EBWODP: I might also ad that Axelroad's defensive stance to the accusation when he was under very little pressure (considering Shark was under more pressure) just ads fuel to the fire.
Shark's been spilling glaring newb tells (see: reference to mafiascum wiki page). I don't think the things you're bringing against him are valid in this situation.
Umm... mind enlightening me more on this? I hardly call him a newb (6 games here, 3 ongoing), and the fact he has at least once referenced playing on/browsing mafiascum. See here for one such post.
He also has a history of being in all three main player positions (Mafia, town, and neutral.) So why dismiss what he says so easily as "newb" tells?
Arnn brings up a good point: axel's reaction to being voted seems a bit unnatural - I'm willing to pass it off as RVS for now, but it might be worth running against other games in the archive.
...of course, if it were Cyan, I'd be suspicious if he didn't go bonkers when taking votes.
Re:Shark/kosa2: I'm getting two different reads here. The first is screaming newb tells, but the other is an almost grak-like smug superiority. Really not sure what to make of it, and I think that interaction is definitely worth watching - my gut says it isn't two arguing townies.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I understand that I am a danger to society. We've been here so long, there's nothing left for us out there.
Role-playing? You haven't been role-playing in any other posts I can see, what's up with that?
I would say I'm interested in SharkFinnigan at this point. He's kind of rubbing me the wrong way. Starting with the "2 down, 2 to go" post, which, sure, joke, but then this:
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
But was it a joke? I am not inclined to say yes, because I knew my post would generate reaction and I wanted to see what's up.
Feels all kinds of wrong. What do you mean you are not "inclined" to say yes? You are the one who made the post. Presumably, you know what you meant. And the whole "I did it to get reactions!" thing does not ring true. That was not the kind of post that appeared to be designed to get reactions. It looked like a total RVS joke post, except with this possible "slip" in it.
Are you saying you put the "slip" in on purpose? Because you knew people would jump on you for it? Surely not. But if not, what kind of reactions were you hoping to get?
My problem is if he's really just new (and/or, very young?) Which I don't really know. Seems like he's played a few games now.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Caex: Because it still read like a joke to me. It was a response to a joke responding to a joke...I'm not sure where the disconnect is there for you, but I also can't find a scum motivation for you jumping on Shark with such awful reasoning - you know what does and doesn't make a good case, so I can't see you doing this as scum, but I expect better play from you a la Intrigue. So if you're town, tighten it up!
I wanted to highlight this. I feel like there are a lot of veteran players in this game, who have specifically played with each other a lot and have many past experiences to draw from. And while this is certainly fine, the jovial nature of the thread so far (extending beyond RVS, where it usually ends) is making it a little difficult to effectively look for scum tells -- everything feels like a joke or an oblique reference to something that I, at least, wouldn't understand. Maybe such things will become clearer to me as we get further from RVS...could just be a bleed-through thing.
Right. This was less interesting than it was going to be.
See, I passed over Shark's "4 scum" post first time around, because I remembered reading that there were four scum in the OP when it was posted on Saturday. However, when Xyre brought it up, I noticed that it no longer said this.
Now, I'm not sure whether this is because the first post never said this (I may have been intoxicated when I first read it), or because Zinda spotted it and edited it out. The former definitely seems possible, since Seasons mafia had 20 randomized roles and 5 scum, but, if the latter is true, then Shark is probably scum, since he guessed there to be four mafia and would be right about it, which would be shady.
But, unless someone else can confirm that drunk me actually saw an info leak in the OP a few days ago, then I don't figure that there's anything in this.
Shark's a newb, but I don't see anything of concern aside from the "4 scum" thing (which I covered above). He's been thinking independently in-thread, rather than riding on others' coattails.
Unlike Caex, who has been. After I said I'd delay my response to (Xyre's vote on) Shark, he did so as well, except he doesn't seem to have given a good reason for this. Since then, he's made a number of posts about Shark, including railing on the "joke or not" thing, but so far doesn't appear to have voted for him, which is odd.
Shark's been spilling glaring newb tells (see: reference to mafiascum wiki page). I don't think the things you're bringing against him are valid in this situation.
It could be that Caex also believes that Shark is a newb, and is just trying to slap him on the hand for poor play.
As for the 4 scum thing, I unfortunately cannot confirm any info leak in the OP. I was away at a tournament on Saturday all day, so I didn't see it before it would have been edited out. It's going to take someone paying more attention than me, I guess.
The only thing that bothers me about Shark thusfar is that he's paying a lot of attention to the setup. In my experience, players don't usually begin speculating about the number of scum in the game until a Day or two in, at least...usually after a successful lynch or vig shot. He's also overly stressing the possibility of an SK, which, this early in the game especially, is worrisome. As I type this, I'm noticing that both of these things are timing issues -- he's doing things I've seen town players do, but he's not doing them at the right time in the game (at least, the "right" time as per my experience). I'm unsure of how worried I should be about this, but my gut is telling me that while Shark bears keeping an eye on, he's not of immediate concern.
I was going to comment on the mass color claim thing, but it seems as though everything I was going to say has already been said. I tend to post during the morning/afternoon EST (from work), and not much at all overnight, so I have a feeling this is going to happen a lot, given the activity overnight. Rage.
Oh well. Unvote. I'm going to start looking at Axel, and see if I can figure out what's a joke and what isn't. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his jokes and sarcasm were an attempt at hiding his scuminess, but I don't want to make a formal accusation without evidence.
I still don't see how I was trying that hard to speculate setup. It was not like: "looking at zindabads history of hosting." I think the overreaction by several to this is questionable.
KosaKosa: I was not even trying to put suspicion on you. Self-conscious much?
Tanarin: I'm glad you did your research. Town points to you.
I've played on MS for a year then a year hiatus and played in several here. See my sig to research and try to meta me. Most are scum games so feel free.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Sure. I wanted my abilities. I tried to get everyone to move the Clock for me in Seasons but died before it could happen. I decided this could be my second shot at that. I also figured that it would help in choosing Night actions. For example, the Cop may want to investigate Player X but Player X also claimed 1 red lock for an ability and the Cop ability just so happens to be red - and the Cop thinks Player X is scum. Conversely, say the Doc has to choose between protecting Players Y and Z. The Doc ability is Green and Player Z claimed no Green locks, but Player Y has two. Plus it would make it harder for the scum to falseclaim later on.
This is a significantly better answer than I was expecting. I'm not sure it all entirely makes sense, since you're assuming that abilities of similar types will have similar coloured locks, but it is an actual explanation.
I don't like the fact that you proposed a soft-claim of the worst possible type. It feels to me like Iso, master of the insane gambit, just tried really hard to "accidentally" out himself as town by not knowing the scums' abilities. However, that you had a plausible reason (not "to stimulate discussion") means that I might be being too paranoid. I go my eye on you though, son.
Shark's been spilling glaring newb tells (see: reference to mafiascum wiki page). I don't think the things you're bringing against him are valid in this situation.
Newb tells or not, the behaviour he exhibits often comes from a scum mindset, and - 38 posts into day 1 - we had to start somewhere.
Shark's a newb, but I don't see anything of concern aside from the "4 scum" thing (which I covered above). He's been thinking independently in-thread, rather than riding on others' coattails.
But Sharkisn't really a newb.
Unlike Caex, who has been. After I said I'd delay my response to (Xyre's vote on) Shark, he did so as well, except he doesn't seem to have given a good reason for this. Since then, he's made a number of posts about Shark, including railing on the "joke or not" thing, but so far doesn't appear to have voted for him, which is odd.
I agreed with you that I wanted to hear from Shark about the thing Xyre voted him for. I'm not going to not give my opinion just because someone else said it too.
I would also like to point out that I was right about Shark's "joke" post not being a joke.
As for the not voting thing: I've already explained to Iso why I was pushing Shark. My vote or lackthereof wasn't going to do anything I couldn't accomplish simply by questioning him.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I was providing a flavourful reason for the town cause, because you're right: it doesn't make all that much sense to fight to stay in prison.
It was the personalization that got me. Like, you said "I" understand that "I" am a danger to society. Not "well, according to the opening post, it appears we feel that we are dangers to society...." Or something like that. It was like you were identifying with that mentality. As a "character", which is unlike your other posts.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't like how Axel is trying to redirect attention back to Shark, especially after Arnnaria raised some very good points in 110-111, which were echoed by Charm in 113. Also, I think that it's perfectly obvious what Ecophagy meant, and Axel is really stretching by trying to make us see a scum mindset in his "role-play" line (which admittedly, I don't particularly like either...but I don't like it because I don't like role-playing, not because I think it's scummy).
As for the not voting thing: I've already explained to Iso why I was pushing Shark. My vote or lackthereof wasn't going to do anything I couldn't accomplish simply by questioning him.
Speaking of this, I just thought of a question I'd like Shark to answer:
@Shark: What are your opinions of Arnnaria, Iso, and myself?
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
With all these votes everywhere, who is getting lynched? I feel like Iso could be scum for trying to get us all mowed down from the color claim.
My name is Asenion. This is very different from Ascension. Asenion is the designation given to robots designed to follow the Three Laws of Robotics designed by Isaac Asimov. (The etymology of the word is a misspelling of Asimov's name that stuck and came into common usage.)
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
@Asenion: Apologies for misspelling your name. I knew it wasn't Ascension, but I think I still thought there was a "c" somewhere it. It's annoying when your name is misspelled (I have a 12-letter name that the ending people always mispronounce/flip the "i" and "e" in the name. So sorry again.
@Caex: Why those 3 specific players? I can see Iso as he is going after you while defending me, sort of? I don't get Arnnaria as he's elsewhere focusing on others.
Iso: Leaning town at this point, but not typical Iso (though it's impossible to meta Iso). But here's something: He, Caex, and myself played in Intrigue Mafia and that game had a mechanic where everyone started with coins and players had to spend coins to use abilities. poggydude made with his first post asking for a coin claim. He later was discovered as scum (after he replaced out). Claiming coins could mean that scum could off the player with the coins, preventing town from getting investigations. In the context of this game, Iso is asking for a color lock claim (in his first post) that he claims he did not notice the part about the Mow Down ability. Asking for a claim like that could be detrimental to town, as it was in Intrigue. Right now, he is playing like town, but that post does raise some eyebrows and should not be forgotten.
Arnnaria: I don't see anything scummy with him at all. I see his push for Axelrod completely acceptable and I do not like that at the moment either.
Caex: You feel very distanced and I think a bit too neutral in your pursuit of me. You give me town points, think my posts have been off, and seem to focus on specific points...
I would also like to point out that I was right about Shark's "joke" post not being a joke.
That does not really make me town or scum and it feels very off. I'll wait to hold firm judgement at this point, but at this point, slightly scum (not as bad as Axelrod or KosaKosa) but yea.
@Axelrod: Really, why do you think Ecophagy is scum? If you think he's scum, shouldn't you be trying to get everyone to lynch him? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from him?
@ced395: I learned chainsaw from MS and playing on IRC (I actually played IRC a bit longer than MS, but stopped both at the same time (June 2011). I've read the wiki, but not in a long time. Good thoughts though, but I'm interested in how my play experience has bearing on my alignment?
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
KosaKosa voted Caex for hassling Acension and calling Caex a scumbag.
Thus it could be seen as a chainsaw. Given that it's in RVS, it is HIGHLY unlikely it is. Though, I won't discount it, but I'll put it on the backburner atm.
I called him a scumbag, with an exclamation mark at the end. In what world would that be a serious address?
I've perceived the bolded part as you trying to put thorns onto my rose without valid arguments. What were you meaning then?
3. Did I seriously believe he was scum? No. If I were serious, it's a poor chainsaw, and it's almost as weak as the first ~10 posts of the game (a-la vote the prev. person train).
But was it a joke? I am not inclined to say yes, because I knew my post would generate reaction and I wanted to see what's up.
I could totally believe that you were joking as that was RVS if you haven't made the 4-scum reference. But if you were indeed joking, you either would have made fun of it instead of assuming a defensive position, or immediatly dismiss that post as RVS as soon as the suspicion landed on you. That excuse just doesn't add up.
Really? What's the significance of Eco roleplaying when it's in response to something you initiated in 28? Why can your question not be applied to your own post?
The difference is that when I'm referring to myself in my post, I'm referring to me - the player - who feels the flavor of this game is odd and would have preferred something different (in my oh so humorous style). I'm not "role-playing." Whereas in Eco's post when he was talking about himself, he appeared to be speaking in character - from his character's perspective.
Whether there is any significance in that remains to be seen. I will say there was, in fact, an actual reason for me asking the question beyond just kicks and giggles, though it was probably too much to hope that someone like Eco (if scum) would just walk right into a trap. Sometimes you just take a flyer on stuff though.
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
@Axelrod: Really, why do you think Ecophagy is scum? If you think he's scum, shouldn't you be trying to get everyone to lynch him? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from him?
I haven't actually decided he's scum yet, in case that was not blindingly obvious. I was pursuing a line, which may be a bit of a stretch, but I did not consider it a big deal, it's still early.
I don't even understand what you are saying about the distancing thing? Are you suggesting we might be scum together? Based on....?
I'm answering your questions but you didn't answer mine:
What do you mean you are not "inclined" to say yes? You are the one who made the post. Presumably, you know what you meant. And the whole "I did it to get reactions!" thing does not ring true. That was not the kind of post that appeared to be designed to get reactions. It looked like a total RVS joke post, except with this possible "slip" in it.
Are you saying you put the "slip" in on purpose? Because you knew people would jump on you for it? Surely not. But if not, what kind of reactions were you hoping to get?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
1. I never said that was a serious. It was RVS, most of the time it means little, though I've seen scum putting an RVS vote on one of their partners to establish distance later on in game. Hence, I am not going to put much stock into it, until I see something between you and Asenion later on.
2. Apparently I was not making myself clear with my response so let's try this again.
Vote: Non-serious.
Catching 2-scum: Non-serious joke meant to stir reaction.
Claiming 4 scum: An internalized expectation to this game. Did not believe it was a slip, though I can understand (now) how it can be perceived as a slip.
Summation of all parts: A non-serious post intended to generate reaction.
3.
Quote from "KosaKosa »
Slightly trying to make me look suspicious without a single solid reason, especially on that last sentence, is only making you look worse.
This part of your post was what drew me to change my stance a bit more. I never like to close any doors until I know for sure that a player is town or scum, hence I left it open with the bolded statement. Your quote here seemed like an over-reaction to that, hence me calling you "self-conscious". You were not even under extreme pressure, while I might be at L-3? I cannot tell. The game is moving fast so I am bound to miss some votes/unvotes.
@zindabad: Vote Count please
4.
I could totally believe that you were joking as that was RVS if you haven't made the 4-scum reference. But if you were indeed joking, you either would have made fun of it instead of assuming a defensive position, or immediately dismiss that post as RVS as soon as the suspicion landed on you. That excuse just doesn't add up.
I don't see how it's a good idea to try to joke and or dismiss it, given the reaction it generated. If I did either, I'd be crucified for it. My logic says to explain myself as I have nothing to hide. Dismissing it is absolutely a terrible idea, as doing so is scummier than defending it. I don't think I'm overly defensive.
1. Sorry I missed those questions. Again, the game is moving fairly rapidly and I spent most of it on the phone, so I've missed questions already, so here's your answers.
2. You are correct to believe the post was a RVS type post. I did feel the last part was meant to generate some reaction, though not to the extent that it's gotten. I expected some players to pick at me claiming I caught 2 scum this early. Maybe claiming I'm hypocritical for "chainsawing" KosaKosa (I defend Caex by attacking KosaKosa) while claiming KosaKosa was chainsawing Caex (KosaKosa defending Asenion by attacking Caex). I did not expect the "4-scum" to be the point of contention.
3. I think you could potentially setting up to distance yourself from Eco by bussing him. You don't want to start bussing him yet, but when other players start, you'll pull out some analysis and vote him in a spot to not catch the criticism of the masses and when he's lynched, you'd not be the immediate guess for bussing Eco.
This all assumes that both you and Eco are scum, though I doubt it's true yet. Again, we've reached (as of this post) 127 posts in 26 hours (~5 posts/hr) and every player has posted. That's actually very good. So I hope the activity keeps up, but I still think it's too soon for me to try to link 2 players together on a scumteam.
I don't recall trying to guessing setup, but I was not intending to mod-game the setup, but it's pretty clear that a standard game of this size would have 4-5 scum. Given 1 confirmed neutral who wins alone, I thought 4 was the most likely and took it as truth at this point. And since the neutral isnt a survivor, so I'm calling it a "SK" (though I do not know if it can kill or not).
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
I don't see how it's a good idea to try to joke and or dismiss it, given the reaction it generated. If I did either, I'd be crucified for it. My logic says to explain myself as I have nothing to hide. Dismissing it is absolutely a terrible idea, as doing so is scummier than defending it. I don't think I'm overly defensive.
I disagree. This is a fairly pro-game, and as you can see, most players regard you as being an experienced player which wouldn't give out a tell like that.
Taking that into account, in my opinion a joke would be seen as a normal part of the RVS, but your serious reaction startled people up.
@Caex: Why those 3 specific players? I can see Iso as he is going after you while defending me, sort of? I don't get Arnnaria as he's elsewhere focusing on others.
Several reasons: First, because we were all in Intrigue so I figured it'd be easier for you to give accurate reads.
Second was the point you brought up: Three different perspectives, and from players you're familiar with. Arnnaria was more or less ignoring the case. Iso was defending you from me. I was attacking you. I wanted a broad spectrum of reads from you.
Iso: Leaning town at this point, but not typical Iso (though it's impossible to meta Iso). But here's something: He, Caex, and myself played in Intrigue Mafia and that game had a mechanic where everyone started with coins and players had to spend coins to use abilities. poggydude made with his first post asking for a coin claim. He later was discovered as scum (after he replaced out). Claiming coins could mean that scum could off the player with the coins, preventing town from getting investigations. In the context of this game, Iso is asking for a color lock claim (in his first post) that he claims he did not notice the part about the Mow Down ability. Asking for a claim like that could be detrimental to town, as it was in Intrigue. Right now, he is playing like town, but that post does raise some eyebrows and should not be forgotten.
This seems very fence-sitty to me: "Iso is town, but it's not typical Iso, but it's impossible to meta him". So why say it at all?
And "But let's not forget that poggy did a similar thing in Intrigue so that could be scummy". You typed up a lot more about how the mass claim thing was suspicious than about why you believe Iso to be town.
Arnnaria: I don't see anything scummy with him at all. I see his push for Axelrod completely acceptable and I do not like that at the moment either.
Sure. That was more or less my read on Arnnaria.
Caex: You feel very distanced and I think a bit too neutral in your pursuit of me. You give me town points, think my posts have been off, and seem to focus on specific points...
Neutral in what way? I only gave you one town point because I liked one of your responses. But there are a plenty of things I haven't liked, hence me continuing to question you.
Also: What do you mean by "distanced"?
That does not really make me town or scum and it feels very off.
I disagree. I think it's tilted more toward "scummy" than "townie" on the spectrum of such things.
Voting for Kosakosa for the reason you did was going to catch a lot of attention, which you admitted to knowing. But if you knew it was going to get attention, why did you think it would catch of a lot of attention if it wasn't scummy or townie?
EBWOP
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
1. I never said that was a serious. It was RVS, most of the time it means little, though I've seen scum putting an RVS vote on one of their partners to establish distance later on in game. Hence, I am not going to put much stock into it, until I see something between you and Asenion later on.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
EBWOP
Not directly, but c'mon. You said this: You said it wasn't a joke right here. A post which wasn't a joke, intended to stir up a reacon. How is that not a serious post?
I just noticed this was Shark responding to something entirely different than what I thought it was. Feel free to ignore that.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I disagree. This is a fairly pro-game, and as you can see, most players regard you as being an experienced player which wouldn't give out a tell like that.
Taking that into account, in my opinion a joke would be seen as a normal part of the RVS, but your serious reaction startled people up.
So did you think my vote for you was serious? If so then I can see that. The reaction began with the 4-scum claim. If you don't think my post was not serious, then that doesn't make sense to me.
This seems very fence-sitty to me: "Iso is town, but it's not typical Iso, but it's impossible to meta him". So why say it at all?
And "But let's not forget that poggy did a similar thing in Intrigue so that could be scummy". You typed up a lot more about how the mass claim thing was suspicious than about why you believe Iso to be town.
Iso's been playing town with his pursuit of you. His MC play does not seem Iso-like. Given I've seen a scum use that play it's suspect. I am explaining context for those who did not play/spectate that game.
Neutral in what way? I only gave you one town point because I liked one of your responses. But there are a plenty of things I haven't liked, hence me continuing to question you.
Also: What do you mean by "distanced"?
I disagree. I think it's tilted more toward "scummy" than "townie" on the spectrum of such things.
You give me town points in one post, don't like me in another, and go after something I see as a neutral read at best.
Not directly, but c'mon. You said this: You said it wasn't a joke right here. A post which wasn't a joke, intended to stir up a reacon. How is that not a serious post?
I think of a joke as a ha-ha thing. I don't see my post as trying to make a joke. Light-hearted may be a better word. I think it's light-hearted. The reaction was again geared towards reacting to catching 2 scum and the reasoning for it, not what it ended up being (4 scum).
Voting for Kosakosa for the reason you did was going to catch a lot of attention, which you admitted to knowing. But if you knew it was going to get attention, why did you think it would catch of a lot of attention if it wasn't scummy or townie?
Still RVS, I figured most would not take it too seriously.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
With all these votes everywhere, who is getting lynched? I feel like Iso could be scum for trying to get us all mowed down from the color claim.
How many games have you played?
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
Vote: Non-serious.
Catching 2-scum: Non-serious joke meant to stir reaction.
Claiming 4 scum: An internalized expectation to this game. Did not believe it was a slip, though I can understand (now) how it can be perceived as a slip.
Summation of all parts: A non-serious post intended to generate reaction.
What reaction were you expecting? You must have expected something in particular, and "any reaction is a good reaction" ain't usually townie thinking. So what did you want to get?
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
I don't see how it's a good idea to try to joke and or dismiss it, given the reaction it generated. If I did either, I'd be crucified for it. My logic says to explain myself as I have nothing to hide. Dismissing it is absolutely a terrible idea, as doing so is scummier than defending it. I don't think I'm overly defensive.
Do you usually give this much thought to how things will appear to others when you're town?
@Xyre: Expecting maybe some questioning like this right now. If I can get a scum player to jump on me for terrible reasoning, over-reacting to a lighthearted post, I'll take the pressure to catch them.
And no, I do not give that much thought into my posts. "This sounds good, lets post this." Unless it's an analysis, then I do try to push it. All I want as town is for everyone to not twist my words and have a clear understanding my mindset, hence I'll repeat stuff for clarity.
Intrigue is my only town-game here thus far that I can direct you towards if you want to see for yourself. D2 I was under pressure and then D3 I was town. So you can see me there if you are bored and you think I am behaving similarly or not so.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
So you don't put much thought in your posts. Have a plausible (in your eyes) defense about the "misinterpretation" of your joke posts. But you still feel enough pressure to ask the mod for a votecount?
So he's townie because he's been persuing someone attacking you?
His MC play does not seem Iso-like. Given I've seen a scum use that play it's suspect. I am explaining context for those who did not play/spectate that game.
Fair enough.
But the overall fact that you're saying he gets town points for questioning your detractors while simultaneously not playing like Iso and doing a suspicious MC thing is just bad.
You give me town points in one post, don't like me in another, and go after something I see as a neutral read at best.
I gave you town points for a single post. I've knocked the things you've said in a lot more than one. I don't see what I'm going after you for as a neutral thing. Hence me going after you for it.
I think of a joke as a ha-ha thing. I don't see my post as trying to make a joke. Light-hearted may be a better word. I think it's light-hearted. The reaction was again geared towards reacting to catching 2 scum and the reasoning for it, not what it ended up being (4 scum).
Hm. See below.
Still RVS, I figured most would not take it too seriously.
But if you didn't think anyone would take it seriously, why should it have generated any reacton at all, something you specifically said it was for?
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
So you don't put much thought in your posts. Have a plausible (in your eyes) defense about the "misinterpretation" of your joke posts. But you still feel enough pressure to ask the mod for a votecount?
I find myself agreeing with Arnnaria, Xyre. SF apparently thinks he is close to claim range. I haven't counter, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have 8 or 9 votes on him: he's being nervous and scared.
You stated in the sign up post that you have read through the glossary and this is taken from the glossary:
"RVS: Random Vote Section. The very beginning of the game where people make votes and jokes to start discussion since they have nothing much else to go on. In games with experienced players this sometimes simply doesn’t happen. When it ends is arbitrary."
So did you lie in the sign up post or are you feigning ignorance?
If you want to be lazy, it could mean a couple of things. Acc. to the Hebrew Bible, it's where various cultists and apostates sacrificed children to their gods. In a bit more modern context, it's usually regarded as some variety of Hell or other.
What exactly this has to do with anything is beyond me, but I figured I'd contribute my knowledge =)
Was this meant to be a fluff post? You highlight something but come to no conclusion. It feels like you are trying to look busy.
Well, screw that. You may be content with your miserable lot in life, but I was hoping for something actually worth fighting for. Who wants to "win" for the reward of staying in prison?
Vote: Ecophagy
(note: I quite like the story Zinda is telling. Quality stuff. I'm just annoyed about what side I am apparently on.)
People appear to be making a to do over Axelrod and this whole flavor issue. This reads to me as just discussing flavor, not really a big deal, IMO.
Again knowing this has been addressed and your follow up had good reasoning. I am, however, against a mass color claim due to the Mow Down ability that the scum have.
The Neutral wincon, in my PoV, only makes sense considering a lone neutral and a single neutral faction, especially if you consider that Zinda would have to give the same skill (Invoke Cehenna) to two different players, which doesn't seem like him. 5 mafia setup seems fair, though.
But anyway, discussing the setup isn't really an issue right now. I guess we have to wait for either Axel or Shark to explain themselves before getting anywhere.
O, and for the record, my comment on catching 2 scum was KosaKosa and Acension (if I didn't say this earlier).
KosaKosa voted Caex for hassling Acension and calling Caex a scumbag.
Thus it could be seen as a chainsaw. Given that it's in RVS, it is HIGHLY unlikely it is. Though, I won't discount it, but I'll put it on the backburner atm.
I'm very confused by your interactions at this point. I read your initial posts as RVS posts but you are now confirming that they were not jokes and you were looking for reactions. Have you detailed what you got and what your reads are from these reactions?
Umm... mind enlightening me more on this? I hardly call him a newb (6 games here, 3 ongoing), and the fact he has at least once referenced playing on/browsing mafiascum. See here for one such post.
He also has a history of being in all three main player positions (Mafia, town, and neutral.) So why dismiss what he says so easily as "newb" tells?
I agree that Shark is not a noob and since you have also drawn that conclusion, what do you make of his initial posts?
Arnn brings up a good point: axel's reaction to being voted seems a bit unnatural - I'm willing to pass it off as RVS for now, but it might be worth running against other games in the archive.
...of course, if it were Cyan, I'd be suspicious if he didn't go bonkers when taking votes.
Re:Shark/kosa2: I'm getting two different reads here. The first is screaming newb tells, but the other is an almost grak-like smug superiority. Really not sure what to make of it, and I think that interaction is definitely worth watching - my gut says it isn't two arguing townies.
What newb tells are you getting from Shark? I agree with Kosa2 and his posts. They come across as uppity and certainly not that of a newb.
I still don't see how I was trying that hard to speculate setup. It was not like: "looking at zindabads history of hosting." I think the overreaction by several to this is questionable.
KosaKosa: I was not even trying to put suspicion on you. Self-conscious much?
Tanarin: I'm glad you did your research. Town points to you.
I've played on MS for a year then a year hiatus and played in several here. See my sig to research and try to meta me. Most are scum games so feel free.
Re: The bolded. I didn't see this (2 down, 2 to go) as a slip, so the only other thing it could be is speculation. You also confirmed it was not a joke post so what else are folks supposed to draw from it?
I don't like how Axel is trying to redirect attention back to Shark, especially after Arnnaria raised some very good points in 110-111, which were echoed by Charm in 113. Also, I think that it's perfectly obvious what Ecophagy meant, and Axel is really stretching by trying to make us see a scum mindset in his "role-play" line (which admittedly, I don't particularly like either...but I don't like it because I don't like role-playing, not because I think it's scummy).
With all these votes everywhere, who is getting lynched? I feel like Iso could be scum for trying to get us all mowed down from the color claim.
My name is Asenion. This is very different from Ascension. Asenion is the designation given to robots designed to follow the Three Laws of Robotics designed by Isaac Asimov. (The etymology of the word is a misspelling of Asimov's name that stuck and came into common usage.)
Again, you claimed to have read the Welcome thread. This really feels like you are trying hard to appear new to the game.
I'm really disliking his two most recent responses.
Why?
First I would like to Unvote Vitek as RVS is now over.
I haven't liked Sharks post up to this point, but I would like to hear what reads he was able to establish with his earlier joke posts before voting him.
In my experience, players don't usually begin speculating about the number of scum in the game until a Day or two in, at least...usually after a successful lynch or vig shot.
Really? Because I've been in numerous games where people have been speculating on the scumteam on Day 1.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've played on MS for a year then a year hiatus and played in several here. See my sig to research and try to meta me. Most are scum games so feel free.
This rubs me the wrong way. I don't like it when the instant response is, "META ME! LOOK! GO!"
This is a significantly better answer than I was expecting. I'm not sure it all entirely makes sense, since you're assuming that abilities of similar types will have similar coloured locks, but it is an actual explanation.
I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I was suggesting that; just because a player might be town doesn't mean they'd all have the same ability types and colors.
Quote from Ecophagy »
I don't like the fact that you proposed a soft-claim of the worst possible type. It feels to me like Iso, master of the insane gambit, just tried really hard to "accidentally" out himself as town by not knowing the scums' abilities. However, that you had a plausible reason (not "to stimulate discussion") means that I might be being too paranoid. I go my eye on you though, son.
With all these votes everywhere, who is getting lynched? I feel like Iso could be scum for trying to get us all mowed down from the color claim.
Do you plan to contribute any original content to the thread? Because this reads to me like you're just regurgitating Eco's suspicion of me.
The fact that the rest of this post is just talking about your name...give us something solid. Some analysis. We don't instantly decide who's lynched at the beginning of a Day. It takes discussion to make that choice, and when you don't contribute, it sends up red flags. So, why aren't you contributing and why are you so eager to see someone lynched?
I can see Iso as he is going after you while defending me, sort of?
I'm not defending you, I just didn't like Caex's jump on you.
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
Iso: Leaning town at this point, but not typical Iso (though it's impossible to meta Iso). But here's something: He, Caex, and myself played in Intrigue Mafia and that game had a mechanic where everyone started with coins and players had to spend coins to use abilities. poggydude made with his first post asking for a coin claim. He later was discovered as scum (after he replaced out). Claiming coins could mean that scum could off the player with the coins, preventing town from getting investigations. In the context of this game, Iso is asking for a color lock claim (in his first post) that he claims he did not notice the part about the Mow Down ability. Asking for a claim like that could be detrimental to town, as it was in Intrigue. Right now, he is playing like town, but that post does raise some eyebrows and should not be forgotten.
Really? If your suspicion of me is meta-based, then I suggest you go read some more Iso games before you make such an uninformed call.
The difference is that when I'm referring to myself in my post, I'm referring to me - the player - who feels the flavor of this game is odd and would have preferred something different (in my oh so humorous style). I'm not "role-playing." Whereas in Eco's post when he was talking about himself, he appeared to be speaking in character - from his character's perspective.
Whether there is any significance in that remains to be seen. I will say there was, in fact, an actual reason for me asking the question beyond just kicks and giggles, though it was probably too much to hope that someone like Eco (if scum) would just walk right into a trap.
I think you're really reaching with this. What did you hope to gain from this? Do you really perceive scumEco to be that much of a threat?
Quote from Axelrod »
I don't even understand what you are saying about the distancing thing? Are you suggesting we might be scum together? Based on....?
This, however, rubs me as self-conscious. Vote Axelrod
So you don't put much thought in your posts. Have a plausible (in your eyes) defense about the "misinterpretation" of your joke posts. But you still feel enough pressure to ask the mod for a votecount?
These things don't add up.
While I'm wary about Shark, I want to see Axel hang right now.
I find myself agreeing with Arnnaria, Xyre. SF apparently thinks he is close to claim range. I haven't counter, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have 8 or 9 votes on him: he's being nervous and scared.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was talking about the seriousness of your (over)reaction when pressured on a supposed RVS vote, not the vote itself. The vote is now mainly irrelevant, as the reaction you had afterwards is making more difference than the post per se.
That is entirely the wrong answer to that question. A quick check of your signup post shows that you claim to have no experience, and your posts are backing that up. You could stand to lay off the smug snake attitude, because that's the kind of BS that let scum lurk through to perfect wins if it's widespread enough.
Re: Eron: that's the kind of smug attitude I was talking about. Most of his newb tells have just been him not being familiar with what to do in certain situations. More gut than much else ATM.
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Because Shark's a terrible player, but I believe he's a townie.
Quote from SharkFinnigan »
@Xyre: Expecting maybe some questioning like this right now. If I can get a scum player to jump on me for terrible reasoning, over-reacting to a lighthearted post, I'll take the pressure to catch them.
He genuinely believes this is a thing that might happen. Clearly, he doesn't have the experience to know that playing like an idiot to bait a scum never works. And I don't believe he's experienced enough to try this as a scum - as Arnnaria himself noted, Shark's twitchy despite not being anywhere near lynch.
There are two explanations for being twitchy before a lynch: a player being so scummy it hurts, or a player being so awful it hurts. I'm surprised several of you really think it's the former. I'll go read Intrigue to confirm this read, but this is the best explanation.
Which is why Arnnaria's post caught my eye -
Quote from Arnnaria »
So you don't put much thought in your posts. Have a plausible (in your eyes) defense about the "misinterpretation" of your joke posts. But you still feel enough pressure to ask the mod for a votecount?
These things don't add up.
All three of those are obviously behaviors of an inexperienced player, but he sells (1) and (2) like they're inconsistent with (3), and then rather than asking Shark about the inconsistency or voting him, he sticks in the vague-leading remark at the end to nudge people to jump on/stick on Shark - I assume because a scum would figure if he's this shaky, he'll crack under any more pressure.
Did I miss anything here?
(Briefly skimming Arn's posts, it seems like he tried to do something very similar to Axelrod re: the flavor debate in posts 110-111; strong accusations that peter out.)
That is entirely the wrong answer to that question. A quick check of your signup post shows that you claim to have no experience, and your posts are backing that up. You could stand to lay off the smug snake attitude, because that's the kind of BS that let scum lurk through to perfect wins if it's widespread enough.
Re: Eron: that's the kind of smug attitude I was talking about. Most of his newb tells have just been him not being familiar with what to do in certain situations. More gut than much else ATM.
Although I have enough experience with IRL games, this is my very first online one. Nevertheless, I have made my Mafia game homework pretty decently. There, happy? -__-
This rubs me the wrong way. I don't like it when the instant response is, "META ME! LOOK! GO!"
I find this statement ridiculous, coming from you, Iso.
You're clearly using it as a point against him. Isn't "META ME! LOOK! GO!" generally your default response to everything?
And I don't believe that you didn't read the OP before suggesting your mass colour claim, because however overstated I feel your general skill level is, you're at least reasonably thorough in reading, for the most part.
@Eron - It was indeed a random vote, but I'm pretty happy to leave it on him, after that.
All three of those are obviously behaviors of an inexperienced player, but he sells (1) and (2) like they're inconsistent with (3), and then rather than asking Shark about the inconsistency or voting him, he sticks in the vague-leading remark at the end to nudge people to jump on/stick on Shark - I assume because a scum would figure if he's this shaky, he'll crack under any more pressure.
Did I miss anything here?
(Briefly skimming Arn's posts, it seems like he tried to do something very similar to Axelrod re: the flavor debate in posts 110-111; strong accusations that peter out.)
I think that the post on Shark was just generally a cobble of the scummy things he's been doing, highlighted by asking for a vote count. I'm not on the Shark wagon, but I wanted to bring to light that his call for a votecount was extremely scummy because nobody else had picked up on it yet.
I'm pretty much on the Axelrod wagon. I don't like his early game. I don't like how defensive he's getting. I don't much care for his explanations of both previous votes. However, I was just wanting to see how much he would squirm under the pressure when he had very little votes. Now that there seems to be considerable support for Axel's scum play, there's no need to use the thumbscrews anymore.
I think that the post on Shark was just generally a cobble of the scummy things he's been doing, highlighted by asking for a vote count. I'm not on the Shark wagon, but I wanted to bring to light that his call for a votecount was extremely scummy because nobody else had picked up on it yet.
I'm pretty much on the Axelrod wagon. I don't like his early game. I don't like how defensive he's getting. I don't much care for his explanations of both previous votes. However, I was just wanting to see how much he would squirm under the pressure when he had very little votes. Now that there seems to be considerable support for Axel's scum play, there's no need to use the thumbscrews anymore.
Vote Axelrod
EBWODP: "both previous votes" should read "both previous issues"
That is entirely the wrong answer to that question. A quick check of your signup post shows that you claim to have no experience, and your posts are backing that up. You could stand to lay off the smug snake attitude, because that's the kind of BS that let scum lurk through to perfect wins if it's widespread enough.
Re: Eron: that's the kind of smug attitude I was talking about. Most of his newb tells have just been him not being familiar with what to do in certain situations. More gut than much else ATM.
I don't know if other people are doing this but I've mixed up Kosa2 and Asenion a lot. In the sign ups Asenion was very new player-ish but Kosa didn't come across the same way. I'm definitely getting the smarmy attitude from Kosa. I think he's a DRey gimmick.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
People responded to me, interesting. This is my first game. When I ask why you are voting, it's because I want to know what is motivating you to vote. When I ask who we are lynching, it's because I've lost count of all the votes and I don't know how close we are to reaching a majority.
I'm sorry if I'm not contributing much, there are a lot of people talking and I'm not sure who is the mafia yet.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Nope, I've learned since then. I know how to defend myself now.
Also, keeping your vote on me for baseless speculation about whether or not I thoroughly read the OP is weak at best.
It's not, however, as weak as bandwaggoning me for being too "self-conscious."
Quote from Arnnaria »
I'm pretty much on the Axelrod wagon. I don't like his early game. I don't like how defensive he's getting. I don't much care for his explanations of both previous votes. However, I was just wanting to see how much he would squirm under the pressure when he had very little votes. Now that there seems to be considerable support for Axel's scum play, there's no need to use the thumbscrews anymore.
I will give you a tip. For future reference. I'm mellower now than I used to be (a bit) but one thing that is still liable to get me to blow my top is being accused of being "too defensive" when someone comes at me.
Seriously, has there ever been a dumber accusation in all the game of Mafia? Like, you can defend yourself, sure, but you better not be too defensive about it. Because, man, that's so scummy.
I'm going to go ahead and give everyone a tiny window into my brain now, at excruciating length, and at the risk of *horror* being accused again of being too defensive, because I don't know how many votes I have but it is more than a few and whatever. I actually have time to spend on this game at the moment, which is usnsual for me for the past year.
It's like this:
So, I'm reading the opening posts. The story. It's cool. I'm digging it. I like all the set up. I like this warden character. I like the guy who has got caught on purpose. Then I get to the end where the actual game part is "set up" and I'm like, Wait, what? I didn't even get it the first time I read it. So I read it again, and I'm like, so, the "Town" are the mindless idiots who want to stay in the prison, and the "Mafia" are the rebellious freedom fighters?
Ew.
This was what inspired my initial posts. Now, I don't actually care about this. I am not, in fact, angry about this. It does not affect how I am playing the game. It's just weird to me. That, at least thematically, I am playing for the privilege of staying in prison that is apparently sucking my magical energy out of me. So I make, what I think is a humorous post. You know, with the and everything.
I will confess that there was a secondary purpose to the post (you will see that there is often more than one purpose to a post that I make). I was genuinely curious if anyone else had the same kind of reaction as me from reading those opening posts. And the point here is that, those having similar reactions would by definition be other members of the Town. The Mafia would obviously not have that kind of reaction. Could they fake such a reaction? Sure. But I thought it slightly less likely a Mafia would jump forward and try to barn what I was saying. And I could at least make a judgement call about whether their reaction sounded natural or not. I was also anticipating that many, if not most, people wouldn't even have read all the flavor text stuff (it's kind of long), and even if they had might not have fully understood it (I had to read it twice), and might not even know what I was talking about at all.
I got like three reactions, to that post. The one I liked came from ced in #31. "The uninformed Majority, the best majority...." which is kind of what I was looking for. He's acknowledging that the Town appears at least flavorfully to be kind of stupid in this game. Arnnaria also responded, and my response to that post is kind of neutral. If felt like Arn maybe didn't understand what the flavor actually was. So, call it a push. And I got one more interesting response. This was the one from Eco. in #38. The one where he says, "I" understand that "I" am a danger to society, etc.
That post was interesting to me for 2 reasons. One, because of what I said previously about how I thought normal people would react, and two because his personalization seemed to stick out a bit. I was almost like he was saying that his "character" i.e. his role-pm, was telling him that this was how he felt.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my role PM says nothing about my character's feelings. It is styled as a Dossier from the Mancers about who I am and how I came to be in the jail. It's very impersonal.
So, I decided to prod Eco., just a bit, to see what he would say. That was my next post where I questioned him about "role-playing" (still in a humorous way, mind you). Where I "re-voted" him, which was my way of hinting that there was something slightly more to the vote this time than the first vote, which was truly just a RVS vote. What I really wanted to see was if he might "slip" and claim that he got that stuff about feeling like he was a danger to society and was better off in the jail from his actual role-pm. I mean, who knows, right? At that point it would be an open question as to whether anyone else claimed that their roles had stuff in them about their characters and their feelings about the Atagan, but it could lead to something productive. So, gentile prods. I questioned him about his role-playing. Because, normally when you role play, it's because of, you know, your role, not because of something written in the opening post.
Eco. eventually responded saying he was just giving a flavorful reason why we (as Town) are doing what we are doing. Which, you know, could be true. It's the reason given in the opening post. Which he's just saying back, but making it more personal. I still find that a bit odd, but that's about it. He certainly didn't fall into the potential trap.
And that was pretty much that.
Except now I have to deal with people saying I'm too self-conscious and suspicious-looking for implying I'm Town this game. And defensive. Joy.
This has been your tiny window into my Mafia brain. Be careful asking me why I do anything. It's liable to net you a response like this one if you're not careful.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's what I said about the meta! I bet you only came to that because of my brazilian flag over there
On a serious note, the points Arnnaria is making about Axelrod seems relevant. I've also noticed that his attempt to divert attention for Shark at #114 passed largely unnoticed. Only Silversihhe called it at #120.
I will confess that there was a secondary purpose to the post (you will see that there is often more than one purpose to a post that I make). I was genuinely curious if anyone else had the same kind of reaction as me from reading those opening posts. And the point here is that, those having similar reactions would by definition be other members of the Town. The Mafia would obviously not have that kind of reaction. Could they fake such a reaction? Sure. But I thought it slightly less likely a Mafia would jump forward and try to barn what I was saying. And I could at least make a judgement call about whether their reaction sounded natural or not. I was also anticipating that many, if not most, people wouldn't even have read all the flavor text stuff (it's kind of long), and even if they had might not have fully understood it (I had to read it twice), and might not even know what I was talking about at all.
Axel clearly doesn't remember cold war mafia, where the town were the bloody commies and the mafia were the glorious democracy-loving americans.
That being said, The entirety of his long-winded rant makes a lot of sense to me. It took me more than a few tries to figure out what the whole flavor premise was. Not to say that it's bad, merely that it's not as simple as it may seem. Axel gets townie points for the assessment, and iso looks a lot worse for trying to play it off.
Unvote, Vote Iso
Opportunistic scum is opportunistic.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Umm... mind enlightening me more on this? I hardly call him a newb (6 games here, 3 ongoing), and the fact he has at least once referenced playing on/browsing mafiascum. See here for one such post.
He also has a history of being in all three main player positions (Mafia, town, and neutral.) So why dismiss what he says so easily as "newb" tells?
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...of course, if it were Cyan, I'd be suspicious if he didn't go bonkers when taking votes.
Re:Shark/kosa2: I'm getting two different reads here. The first is screaming newb tells, but the other is an almost grak-like smug superiority. Really not sure what to make of it, and I think that interaction is definitely worth watching - my gut says it isn't two arguing townies.
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Nevertheless, onwards! And to you, Eco:
Maaaaaybe, but explain this!
Role-playing? You haven't been role-playing in any other posts I can see, what's up with that?
I would say I'm interested in SharkFinnigan at this point. He's kind of rubbing me the wrong way. Starting with the "2 down, 2 to go" post, which, sure, joke, but then this:
Feels all kinds of wrong. What do you mean you are not "inclined" to say yes? You are the one who made the post. Presumably, you know what you meant. And the whole "I did it to get reactions!" thing does not ring true. That was not the kind of post that appeared to be designed to get reactions. It looked like a total RVS joke post, except with this possible "slip" in it.
Are you saying you put the "slip" in on purpose? Because you knew people would jump on you for it? Surely not. But if not, what kind of reactions were you hoping to get?
My problem is if he's really just new (and/or, very young?) Which I don't really know. Seems like he's played a few games now.
I wanted to highlight this. I feel like there are a lot of veteran players in this game, who have specifically played with each other a lot and have many past experiences to draw from. And while this is certainly fine, the jovial nature of the thread so far (extending beyond RVS, where it usually ends) is making it a little difficult to effectively look for scum tells -- everything feels like a joke or an oblique reference to something that I, at least, wouldn't understand. Maybe such things will become clearer to me as we get further from RVS...could just be a bleed-through thing.
It could be that Caex also believes that Shark is a newb, and is just trying to slap him on the hand for poor play.
As for the 4 scum thing, I unfortunately cannot confirm any info leak in the OP. I was away at a tournament on Saturday all day, so I didn't see it before it would have been edited out. It's going to take someone paying more attention than me, I guess.
The only thing that bothers me about Shark thusfar is that he's paying a lot of attention to the setup. In my experience, players don't usually begin speculating about the number of scum in the game until a Day or two in, at least...usually after a successful lynch or vig shot. He's also overly stressing the possibility of an SK, which, this early in the game especially, is worrisome. As I type this, I'm noticing that both of these things are timing issues -- he's doing things I've seen town players do, but he's not doing them at the right time in the game (at least, the "right" time as per my experience). I'm unsure of how worried I should be about this, but my gut is telling me that while Shark bears keeping an eye on, he's not of immediate concern.
I was going to comment on the mass color claim thing, but it seems as though everything I was going to say has already been said. I tend to post during the morning/afternoon EST (from work), and not much at all overnight, so I have a feeling this is going to happen a lot, given the activity overnight. Rage.
Oh well. Unvote. I'm going to start looking at Axel, and see if I can figure out what's a joke and what isn't. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his jokes and sarcasm were an attempt at hiding his scuminess, but I don't want to make a formal accusation without evidence.
KosaKosa: I was not even trying to put suspicion on you. Self-conscious much?
Tanarin: I'm glad you did your research. Town points to you.
I've played on MS for a year then a year hiatus and played in several here. See my sig to research and try to meta me. Most are scum games so feel free.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
This is a significantly better answer than I was expecting. I'm not sure it all entirely makes sense, since you're assuming that abilities of similar types will have similar coloured locks, but it is an actual explanation.
I don't like the fact that you proposed a soft-claim of the worst possible type. It feels to me like Iso, master of the insane gambit, just tried really hard to "accidentally" out himself as town by not knowing the scums' abilities. However, that you had a plausible reason (not "to stimulate discussion") means that I might be being too paranoid. I go my eye on you though, son.
Newb tells or not, the behaviour he exhibits often comes from a scum mindset, and - 38 posts into day 1 - we had to start somewhere.
I was providing a flavourful reason for the town cause, because you're right: it doesn't make all that much sense to fight to stay in prison.
I agreed with you that I wanted to hear from Shark about the thing Xyre voted him for. I'm not going to not give my opinion just because someone else said it too.
I would also like to point out that I was right about Shark's "joke" post not being a joke.
As for the not voting thing: I've already explained to Iso why I was pushing Shark. My vote or lackthereof wasn't going to do anything I couldn't accomplish simply by questioning him.
Unvote
{Magic: The RPG}
It was the personalization that got me. Like, you said "I" understand that "I" am a danger to society. Not "well, according to the opening post, it appears we feel that we are dangers to society...." Or something like that. It was like you were identifying with that mentality. As a "character", which is unlike your other posts.
Vote Axelrod.
Speaking of this, I just thought of a question I'd like Shark to answer:
@Shark: What are your opinions of Arnnaria, Iso, and myself?
{Magic: The RPG}
My name is Asenion. This is very different from Ascension. Asenion is the designation given to robots designed to follow the Three Laws of Robotics designed by Isaac Asimov. (The etymology of the word is a misspelling of Asimov's name that stuck and came into common usage.)
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
_________________________________________________________________
@Caex: Why those 3 specific players? I can see Iso as he is going after you while defending me, sort of? I don't get Arnnaria as he's elsewhere focusing on others.
Iso: Leaning town at this point, but not typical Iso (though it's impossible to meta Iso). But here's something: He, Caex, and myself played in Intrigue Mafia and that game had a mechanic where everyone started with coins and players had to spend coins to use abilities. poggydude made with his first post asking for a coin claim. He later was discovered as scum (after he replaced out). Claiming coins could mean that scum could off the player with the coins, preventing town from getting investigations. In the context of this game, Iso is asking for a color lock claim (in his first post) that he claims he did not notice the part about the Mow Down ability. Asking for a claim like that could be detrimental to town, as it was in Intrigue. Right now, he is playing like town, but that post does raise some eyebrows and should not be forgotten.
Arnnaria: I don't see anything scummy with him at all. I see his push for Axelrod completely acceptable and I do not like that at the moment either.
Caex: You feel very distanced and I think a bit too neutral in your pursuit of me. You give me town points, think my posts have been off, and seem to focus on specific points...
That does not really make me town or scum and it feels very off. I'll wait to hold firm judgement at this point, but at this point, slightly scum (not as bad as Axelrod or KosaKosa) but yea.
_________________________________________________________________
@Axelrod: Really, why do you think Ecophagy is scum? If you think he's scum, shouldn't you be trying to get everyone to lynch him? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from him?
_________________________________________________________________
PEdit:
@ced395: I learned chainsaw from MS and playing on IRC (I actually played IRC a bit longer than MS, but stopped both at the same time (June 2011). I've read the wiki, but not in a long time. Good thoughts though, but I'm interested in how my play experience has bearing on my alignment?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I called him a scumbag, with an exclamation mark at the end. In what world would that be a serious address?
I've perceived the bolded part as you trying to put thorns onto my rose without valid arguments. What were you meaning then?
Plus:
I could totally believe that you were joking as that was RVS if you haven't made the 4-scum reference. But if you were indeed joking, you either would have made fun of it instead of assuming a defensive position, or immediatly dismiss that post as RVS as soon as the suspicion landed on you. That excuse just doesn't add up.
The difference is that when I'm referring to myself in my post, I'm referring to me - the player - who feels the flavor of this game is odd and would have preferred something different (in my oh so humorous style). I'm not "role-playing." Whereas in Eco's post when he was talking about himself, he appeared to be speaking in character - from his character's perspective.
Whether there is any significance in that remains to be seen. I will say there was, in fact, an actual reason for me asking the question beyond just kicks and giggles, though it was probably too much to hope that someone like Eco (if scum) would just walk right into a trap. Sometimes you just take a flyer on stuff though.
I haven't actually decided he's scum yet, in case that was not blindingly obvious. I was pursuing a line, which may be a bit of a stretch, but I did not consider it a big deal, it's still early.
I don't even understand what you are saying about the distancing thing? Are you suggesting we might be scum together? Based on....?
I'm answering your questions but you didn't answer mine:
1. I never said that was a serious. It was RVS, most of the time it means little, though I've seen scum putting an RVS vote on one of their partners to establish distance later on in game. Hence, I am not going to put much stock into it, until I see something between you and Asenion later on.
2. Apparently I was not making myself clear with my response so let's try this again.
Vote: Non-serious.
Catching 2-scum: Non-serious joke meant to stir reaction.
Claiming 4 scum: An internalized expectation to this game. Did not believe it was a slip, though I can understand (now) how it can be perceived as a slip.
Summation of all parts: A non-serious post intended to generate reaction.
3.
This part of your post was what drew me to change my stance a bit more. I never like to close any doors until I know for sure that a player is town or scum, hence I left it open with the bolded statement. Your quote here seemed like an over-reaction to that, hence me calling you "self-conscious". You were not even under extreme pressure, while I might be at L-3? I cannot tell. The game is moving fast so I am bound to miss some votes/unvotes.
@zindabad: Vote Count please
4.
I don't see how it's a good idea to try to joke and or dismiss it, given the reaction it generated. If I did either, I'd be crucified for it. My logic says to explain myself as I have nothing to hide. Dismissing it is absolutely a terrible idea, as doing so is scummier than defending it. I don't think I'm overly defensive.
_________________________________________________________________
@Axelrod:
1. Sorry I missed those questions. Again, the game is moving fairly rapidly and I spent most of it on the phone, so I've missed questions already, so here's your answers.
2. You are correct to believe the post was a RVS type post. I did feel the last part was meant to generate some reaction, though not to the extent that it's gotten. I expected some players to pick at me claiming I caught 2 scum this early. Maybe claiming I'm hypocritical for "chainsawing" KosaKosa (I defend Caex by attacking KosaKosa) while claiming KosaKosa was chainsawing Caex (KosaKosa defending Asenion by attacking Caex). I did not expect the "4-scum" to be the point of contention.
3. I think you could potentially setting up to distance yourself from Eco by bussing him. You don't want to start bussing him yet, but when other players start, you'll pull out some analysis and vote him in a spot to not catch the criticism of the masses and when he's lynched, you'd not be the immediate guess for bussing Eco.
This all assumes that both you and Eco are scum, though I doubt it's true yet. Again, we've reached (as of this post) 127 posts in 26 hours (~5 posts/hr) and every player has posted. That's actually very good. So I hope the activity keeps up, but I still think it's too soon for me to try to link 2 players together on a scumteam.
_________________________________________________________________
I don't recall trying to guessing setup, but I was not intending to mod-game the setup, but it's pretty clear that a standard game of this size would have 4-5 scum. Given 1 confirmed neutral who wins alone, I thought 4 was the most likely and took it as truth at this point. And since the neutral isnt a survivor, so I'm calling it a "SK" (though I do not know if it can kill or not).
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I disagree. This is a fairly pro-game, and as you can see, most players regard you as being an experienced player which wouldn't give out a tell like that.
Taking that into account, in my opinion a joke would be seen as a normal part of the RVS, but your serious reaction startled people up.
Second was the point you brought up: Three different perspectives, and from players you're familiar with. Arnnaria was more or less ignoring the case. Iso was defending you from me. I was attacking you. I wanted a broad spectrum of reads from you.
This seems very fence-sitty to me: "Iso is town, but it's not typical Iso, but it's impossible to meta him". So why say it at all?
And "But let's not forget that poggy did a similar thing in Intrigue so that could be scummy". You typed up a lot more about how the mass claim thing was suspicious than about why you believe Iso to be town.
Sure. That was more or less my read on Arnnaria.
Neutral in what way? I only gave you one town point because I liked one of your responses. But there are a plenty of things I haven't liked, hence me continuing to question you.
Also: What do you mean by "distanced"?
I disagree. I think it's tilted more toward "scummy" than "townie" on the spectrum of such things.
Voting for Kosakosa for the reason you did was going to catch a lot of attention, which you admitted to knowing. But if you knew it was going to get attention, why did you think it would catch of a lot of attention if it wasn't scummy or townie?
EBWOP
Not directly, but c'mon. You said this: You said it wasn't a joke right here. A post which wasn't a joke, intended to stir up a reacon. How is that not a serious post?
{Magic: The RPG}
I just noticed this was Shark responding to something entirely different than what I thought it was. Feel free to ignore that.
{Magic: The RPG}
Forgot to Vote SharkFinnigan
I'm really disliking his two most recent responses.
{Magic: The RPG}
So did you think my vote for you was serious? If so then I can see that. The reaction began with the 4-scum claim. If you don't think my post was not serious, then that doesn't make sense to me.
Iso's been playing town with his pursuit of you. His MC play does not seem Iso-like. Given I've seen a scum use that play it's suspect. I am explaining context for those who did not play/spectate that game.
You give me town points in one post, don't like me in another, and go after something I see as a neutral read at best.
I think of a joke as a ha-ha thing. I don't see my post as trying to make a joke. Light-hearted may be a better word. I think it's light-hearted. The reaction was again geared towards reacting to catching 2 scum and the reasoning for it, not what it ended up being (4 scum).
Still RVS, I figured most would not take it too seriously.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
How many games have you played?
What reaction were you expecting? You must have expected something in particular, and "any reaction is a good reaction" ain't usually townie thinking. So what did you want to get?
Do you usually give this much thought to how things will appear to others when you're town?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
And no, I do not give that much thought into my posts. "This sounds good, lets post this." Unless it's an analysis, then I do try to push it. All I want as town is for everyone to not twist my words and have a clear understanding my mindset, hence I'll repeat stuff for clarity.
Intrigue is my only town-game here thus far that I can direct you towards if you want to see for yourself. D2 I was under pressure and then D3 I was town. So you can see me there if you are bored and you think I am behaving similarly or not so.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
So you don't put much thought in your posts. Have a plausible (in your eyes) defense about the "misinterpretation" of your joke posts. But you still feel enough pressure to ask the mod for a votecount?
These things don't add up.
But the overall fact that you're saying he gets town points for questioning your detractors while simultaneously not playing like Iso and doing a suspicious MC thing is just bad.
I gave you town points for a single post. I've knocked the things you've said in a lot more than one. I don't see what I'm going after you for as a neutral thing. Hence me going after you for it.
Hm. See below.
But if you didn't think anyone would take it seriously, why should it have generated any reacton at all, something you specifically said it was for?
{Magic: The RPG}
Unvote, Vote Arnnaria
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
You stated in the sign up post that you have read through the glossary and this is taken from the glossary:
"RVS: Random Vote Section. The very beginning of the game where people make votes and jokes to start discussion since they have nothing much else to go on. In games with experienced players this sometimes simply doesn’t happen. When it ends is arbitrary."
So did you lie in the sign up post or are you feigning ignorance?
Was this meant to be a fluff post? You highlight something but come to no conclusion. It feels like you are trying to look busy.
People appear to be making a to do over Axelrod and this whole flavor issue. This reads to me as just discussing flavor, not really a big deal, IMO.
Was this an RVS vote? Just want to clarify.
As I stated above, I'm not reading this the same way you are.
Again knowing this has been addressed and your follow up had good reasoning. I am, however, against a mass color claim due to the Mow Down ability that the scum have.
So...You are not new to Mafia?
I'm very confused by your interactions at this point. I read your initial posts as RVS posts but you are now confirming that they were not jokes and you were looking for reactions. Have you detailed what you got and what your reads are from these reactions?
I agree that Shark is not a noob and since you have also drawn that conclusion, what do you make of his initial posts?
What newb tells are you getting from Shark? I agree with Kosa2 and his posts. They come across as uppity and certainly not that of a newb.
Kosa - what is your experience?
Re: The bolded. I didn't see this (2 down, 2 to go) as a slip, so the only other thing it could be is speculation. You also confirmed it was not a joke post so what else are folks supposed to draw from it?
Can you quote where Axelrod redirected?
Why those three?
Again, you claimed to have read the Welcome thread. This really feels like you are trying hard to appear new to the game.
Why?
First I would like to Unvote Vitek as RVS is now over.
I haven't liked Sharks post up to this point, but I would like to hear what reads he was able to establish with his earlier joke posts before voting him.
Really? Because I've been in numerous games where people have been speculating on the scumteam on Day 1.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This rubs me the wrong way. I don't like it when the instant response is, "META ME! LOOK! GO!"
I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I was suggesting that; just because a player might be town doesn't mean they'd all have the same ability types and colors.
Keep watching, old man.
Do you plan to contribute any original content to the thread? Because this reads to me like you're just regurgitating Eco's suspicion of me.
The fact that the rest of this post is just talking about your name...give us something solid. Some analysis. We don't instantly decide who's lynched at the beginning of a Day. It takes discussion to make that choice, and when you don't contribute, it sends up red flags. So, why aren't you contributing and why are you so eager to see someone lynched?
I'm not defending you, I just didn't like Caex's jump on you.
Really? If your suspicion of me is meta-based, then I suggest you go read some more Iso games before you make such an uninformed call.
I think you're really reaching with this. What did you hope to gain from this? Do you really perceive scumEco to be that much of a threat?
This, however, rubs me as self-conscious. Vote Axelrod
While I'm wary about Shark, I want to see Axel hang right now.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was talking about the seriousness of your (over)reaction when pressured on a supposed RVS vote, not the vote itself. The vote is now mainly irrelevant, as the reaction you had afterwards is making more difference than the post per se.
You will never know
EBWODP: Why is that? I couldn't see anything in his post.
That is entirely the wrong answer to that question. A quick check of your signup post shows that you claim to have no experience, and your posts are backing that up. You could stand to lay off the smug snake attitude, because that's the kind of BS that let scum lurk through to perfect wins if it's widespread enough.
Re: Eron: that's the kind of smug attitude I was talking about. Most of his newb tells have just been him not being familiar with what to do in certain situations. More gut than much else ATM.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
He genuinely believes this is a thing that might happen. Clearly, he doesn't have the experience to know that playing like an idiot to bait a scum never works. And I don't believe he's experienced enough to try this as a scum - as Arnnaria himself noted, Shark's twitchy despite not being anywhere near lynch.
There are two explanations for being twitchy before a lynch: a player being so scummy it hurts, or a player being so awful it hurts. I'm surprised several of you really think it's the former. I'll go read Intrigue to confirm this read, but this is the best explanation.
Which is why Arnnaria's post caught my eye -
All three of those are obviously behaviors of an inexperienced player, but he sells (1) and (2) like they're inconsistent with (3), and then rather than asking Shark about the inconsistency or voting him, he sticks in the vague-leading remark at the end to nudge people to jump on/stick on Shark - I assume because a scum would figure if he's this shaky, he'll crack under any more pressure.
Did I miss anything here?
(Briefly skimming Arn's posts, it seems like he tried to do something very similar to Axelrod re: the flavor debate in posts 110-111; strong accusations that peter out.)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Although I have enough experience with IRL games, this is my very first online one. Nevertheless, I have made my Mafia game homework pretty decently. There, happy? -__-
People care too much about the meta, geez.
You're clearly using it as a point against him. Isn't "META ME! LOOK! GO!" generally your default response to everything?
And I don't believe that you didn't read the OP before suggesting your mass colour claim, because however overstated I feel your general skill level is, you're at least reasonably thorough in reading, for the most part.
@Eron - It was indeed a random vote, but I'm pretty happy to leave it on him, after that.
Meta is at most marginally valuable against newer players. Experienced players can generally dodge it, or play into it.
I think that the post on Shark was just generally a cobble of the scummy things he's been doing, highlighted by asking for a vote count. I'm not on the Shark wagon, but I wanted to bring to light that his call for a votecount was extremely scummy because nobody else had picked up on it yet.
I'm pretty much on the Axelrod wagon. I don't like his early game. I don't like how defensive he's getting. I don't much care for his explanations of both previous votes. However, I was just wanting to see how much he would squirm under the pressure when he had very little votes. Now that there seems to be considerable support for Axel's scum play, there's no need to use the thumbscrews anymore.
Vote Axelrod
EBWODP: "both previous votes" should read "both previous issues"
I don't know if other people are doing this but I've mixed up Kosa2 and Asenion a lot. In the sign ups Asenion was very new player-ish but Kosa didn't come across the same way. I'm definitely getting the smarmy attitude from Kosa. I think he's a DRey gimmick.
Nope, I've learned since then. I know how to defend myself now.
Also, keeping your vote on me for baseless speculation about whether or not I thoroughly read the OP is weak at best.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm sorry if I'm not contributing much, there are a lot of people talking and I'm not sure who is the mafia yet.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's not, however, as weak as bandwaggoning me for being too "self-conscious."
I will give you a tip. For future reference. I'm mellower now than I used to be (a bit) but one thing that is still liable to get me to blow my top is being accused of being "too defensive" when someone comes at me.
Seriously, has there ever been a dumber accusation in all the game of Mafia? Like, you can defend yourself, sure, but you better not be too defensive about it. Because, man, that's so scummy.
I'm going to go ahead and give everyone a tiny window into my brain now, at excruciating length, and at the risk of *horror* being accused again of being too defensive, because I don't know how many votes I have but it is more than a few and whatever. I actually have time to spend on this game at the moment, which is usnsual for me for the past year.
It's like this:
So, I'm reading the opening posts. The story. It's cool. I'm digging it. I like all the set up. I like this warden character. I like the guy who has got caught on purpose. Then I get to the end where the actual game part is "set up" and I'm like, Wait, what? I didn't even get it the first time I read it. So I read it again, and I'm like, so, the "Town" are the mindless idiots who want to stay in the prison, and the "Mafia" are the rebellious freedom fighters?
Ew.
This was what inspired my initial posts. Now, I don't actually care about this. I am not, in fact, angry about this. It does not affect how I am playing the game. It's just weird to me. That, at least thematically, I am playing for the privilege of staying in prison that is apparently sucking my magical energy out of me. So I make, what I think is a humorous post. You know, with the and everything.
I will confess that there was a secondary purpose to the post (you will see that there is often more than one purpose to a post that I make). I was genuinely curious if anyone else had the same kind of reaction as me from reading those opening posts. And the point here is that, those having similar reactions would by definition be other members of the Town. The Mafia would obviously not have that kind of reaction. Could they fake such a reaction? Sure. But I thought it slightly less likely a Mafia would jump forward and try to barn what I was saying. And I could at least make a judgement call about whether their reaction sounded natural or not. I was also anticipating that many, if not most, people wouldn't even have read all the flavor text stuff (it's kind of long), and even if they had might not have fully understood it (I had to read it twice), and might not even know what I was talking about at all.
I got like three reactions, to that post. The one I liked came from ced in #31. "The uninformed Majority, the best majority...." which is kind of what I was looking for. He's acknowledging that the Town appears at least flavorfully to be kind of stupid in this game. Arnnaria also responded, and my response to that post is kind of neutral. If felt like Arn maybe didn't understand what the flavor actually was. So, call it a push. And I got one more interesting response. This was the one from Eco. in #38. The one where he says, "I" understand that "I" am a danger to society, etc.
That post was interesting to me for 2 reasons. One, because of what I said previously about how I thought normal people would react, and two because his personalization seemed to stick out a bit. I was almost like he was saying that his "character" i.e. his role-pm, was telling him that this was how he felt.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my role PM says nothing about my character's feelings. It is styled as a Dossier from the Mancers about who I am and how I came to be in the jail. It's very impersonal.
So, I decided to prod Eco., just a bit, to see what he would say. That was my next post where I questioned him about "role-playing" (still in a humorous way, mind you). Where I "re-voted" him, which was my way of hinting that there was something slightly more to the vote this time than the first vote, which was truly just a RVS vote. What I really wanted to see was if he might "slip" and claim that he got that stuff about feeling like he was a danger to society and was better off in the jail from his actual role-pm. I mean, who knows, right? At that point it would be an open question as to whether anyone else claimed that their roles had stuff in them about their characters and their feelings about the Atagan, but it could lead to something productive. So, gentile prods. I questioned him about his role-playing. Because, normally when you role play, it's because of, you know, your role, not because of something written in the opening post.
Eco. eventually responded saying he was just giving a flavorful reason why we (as Town) are doing what we are doing. Which, you know, could be true. It's the reason given in the opening post. Which he's just saying back, but making it more personal. I still find that a bit odd, but that's about it. He certainly didn't fall into the potential trap.
And that was pretty much that.
Except now I have to deal with people saying I'm too self-conscious and suspicious-looking for implying I'm Town this game. And defensive. Joy.
This has been your tiny window into my Mafia brain. Be careful asking me why I do anything. It's liable to net you a response like this one if you're not careful.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's what I said about the meta! I bet you only came to that because of my brazilian flag over there
On a serious note, the points Arnnaria is making about Axelrod seems relevant. I've also noticed that his attempt to divert attention for Shark at #114 passed largely unnoticed. Only Silversihhe called it at #120.
Plus:
This seems oddly made-up in my opinion.
Axel clearly doesn't remember cold war mafia, where the town were the bloody commies and the mafia were the glorious democracy-loving americans.
That being said, The entirety of his long-winded rant makes a lot of sense to me. It took me more than a few tries to figure out what the whole flavor premise was. Not to say that it's bad, merely that it's not as simple as it may seem. Axel gets townie points for the assessment, and iso looks a lot worse for trying to play it off.
Unvote, Vote Iso
Opportunistic scum is opportunistic.
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player