Also, I am bothered by the fact that the flavor of this game seems to suggest that the Town represent the brainwashed prisoners who are too stupid or just don't care enough anymore and want to stay in prison, while the Mafia appear to be the rebellious freedom fighters.
Man, I want to be a freedom fighter, not a brainwashed drudge who thinks it's better to stay in prison.
What the heck am I even fighting for here.
I'm also really enjoying the flavor; but I read it slightly differently. We're predisposed to side with the prisoners since the point of view is that of the warden, who is a prisoner as well, and has ill feelings toward the seekers, et al. We don't know the whole story, and I think that the struggle between the "inmates" is much more gray than it might seem. I'm getting quite the Joss Whedon vibe, where you root for the possibly corrupt protagonists in Dollhouse.
Also, Vote: Xyre. Hello old friend
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
1. 21p with 1 confirmed "sk" leads me to believe 4 mafia team. 5 is only other possibility and it's possible given that's it's a few, but I'll assume 4 for balance reasons.
2. I'll go with jumpy. Felt like spurring convo and Eco voted unvoted and revoted me. Did you forget you voted me?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
1. 21p with 1 confirmed "sk" leads me to believe 4 mafia team. 5 is only other possibility and it's possible given that's it's a few, but I'll assume 4 for balance reasons.
What does the bolded part mean? What is a few?
2. I'll go with jumpy. Felt like spurring convo and Eco voted unvoted and revoted me. Did you forget you voted me?
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Also, I am bothered by the fact that the flavor of this game seems to suggest that the Town represent the brainwashed prisoners who are too stupid or just don't care enough anymore and want to stay in prison, while the Mafia appear to be the rebellious freedom fighters.
Man, I want to be a freedom fighter, not a brainwashed drudge who thinks it's better to stay in prison.
I'm also really enjoying the flavor; but I read it slightly differently. We're predisposed to side with the prisoners since the point of view is that of the warden, who is a prisoner as well, and has ill feelings toward the seekers, et al. We don't know the whole story, and I think that the struggle between the "inmates" is much more gray than it might seem. I'm getting quite the Joss Whedon vibe, where you root for the possibly corrupt protagonists in Dollhouse.
Also, Vote: Xyre. Hello old friend
Does this exchange bother anyone else here, or is it just me? Especially the AI part of this whole thing.
Vote: Xyre
Her last two lines seem forced into the conversation, as if she is thinking "Oh wait, I AM SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THE TOWN!"
FoS: AlphaInsidious
Still not sure where to place him ATM, his response to Xyre bugs me to no end and seems off as well.
1. 21p with 1 confirmed "sk" leads me to believe 4 mafia team. 5 is only other possibility and it's possible given that's it's a few, but I'll assume 4 for balance reasons.
Quote from Zindy, opening post »
You are welcome to attempt any of these tactics. At best, they will not provide any benefit; at worst, they may harm your team. You have been warned.
And 5 mafia in a 20+ game is not only likely, it's standard.
It would have to be a ridiculously powerful Mafia team, or a whole snotload of Neutrals, to justify having less than 25% Mafia roles in any game.* Wrath_of_DoG punches myself stoutly on the nose.
And 5 mafia in a 20+ game is not only likely, it's standard.
It would have to be a ridiculously powerful Mafia team, or a whole snotload of Neutrals, to justify having less than 25% Mafia roles in any game.* Wrath_of_DoG punches myself stoutly on the nose.
There's something to be said for hypocrisy this blatant, and self-referenced.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
1. 21p with 1 confirmed "sk" leads me to believe 4 mafia team. 5 is only other possibility and it's possible given that's it's a few, but I'll assume 4 for balance reasons.
Why do you assume the Neutral is an SK? From looking at just the win condition, "Invoke Cehenna" sounds like some kind of ritual performed that will instantly end the game. I have some ideas on possible role mechanics that may fit this bill but I'm not going to pursue that avenue of thought until later in the game.
As for the scum team:
Quote from zindabad »
- Randomized scumteam. Almost all roles have been designed to be able to play as either alignment. After all players have been randomly assigned a role, a mafia will be randomly selected from among them.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And 5 mafia in a 20+ game is not only likely, it's standard.
It would have to be a ridiculously powerful Mafia team, or a whole snotload of Neutrals, to justify having less than 25% Mafia roles in any game.* Wrath_of_DoG punches myself stoutly on the nose.
The Neutral wincon, in my PoV, only makes sense considering a lone neutral and a single neutral faction, especially if you consider that Zinda would have to give the same skill (Invoke Cehenna) to two different players, which doesn't seem like him. 5 mafia setup seems fair, though.
But anyway, discussing the setup isn't really an issue right now. I guess we have to wait for either Axel or Shark to explain themselves before getting anywhere.
Why do you assume the Neutral is an SK? From looking at just the win condition, "Invoke Cehenna" sounds like some kind of ritual performed that will instantly end the game. I have some ideas on possible role mechanics that may fit this bill but I'm not going to pursue that avenue of thought until later in the game.
Whelp, there goes a question I was gonna ask Shark.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
While your comment does bother me, it did not scream as scummy as Axelrod's comment did.
Well, since my vote of Xyre is unrelated to my Axelrod response, I'm still not sure that you've made clear what you don't like about my response. Can you elaborate?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Well, since my vote of Xyre is unrelated to my Axelrod response, I'm still not sure that you've made clear what you don't like about my response. Can you elaborate?
As I said earlier, my Xyre vote was a mistake. That part was not the part that bothered me. The fact you didn't seem to have a connection to the prisoners as town is what bothered me. There is this disconnect with you and the prisoners that leads me to believe you may not be a prisoner at all. There is the chance in the back of my mind though you may actually be reading it as a person and not a player though, and Axelrod's comment was scummier and awkward in my mind that my vote was placed there instead.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, I know your original vote was a mistake, that's kinda what I was getting at, just making sure you knew the circumstances.
You are right that I was critically evaluating the flavor as a "person", just relating it to other narratives I'm familiar with, and was not embodying my role at that time. Hard to do so when my character wouldn't see it as fiction eligible for dissection.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
It came off to me as an unnatural "me, too!" jump on to the potential pressuring of Shark for a reason I see as lacking.
The reason being that Shark jumped on, and voted for, someone for making (what I perceived as) a joke about me being mean to a newbie, and also saying, in so many words, "There are 4 scum"?
His reasoning for voting Kosakosa was not good, and his "2 down, 2 to go" thing looks an awful lot like inside info. Other players had already called him for it. I didn't really have anything to add, but I wanted to see him respond and then apply some kind of pressure. Poke him with a stick to see how he reacts and such.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@Caex: autocorrect. I put FTQ. Autocorrected to few.
I see. Well, Iso already asked the main question I had in mind: Why assume it's a serial killer instead of a neutral of some sort? Especially when we know that the neutral's wincon, and it's not "kill everyone". It's more or less "survive until X happens, then you win".
The other question being why are you speculating about the set up, when the mod said it would, at best, not help, and then stating your suspicion for everyone to see?
I could see that as an oblique sort of way to get everyone speculating about the setup, which as we've established, will do more harm than good.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
The reason being that Shark jumped on, and voted for, someone for making (what I perceived as) a joke about me being mean to a newbie, and also saying, in so many words, "There are 4 scum"?
His reasoning for voting Kosakosa was not good, and his "2 down, 2 to go" thing looks an awful lot like inside info. Other players had already called him for it. I didn't really have anything to add, but I wanted to see him respond and then apply some kind of pressure. Poke him with a stick to see how he reacts and such.
If you think his tone for the being mean to a newer player was a joke, why didn't you also take the "caught 2 scum" as a joke? Even if it wasn't a joke, why is your instant assumption "Shark MUST know who the scum are, ergo, he is scum" instead of thinking he thought he actually found scum? No matter what angle you look at it from, your push on Shark makes little sense to me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I agree with you but not because some angriness, but because it was used to stress, that he is town and that he doesn't like town to be "bad people" because he indeed is town.
I'm not letting him slide with his explanation. But, I don't know how much of this is RVS mumbo jumbo and/or how much of it is "I'M FREAKING TOWN!" mumbo jumbo.
They also begin the game with access to this ability: [LOCKED][LOCKED][LOCKED][LOCKED] - Mow Down (night/active): Target another player and PM the mod with the colors of that player's abilities. If exactly right, you will attempt to kill that player. Otherwise, you will die instead. Then, lock all of Mow Down's locks. This ability may be used by any Mafia member, but only once per night, and the player using it may not use any other abilities tonight. Instead of unlocking one of their own locks, a Mafia member may choose to unlock one of Mow Down's locks.
Meaning, as soon as they know someone's locks' color and Mow Down locks are unlocked, bam, two NKs.
I would then guess that Zinda gave them ways of investigating the color locks on town, but since we don't know how, it's better not giving up free info like that
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Even if you take into account that he misvoted it's just bad. The vote, FoS, and attack seem forced and like he is trying turn an ant hill into a mountain. Plus FoS.
I would then guess that Zinda gave them ways of investigating the color locks on town, but since we don't know how, it's better not giving up free info like that
Roles were randomized. Zinda stressed this in the signups.
Roles were randomized. Zinda stressed this in the signups.
Still, keep in mind that is entirely possible for role skills to have a color condition, thus making the theoretical "color cop" skill meaningful as either town or scum. Having it on scum would be just a nice bonus.
I just wanna bold my opinion of not giving info away like that on D1, especially locks' colors.
You have proposed a mass color claim, but look at this pretty skill Mafia have:
Meaning, as soon as they know someone's locks' color and Mow Down locks are unlocked, bam, two NKs.
I would then guess that Zinda gave them ways of investigating the color locks on town, but since we don't know how, it's better not giving up free info like that
...oh. Somehow I missed that in the OP.
Fair enough.
@Caex: Because it still read like a joke to me. It was a response to a joke responding to a joke...I'm not sure where the disconnect is there for you, but I also can't find a scum motivation for you jumping on Shark with such awful reasoning - you know what does and doesn't make a good case, so I can't see you doing this as scum, but I expect better play from you a la Intrigue. So if you're town, tighten it up!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I agree with you but not because some angriness, but because it was used to stress, that he is town and that he doesn't like town to be "bad people" because he indeed is town.
I'm not letting him slide with his explanation. But, I don't know how much of this is RVS mumbo jumbo and/or how much of it is "I'M FREAKING TOWN!" mumbo jumbo.
But, I'm TOWN. How could it be scummy for me, a member of the TOWN, to say I'm TOWN, when I am, in fact, a member of the TOWN? People in the TOWN have to stick together, you know, being TOWNIES and all.
Has anyone else noticed that the more you say TOWN the less it even looks like a real word?
Sarcasm aside, I feel like I have gotten something useful out of this whole exchange in uncovering scum Ecophagy, and really, how much more could you ask for on Day 1?
And 5 mafia in a 20+ game is not only likely, it's standard.
It would have to be a ridiculously powerful Mafia team, or a whole snotload of Neutrals, to justify having less than 25% Mafia roles in any game.* Wrath_of_DoG punches myself stoutly on the nose.
Actually, no, 4 would be about right, if there was a SK, and depending on power levels and such. The fact Zinda referenced using points for role values would tend to support that. I wouldn't stake the game on it or anything, but if I was guessing, that would be my guess.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Sarcasm aside, I feel like I have gotten something useful out of this whole exchange in uncovering scum Ecophagy, and really, how much more could you ask for on Day 1?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But it's so early. I'm not ready to end the day yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso's lock color claim idea and consequent inability to RTFP ring genuine to me. Caex' work-up of Shark rings less so. It's likely not a gigantic tell, but it's enough to ditch my random vote.
unvote, vote Caex
Mod: I will be V/LA this saturday and most of sunday for MTG States. The convention center wants $20/hr for internet, and that's just plain bull****.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Iso's lock color claim idea and consequent inability to RTFP ring genuine to me.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but ever since I saw kpaca's brilliant cop claim at the beginning of D2 in Seasons, I tend to go over those "genuine" things with a grain of salt.
@Caex: Because it still read like a joke to me. It was a response to a joke responding to a joke...I'm not sure where the disconnect is there for you, but I also can't find a scum motivation for you jumping on Shark with such awful reasoning - you know what does and doesn't make a good case, so I can't see you doing this as scum, but I expect better play from you a la Intrigue. So if you're town, tighten it up!
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
1. Apologies for missing Iso's then Caex's questions addressing me referring to the neutral role as "SK". I've been phone posting, and had a response typed up for WoD when WoD was the last person to post but I had to take care of something and forgot until later when I saw I didn't post it. It's hard to see posts through phones, so here I am now addressing it.
2.
Quote from "Lord Zindabad" »
Neutral win condition: "You win (and everyone else loses) when you unlock all the locks on your passive ability Invoke Cehenna."
Neutral wins on his own, thus, he can be seen as a "SK". The use of quotes is to distinguish this role from traditional SKs with kills. That's what I mean by SK.
3. Did I seriously believe he was scum? No. If I were serious, it's a poor chainsaw, and it's almost as weak as the first ~10 posts of the game (a-la vote the prev. person train).
But was it a joke? I am not inclined to say yes, because I knew my post would generate reaction and I wanted to see what's up.
4. Color lock claim is a bad idea. Too soon, could be a role abusing them. Play it safe.
Seeing how much reaction I generated with my post, I can definitely say we have something to start working with. I'll dig into it shortly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
O, and for the record, my comment on catching 2 scum was KosaKosa and Acension (if I didn't say this earlier).
KosaKosa voted Caex for hassling Acension and calling Caex a scumbag.
Thus it could be seen as a chainsaw. Given that it's in RVS, it is HIGHLY unlikely it is. Though, I won't discount it, but I'll put it on the backburner atm.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
If you think his tone for the being mean to a newer player was a joke, why didn't you also take the "caught 2 scum" as a joke? Even if it wasn't a joke, why is your instant assumption "Shark MUST know who the scum are, ergo, he is scum" instead of thinking he thought he actually found scum? No matter what angle you look at it from, your push on Shark makes little sense to me.
Are you actually reading the game? Because you don't seem to be paying much attention.
1. Apologies for missing Iso's then Caex's questions addressing me referring to the neutral role as "SK". I've been phone posting, and had a response typed up for WoD when WoD was the last person to post but I had to take care of something and forgot until later when I saw I didn't post it. It's hard to see posts through phones, so here I am now addressing it.
2. Neutral wins on his own, thus, he can be seen as a "SK". The use of quotes is to distinguish this role from traditional SKs with kills. That's what I mean by SK.
3. Did I seriously believe he was scum? No. If I were serious, it's a poor chainsaw, and it's almost as weak as the first ~10 posts of the game (a-la vote the prev. person train).
But was it a joke? I am not inclined to say yes, because I knew my post would generate reaction and I wanted to see what's up.
4. Color lock claim is a bad idea. Too soon, could be a role abusing them. Play it safe.
Seeing how much reaction I generated with my post, I can definitely say we have something to start working with. I'll dig into it shortly.
Translation of bolded: 'No, no, I wasn't really serious. I know it sounded scummy - but look, it wasn't a joke! I was trying to get reactions! It sounded scummy on purpose!'
...the above is hyperbole, yes. But the quote still smacks too much of self-justification after the fact, and is frankly a poor excuse.
O, and for the record, my comment on catching 2 scum was KosaKosa and Acension (if I didn't say this earlier).
KosaKosa voted Caex for hassling Acension and calling Caex a scumbag.
Thus it could be seen as a chainsaw. Given that it's in RVS, it is HIGHLY unlikely it is. Though, I won't discount it, but I'll put it on the backburner atm.
More self-justification. Very self-conscious, arent' you?
Vote: SharkFinnigan
@ced395
Tell me - what is your actual opinion of SharkFinnigan? And of Caex Kothar too, while you're at it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KosaKosa voted Caex for hassling Acension and calling Caex a scumbag.
Thus it could be seen as a chainsaw. Given that it's in RVS, it is HIGHLY unlikely it is. Though, I won't discount it, but I'll put it on the backburner atm.
How could you, or anybody, ever have any doubts about the un-seriousness of my RVS vote? That hot potato is yours, not mine.
Slightly trying to make me look suspicious without a single solid reason, especially on that last sentence, is only making you look worse.
Sarcasm aside, I feel like I have gotten something useful out of this whole exchange in uncovering scum Ecophagy, and really, how much more could you ask for on Day 1?
Sure. I wanted my abilities. I tried to get everyone to move the Clock for me in Seasons but died before it could happen. I decided this could be my second shot at that. I also figured that it would help in choosing Night actions. For example, the Cop may want to investigate Player X but Player X also claimed 1 red lock for an ability and the Cop ability just so happens to be red - and the Cop thinks Player X is scum. Conversely, say the Doc has to choose between protecting Players Y and Z. The Doc ability is Green and Player Z claimed no Green locks, but Player Y has two. Plus it would make it harder for the scum to falseclaim later on.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You seem rather interested in the flavour, aren't you? To the point of hassling Axelrod over an apparent flavour disconnect. Why, pray tell?
Actually, I did mean group consciousness a la Marx. I was simply trying to give an example to Axelrod of why it may be that the "heroes" are resigned to their fate.
I am interested in the flavor, yes. But Axelrod took it one step further. And that one step had nothing to do with the flavor. The first time I could let it slide. But he continued to post after that about it as if he was harping on the fact that he was utterly disappointed that he didn't like the flavor of his team.
I don't care if he liked the flavor of his team or not. The fact that he harped that he was Town multiple times is what caught my eye. I see it as a surreptitious way to earn a bit of Town cred without committing to anything. That's what I had a problem with. Even when he was answered by a couple of people as to why we are fighting (in regards to flavor), he continued to push it.
And as I've stated in this thread before, I'm not sure how much of it is RVS and how much of it is simply a scum tactic. I've resigned to the fact that it was probably RVS, which seemed to have ended with the Shark debacle. However, Axelrod is still on my radar.
And since RVS has ended...
Unvote
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Lynchpls.
Joyeux Anniversaire!
Oof. Guardian, sound the n00b alert, would you kindly?
I'm also really enjoying the flavor; but I read it slightly differently. We're predisposed to side with the prisoners since the point of view is that of the warden, who is a prisoner as well, and has ill feelings toward the seekers, et al. We don't know the whole story, and I think that the struggle between the "inmates" is much more gray than it might seem. I'm getting quite the Joss Whedon vibe, where you root for the possibly corrupt protagonists in Dollhouse.
Also, Vote: Xyre. Hello old friend
2. I'll go with jumpy. Felt like spurring convo and Eco voted unvoted and revoted me. Did you forget you voted me?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
This gives you one townie point, though.
{Magic: The RPG}
{Magic: The RPG}
Does this exchange bother anyone else here, or is it just me? Especially the AI part of this whole thing.
Vote: Xyre
Her last two lines seem forced into the conversation, as if she is thinking "Oh wait, I AM SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THE TOWN!"
FoS: AlphaInsidious
Still not sure where to place him ATM, his response to Xyre bugs me to no end and seems off as well.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I was just about to ask the same question.
No more of that, please.
It would have to be a ridiculously powerful Mafia team, or a whole snotload of Neutrals, to justify having less than 25% Mafia roles in any game.* Wrath_of_DoG punches myself stoutly on the nose.
Your confusion aside, if my part bothered you the most, why did you vote Xyre and not me?
There's something to be said for hypocrisy this blatant, and self-referenced.
The right to receive chocolate milk in your prison rations.
Well you certainly haven't told me this until now.
Vote WoD for his horribly botched attempt at offing me in Ozone.
I think Caex's following of the pressure on Shark seems forced. He should probably be looked into later.
Why do you assume the Neutral is an SK? From looking at just the win condition, "Invoke Cehenna" sounds like some kind of ritual performed that will instantly end the game. I have some ideas on possible role mechanics that may fit this bill but I'm not going to pursue that avenue of thought until later in the game.
As for the scum team:
I propose a mass Lock color claim.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The Neutral wincon, in my PoV, only makes sense considering a lone neutral and a single neutral faction, especially if you consider that Zinda would have to give the same skill (Invoke Cehenna) to two different players, which doesn't seem like him. 5 mafia setup seems fair, though.
But anyway, discussing the setup isn't really an issue right now. I guess we have to wait for either Axel or Shark to explain themselves before getting anywhere.
Meh, the RVS ended too soon. I love that part
Yes, yes I did. Sorry about that.
Unvote; Vote Axelrod
While your comment does bother me, it did not scream as scummy as Axelrod's comment did.
Seems like a rather useless waste of time to me. Much rather focus on other things.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
That's a bad idea.
{Magic: The RPG}
Sure, to eventually allow scum a guaranteed Mow Down meaning two NKs in a single night
Well, since my vote of Xyre is unrelated to my Axelrod response, I'm still not sure that you've made clear what you don't like about my response. Can you elaborate?
{Magic: The RPG}
As I said earlier, my Xyre vote was a mistake. That part was not the part that bothered me. The fact you didn't seem to have a connection to the prisoners as town is what bothered me. There is this disconnect with you and the prisoners that leads me to believe you may not be a prisoner at all. There is the chance in the back of my mind though you may actually be reading it as a person and not a player though, and Axelrod's comment was scummier and awkward in my mind that my vote was placed there instead.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Explain what you mean now.
It came off to me as an unnatural "me, too!" jump on to the potential pressuring of Shark for a reason I see as lacking.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You are right that I was critically evaluating the flavor as a "person", just relating it to other narratives I'm familiar with, and was not embodying my role at that time. Hard to do so when my character wouldn't see it as fiction eligible for dissection.
@WoD: fair point, it isn't less than 4 or more than 5.
Feel free to punch me in the nose.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
His reasoning for voting Kosakosa was not good, and his "2 down, 2 to go" thing looks an awful lot like inside info. Other players had already called him for it. I didn't really have anything to add, but I wanted to see him respond and then apply some kind of pressure. Poke him with a stick to see how he reacts and such.
{Magic: The RPG}
I see. Well, Iso already asked the main question I had in mind: Why assume it's a serial killer instead of a neutral of some sort? Especially when we know that the neutral's wincon, and it's not "kill everyone". It's more or less "survive until X happens, then you win".
The other question being why are you speculating about the set up, when the mod said it would, at best, not help, and then stating your suspicion for everyone to see?
I could see that as an oblique sort of way to get everyone speculating about the setup, which as we've established, will do more harm than good.
{Magic: The RPG}
If you think his tone for the being mean to a newer player was a joke, why didn't you also take the "caught 2 scum" as a joke? Even if it wasn't a joke, why is your instant assumption "Shark MUST know who the scum are, ergo, he is scum" instead of thinking he thought he actually found scum? No matter what angle you look at it from, your push on Shark makes little sense to me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not letting him slide with his explanation. But, I don't know how much of this is RVS mumbo jumbo and/or how much of it is "I'M FREAKING TOWN!" mumbo jumbo.
You have proposed a mass color claim, but look at this pretty skill Mafia have:
Meaning, as soon as they know someone's locks' color and Mow Down locks are unlocked, bam, two NKs.
I would then guess that Zinda gave them ways of investigating the color locks on town, but since we don't know how, it's better not giving up free info like that
Kosakosa told me to stop being mean to a newbie, and voted me, here:
Seems pretty obvious that's a joke.
Shark jumped on him with a serious post, here:
This, however, does not look like a joke.
{Magic: The RPG}
Even if you take into account that he misvoted it's just bad. The vote, FoS, and attack seem forced and like he is trying turn an ant hill into a mountain. Plus FoS.
Roles were randomized. Zinda stressed this in the signups.
Still, keep in mind that is entirely possible for role skills to have a color condition, thus making the theoretical "color cop" skill meaningful as either town or scum. Having it on scum would be just a nice bonus.
I just wanna bold my opinion of not giving info away like that on D1, especially locks' colors.
...oh. Somehow I missed that in the OP.
Fair enough.
@Caex: Because it still read like a joke to me. It was a response to a joke responding to a joke...I'm not sure where the disconnect is there for you, but I also can't find a scum motivation for you jumping on Shark with such awful reasoning - you know what does and doesn't make a good case, so I can't see you doing this as scum, but I expect better play from you a la Intrigue. So if you're town, tighten it up!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But, I'm TOWN. How could it be scummy for me, a member of the TOWN, to say I'm TOWN, when I am, in fact, a member of the TOWN? People in the TOWN have to stick together, you know, being TOWNIES and all.
Has anyone else noticed that the more you say TOWN the less it even looks like a real word?
Sarcasm aside, I feel like I have gotten something useful out of this whole exchange in uncovering scum Ecophagy, and really, how much more could you ask for on Day 1?
um, no?
Actually, no, 4 would be about right, if there was a SK, and depending on power levels and such. The fact Zinda referenced using points for role values would tend to support that. I wouldn't stake the game on it or anything, but if I was guessing, that would be my guess.
Spell it out for me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But it's so early. I'm not ready to end the day yet.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Stop being a sissy, we want more info because that means less chance to mislynch, which in return makes the following flavor so much more enjoyable.
Don't make me vote you, I already agree with ced and Caex
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
unvote, vote Caex
Mod: I will be V/LA this saturday and most of sunday for MTG States. The convention center wants $20/hr for internet, and that's just plain bull****.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
But as you are also doing suspicious stuff, I guess I can maintain my threat anyway LOL
I'm not disagreeing with you, but ever since I saw kpaca's brilliant cop claim at the beginning of D2 in Seasons, I tend to go over those "genuine" things with a grain of salt.
I've got a quick way to settle this:
Shark, was this a joke post?
{Magic: The RPG}
2.
Neutral wins on his own, thus, he can be seen as a "SK". The use of quotes is to distinguish this role from traditional SKs with kills. That's what I mean by SK.
3. Did I seriously believe he was scum? No. If I were serious, it's a poor chainsaw, and it's almost as weak as the first ~10 posts of the game (a-la vote the prev. person train).
But was it a joke? I am not inclined to say yes, because I knew my post would generate reaction and I wanted to see what's up.
4. Color lock claim is a bad idea. Too soon, could be a role abusing them. Play it safe.
Seeing how much reaction I generated with my post, I can definitely say we have something to start working with. I'll dig into it shortly.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
KosaKosa voted Caex for hassling Acension and calling Caex a scumbag.
Thus it could be seen as a chainsaw. Given that it's in RVS, it is HIGHLY unlikely it is. Though, I won't discount it, but I'll put it on the backburner atm.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
...what? He's not in this game?
Meh.
-----------------
Mmm.
.........
....I'd be inclined to say no.
Hello there again. Nice to see you're town.
...a rather reserved response there. Especially considering that there were at most what, 2 votes on him?
....the thought process in this post does not compute. At all.
....ah.
Mm. Tanarin is probably not mafia.
Are you actually reading the game? Because you don't seem to be paying much attention.
-------------------------------
Now more specific comments and questions:
@Arnnaria
I think you mean 'consensus'.
You seem rather interested in the flavour, aren't you? To the point of hassling Axelrod over an apparent flavour disconnect. Why, pray tell?
@SharkFinnigan
Heh. You know, this on it's own deserves pressure, but is nowhere even close to a real tell. However....
Translation of bolded: 'No, no, I wasn't really serious. I know it sounded scummy - but look, it wasn't a joke! I was trying to get reactions! It sounded scummy on purpose!'
...the above is hyperbole, yes. But the quote still smacks too much of self-justification after the fact, and is frankly a poor excuse.
More self-justification. Very self-conscious, arent' you?
Vote: SharkFinnigan
@ced395
Tell me - what is your actual opinion of SharkFinnigan? And of Caex Kothar too, while you're at it.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How could you, or anybody, ever have any doubts about the un-seriousness of my RVS vote? That hot potato is yours, not mine.
Slightly trying to make me look suspicious without a single solid reason, especially on that last sentence, is only making you look worse.
Unvote
Vote SharkFinnigan
Because being nervous, jumpy and self-concious are indicators of someone who has something to hide i.e. a bad guy.
I did. Oops.
Iso, can you expound on why you proposed this? Obviously, it's been revealed as an awful idea, but what were you trying to get from it?
Swing and a miss.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually, I did mean group consciousness a la Marx. I was simply trying to give an example to Axelrod of why it may be that the "heroes" are resigned to their fate.
I am interested in the flavor, yes. But Axelrod took it one step further. And that one step had nothing to do with the flavor. The first time I could let it slide. But he continued to post after that about it as if he was harping on the fact that he was utterly disappointed that he didn't like the flavor of his team.
I don't care if he liked the flavor of his team or not. The fact that he harped that he was Town multiple times is what caught my eye. I see it as a surreptitious way to earn a bit of Town cred without committing to anything. That's what I had a problem with. Even when he was answered by a couple of people as to why we are fighting (in regards to flavor), he continued to push it.
And as I've stated in this thread before, I'm not sure how much of it is RVS and how much of it is simply a scum tactic. I've resigned to the fact that it was probably RVS, which seemed to have ended with the Shark debacle. However, Axelrod is still on my radar.
And since RVS has ended...
Unvote