Kpaca did not say everyone would be Blacklisted for PM Quoting. I'm certain that the situation and context plays into how PM Quoting could be a Blacklisted offense.
Seasons was Zinda
Animainiacs was Pinky
Republican Primaries was Proph
STVM was myself and Manders
Avatar was Seppel
Ghost Story was R_O
Cant speak for others but I was in Cyberpunk and then hosted is first game after it and between the two I never really saw a reason for his probation in the first place. Yes the PM quoting was wrong but as a first offense not sure if probation was the right call. As for the OOG stuff, it wasnt against the rules at the time. Was some of it in bad taste, sure. But what he did was not against the rules and therefor not punishable.
For the record he was in Ghost Story Mafia & Gotham Underground Mafia, and he replaced (Bolly) in both. I do not recall having any complaints with his performance in either game.
For the further record, I do not believe that he is going about this in the best manner, and that if he is going to be taken off of the list it should be on the Council's time-frame and not his.
No offense dude, I hope you do not take it personally.
Artifice, you have stated that the only thing you did wrong is role PM quoting. Yet you were put on probation for more than that.
You argue that you should be removed from probation because you understand what you have done wrong and have ceased doing so. However, you only ceased doing so because you were on probation, which is supported by your own words at the end of Legend of Aang Mafia.
There is no reason to believe that you won't simply start back up again once removed from probation, especially when any contrary opinions are dismissed as being a kangaroo court.
The only other player I know on the probation list requested it himself because he realized that his actions were wrong. He's the only person who I'd argue has reason to ask for his own removal. Then I look at you. Yet you fought against it every step of the way, and now are pushing for it to be removed at the earliest possible opportunity, while completely ignoring part of the reason that you were put on probation.
There is no reason that the rules should have to be changed to curb one person's lust for victory, and the fact that it's actually necessary to stop you is ridiculous beyond all words.
First off, regarding stickies. The player contact list could probably use the text "New Players sign up here" added. If that means the replacement request list needs to just be folded invisibly inside it, so be it, but we could use a clear red flag for newcomers to the sub.
The welcome thread is doing its job, but "sign up here" text is an excellent way to nudge more people into taking the plunge.
Mafia Theory and Discussion could probably be merged with the "welcome" thread - the theory thread is intended to be the springboard for article discussion anyways, and the opening posts of the welcome thread would be a natural fit for the start of the theory thread.
Unsure as regards a mafia secretary at this point. Iso, feel free to shoot us a line on that if you think it'd be helpful. And thanks for all the archival work!
I would like to start the formal process of being taken off of the probation list. I have completed multiple games with no problems since my status change and would like to request that my name be removed from the hall of shame due to my behavior demonstrating that that game and the choices therein were a freak occurance.
Thank you in advance.
The number of completed games without further incident is encouraging. However, I'd also like to see a good, long temporal separation between the prior incidents as well. Say, 3-7 more months of smooth sailing while playing in active games. I think we're all appreciative that you seem to be on the mend, but I don't want to move precipitously. That's my first-take view on the subject without input from council-mates. I apologize for not chiming in sooner; I've actually been enjoying my honeymoon all this week and dealing with CI issues before that.
I also have absolutely no problem with Artifice requesting removal from the probation list/clarification on when that may occur. That mechanism was put in place by the council intentionally, and we do intend for it to be a real option available to those players to encourage the kind of improvement we've begun seeing from Artifice.
EDIT: While I've been away, there's been some discussion in the council-cave related to your proposal, Artifice. Thought you'd like to know.
As I said before, an additional Secretary at this point would be excessive. I will merge the two threads tonight. Glad to hear all is well in Azland and congrats on the honeymoon!
Edit: Actually, I do think the League color looks a bit much like the Normal color.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
While I experienced Artifice's willingness to use PM-grammar structure explicitly to try to kill me in Chosen Mafia, I nonetheless experienced no such problems whatsoever in Vampire Mafia.
I have no problem seeing him removed from the probation list.
Art should've been punished much more severely for what were, frankly, two deliberate breaches of the spirit (and rules) of Mafia, either one of which would have been nearly unforgiveable on its own. The probation list does basically nothing as it is. Taking him off it after he puts on a show of good behavior for a few weeks will mean it does less than nothing.
Art should've been punished much more severely for what were, frankly, two deliberate breaches of the spirit (and rules) of Mafia, either one of which would have been nearly unforgiveable on its own. The probation list does basically nothing as it is. Taking him off it after he puts on a show of good behavior for a few weeks will mean it does less than nothing.
You can't punish people for breaking rules that aren't rules. That was a fairly large crux of the argument the first time around.
And saying he's only been on good behavior for a few weeks is just slanderous.
No user that has I've talked to that has modded a game Art has been in since he was put on probation seems to have reservations about removing him from the probation list. That said, I would take that as proof that he's on the right track, and would desire a couple more months of this continued improvement before being willing to remove him from the probation list. (At least half a year of marked improvement)
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I find the list utterly useless hell I didn't know I was on it until like a month ago.
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Hello. I'm stopping in here from the Hosting Signup Thread. Iso suggested I ask here if I can open a thread with a poll to see if there is enough interest in playing a 30 player mafia game before having my set up checked. I know that 30 players is a lot. That's why I'm asking that this be a Player's Choice Game. If I can get 35+ of the sites 70+ active players interested in playing the game within 7 days, I would like permission to have someone check it over and begin the game as soon as is reasonable.
I think that the size of the game would require a bit of a rejig of the system: we don't have the demand for a normal PCQ, let alone a 30-player one. Perhaps when some games have ended, we don't start new ones and run a PCQ instead?
I have to recommend that you not run a spectator forum for this game as, with 30 players, you'll likely need as many available replacements as possible.
Hello. I'm stopping in here from the Hosting Signup Thread. Iso suggested I ask here if I can open a thread with a poll to see if there is enough interest in playing a 30 player mafia game before having my set up checked. I know that 30 players is a lot. That's why I'm asking that this be a Player's Choice Game. If I can get 35+ of the sites 70+ active players interested in playing the game within 7 days, I would like permission to have someone check it over and begin the game as soon as is reasonable.
Just a piece of friendly advice: Games that have a first digit in the number of players of 2 or more have a history of needing replacements and modkills due to inactivity. I would recommend to anyone designing a game to keep it under 20 players. That's not to say that we won't allow games to be larger, we will, but experience has taught me that even though there may be vocal interest in something, that doesn't really map onto the reality of the situation well.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Some of the larger specs and pcq had a redo culprits amount of replacements which seems to be the biggest problem to me. Not to mention that Scum can easily become overpowered when they get that big. Still sounds fun to have so many players in one game.
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Setup sent to Kraj for review. I think if this ever gets off the ground, that I'll make some kind of test for getting into it. Perhaps only players with more than 10 games under their belt or something. I kind of want this to be a game for true mafia fanatics, not someone who will implode under pressure on day 1.
That's going to get hard to get 30 players with 10+ games.
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When Reya says 'hard' she is trying to politely tell you that it is not going to happen. There are not actually 30 active players on this site with 10 games experience. And those of us that have that experience wouldn't sign up for a game from someone that has zero history on this site anyway.
When Reya says 'hard' sheis trying to politely tell you that it is not going to happen. There are not actually 30 active players on this site with 10 games experience. And those of us that have that experience wouldn't sign up for a game from someone that has zero history on this site anyway.
This. I would suggest doing a smaller game maybe a mini to show players that you can handle the balance issues of a game.
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Stop doubting yourself, you are a fine mentor. Do it now.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
[Read: I'm not ready to play a game right now, but I want to contribute and was wondering if I'm still too "green" to mentor.]
I agree with DRey, you'll be just fine. It's mostly just answering any questions they have, which is mostly basic mafia knowledge and the assorted acronyms.
No user that has I've talked to that has modded a game Art has been in since he was put on probation seems to have reservations about removing him from the probation list. That said, I would take that as proof that he's on the right track, and would desire a couple more months of this continued improvement before being willing to remove him from the probation list. (At least half a year of marked improvement)
This will be difficult, given that I won't be playing. Hence why I wanted to be removed. Don't want to have to readdress this again come 2013, which is the earliest I'll be joining another game.
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My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
You seem to be dead-set on this despite the advice of many experienced players. I have to also recommend that you think it over. 7 years is like 70 years in internet time and a lot has changed in this subform's meta.
Trust me, you would be utterly miserable as the host of a 30-player game. It would take maybe six weeks to fill - if lucky - and at least 1/3 of those would be players already in 2-3 games who would rapidly flake out and require replacements. By the end of D1 (if it ever ended - games take long enough with 20-22 players, imagine a 30-player D1 where everyone wants to have their say and it takes 16 (!) players to lynch) you'd feel like breaking down in tears.
Didn't you make a comeback as Shadow Knight sometime around 2009-2010? And you still think a 2005-era game is a good idea? Please reconsider.
You seem to be dead-set on this despite the advice of many experienced players. I have to also recommend that you think it over. 7 years is like 70 years in internet time and a lot has changed in this subform's meta.
Trust me, you would be utterly miserable as the host of a 30-player game. It would take maybe six weeks to fill - if lucky - and at least 1/3 of those would be players already in 2-3 games who would rapidly flake out and require replacements. By the end of D1 (if it ever ended - games take long enough with 20-22 players, imagine a 30-player D1 where everyone wants to have their say and it takes 16 (!) players to lynch) you'd feel like breaking down in tears.
Didn't you make a comeback as Shadow Knight sometime around 2009-2010? And you still think a 2005-era game is a good idea? Please reconsider.
I think it's fine to let this go for a while. He's heard from several people that a 30-player game is going to be rough. Kraj has stepped up to review it for him; he can provide more concrete feedback, hopefully involving ways to cut it down to a more reasonable size. If Dork Knight gets it into reasonable shape and it's still large, but Kraj vouches for it, that'll make it easier to attract players. Either way, give him some time to get it reviewed and think about it.
His lack of tact is still grating even if it does become a reality. Especially since he disappeared one day after a relatively short time as Shadow Knight.
Already made some changes thanks to Kraj, so everyone can relax. And yes, I was also Shadow Knight and disappearing was not a voluntary choice. I'll leave it at that and thank you for not judging me for it.
As far as change goes... Marriage, Divorce, Foreclosure, and Bankruptcy all have left their mark on me, so call it direct, call it tactless, call it grating, its who I am now.
So, I attempted to tackle merging the Welcome! and hosting threads and realized it's a rather daunting procedure - I'd have to re-hyperlink all of the articles. Would anyone object to me just merging everything into arim's first post in the hosting thread with spoilers?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wouldn't work. The Welcome! thread posts would disappear into the middle of the theory thread - I believe mergers work with timestamps on posts. So if one person makes a post on 2/23/07 and another thread's first post is 1/12/07 and then the next post on the second thread occurs on 3/29/07 but there are a bunch of posts in the first thread since then, the post on 3/29/07 would get lost in the first thread among all of the posts up to that point.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What if I clean up all of the old hosting thread posts and delete the new ones like I'm doing with Player Contact? That way I would definitely know whether or not I was caught up on the list, and wouldn't delete a post unless that person's status on the list was updated.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
For the record he was in Ghost Story Mafia & Gotham Underground Mafia, and he replaced (Bolly) in both. I do not recall having any complaints with his performance in either game.
For the further record, I do not believe that he is going about this in the best manner, and that if he is going to be taken off of the list it should be on the Council's time-frame and not his.
No offense dude, I hope you do not take it personally.
smoke_Killah
You argue that you should be removed from probation because you understand what you have done wrong and have ceased doing so. However, you only ceased doing so because you were on probation, which is supported by your own words at the end of Legend of Aang Mafia.
There is no reason to believe that you won't simply start back up again once removed from probation, especially when any contrary opinions are dismissed as being a kangaroo court.
The only other player I know on the probation list requested it himself because he realized that his actions were wrong. He's the only person who I'd argue has reason to ask for his own removal. Then I look at you. Yet you fought against it every step of the way, and now are pushing for it to be removed at the earliest possible opportunity, while completely ignoring part of the reason that you were put on probation.
There is no reason that the rules should have to be changed to curb one person's lust for victory, and the fact that it's actually necessary to stop you is ridiculous beyond all words.
I PM quoted and I'm still here, but it was also my first game and I was ignorant.
The way in which artifice quoted his role pm he should have been put on instant probation with a review for banning
scumbag
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The welcome thread is doing its job, but "sign up here" text is an excellent way to nudge more people into taking the plunge.
Mafia Theory and Discussion could probably be merged with the "welcome" thread - the theory thread is intended to be the springboard for article discussion anyways, and the opening posts of the welcome thread would be a natural fit for the start of the theory thread.
Unsure as regards a mafia secretary at this point. Iso, feel free to shoot us a line on that if you think it'd be helpful. And thanks for all the archival work!
The number of completed games without further incident is encouraging. However, I'd also like to see a good, long temporal separation between the prior incidents as well. Say, 3-7 more months of smooth sailing while playing in active games. I think we're all appreciative that you seem to be on the mend, but I don't want to move precipitously. That's my first-take view on the subject without input from council-mates. I apologize for not chiming in sooner; I've actually been enjoying my honeymoon all this week and dealing with CI issues before that.
I also have absolutely no problem with Artifice requesting removal from the probation list/clarification on when that may occur. That mechanism was put in place by the council intentionally, and we do intend for it to be a real option available to those players to encourage the kind of improvement we've begun seeing from Artifice.
EDIT: While I've been away, there's been some discussion in the council-cave related to your proposal, Artifice. Thought you'd like to know.
I will merge the two threads tonight. Glad to hear all is well in Azland and congrats on the honeymoon!Edit: Actually, I do think the League color looks a bit much like the Normal color.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How could either of you forget Vampire Mafia with Wuffles
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
agree with Iso bout league color
Fox wasnt counting Vampire or GUM as they are ongoing
The Family
Also agreed on the League color being similar to my eyes anyway.
And didn't realize that the entire games need to be completed.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=438403
The Family
I applaud your tenaciousness though.
The Family
While I experienced Artifice's willingness to use PM-grammar structure explicitly to try to kill me in Chosen Mafia, I nonetheless experienced no such problems whatsoever in Vampire Mafia.
I have no problem seeing him removed from the probation list.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
You can't punish people for breaking rules that aren't rules. That was a fairly large crux of the argument the first time around.
And saying he's only been on good behavior for a few weeks is just slanderous.
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Just a piece of friendly advice: Games that have a first digit in the number of players of 2 or more have a history of needing replacements and modkills due to inactivity. I would recommend to anyone designing a game to keep it under 20 players. That's not to say that we won't allow games to be larger, we will, but experience has taught me that even though there may be vocal interest in something, that doesn't really map onto the reality of the situation well.
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wwab is the best mafia player ever
Want to trade with me?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
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wwab is the best mafia player ever
Want to trade with me?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
This. I would suggest doing a smaller game maybe a mini to show players that you can handle the balance issues of a game.
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wwab is the best mafia player ever
Want to trade with me?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
Go read High School Mafia (2005)
[Read: I'm not ready to play a game right now, but I want to contribute and was wondering if I'm still too "green" to mentor.]
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I agree with DRey, you'll be just fine. It's mostly just answering any questions they have, which is mostly basic mafia knowledge and the assorted acronyms.
This will be difficult, given that I won't be playing. Hence why I wanted to be removed. Don't want to have to readdress this again come 2013, which is the earliest I'll be joining another game.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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You seem to be dead-set on this despite the advice of many experienced players. I have to also recommend that you think it over. 7 years is like 70 years in internet time and a lot has changed in this subform's meta.
Trust me, you would be utterly miserable as the host of a 30-player game. It would take maybe six weeks to fill - if lucky - and at least 1/3 of those would be players already in 2-3 games who would rapidly flake out and require replacements. By the end of D1 (if it ever ended - games take long enough with 20-22 players, imagine a 30-player D1 where everyone wants to have their say and it takes 16 (!) players to lynch) you'd feel like breaking down in tears.
Didn't you make a comeback as Shadow Knight sometime around 2009-2010? And you still think a 2005-era game is a good idea? Please reconsider.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I think it's fine to let this go for a while. He's heard from several people that a 30-player game is going to be rough. Kraj has stepped up to review it for him; he can provide more concrete feedback, hopefully involving ways to cut it down to a more reasonable size. If Dork Knight gets it into reasonable shape and it's still large, but Kraj vouches for it, that'll make it easier to attract players. Either way, give him some time to get it reviewed and think about it.
As far as change goes... Marriage, Divorce, Foreclosure, and Bankruptcy all have left their mark on me, so call it direct, call it tactless, call it grating, its who I am now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Merging, as I'm sure he's been told, is irreversible, so you definitely don't want to mess around with it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The Family
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Send me what you have, and I will. Or do you still have what little I sent you?
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