I don't quite understand what's lacking from my explanation. The target presumably gets a stronger effect from his ability. Would you have liked for me to provide a list of all the abilities of the game and how my ability would empower them?
Not explicitly but something more to that end of the spectrum than what you provided for sure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
You didn't target me last night based on my play today? Since that's obviously false, maybe you could elaborate on what made Wessel so townie and what made me no Not in your estimation.
If you've thought I'm such a strong suspect, why haven't you brought it up? It's been a long Day.
Who else is on your scum list at this point?
#1739 is where I explain why Wessel and DM are both likely town, based on Asian's scumlists. Based solely on behavior, both you and Wessel are self-aware and guarded enough in your play styles to make determining alignment that way unreliable at best.
Not explicitly but something more to that end of the spectrum than what you provided for sure.
I'm not quite understanding what you expected. Would you have liked for me to know how my ability would affect generic abilities such as cops/docs/vigs?
I'm not quite understanding what you expected. Would you have liked for me to know how my ability would affect generic abilities such as cops/docs/vigs?
I would expect you to give a better description of what "empower" does exactly. Does it provide a double shot? And extra charge? The ability to move seasons? What the heck does it do? If that means figuring out how to apply it to cops/docs/vigs specifically so be it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
I'm not quite understanding what you expected. Would you have liked for me to know how my ability would affect generic abilities such as cops/docs/vigs?
It seems you've dodged the question of "WHY WESSEL?"
So tell us. Why target Wessel, of all people, with your ability?
I would expect you to give a better description of what "empower" does exactly. Does it provide a double shot? And extra charge? The ability to move seasons? What the heck does it do? If that means figuring out how to apply it to cops/docs/vigs specifically so be it.
I do not know whether it provides a "double shot" or an "extra charge." As you can probably imagine, I'm not given any specifics as to what "empower" does exactly. In that sense, I cannot provide a better description because I am just as in the dark as everyone else.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I do not know whether it provides a "double shot" or an "extra charge." As you can probably imagine, I'm not given any specifics as to what "empower" does exactly. In that sense, I cannot provide a better description because I am just as in the dark as everyone else.
Exactly my point.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
It never occurred to me as either necessary or fruitful. I'll ask right now for cop/doc/vig, but I don't think that Zind will provide any meaningful clarification. I don't believe the intent of my role is to know specifically how I will empower the affected action.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
#1739 is where I explain why Wessel and DM are both likely town, based on Asian's scumlists. Based solely on behavior, both you and Wessel are self-aware and guarded enough in your play styles to make determining alignment that way unreliable at best.
Thanks for the link. You haven't addressed why you haven't named me as a suspect prior to now, nor have you named any other suspect, unless that's what you intended by mentioning Wessel's playstyle. Since you cited PoE as a reason for your suspicion on me, it shouldn't be much trouble to provide your list.
It never occurred to me as either necessary or fruitful. I'll ask right now for cop/doc/vig, but I don't think that Zind will provide any meaningful clarification. I don't believe the intent of my role is to know specifically how I will empower the affected action.
Weren't you curious? It never hurts to ask, even if you expect no answer. How did you expect to know how best to leverage your ability if you knew nothing about it?
Thanks for the link. You haven't addressed why you haven't named me as a suspect prior to now, nor have you named any other suspect, unless that's what you intended by mentioning Wessel's playstyle. Since you cited PoE as a reason for your suspicion on me, it shouldn't be much trouble to provide your list.
Your play today that I am concerned with relates mostly to your staunch defense of me. It was suspiciously reminiscent of a scum who proffers feeble criticism of a mislynch for credibility afterwards. Although you made it clear that you believed I was town, you did very little to seriously jeopardize any chances of me being lynched. I found it a move that would be a very natural inclusion to your scum repertoire.
As with most other concerns, it's not an infallible interpretation. Given the climate of the town, it is unlikely that I can rally any reasonable pressure against you with that sole point. I had yet to do a reread of you because 1) of the above observation developed fairly recently and in a busy time and 2) of the particular difficulties I've already described of gleaming anything useful from doing so.
My running list at the moment:
To Reread
Liquidity Crisis
Pale Mage (r. dropkickdude)
Archmage Eternal
Artifice 101 (r. Shinen)
Like the explanation for my reread on Wessel, the explanation for each can be found somewhere in the thread. Given this, it's evident that you being one of the remaining scum is fairly likely from my perspective.
Fair enough. Other valid options?
Not really.
Weren't you curious? It never hurts to ask, even if you expect no answer. How did you expect to know how best to leverage your ability if you knew nothing about it?
I'm not quite understanding this curiosity that everyone else seems to be experiencing. Like I've said, it's fairly evident that the intent of my role is not to know how specifically it works. Optimal use of it then, it follows, is fairly straightforward - I use it on players that are both likely town and likely to be using an ability that night.
Quote from Pale Mage »
What about the flavor makes clear he means the solstices? I want specifics, please. It's unclear what you mean.
I am described to revel in both the hottest day of the summer and the coldest day of the winter. In fact, the flavor specifically mentions the Summer and Winter Solstice. I can only assume that Zind believed the term "equinox" to be more inclusive than it actually is.
Did he say this to you, or is this just your inference?
I guess you could call it an "inference," though, unless I am mistaken about the occurrence of equinoxes, it is undoubtedly an error on the part of the mod.
Your play today that I am concerned with relates mostly to your staunch defense of me.
You may want to prepare to be more suspicious of me, then, 'cause I'm not sure I can get behind your lynch at this point.
It was suspiciously reminiscent of a scum who proffers feeble criticism of a mislynch for credibility afterwards. Although you made it clear that you believed I was town, you did very little to seriously jeopardize any chances of me being lynched. I found it a move that would be a very natural inclusion to your scum repertoire.
Dude, I went so far as to go back and pull out the best example of you following a thought process and changing your mind unprovoked and have thrown in it in at least one of your detractor's faces. That's like ten times what you've done to defend yourself.
I can see your point about cred, but frankly if I were looking to "build cred" I already have stronger stones on which to stand. Better to let you take the drop and then move on.
...and that said, I have defended townies on their way to the gallows as scum. Dun dun dun!
As with most other concerns, it's not an infallible interpretation. Given the climate of the town, it is unlikely that I can rally any reasonable pressure against you with that sole point. I had yet to do a reread of you because 1) of the above observation developed fairly recently and in a busy time and 2) of the particular difficulties I've already described of gleaming anything useful from doing so.
You certainly aren't going to bring pressure against me or anyone else by sitting on your hands.
My running list at the moment:
To Reread
Liquidity Crisis
Pale Mage (r. dropkickdude)
Archmage Eternal
Artifice 101 (r. Shinen)
Like the explanation for my reread on Wessel, the explanation for each can be found somewhere in the thread. Given this, it's evident that you being one of the remaining scum is fairly likely from my perspective.
I'd like your explanation for AE since you and I have had that talk before and you dropped him from your reading list like a hot rock. What put him back on?
I'm not quite understanding this curiosity that everyone else seems to be experiencing. Like I've said, it's fairly evident that the intent of my role is not to know how specifically it works. Optimal use of it then, it follows, is fairly straightforward - I use it on players that are both likely town and likely to be using an ability that night.
Blah if true, but fine for now.
I am described to revel in both the hottest day of the summer and the coldest day of the winter. In fact, the flavor specifically mentions the Summer and Winter Solstice. I can only assume that Zind believed the term "equinox" to be more inclusive than it actually is.
Okay. I've been thinking about this, and I think you're wrong. I think Zindabad knows damn well the difference between an equinox and a solstice. I think he's trying to convey that you are placed between the two extremes, as indeed the equinoxes are.
So...I believe you there.
Like if you asked me right now, this second, I'm dead set against your lynch. I can justify the flavor, and my criticism and defense of your earlier play still resonate with me (if no one else).
You certainly aren't going to bring pressure against me or anyone else by sitting on your hands.
Pressure on you is hardly my highest priority. I have lost faith in both my ability to direct this town and its capacity to act rationally. Finding scum is more for my personal satisfaction and a reflection of the commitment I made when I joined the game.
I'd like your explanation for AE since you and I have had that talk before and you dropped him from your reading list like a hot rock. What put him back on?
That's still a mistake. Evidently I neglected to change it from the last time this was brought up.
Okay. I've been thinking about this, and I think you're wrong. I think Zindabad knows damn well the difference between an equinox and a solstice. I think he's trying to convey that you are placed between the two extremes, as indeed the equinoxes are.
So...I believe you there.
That would make sense. Apologies to Zind for my shortsightedness, then.
Pressure on you is hardly my highest priority. I have lost faith in both my ability to direct this town and its capacity to act rationally. Finding scum is more for my personal satisfaction and a reflection of the commitment I made when I joined the game.
:/
Well...why don't you do us a favor and give a read on those on your list (keep AE on it for this exercise) and share your findings. Pretty sure you're getting lynched today, but just in case I'm right and a whole lot of other people are wrong we might as well have your input.
And, of course, if I'm wrong and a whole of other people are right, the power is in your hands to give up the sham.
I kinda hate I think you're town either way. I totally had my Doctor Horrible reference cocked and loaded before I did my read of you earlier this Day. I was so going to drop the "your mask is slipping" in resplendent dramatic tones.
Well...why don't you do us a favor and give a read on those on your list (keep AE on it for this exercise) and share your findings. Pretty sure you're getting lynched today, but just in case I'm right and a whole lot of other people are wrong we might as well have your input.
And, of course, if I'm wrong and a whole of other people are right, the power is in your hands to give up the sham.
There is a significant difference between replying to your queries and rereading and analyzing all of a player's posts. I'm not optimistic enough to believe any work I put in right now will be put to good use by the town (nor do I believe there is much to be gleaned from a dead townie's reads in general). If I am going to ever reread those players, I'll be doing them when my own schedule complies.
I kinda hate I think you're town either way. I totally had my Doctor Horrible reference cocked and loaded before I did my read of you earlier this Day. I was so going to drop the "your mask is slipping" in resplendent dramatic tones.
There is a significant difference between replying to your queries and rereading and analyzing all of a player's posts. I'm not optimistic enough to believe any work I put in right now will be put to good use by the town (nor do I believe there is much to be gleaned from a dead townie's reads in general). If I am going to ever reread those players, I'll be doing them when my own schedule complies.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There's nothing in iLord's early game that convinces me he's worth the lynch here. I see his tone changed a bit later in the game once he came under fire, which is a null tell. I see several people pointing to several different reasons, none of which seem to match up to each other. I see dubius-at-best evidence that does nothing other than paint him combatitive. If that was enough to get a lynch going, Iso and Arti should both be long gone by now.
I'm uncomfortable with his inability to explain what his ability does, but that's about it, and that's not enough to lynch him.
I'm also pretty sure that some of you on this wagon were busy telling me off when I tried to point out the discrepancy in Void's flavor versus his claim when that thing went down. Funny how things change like that...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
All reads, whether from scum, town, noobs, vets, or people with a skewed sense of reality have some information that can be gleaned from them. All information is valuable.
Except scum comments as they leave the game distract bad town.
@iLord: How do you justify the idea of a nebulous "Town Empowerer" when I've already claimed Town Motivator?
I'm absolutely stunned I didn't come back to this game in its Night phase. What are you guys seeing here that I'm not? He's not saying anything. He's claiming the Mod can't tell him what his ability does.
The Mod....
CAN'T
...tell him? Given: "Hey zindabad, what would happen if I motivated a generic Cop?" iLord can't even say how the Clock would be effected when claiming??
I call BS of the highest degree.
Confirm vote, again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
@iLord: How do you justify the idea of a nebulous "Town Empowerer" when I've already claimed Town Motivator?
I'm absolutely stunned I didn't come back to this game in its Night phase. What are you guys seeing here that I'm not? He's not saying anything. He's claiming the Mod can't tell him what his ability does.
The Mod....
CAN'T
...tell him? Given: "Hey zindabad, what would happen if I motivated a generic Cop?" iLord can't even say how the Clock would be effected when claiming??
I call BS of the highest degree.
Confirm vote, again.
It's these type of arguments you make that can warrant no response. From my perspective, I have both received this role and the mod has neglected to enlighten me when prompted. There can and should be no logical "justification" from my part.
My abilities move the Clock +3, +5, and +7, depending on the number of players alive.
======================
I'm Jayalun, Prince of the Extremes, Elemental of the Equinox. I have two abilities. The first one is a summer ability that empowers any summer actions my target makes. The second is the same, but for winter. I used the first one on Wessel last night. I received confirmation that my ability went through, but not whether or not Wessel actually took any summer actions.
It's these type of arguments you make that can warrant no response. From my perspective, I have both received this role and the mod has neglected to enlighten me when prompted. There can and should be no logical "justification" from my part.
My abilities move the Clock +3, +5, and +7, depending on the number of players alive.
This claim mimics my role.
Like almost to the letter, except the fail-flavor and how the Winter part works. I still cannot justify how the two roles exist in the same game.
This disturbs me. I feel as though a mafia rolecop has checked me out because I made it so patently obvious I had something to target Dancing Mad with, and this is where iLord is getting his information for a falseclaim. Yes, that is a complete fabrication on my part, but it isn't baseless. I reread my role PM and those are my numbers.
This whole thing is giving me the willies.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I mean I think ilord is scum but he's completely correct in his critique of you. You're asking him to explain things he didn't cause, this is probably why you go ignored more often than you feel you should. While the root of what your saying might be poignant, your procedures of investigation and questioning are so bad that no one even cares.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
@WoD: if I were to Motivate you, who would you shoot depending on how iLord flips? I mean if he flips town, you have a free shot on me. Have at it. It will be no less than I expect.
But if he flips scum like I'm betting, which two players would you shoot?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Like almost to the letter, except the fail-flavor and how the Winter part works. I still cannot justify how the two roles exist in the same game.
This disturbs me. I feel as though a mafia rolecop has checked me out because I made it so patently obvious I had something to target Dancing Mad with, and this is where iLord is getting his information for a falseclaim. Yes, that is a complete fabrication on my part, but it isn't baseless. I reread my role PM and those are my numbers.
This whole thing is giving me the willies.
<- This would have been enough for me to hammer. Reminds me of my own shenanigans in Starcraft.
However I don't think a rolecop would have warned their partner/themselves to stay away from claiming something similar. Nothing has been as parallel up to this point iirc.
<- This would have been enough for me to hammer. Reminds me of my own shenanigans in Starcraft.
However I don't think a rolecop would have warned their partner/themselves to stay away from claiming something similar. Nothing has been as parallel up to this point iirc.
Could MzztrTezz, formerly Dancing Mad be a passive role cop? Maybe have known what I was because I targetted him?
Given the cryptic nature of the information surrounding all of this, it could be a possibility. Meh. I hate it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
If anyone has any weak abilities or isn't sure what to do, might I suggest targeting me tonight? I'm rather Goo mafiaesque in Summer. That's all I'm planning on saying about it.
Vote: Yanni
Though, I think Vez would be a fine lynch too. If he doesn't get in here and start doing stuff very soon I'd be fine with switching my vote.
"Hours, days, weeks; all passed unremarked. With no night and unending light, it was nothing but a haze. The people of the world drudged through their lives as though soulless, trying only to escape death for another day. The dirty, mottled sunlight of dusk gave them no solace from the harsh reality: they were starving. Empty eyes peered out of sunken faces that lacked even the emotion of anguish. They had given up."
"But there was still time for the Elementals to save them!"
"What did they know of the frantic struggle for survival being fought out at the Clock? Again, as in the First Creation, incomprehensible forces were at war, and humans were nothing but pawns, as when your father and I play at shatreng. But those pieces do not thirst, they do not weep, they do not cry in hunger and pain when their malnourished mothers' milk runs dry. All they knew was suffering."
"..."
"..."
"And no succor was forthcoming from the Elementals. They turned their pursuit to Jayalun next."
"What was he?"
"Jayalun was the Prince of the Extremes, dark of skin and red of eye. Standing nearly twice the height of a human, he was muscular and powerful. 'I am not your enemy,' he declared in a hissing voice. 'Then why is it we haven't seen you before?' pressed the others. 'Seen me?' Jayalun replied incredulously. 'Why, you see me at every one of our yearly meetings.' They said, 'There are many Elementals at those meetings, and we do not know you. Where are you during the rest of the time? What is it you do?"
"...And what did he tell them?"
"The truth, dear one. He said, 'I only leave my sanctum on two days of the year: the solstices, the warmest and the coldest. I provide the variance needed for the seasons to turn smoothly.' 'Two days,' sneered the others. 'How convenient an excuse.' 'You must believe me,' he said firmly. 'I am the Prince of the Extremes.' 'Oh, "prince", is it? Well, excuse us, your highness, but you are nothing but treacherous scum, and a slave to the greatest Traitor of them all!' Crying out for his blood, they set upon Jayalun and destroyed him."
"And?"
"And he was true to the end. The only blood that spilled that day was, as before, innocent blood. The Elemental of the Equinox was dead, and with him went the variance of climate, the herald of the seasons. Voes's creation was being undone before their very eyes."
"Wait. The Equinox? That doesn't make any sense. You said Jayalun came out only on the Solstices."
"Nevertheless, that was what Voes named him. It only shows that those who made the world, like their creations, the humans and Elementals, could err as well. But there was no room for error any longer. The Clock continued to tick, and Winter drew ever closer. With no crops, no prospect of harvest, and little hope, humanity's fate seemed irrevocably headed for disaster...."
iLord has been lynched. He was Jayalun, Prince of the Extremes, Elemental of the Equinox.
It is now Night 3. The night action deadline is set for Saturday, April 14th, at 8:00pm EST.
***
I will confirm, now that he is dead, that iLord's role name was given to him in error and was always intended to be Elemental of the Solstice, as referenced in his flavor. I have checked a couple of backups of my setup document and believe the problem originated when I transferred my role PM drafts to a new document to be cleaned up and sent off to be reviewed. The final setup document contains both the correct and incorrect version of the role, but the PM I sent to iLord included the incorrect version.
Please refrain from discussing this mistake until post-game. Thank you.
@WoD: if I were to Motivate you, who would you shoot depending on how iLord flips? I mean if he flips town, you have a free shot on me. Have at it. It will be no less than I expect.
But if he flips scum like I'm betting, which two players would you shoot?
Who would I shoot?
Honestly?
I'm not sure just yet. You and Iso would be my first two choices, but maybe also AE, to test Brinatoo's claim.
"All turned toward the Clock. In the decaying citadels of humanity, Xandrap, Schaarsmeet, and the rest, starving men, women and children lifted their heads on withered necks and peered with rheumy eyes at the horizon and at the stark tower that was outlined there. Once it had been a symbol of harmony and the grace of the Father, though few now remembered those times. Now, it represented the uncertainty and suffering that oppressed them all. But still, they looked. Aye, and listened as well. Clang! Clang! Clang! Clang! The Aeon Clock struck Autumn, and banished the lingering memory of Summer."
"An autumn without a harvest. How would they ever survive?"
"How, indeed."
"And where was Voes? This is what I really don't understand, Sidi. The Father created them all and left them to die. How could he be so heartless?"
"They were only playthings to him after all."
"That's unfair, Dina. He fought Yblisa to save them."
"In the beginning, yes. Then he made the world anew and forgot about them, once they lost their appeal."
"You always take her side! Yblisa was a monster!"
"...She never asked for anything but to be left alone."
"Who are we to understand the motivations of divine beings, children? One thing was clear, however: there was no succor coming from anywhere. If the Elementals were to save humanity and existence as they knew it, they were going to have to do it on their own. And their task, already gargantuan, was being made harder with every passing day. This time, they found three of their number dead."
"Three!? Who were they?"
"On a cliff some distance from the Clock grounds, they came upon the lifeless, seemingly untouched body of Akaramol, Speaker to the Winds, the Elemental of Gales. His expression was strained, as though he had been struggling to hear something before he died."
"Perhaps the winds were speaking to him."
"Most likely. Not far away was the grey, smoldering corpse of Febanatik, known as the Blazebringer, the Elemental of Heat. He, too, was untouched, although he looked quite different without his majestic flaming wings, which had guttered out when he died. All that remained was his serpentine body coiled up into itself."
"And the third?"
"Back at the Clock grounds, they found the mortal remains of Adoreq, the Tree of Seasons. The Elemental of Trees was where he had always been - well, most of him, anyway. He had been ripped to shreds of bark and startlingly pink and fleshlike heartwood. The area was strewn with his leaves, some flush with summer's verdance, others already beginning to turn in anticipation of Autumn."
"...Shame. He was one of my favorites."
"And of all the children. They would weep at his loss, if they didn't have more pressing matters to concern them. Humanity's cities were restive, their people were starving en masse, and a faint chill in the air hinted at a deadly Winter lurking just beyond view, as though it were some white wolf or rabid bear hidden in the woods. The Elementals knew there was little hope of saving them - but if they waited much longer, there would be no hope whatsoever. The hour was upon them."
Iso, Akaramol, Speaker to the Winds, Elemental of Gales, Artifice 101, Febanatik, the Blazebringer, Elemental of Heat, and MzztrTetris, Adoreq, the Tree of Seasons, Elemental of Trees have been killed.
It is now Day 4. With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch. The deadline is set for Friday, May 4th, at 5:00pm EST.
The Aeon Clock has moved forward 21 places and now stands at 66. It is now AUTUMN.
Not explicitly but something more to that end of the spectrum than what you provided for sure.
I did not.
#1739 is where I explain why Wessel and DM are both likely town, based on Asian's scumlists. Based solely on behavior, both you and Wessel are self-aware and guarded enough in your play styles to make determining alignment that way unreliable at best.
DM was another valid option. I picked Wessel.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I'm not quite understanding what you expected. Would you have liked for me to know how my ability would affect generic abilities such as cops/docs/vigs?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I would expect you to give a better description of what "empower" does exactly. Does it provide a double shot? And extra charge? The ability to move seasons? What the heck does it do? If that means figuring out how to apply it to cops/docs/vigs specifically so be it.
So tell us. Why target Wessel, of all people, with your ability?
I do not know whether it provides a "double shot" or an "extra charge." As you can probably imagine, I'm not given any specifics as to what "empower" does exactly. In that sense, I cannot provide a better description because I am just as in the dark as everyone else.
You appear to have missed the entirety of my discussion with PM/IB about this.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Exactly my point.
It never occurred to me as either necessary or fruitful. I'll ask right now for cop/doc/vig, but I don't think that Zind will provide any meaningful clarification. I don't believe the intent of my role is to know specifically how I will empower the affected action.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What would you suggest I ask, then?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Go ahead and ask what you were asking.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My Custom Set: Solescurio
We'll come back to this.
Thanks for the link. You haven't addressed why you haven't named me as a suspect prior to now, nor have you named any other suspect, unless that's what you intended by mentioning Wessel's playstyle. Since you cited PoE as a reason for your suspicion on me, it shouldn't be much trouble to provide your list.
Fair enough. Other valid options?
Weren't you curious? It never hurts to ask, even if you expect no answer. How did you expect to know how best to leverage your ability if you knew nothing about it?
What about the flavor makes clear he means the solstices? I want specifics, please. It's unclear what you mean.
Your play today that I am concerned with relates mostly to your staunch defense of me. It was suspiciously reminiscent of a scum who proffers feeble criticism of a mislynch for credibility afterwards. Although you made it clear that you believed I was town, you did very little to seriously jeopardize any chances of me being lynched. I found it a move that would be a very natural inclusion to your scum repertoire.
As with most other concerns, it's not an infallible interpretation. Given the climate of the town, it is unlikely that I can rally any reasonable pressure against you with that sole point. I had yet to do a reread of you because 1) of the above observation developed fairly recently and in a busy time and 2) of the particular difficulties I've already described of gleaming anything useful from doing so.
My running list at the moment:
To Reread
Liquidity Crisis
Pale Mage (r. dropkickdude)
Archmage Eternal
Artifice 101 (r. Shinen)
Indeterminate
ganderin_dan (r. pinkfloyd)
Leaning Town
DJ Catchem
Iso (r. Gigas1)
Likely Town
Wessel
Dancing Mad (r. Burstinatrix)
kpaca
Brinatoo
AlphaInsidious
Wrath_of_DoG
Like the explanation for my reread on Wessel, the explanation for each can be found somewhere in the thread. Given this, it's evident that you being one of the remaining scum is fairly likely from my perspective.
Not really.
I'm not quite understanding this curiosity that everyone else seems to be experiencing. Like I've said, it's fairly evident that the intent of my role is not to know how specifically it works. Optimal use of it then, it follows, is fairly straightforward - I use it on players that are both likely town and likely to be using an ability that night.
I am described to revel in both the hottest day of the summer and the coldest day of the winter. In fact, the flavor specifically mentions the Summer and Winter Solstice. I can only assume that Zind believed the term "equinox" to be more inclusive than it actually is.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Did he say this to you, or is this just your inference?
I guess you could call it an "inference," though, unless I am mistaken about the occurrence of equinoxes, it is undoubtedly an error on the part of the mod.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
You may want to prepare to be more suspicious of me, then, 'cause I'm not sure I can get behind your lynch at this point.
Dude, I went so far as to go back and pull out the best example of you following a thought process and changing your mind unprovoked and have thrown in it in at least one of your detractor's faces. That's like ten times what you've done to defend yourself.
I can see your point about cred, but frankly if I were looking to "build cred" I already have stronger stones on which to stand. Better to let you take the drop and then move on.
...and that said, I have defended townies on their way to the gallows as scum. Dun dun dun!
You certainly aren't going to bring pressure against me or anyone else by sitting on your hands.
I'd like your explanation for AE since you and I have had that talk before and you dropped him from your reading list like a hot rock. What put him back on?
Blah if true, but fine for now.
Okay. I've been thinking about this, and I think you're wrong. I think Zindabad knows damn well the difference between an equinox and a solstice. I think he's trying to convey that you are placed between the two extremes, as indeed the equinoxes are.
So...I believe you there.
Like if you asked me right now, this second, I'm dead set against your lynch. I can justify the flavor, and my criticism and defense of your earlier play still resonate with me (if no one else).
Answer the AE thing for me.
Pressure on you is hardly my highest priority. I have lost faith in both my ability to direct this town and its capacity to act rationally. Finding scum is more for my personal satisfaction and a reflection of the commitment I made when I joined the game.
That's still a mistake. Evidently I neglected to change it from the last time this was brought up.
That would make sense. Apologies to Zind for my shortsightedness, then.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
:/
Well...why don't you do us a favor and give a read on those on your list (keep AE on it for this exercise) and share your findings. Pretty sure you're getting lynched today, but just in case I'm right and a whole lot of other people are wrong we might as well have your input.
And, of course, if I'm wrong and a whole of other people are right, the power is in your hands to give up the sham.
There is a significant difference between replying to your queries and rereading and analyzing all of a player's posts. I'm not optimistic enough to believe any work I put in right now will be put to good use by the town (nor do I believe there is much to be gleaned from a dead townie's reads in general). If I am going to ever reread those players, I'll be doing them when my own schedule complies.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
You are impossible.
I thought you'd appreciate that.
Also, how the hell are you supposed to be able to tell what your ability does?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I would have.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Quote?
I'm not?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I'm uncomfortable with his inability to explain what his ability does, but that's about it, and that's not enough to lynch him.
I'm also pretty sure that some of you on this wagon were busy telling me off when I tried to point out the discrepancy in Void's flavor versus his claim when that thing went down. Funny how things change like that...
--->DJ
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Takes one to know one
Sounds pretty fake to me.
@iLord: How do you justify the idea of a nebulous "Town Empowerer" when I've already claimed Town Motivator?
I'm absolutely stunned I didn't come back to this game in its Night phase. What are you guys seeing here that I'm not? He's not saying anything. He's claiming the Mod can't tell him what his ability does.
The Mod....
CAN'T
...tell him? Given: "Hey zindabad, what would happen if I motivated a generic Cop?" iLord can't even say how the Clock would be effected when claiming??
I call BS of the highest degree.
Confirm vote, again.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
It's these type of arguments you make that can warrant no response. From my perspective, I have both received this role and the mod has neglected to enlighten me when prompted. There can and should be no logical "justification" from my part.
My abilities move the Clock +3, +5, and +7, depending on the number of players alive.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
You'll have to pardon me for publicly noting how self centered you are in your play.
This claim mimics my role.
Like almost to the letter, except the fail-flavor and how the Winter part works. I still cannot justify how the two roles exist in the same game.
This disturbs me. I feel as though a mafia rolecop has checked me out because I made it so patently obvious I had something to target Dancing Mad with, and this is where iLord is getting his information for a falseclaim. Yes, that is a complete fabrication on my part, but it isn't baseless. I reread my role PM and those are my numbers.
This whole thing is giving me the willies.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Vote: iLord
But if he flips scum like I'm betting, which two players would you shoot?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
<- This would have been enough for me to hammer. Reminds me of my own shenanigans in Starcraft.
However I don't think a rolecop would have warned their partner/themselves to stay away from claiming something similar. Nothing has been as parallel up to this point iirc.
Given the cryptic nature of the information surrounding all of this, it could be a possibility. Meh. I hate it.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Or maybe because the claim was so similar... again, meh, I dunno.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I don't think the numbers mean anything.
...did you not research Goo Mafia before you targeted him?
.
"But there was still time for the Elementals to save them!"
"What did they know of the frantic struggle for survival being fought out at the Clock? Again, as in the First Creation, incomprehensible forces were at war, and humans were nothing but pawns, as when your father and I play at shatreng. But those pieces do not thirst, they do not weep, they do not cry in hunger and pain when their malnourished mothers' milk runs dry. All they knew was suffering."
"..."
"..."
"And no succor was forthcoming from the Elementals. They turned their pursuit to Jayalun next."
"What was he?"
"Jayalun was the Prince of the Extremes, dark of skin and red of eye. Standing nearly twice the height of a human, he was muscular and powerful. 'I am not your enemy,' he declared in a hissing voice. 'Then why is it we haven't seen you before?' pressed the others. 'Seen me?' Jayalun replied incredulously. 'Why, you see me at every one of our yearly meetings.' They said, 'There are many Elementals at those meetings, and we do not know you. Where are you during the rest of the time? What is it you do?"
"...And what did he tell them?"
"The truth, dear one. He said, 'I only leave my sanctum on two days of the year: the solstices, the warmest and the coldest. I provide the variance needed for the seasons to turn smoothly.' 'Two days,' sneered the others. 'How convenient an excuse.' 'You must believe me,' he said firmly. 'I am the Prince of the Extremes.' 'Oh, "prince", is it? Well, excuse us, your highness, but you are nothing but treacherous scum, and a slave to the greatest Traitor of them all!' Crying out for his blood, they set upon Jayalun and destroyed him."
"And?"
"And he was true to the end. The only blood that spilled that day was, as before, innocent blood. The Elemental of the Equinox was dead, and with him went the variance of climate, the herald of the seasons. Voes's creation was being undone before their very eyes."
"Wait. The Equinox? That doesn't make any sense. You said Jayalun came out only on the Solstices."
"Nevertheless, that was what Voes named him. It only shows that those who made the world, like their creations, the humans and Elementals, could err as well. But there was no room for error any longer. The Clock continued to tick, and Winter drew ever closer. With no crops, no prospect of harvest, and little hope, humanity's fate seemed irrevocably headed for disaster...."
iLord has been lynched. He was Jayalun, Prince of the Extremes, Elemental of the Equinox.
It is now Night 3. The night action deadline is set for Saturday, April 14th, at 8:00pm EST.
***
I will confirm, now that he is dead, that iLord's role name was given to him in error and was always intended to be Elemental of the Solstice, as referenced in his flavor. I have checked a couple of backups of my setup document and believe the problem originated when I transferred my role PM drafts to a new document to be cleaned up and sent off to be reviewed. The final setup document contains both the correct and incorrect version of the role, but the PM I sent to iLord included the incorrect version.
Please refrain from discussing this mistake until post-game. Thank you.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Honestly?
I'm not sure just yet. You and Iso would be my first two choices, but maybe also AE, to test Brinatoo's claim.
Tell me why I shouldn't shoot you.
"An autumn without a harvest. How would they ever survive?"
"How, indeed."
"And where was Voes? This is what I really don't understand, Sidi. The Father created them all and left them to die. How could he be so heartless?"
"They were only playthings to him after all."
"That's unfair, Dina. He fought Yblisa to save them."
"In the beginning, yes. Then he made the world anew and forgot about them, once they lost their appeal."
"You always take her side! Yblisa was a monster!"
"...She never asked for anything but to be left alone."
"Who are we to understand the motivations of divine beings, children? One thing was clear, however: there was no succor coming from anywhere. If the Elementals were to save humanity and existence as they knew it, they were going to have to do it on their own. And their task, already gargantuan, was being made harder with every passing day. This time, they found three of their number dead."
"Three!? Who were they?"
"On a cliff some distance from the Clock grounds, they came upon the lifeless, seemingly untouched body of Akaramol, Speaker to the Winds, the Elemental of Gales. His expression was strained, as though he had been struggling to hear something before he died."
"Perhaps the winds were speaking to him."
"Most likely. Not far away was the grey, smoldering corpse of Febanatik, known as the Blazebringer, the Elemental of Heat. He, too, was untouched, although he looked quite different without his majestic flaming wings, which had guttered out when he died. All that remained was his serpentine body coiled up into itself."
"And the third?"
"Back at the Clock grounds, they found the mortal remains of Adoreq, the Tree of Seasons. The Elemental of Trees was where he had always been - well, most of him, anyway. He had been ripped to shreds of bark and startlingly pink and fleshlike heartwood. The area was strewn with his leaves, some flush with summer's verdance, others already beginning to turn in anticipation of Autumn."
"...Shame. He was one of my favorites."
"And of all the children. They would weep at his loss, if they didn't have more pressing matters to concern them. Humanity's cities were restive, their people were starving en masse, and a faint chill in the air hinted at a deadly Winter lurking just beyond view, as though it were some white wolf or rabid bear hidden in the woods. The Elementals knew there was little hope of saving them - but if they waited much longer, there would be no hope whatsoever. The hour was upon them."
Iso, Akaramol, Speaker to the Winds, Elemental of Gales, Artifice 101, Febanatik, the Blazebringer, Elemental of Heat, and MzztrTetris, Adoreq, the Tree of Seasons, Elemental of Trees have been killed.
It is now Day 4. With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch. The deadline is set for Friday, May 4th, at 5:00pm EST.
The Aeon Clock has moved forward 21 places and now stands at 66. It is now AUTUMN.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Interesting that Arti saying that he was the elemental of metal was false.
iLord being town was also a shocker to me.
vote Brinatoo I'd like to hear a bit more from you, the claimed 'random' cop. You've basically been absent ever since you 'cleared' AE. Let's talk.