalako
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...No Cc yet again.
Do you not remember Day one?
I entered into a Gentlemen`s agreement with you that if Naka flipped Cop I would die.
I expected to get quick lynched, That didn`t happen and I`m still trying to figure out why.
The only thing that makes sense is that the Scum know I`m not one of them and if they pushed a wagon on me it would hurt them when I died.
Because you could shoot him in the face?
{Token Don`t Lynch Me Bro post.}
1. Cop makes no sense.
2. They could have a Jailer/backup/1shotvig/Poisoner
Why would you ask him in this game?
Discussing ongoing games is bad BTW for this reason.
I Think it has happened once.
It was a game with MandersHex(@bebo/TIK) The one she talked about in magic mafia.
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@TIK: Okay, so long as you're one-shot, I think you've done fine. I don't think we should lynch Shalako today. We've got, at this point, one power role, who is revealed, it seems. It seems likely he'd die tonight no matter what, and if he doesn't, I would seriously consider lynching him . . . Although crafty scum would try and bank on that fact, so maybe not . . .
New issue, under the assumption TIK is lying, should the real Vig claim or not? If you're one-shot, go ahead I say. If not, I'd probably remain hidden.
TIK is basically confirmed town unless we get a CC, and I really hope we get a CC.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
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Uhh maybe because than we would have 2 people to choose one of which one would be scum. Gives much better chance of catching scum.
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I guess so. But it also, theoretically, gives a higher chance of hitting town. I'd still like to hear what IB says, in case it was something else, but you're probably right Reya.
But I really hope someone does.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Well, that's a bit odd, but, you have come across as town to me, so I'll trust you for now.
I thought night results were given at the end of night, so they couldn't have known that poggy was doc.
This is one of my reasons for doubting shalako is scum. Exlight could've easily just jumped on nakas lynch when shalak counterclaimed but he seems to have hesitated. But he was still the second person to jump on naka's lynch so this could be a null tell.
Also doubt that shalako would cc real cop unless he was sure that he could get away with a lynch next day.
We can wait one more day before lynching shalako to see his activity at night. The person getting watched does get told right?
Need to reread exlight's stuff.
But so far my new list:
Town
Quietfish
Tik-probably confirmed
Ibug
Scum
Heart-jumps on to nakas wagon after lurking.
Shalako/bebo
I was talking about Magic Mafia.
That was awesome.
And yes when I posted that I had`nt read a basic with more then 3 town power roles.
I.
Hate.
You.
:mad::mad::mad:
I tried to target Poggy.
I have said why.
It`s fine to ask revealed Pr who they target most of the time(outside of docs)
The Only Link is You!:o
oh.
wait.
No.
I`m a Ninja in the Night.
But I`m not gonna get rolebocked tonight.
And I`m not gonna say whom I`m target tonight(It`s NOT gonna be TIK)
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
But why?
Obviously.
Vote 22bebo
And me and TIK:p
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
*Looks at IB's sig*
I think he either wants to get a second scum or he just really wants to see me hang.
I actually don't know how that works, but it really does bother me that poggy was the NK when there were other PRs there were going after, I even hinted I was one when Naka was proposing his idea for a soft claim. So, it makes me think the scum had a reason to go after poggy, even knowing it was high likely he could be mislynched.
@Shalako, care to give a PBPA on bebo, or is there something you'd like to say about your vote?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why would they go after poggy, more than a "pretty much" confirmed watcher. Thats one of the big reasons i think shalako is scum. 2 many thing just dont add up with him.
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Not knowing who the doctor was is probably a good reason why. Unless a mafia cop or tracker would know their target before they could sumbit a kill...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Fence sitting.
Lurking in plain sight.
Saying something that just doomed me to be the mislynch later.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Ah, I just saw what you were talking about.
@Bebo: Care to explain why you felt the need to tell the world that?
Btw, apologies again but my reread will have to wait till my thanksgiving day vacation. Freaking school man, more specifically, freaking education department bullcrap.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It's too much Wifom. They could also have killed poggy knowing that theres a doctor around, and hoping that we'll lynch shalako tomorrow because those two seems like the ones likely to be hanged.
Found one post that makes it likelier that scum don't get investigation results before NKs.
This is important, but I'm not yet sure if it means shalako is scum, or heartwork is.