@EtR and Tom: Do you think IB's barning of Wessel is more attempting to seem helpful than Wessel's original post? Actually, it's clear you do, but why?
I pretty much answered this in the same post I voted in.
It's not really that he is "attempting to seem more helpful" as it's quite clear that posting "/barn" isn't helpful at all (that's my whole point; why did he even post it??).
I believe he was attempting to seem more like town, however, in that his post aims to get us thinking "oh IB also thinks that we should start some real scum-hunting... he must be town".
As I said before, Wessel's post would probably have gotten the RVS stuff over with, whether IB had posted his "/barn" or not. His "/barn" was completely pointless, unless he was using it to get us to think he's town.
To take it a step further, IB called me out in his "strong reasoning" post. No comments as to anything else occurring, no read as to why I voted and nothing else, just a snappy post to rebuke mine. Coming shortly after he barned a post that called for more reads and less jokes seems scummy.
Unless I'm missing something, the "/barn" came before the "strong reasoning".
To take it a step further, IB called me out in his "strong reasoning" post. No comments as to anything else occurring, no read as to why I voted and nothing else, just a snappy post to rebuke mine. Coming shortly after he barned a post that called for more reads and less jokes seems scummy.
Unless I'm missing something, the "/barn" came before the "strong reasoning".
Or did you forget why you voted...?
Yes, I forgot.
It was before. The vote came from mostly the /barn which I gave an explantation for in one post then added more in the next regarding the "strong reason" post.
Anyway, with so many people (half of which are absent), it might be a while before we actually get a train going... Or if the noobs are too noobeh, then it won't be too long before we get this train wreck going...
@Maokun: The random voting stage (RVS) is a point in the game (at the start) where no-one has really got any reads on anyone, and are just voting for fun. But eventually someone slips up, or someone thinks someone slipped up, at which point more serious conversation ensues and people start voting each other for actual reasons. There is no demarcated line of 'This is the end of RVS', it is something that happens gradually and naturally.
But I think there are now enough indications that the RVS is over, so I would like to ask everyone to just stop talking about different things and start playing the game. Or at least, I would like everyone to give their views on what's happening in the game (like, do you think anyone's post is indicative of their alignment, etcetera). Let's get this game going.
@Maokun: The random voting stage (RVS) is a point in the game (at the start) where no-one has really got any reads on anyone, and are just voting for fun. But eventually someone slips up, or someone thinks someone slipped up, at which point more serious conversation ensues and people start voting each other for actual reasons. There is no demarcated line of 'This is the end of RVS', it is something that happens gradually and naturally.
But I think there are now enough indications that the RVS is over, so I would like to ask everyone to just stop talking about different things and start playing the game. Or at least, I would like everyone to give their views on what's happening in the game (like, do you think anyone's post is indicative of their alignment, etcetera). Let's get this game going.
/barn
And I see nothing wrong with IB's barn. Votes on him for this reason are either scummy advantageous votes or votes of inexperience. I'm leaning inexperience at this point, for obvious reasons.
Yes... we can pretty much expect a lot of scumtells to be null with all the new players in this normal... Thanks Kank...
You're welcome!
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
If captaineddie ends up getting swapped out for Iso, then it will count at that time!
Why are you dodging? You looked up all the NORMALS in the past YEAR, that's a small fraction of the games played on this site and surely not enough to base reliable statistics off of, as I'm sure you're aware. So you are using this flawed logic as an excuse to steer clear of any incriminating vote history.
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal, it's got 23 people in it and there are strange new gender mechanics. This makes your research/justification even weaker. To support your stance, you would be better off researching specialities.
But yeah, this looks to me like dodging content in order to post safe things.
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
Interesting! I know why it'd be 75/25 or so in favor of a townie getting lynched, but why do you think it's 100%? That's a lot.
Quote from Kankennon »
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
I don't think "because townies usually get lynched I'm not gonna vote for anyone" is very reasonable. Townies getting lynched day one lets you check the wagon for the weakest justifications, and helps you scumhunt. It's virtually always protown to lynch SOMEBODY. I think I remember you saying you're kinda new at Mafia, is that true?
Very well, I'll stop with the jokey votes then if it's time to really start playing.
Unvote
Yes, this is my first official Mafia game so feel free to label me with whatever sort of noob Post-It notes you desire. Be sure not to consider me using humor or sarcasm as a tell in either direction, because that's how I always am 24/7. (Feel free to check back in any of my 10,000+ posts.)
It's way too early for me to get a read on anyone yet, and no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it.
One of my all-time pet peeves is people who commit to playing a game and then never show up to play it.
With that said, I'll place my official vote on whoever shows up LAST, between Seppel and captaineddie.
If by any chance, I see that someone else strikes me as a better candidate before either one of them posts, then by all means, I'll reserve my option to change my mind at that time.
Once again this "I'll vote for whoever checks in last" is the kind of content dodging that get's my attention. It acts as an excuse for legitimate vote reasoning, it acts as an excuse to not vote until one of them shows up last and it acts as an excuse to provide much content
Also, there's a contradiction in this post. Kank agrees that it's time for the jokey votes to be finished with, but I take his "vote for the last guy in" to be jokey. Whether it's jokey or not, it's a problem with me, but if it was intended as a joke, it's more of a problem because of his statement previously in the post.
Lastly, Kank, to finish this post, you claim that you would change your vote if someone strikes you as a better candidate. What things are you looking for that would point more towards someone being scum? What are you watching out for?
@IB: I didn't read any more into Moakon's post than you attempting to explain away your self-voting habit thats got you into a few problems recently.
Nice smear attempt.
I self-vote. I do it in virtually every game I'm in. It's gotten me into trouble exactly once. I vote for myself during RVS because it's an easy way of checking in.
Your defense of Maokun and attempt to smear me with his scummy actions make me question your alignment pretty strongly.
Saying that is a smear attempt, is, in fact, a nice smear attempt.
Unvote, Vote IB
This is the only legit reason for voting IB, but looking at IB's tone and the rest of his play this game, I'm inclined to think he's town that's got himself into hot water as usual.
Vote Kankennon
Kank is a noob, to be sure, but he's the more experienced level of noob. He's been around the site for a while, has played in clan games before I believe and has got the gist of mafia. I believe he's on of those players that really wanted to be prepared for what they were getting into when they sign up for mafia. That being said, I'm keeping the noob excuse in my mind, but I'm not giving it as much thought as I would others. Moving on...
Kank's track record so far this game has consisted of two things: voting for people outside the game and digging into old game information. In other words, he's playing for appearances. Given the fact that he's been trying to justify his non-important votes, I'm inclined to believe it's an attempt to seem active while keeping the heat off of him. Secondly, while digging up old game information may seem townie and productive, the hard facts are that any player, town or scum, has access to those old games and can post those things. Scum tend to like to do it more, because it allows them to keep posting things that appear to be content.
I believe that Kank is smart enough to know that he's not going to be able to lurk through this game. Because he knows this, he's trying to make frequent posts yet still make them safe posts things he's not going to step on toes with.
I would like to hear from Kank about these matters.
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@Maokun: The random voting stage (RVS) is a point in the game (at the start) where no-one has really got any reads on anyone, and are just voting for fun. But eventually someone slips up, or someone thinks someone slipped up, at which point more serious conversation ensues and people start voting each other for actual reasons. There is no demarcated line of 'This is the end of RVS', it is something that happens gradually and naturally.
But I think there are now enough indications that the RVS is over, so I would like to ask everyone to just stop talking about different things and start playing the game. Or at least, I would like everyone to give their views on what's happening in the game (like, do you think anyone's post is indicative of their alignment, etcetera). Let's get this game going.
/barn
Unvote
Vote: infectiousbaloth
This "/barn" post doesn't read very natural to me. Why even post it? It looks like a post that is simply there to make you seem more townish (wanting to get the game started and investigate people, when in reality Wessel's post probably would have started that with or without your little /barn).
For all I am finding I.B a little more aggressive and sensitive than he has been in other games I have to agree with him.
Eron why the vote? Despite having a quote that is ultimately a barn to move the game on a bit your vote is nude. Of the pair why did you go for I.Baloth who merely agreed with the sentiment as opposed to Wessel who suggested it.
Wessel's post essentially says "stop joking, start posting reads". Infectious barns it but provides no reads or commentary of his own. It appears that IB is attempting to come across as helpful town by barning something that comes from a town mentality, but actually does what he was barning in the post, (I.e. not posting any real content)
Also @Eron:
Are we reading the same game? I've come out against Maokun and am still waiting for Kahedron to explain to me why he's in the business of defending Maokun. I accumulated 3 votes for barning Wessel's post? Give me a break.
Triple post because I didn't quote WoD: Do you disagree with me? Is Kahedron bringing up my history of self-voting not a smear when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand?
To take it a step further, IB called me out in his "strong reasoning" post. No comments as to anything else occurring, no read as to why I voted and nothing else, just a snappy post to rebuke mine. Coming shortly after he barned a post that called for more reads and less jokes seems scummy.
Unless I'm missing something, the "/barn" came before the "strong reasoning".
Or did you forget why you voted...?
Yes, I forgot.
It was before. The vote came from mostly the /barn which I gave an explantation for in one post then added more in the next regarding the "strong reason" post.
Forgetting why you voted while trying to push a case on it = Not townish
And I see nothing wrong with IB's barn. Votes on him for this reason are either scummy advantageous votes or votes of inexperience. I'm leaning inexperience at this point, for obvious reasons.
Read my points against him, and please explain what purpose his post served other than "look i'm town too". Do you actually think his "/barn" did anything except attempt to make himself look good?
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal
Could you read the title of this thread and then explain exactly what you mean?
@IB: any particular reason why you quoted me in the first of your three posts and then didn't really say anything about it? You started your post with "Also", so I feel like there may be something missing.
That said his other behavior and response to pressure is scummy. His accusation of smearing and his broad reason vote of makoun
vote ib
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And I see nothing wrong with IB's barn. Votes on him for this reason are either scummy advantageous votes or votes of inexperience. I'm leaning inexperience at this point, for obvious reasons.
Read my points against him, and please explain what purpose his post served other than "look i'm town too". Do you actually think his "/barn" did anything except attempt to make himself look good?
I think you are taking the /barn to an extreme. Had he barned a vote and placed his own, I would have a problem with it. However he was simply barning an understanding of the gamestate, which I read as a harmless agreement.
Secondly, you aren't accounting for any of his other posts in the game. You are pointing at the barn and saying "look at this guy trying to post content like he's actually playing!" when he is, in fact, actually playing and posting things aside from the barn. You're attack onto IB for nothing more than the barn is defeated by the fact that IB is obviously posting more than you are accounting for.
Lastly, if you have a problem with that barn and with barns in normal, then you are going to have a problem with me, with this game, with other players in the game and with the game in general. Barning, while it can sometimes be used to catch scum, is commonplace in mafia and is used by both town and scum equally. To catch a scum off of a barn is very situational, it depends on who's barning, how they are barning, who they are barning and what it is they are barning, among other things I'm sure. I know I barn a lot and I know plenty of other players who barn. It's a part of the game
As for what I believe IB was doing with his barn, I don't think it was a "Hey I'm a townie providing content!" post, it was more just a "Hey wessel's right guys" post. It let's the town know IB's mindset, that he too agrees that RVS is over.
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal
Could you read the title of this thread and then explain exactly what you mean?[/QUOTE]
This I find hilarious actually. If someone hands you a dog and calls it a cat, are you going to believe it's a cat and preach that it's a cat, even though it's clear that what you have is a dog?
Compare that to this game. Yes, the title of the thread says "Normal". Does that mean it's a normal? Hell no. The true definition of a normal would be a 12 or 24 man game with basic roles and no strange mechanics for the town to worry about. However, during the course of mafia on this website, the definitions of the different types of games (Basic, Normal, Specialties and Mini), have become loosened to allow for variation in order to avoid game stagnation. Basics are 12 man games that are generally the same, basic roles with no strange mechanics. Normals are bigger games with a few strange mechanics. Specialties games are bigger games with vastly different mechanics and Mini's are basics that have gone the normal/specialty way.
What I'm saying is that while this game falls into the normal definition of the website, one would have to account for the game mechanic difference and research the normals, specialties and minis to do proper research.
That being said, while this game is called "Normal" it is in no way anything normal. For Kahedron to base information by only looking at previous normals and only within the past year, it means that he's making a flawed statistical analysis. I would be tempted to agree if he had looked at all games within a year or if he had looked at all normal's ever played, but my argument was that his sample size was flawed and he was looking too strictly at "Normal" games.
I'll end my statement with this: comparing one normal to another normal is like comparing apples and a swedish coffee table. They may both be "normal" but still have nothing in common.
I will also say that I didn't read the "normal" classification in the thread title. To me, those things mean very little, because the lines between Normals and Specialties is very thin and sometimes poorly defined.
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I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
To take it a step further, IB called me out in his "strong reasoning" post. No comments as to anything else occurring, no read as to why I voted and nothing else, just a snappy post to rebuke mine. Coming shortly after he barned a post that called for more reads and less jokes seems scummy.
I think you are taking the /barn to an extreme. Had he barned a vote and placed his own, I would have a problem with it. However he was simply barning an understanding of the gamestate, which I read as a harmless agreement.
Secondly, you aren't accounting for any of his other posts in the game. You are pointing at the barn and saying "look at this guy trying to post content like he's actually playing!" when he is, in fact, actually playing and posting things aside from the barn. You're attack onto IB for nothing more than the barn is defeated by the fact that IB is obviously posting more than you are accounting for.
Lastly, if you have a problem with that barn and with barns in normal, then you are going to have a problem with me, with this game, with other players in the game and with the game in general. Barning, while it can sometimes be used to catch scum, is commonplace in mafia and is used by both town and scum equally. To catch a scum off of a barn is very situational, it depends on who's barning, how they are barning, who they are barning and what it is they are barning, among other things I'm sure. I know I barn a lot and I know plenty of other players who barn. It's a part of the game
As for what I believe IB was doing with his barn, I don't think it was a "Hey I'm a townie providing content!" post, it was more just a "Hey wessel's right guys" post. It let's the town know IB's mindset, that he too agrees that RVS is over.
Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. Unvote
I do find it rather odd that his defense is coming from you rather than him, however...
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
[A lot of stuff saying that a "normal" has changed it's definition over the years on MTGS]
As for the analysis on Kank, I'd say that Kank is true to his word in that he's trying to explore the world of mafia on these forums. Since this is his (and my) first game, I think an appropriate amount of slack should be allowed for us having no idea what we're really doing. I said earlier that a lot of scum tells will turn up null and I believe this to be one of them. And as Kank said, if this leads to our early graves, then so be it. It'll definitely be a learning experience.
@Waiting for trains: I have no idea what I'm doing. Therefore, wait for train?
@Kank: I told you I should have done a basic first!
Triple post because I didn't quote WoD: Do you disagree with me? Is Kahedron bringing up my history of self-voting not a smear when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand?
That wasn't why I voted you.
You dismissing whatever he said about you (it was meta so I don't care if it's true or not, and have no inclination to find out... because meta is stupid) as a smear attempt is in fact smearing him, by attacking HIS credibility, by implying that he's being underhanded and trying to smear you.
Calling it a smear makes you seem jumpy, and is definitely an overreaction worth a vote.
Oh I totally get that me posting so much already is putting a target sign on my back, from either townies willing to jump on the Kankwagon because I seem to be so scummy, or from nervous scummers worried that I might be too active and able to root them out.
That is not why I am voting you and not why I said I was voting you, fwiw
General statement is general. I get that you voted for me because I outwardly warned of my use of humor and sarcasm, which obviously means that if you use it or even warn people that you plan to use humor/sarcasm no matter what, then that also brands you as scummy, no matter what.
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
If captaineddie ends up getting swapped out for Iso, then it will count at that time!
Why are you dodging? You looked up all the NORMALS in the past YEAR, that's a small fraction of the games played on this site and surely not enough to base reliable statistics off of, as I'm sure you're aware. So you are using this flawed logic as an excuse to steer clear of any incriminating vote history.
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal, it's got 23 people in it and there are strange new gender mechanics. This makes your research/justification even weaker. To support your stance, you would be better off researching specialities.
But yeah, this looks to me like dodging content in order to post safe things.
Seriously, I only had like 15 minutes to check things out at the time, and I figured that checking Normal games was the best use of my time since this game has been labled a "Normal" game.
If this Normal game is not actually a Normal game, then so be it.
In any case, if Mafia players account for 25% of the players, then wouldn't you think they'd get hit at least 25% of the time out of the gate? All I found that it was an odd statistic that sampled a small portion of the total games played, yes.
Does it have any bearing in this game?
Probably not.
Feel free to throw facts and statistics around however you like.
I'm done looking up past game statistics and will focus my numbers on the game at hand.
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
Interesting! I know why it'd be 75/25 or so in favor of a townie getting lynched, but why do you think it's 100%? That's a lot.
Quote from Kankennon »
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
I don't think "because townies usually get lynched I'm not gonna vote for anyone" is very reasonable. Townies getting lynched day one lets you check the wagon for the weakest justifications, and helps you scumhunt. It's virtually always protown to lynch SOMEBODY. I think I remember you saying you're kinda new at Mafia, is that true?
Very well, I'll stop with the jokey votes then if it's time to really start playing.
Unvote
Yes, this is my first official Mafia game so feel free to label me with whatever sort of noob Post-It notes you desire. Be sure not to consider me using humor or sarcasm as a tell in either direction, because that's how I always am 24/7. (Feel free to check back in any of my 10,000+ posts.)
It's way too early for me to get a read on anyone yet, and no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it.
One of my all-time pet peeves is people who commit to playing a game and then never show up to play it.
With that said, I'll place my official vote on whoever shows up LAST, between Seppel and captaineddie.
If by any chance, I see that someone else strikes me as a better candidate before either one of them posts, then by all means, I'll reserve my option to change my mind at that time.
Once again this "I'll vote for whoever checks in last" is the kind of content dodging that get's my attention. It acts as an excuse for legitimate vote reasoning, it acts as an excuse to not vote until one of them shows up last and it acts as an excuse to provide much content
Also, there's a contradiction in this post. Kank agrees that it's time for the jokey votes to be finished with, but I take his "vote for the last guy in" to be jokey. Whether it's jokey or not, it's a problem with me, but if it was intended as a joke, it's more of a problem because of his statement previously in the post.
Suit yourself. That was more along the lines of me stating that I didn't have a better candidate to pick yet and to incentivize people to actually play the game.
Lastly, Kank, to finish this post, you claim that you would change your vote if someone strikes you as a better candidate. What things are you looking for that would point more towards someone being scum? What are you watching out for?
Other than weeding out the non-players right now, I was looking for behavior that seemed odd to me.
My own behavior, no matter what, will seem odd to some people and logical to others.
If I'm too late to the wagon on a scum player, then I'll appear scummy.
If I'm too early or too late to a townie lynching, then I'll also appear scummy.
I'm sure me just stating these things makes me appear scummy as well, since townies don't ever say anything of the sort ever.
What it all comes down to is that day one appears to just be a random lynching of whoever that usually ends up flipping town.
This is the only legit reason for voting IB, but looking at IB's tone and the rest of his play this game, I'm inclined to think he's town that's got himself into hot water as usual.
Vote Kankennon
Kank is a noob, to be sure, but he's the more experienced level of noob. He's been around the site for a while, has played in clan games before I believe and has got the gist of mafia. I believe he's on of those players that really wanted to be prepared for what they were getting into when they sign up for mafia. That being said, I'm keeping the noob excuse in my mind, but I'm not giving it as much thought as I would others. Moving on...
Kank's track record so far this game has consisted of two things: voting for people outside the game and digging into old game information. In other words, he's playing for appearances. Given the fact that he's been trying to justify his non-important votes, I'm inclined to believe it's an attempt to seem active while keeping the heat off of him. Secondly, while digging up old game information may seem townie and productive, the hard facts are that any player, town or scum, has access to those old games and can post those things. Scum tend to like to do it more, because it allows them to keep posting things that appear to be content.
I believe that Kank is smart enough to know that he's not going to be able to lurk through this game. Because he knows this, he's trying to make frequent posts yet still make them safe posts things he's not going to step on toes with.
I would like to hear from Kank about these matters.
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.
@Maokun: The random voting stage (RVS) is a point in the game (at the start) where no-one has really got any reads on anyone, and are just voting for fun. But eventually someone slips up, or someone thinks someone slipped up, at which point more serious conversation ensues and people start voting each other for actual reasons. There is no demarcated line of 'This is the end of RVS', it is something that happens gradually and naturally.
But I think there are now enough indications that the RVS is over, so I would like to ask everyone to just stop talking about different things and start playing the game. Or at least, I would like everyone to give their views on what's happening in the game (like, do you think anyone's post is indicative of their alignment, etcetera). Let's get this game going.
@Maokun: The random voting stage (RVS) is a point in the game (at the start) where no-one has really got any reads on anyone, and are just voting for fun. But eventually someone slips up, or someone thinks someone slipped up, at which point more serious conversation ensues and people start voting each other for actual reasons. There is no demarcated line of 'This is the end of RVS', it is something that happens gradually and naturally.
But I think there are now enough indications that the RVS is over, so I would like to ask everyone to just stop talking about different things and start playing the game. Or at least, I would like everyone to give their views on what's happening in the game (like, do you think anyone's post is indicative of their alignment, etcetera). Let's get this game going.
@Maokun: The random voting stage (RVS) is a point in the game (at the start) where no-one has really got any reads on anyone, and are just voting for fun. But eventually someone slips up, or someone thinks someone slipped up, at which point more serious conversation ensues and people start voting each other for actual reasons. There is no demarcated line of 'This is the end of RVS', it is something that happens gradually and naturally.
But I think there are now enough indications that the RVS is over, so I would like to ask everyone to just stop talking about different things and start playing the game. Or at least, I would like everyone to give their views on what's happening in the game (like, do you think anyone's post is indicative of their alignment, etcetera). Let's get this game going.
/barn
Unvote: A Bear; Vote: InfectiousBaloth
Strong reasoning.
IB's "Strong Reasoning" post Coming after everything else. I think that maybe it's a punctuation/wording issue.
To take it a step further, IB called me out in his "strong reasoning" post. No comments as to anything else occurring, no read as to why I voted and nothing else, just a snappy post to rebuke mine. This coming shortly after he barned a post that called for more reads and less jokes seems scummy.
Does the "this" make it more clear what I was trying to get across?
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
To take it a step further, IB called me out in his "strong reasoning" post. No comments as to anything else occurring, no read as to why I voted and nothing else, just a snappy post to rebuke mine. Coming shortly after he barned a post that called for more reads and less jokes seems scummy.
It is definitely worded awkwardly, and the "this" would have helped.
I think you are taking the /barn to an extreme. Had he barned a vote and placed his own, I would have a problem with it. However he was simply barning an understanding of the gamestate, which I read as a harmless agreement.
Secondly, you aren't accounting for any of his other posts in the game. You are pointing at the barn and saying "look at this guy trying to post content like he's actually playing!" when he is, in fact, actually playing and posting things aside from the barn. You're attack onto IB for nothing more than the barn is defeated by the fact that IB is obviously posting more than you are accounting for.
Lastly, if you have a problem with that barn and with barns in normal, then you are going to have a problem with me, with this game, with other players in the game and with the game in general. Barning, while it can sometimes be used to catch scum, is commonplace in mafia and is used by both town and scum equally. To catch a scum off of a barn is very situational, it depends on who's barning, how they are barning, who they are barning and what it is they are barning, among other things I'm sure. I know I barn a lot and I know plenty of other players who barn. It's a part of the game
As for what I believe IB was doing with his barn, I don't think it was a "Hey I'm a townie providing content!" post, it was more just a "Hey wessel's right guys" post. It let's the town know IB's mindset, that he too agrees that RVS is over.
Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. Unvote
I do find it rather odd that his defense is coming from you rather than him, however...
While it is a defense, it's more of a pseudo defense. The vote reasoning that WoD posted was fine, but I was concerned with everyone voting IB for the barn. My "defense" of IB over the barn issue was more of me having a problem with everyone voting him for that reason. I saw it as weak vote reasoning.
As for the analysis on Kank, I'd say that Kank is true to his word in that he's trying to explore the world of mafia on these forums. Since this is his (and my) first game, I think an appropriate amount of slack should be allowed for us having no idea what we're really doing. I said earlier that a lot of scum tells will turn up null and I believe this to be one of them. And as Kank said, if this leads to our early graves, then so be it. It'll definitely be a learning experience.
I'm accounting for slack on Kank. Maybe not enough, but I'd like to see his responses. What I'm not going to do is not pressure half the town because of the possible noobieness of my targets. That gets us nowhere. So, because of the level of saturation of noobs in the game, I'm very close to throwing the noob card straight out the window.
I couldn't exactly edit my post to clean up the messy quotes now could I?
I'm cool with LampDwellr's suspicions about me, but something about GrickyTimmick's methodology is throwing me off.
I didn't spot it in the posts he addressed me directly, but actually in Post #128 where he responded to Tom.
An educational diatribe on Mafia game subtypes?
Normal to Normal = Apples to Ikea?
This is more helpful than me pulling out some silly data on past Normal games simply because I wanted to feel like I was doing *something* constructive?
Oh, and if you want to have an easier time distinguishing between Kahedron and myself, just use my emoticon: then.
Yeah, I'd like to learn a little more about GrickyTimmick and since this seems like a good way to do it:
Are we reading the same game? I've come out against Maokun and am still waiting for Kahedron to explain to me why he's in the business of defending Maokun.
Because I am not, I'm wondering what you see so bad in Maokun so soon that it was worth the first serious vote of the game. Me bringing up your self voting is more you are very aware that you do it which is what you appear to accusing Maokun of being So I am treating them both as what they are currently null tells.
Your sensitivity over the issue is interesting but in no way groundbreaking enough to warrant the below.
I accumulated 3 votes for barning Wessel's post? Give me a break.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
@Stardust: RVS voting is RVS voting... Didn't feel a response was required...
At the time I didn't realise you had actually played Mafia before (on other forums). I saw a chance to push a newb and took it, hoping to get a reaction of some kind. As it is, your reaction was acceptable. Unvote.
Glad to see you're working to get the game moving, Wessel, but that list is just loaded with WIFOM. Not that we have much else to go on at this point, but it's worth noting for the rookies that that reasoning won't fly later in the game.
So, as Kank said, Seppel and captaineddie are the only two who haven't posted. Hopefully they show up soon. The sideboard is the current post count, which I'll be referring back to later in the game, I'm sure.
In other news, Tom, as per usual, is floundering. I don't see the solid scum hunting skills that Wessel was talking about, and frankly, Tom looks like the same sketchy player that got lynched in the two games of experience I have with her*. Vote: Tom.
*Please note, I will be referring to players' genders as the gender assigned to them in the game. I hope that doesn't offend anyone.
General statement is general. I get that you voted for me because I outwardly warned of my use of humor and sarcasm, which obviously means that if you use it or even warn people that you plan to use humor/sarcasm no matter what, then that also brands you as scummy, no matter what.
Nah, it seemed overly self-aware.
Quote from Kankennon »
Seriously, I only had like 15 minutes to check things out at the time, and I figured that checking Normal games was the best use of my time since this game has been labled a "Normal" game.
If this Normal game is not actually a Normal game, then so be it.
In any case, if Mafia players account for 25% of the players, then wouldn't you think they'd get hit at least 25% of the time out of the gate? All I found that it was an odd statistic that sampled a small portion of the total games played, yes.
Does it have any bearing in this game?
Probably not.
Feel free to throw facts and statistics around however you like.
I'm done looking up past game statistics and will focus my numbers on the game at hand.
I think looking up past game statistics is pretty interesting and informative! So did you. You depart quickly, though. Why??
I think you would expect to hit scum about 15% of the time on D1, because scum represent only 25-30% of the players and scum can also vote, which increases the likelihood of a successful townie wagon. It's hard to hit scum unless they bus.
What I found interesting was the 100% part! It means that some of the things people in normals on THIS VERY FORUM are seeing as scummy probably aren't!
It's still protown to vote people.
Lastly, Kank, to finish this post, you claim that you would change your vote if someone strikes you as a better candidate. What things are you looking for that would point more towards someone being scum? What are you watching out for?
Other than weeding out the non-players right now, I was looking for behavior that seemed odd to me.
My own behavior, no matter what, will seem odd to some people and logical to others.
If I'm too late to the wagon on a scum player, then I'll appear scummy.
If I'm too early or too late to a townie lynching, then I'll also appear scummy.
I'm sure me just stating these things makes me appear scummy as well, since townies don't ever say anything of the sort ever.
What it all comes down to is that day one appears to just be a random lynching of whoever that usually ends up flipping town.
This is the only legit reason for voting IB, but looking at IB's tone and the rest of his play this game, I'm inclined to think he's town that's got himself into hot water as usual.
Vote Kankennon
Kank is a noob, to be sure, but he's the more experienced level of noob. He's been around the site for a while, has played in clan games before I believe and has got the gist of mafia. I believe he's on of those players that really wanted to be prepared for what they were getting into when they sign up for mafia. That being said, I'm keeping the noob excuse in my mind, but I'm not giving it as much thought as I would others. Moving on...
Kank's track record so far this game has consisted of two things: voting for people outside the game and digging into old game information. In other words, he's playing for appearances. Given the fact that he's been trying to justify his non-important votes, I'm inclined to believe it's an attempt to seem active while keeping the heat off of him. Secondly, while digging up old game information may seem townie and productive, the hard facts are that any player, town or scum, has access to those old games and can post those things. Scum tend to like to do it more, because it allows them to keep posting things that appear to be content.
I believe that Kank is smart enough to know that he's not going to be able to lurk through this game. Because he knows this, he's trying to make frequent posts yet still make them safe posts things he's not going to step on toes with.
I would like to hear from Kank about these matters.
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.[/QUOTE]
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
Purely speculative. Considering Arcadic made the gender split rougly half, it made more sense to me to split the baddies in half too. That may or may not be the case here, but I'd say the odds favor an even split as opposed to a 2/4 or 4/2 or even less balanced.
I actually used to have a banner that pretty much meant, "Kankennon is rarely 100% serious about anything. Read everything he posts with a grain of salt."
In all reality, the fact that I'm a jokester by nature will surely lead to my early death until people get used to me and say, "Oh that's just Kank. He does that no matter what side he's on."
the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Is there something you know about the scum splits here that the general public does not know?
Just how do you know that the split isn't half and half?
Oh good heavens. Must be election season if we're quoting half-sentences now and someone else is barning it.
I'll quote a little more of the sentence:
Quote from LampDwellr »
even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
It is not the case that [it is 90% likely that the scum are half-and-half], is what I was saying. An awkward sentence, but not as awkward as saying "even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half female - which is not actually the confidence interval I would assign such a circumstance."
~~~~~~
Back to the actual conversation.
Quote from Kankennon »
In all reality, the fact that I'm a jokester by nature will surely lead to my early death until people get used to me and say, "Oh that's just Kank. He does that no matter what side he's on."
You keep making this error where you think that people think that being silly is worth killing someone for. I don't agree.
Saying stuff that's quasi-relevant and then when challenged saying "I was being silly" is the thing I was talking about. And now here's that "I will surely die" fatalism stuff. Which is another one of those quasi-scummy things.
It is not the case that [it is 90% likely that the scum are half-and-half], is what I was saying. An awkward sentence, but not as awkward as saying "even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half female - which is not actually the confidence interval I would assign such a circumstance."
~~~~~~
Back to the actual conversation.
Quote from Kankennon »
In all reality, the fact that I'm a jokester by nature will surely lead to my early death until people get used to me and say, "Oh that's just Kank. He does that no matter what side he's on."
You keep making this error where you think that people think that being silly is worth killing someone for. I don't agree.
Saying stuff that's quasi-relevant and then when challenged saying "I was being silly" is the thing I was talking about. And now here's that "I will surely die" fatalism stuff. Which is another one of those quasi-scummy things.
So what is the "confidence interval you would assign such a circumstance" then?
Why are you so certain that it's not a 50/50 split between the genders?
Pigeonhole me however you like in your Mafia 101 guidebook, for I am my own archetype.
I am not certain that it is not a 50/50 split. But that's not something I'd like to gamble heavy on, because I think it's more like...40% likely that it's 50/50. It could easily be an odd number of scum, especially if you have loner scums or neutrals, and if it is an even number of scum it may well not be 50/50.
@Wessel: Lessee... for lack of contribution, but me seeing her at the bottom of the thread a whole bunch of times when I'm reading the thread and then not posting, I think that A Bear is a massive lurker, which may or may not be a scum tell because I think this is her first game too.
I think IB is flailing town.
I'm reading Kank, Maokun and ferro_man as flailing noob.
I'm reading Tom and EtR as town for posting content.
I'm leaning GrickyTimmick and LampDwellr as scum on gut feeling. So don't ask for posts indicating such because it's just the feel I get from reading what they've posted thus far (so it's all their posts).
It's also quite a large game, so anyone that I haven't mentioned I've got a null read on.
I'm leaning GrickyTimmick and LampDwellr as scum on gut feeling. So don't ask for posts indicating such because it's just the feel I get from reading what they've posted thus far (so it's all their posts).
Try reading through their posts again, and quote any (or at least a couple) of their posts that gave you that feeling, then try to explain why.
"it's all their posts" is not reason enough, and it seems like you're just throwing suspicion at them without justification, which would be scummy if you weren't so new.
unvote; vote maokun a little self-aware, aren't we?
Horribly self aware about what exactly? That he is new to the site so doesn't know the meta. Heck due to the crafters the same could be said of half the game.
Whats Maokan done to ping you so badly to sick a vote on him so quickly.
Unvote the crafters
What's with the white-knighting, yo?
Seems out of place since I thought I explained Maokun's retaliatory voting practices.
Very well, I'll stop with the jokey votes then if it's time to really start playing.
Unvote
Yes, this is my first official Mafia game so feel free to label me with whatever sort of noob Post-It notes you desire. Be sure not to consider me using humor or sarcasm as a tell in either direction, because that's how I always am 24/7. (Feel free to check back in any of my 10,000+ posts.)
It's way too early for me to get a read on anyone yet, and no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it.
One of my all-time pet peeves is people who commit to playing a game and then never show up to play it.
With that said, I'll place my official vote on whoever shows up LAST, between Seppel and captaineddie.
I got no anti-noob bias; you don't look confused here. I think you'll probably be good at this game, actually.
I do have anti-"please don't think I'm scummy if I do X" bias, though. And - for example - I haven't voted yet, but I'm not making a show of not voting yet. A lot of new players don't want to die early in their first game, so it could be that. On the other hand, it could be...
Oh I totally get that me posting so much already is putting a target sign on my back, from either townies willing to jump on the Kankwagon because I seem to be so scummy, or from nervous scummers worried that I might be too active and able to root them out.
That is not why I am voting you and not why I said I was voting you, fwiw
Anyway, with so many people (half of which are absent), it might be a while before we actually get a train going... Or if the noobs are too noobeh, then it won't be too long before we get this train wreck going...
Yes... we can pretty much expect a lot of scumtells to be null with all the new players in this normal... Thanks Kank...
You're welcome!
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
If captaineddie ends up getting swapped out for Iso, then it will count at that time!
Why are you dodging? You looked up all the NORMALS in the past YEAR, that's a small fraction of the games played on this site and surely not enough to base reliable statistics off of, as I'm sure you're aware. So you are using this flawed logic as an excuse to steer clear of any incriminating vote history.
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal, it's got 23 people in it and there are strange new gender mechanics. This makes your research/justification even weaker. To support your stance, you would be better off researching specialities.
But yeah, this looks to me like dodging content in order to post safe things.
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
Interesting! I know why it'd be 75/25 or so in favor of a townie getting lynched, but why do you think it's 100%? That's a lot.
Quote from Kankennon »
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
I don't think "because townies usually get lynched I'm not gonna vote for anyone" is very reasonable. Townies getting lynched day one lets you check the wagon for the weakest justifications, and helps you scumhunt. It's virtually always protown to lynch SOMEBODY. I think I remember you saying you're kinda new at Mafia, is that true?
Very well, I'll stop with the jokey votes then if it's time to really start playing.
Unvote
Yes, this is my first official Mafia game so feel free to label me with whatever sort of noob Post-It notes you desire. Be sure not to consider me using humor or sarcasm as a tell in either direction, because that's how I always am 24/7. (Feel free to check back in any of my 10,000+ posts.)
It's way too early for me to get a read on anyone yet, and no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it.
One of my all-time pet peeves is people who commit to playing a game and then never show up to play it.
With that said, I'll place my official vote on whoever shows up LAST, between Seppel and captaineddie.
If by any chance, I see that someone else strikes me as a better candidate before either one of them posts, then by all means, I'll reserve my option to change my mind at that time.
Once again this "I'll vote for whoever checks in last" is the kind of content dodging that get's my attention. It acts as an excuse for legitimate vote reasoning, it acts as an excuse to not vote until one of them shows up last and it acts as an excuse to provide much content
Also, there's a contradiction in this post. Kank agrees that it's time for the jokey votes to be finished with, but I take his "vote for the last guy in" to be jokey. Whether it's jokey or not, it's a problem with me, but if it was intended as a joke, it's more of a problem because of his statement previously in the post.
Lastly, Kank, to finish this post, you claim that you would change your vote if someone strikes you as a better candidate. What things are you looking for that would point more towards someone being scum? What are you watching out for?
Vote Kankennon
Kank is a noob, to be sure, but he's the more experienced level of noob. He's been around the site for a while, has played in clan games before I believe and has got the gist of mafia. I believe he's on of those players that really wanted to be prepared for what they were getting into when they sign up for mafia. That being said, I'm keeping the noob excuse in my mind, but I'm not giving it as much thought as I would others. Moving on...
Kank's track record so far this game has consisted of two things: voting for people outside the game and digging into old game information. In other words, he's playing for appearances. Given the fact that he's been trying to justify his non-important votes, I'm inclined to believe it's an attempt to seem active while keeping the heat off of him. Secondly, while digging up old game information may seem townie and productive, the hard facts are that any player, town or scum, has access to those old games and can post those things. Scum tend to like to do it more, because it allows them to keep posting things that appear to be content.
I believe that Kank is smart enough to know that he's not going to be able to lurk through this game. Because he knows this, he's trying to make frequent posts yet still make them safe posts things he's not going to step on toes with.
I would like to hear from Kank about these matters.
This I find hilarious actually. If someone hands you a dog and calls it a cat, are you going to believe it's a cat and preach that it's a cat, even though it's clear that what you have is a dog?
Compare that to this game. Yes, the title of the thread says "Normal". Does that mean it's a normal? Hell no. The true definition of a normal would be a 12 or 24 man game with basic roles and no strange mechanics for the town to worry about. However, during the course of mafia on this website, the definitions of the different types of games (Basic, Normal, Specialties and Mini), have become loosened to allow for variation in order to avoid game stagnation. Basics are 12 man games that are generally the same, basic roles with no strange mechanics. Normals are bigger games with a few strange mechanics. Specialties games are bigger games with vastly different mechanics and Mini's are basics that have gone the normal/specialty way.
What I'm saying is that while this game falls into the normal definition of the website, one would have to account for the game mechanic difference and research the normals, specialties and minis to do proper research.
That being said, while this game is called "Normal" it is in no way anything normal. For Kahedron to base information by only looking at previous normals and only within the past year, it means that he's making a flawed statistical analysis. I would be tempted to agree if he had looked at all games within a year or if he had looked at all normal's ever played, but my argument was that his sample size was flawed and he was looking too strictly at "Normal" games.
I'll end my statement with this: comparing one normal to another normal is like comparing apples and a swedish coffee table. They may both be "normal" but still have nothing in common.
I will also say that I didn't read the "normal" classification in the thread title. To me, those things mean very little, because the lines between Normals and Specialties is very thin and sometimes poorly defined.
As for the analysis on Kank, I'd say that Kank is true to his word in that he's trying to explore the world of mafia on these forums. Since this is his (and my) first game, I think an appropriate amount of slack should be allowed for us having no idea what we're really doing. I said earlier that a lot of scum tells will turn up null and I believe this to be one of them. And as Kank said, if this leads to our early graves, then so be it. It'll definitely be a learning experience.
I'm accounting for slack on Kank. Maybe not enough, but I'd like to see his responses. What I'm not going to do is not pressure half the town because of the possible noobieness of my targets. That gets us nowhere. So, because of the level of saturation of noobs in the game, I'm very close to throwing the noob card straight out the window.
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
Yes... you are bad at quoting... Perhaps you should proofread your posts more carefully since there was also confusion on what you meant with the slip that you knew more about the set up than you did.
unvote; vote maokun a little self-aware, aren't we?
Horribly self aware about what exactly? That he is new to the site so doesn't know the meta. Heck due to the crafters the same could be said of half the game.
Whats Maokan done to ping you so badly to sick a vote on him so quickly.
Unvote the crafters
What's with the white-knighting, yo?
Seems out of place since I thought I explained Maokun's retaliatory voting practices.
Very well, I'll stop with the jokey votes then if it's time to really start playing.
Unvote
Yes, this is my first official Mafia game so feel free to label me with whatever sort of noob Post-It notes you desire. Be sure not to consider me using humor or sarcasm as a tell in either direction, because that's how I always am 24/7. (Feel free to check back in any of my 10,000+ posts.)
It's way too early for me to get a read on anyone yet, and no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it.
One of my all-time pet peeves is people who commit to playing a game and then never show up to play it.
With that said, I'll place my official vote on whoever shows up LAST, between Seppel and captaineddie.
I got no anti-noob bias; you don't look confused here. I think you'll probably be good at this game, actually.
I do have anti-"please don't think I'm scummy if I do X" bias, though. And - for example - I haven't voted yet, but I'm not making a show of not voting yet. A lot of new players don't want to die early in their first game, so it could be that. On the other hand, it could be...
Oh I totally get that me posting so much already is putting a target sign on my back, from either townies willing to jump on the Kankwagon because I seem to be so scummy, or from nervous scummers worried that I might be too active and able to root them out.
That is not why I am voting you and not why I said I was voting you, fwiw
Anyway, with so many people (half of which are absent), it might be a while before we actually get a train going... Or if the noobs are too noobeh, then it won't be too long before we get this train wreck going...
Yes... we can pretty much expect a lot of scumtells to be null with all the new players in this normal... Thanks Kank...
You're welcome!
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
If captaineddie ends up getting swapped out for Iso, then it will count at that time!
Why are you dodging? You looked up all the NORMALS in the past YEAR, that's a small fraction of the games played on this site and surely not enough to base reliable statistics off of, as I'm sure you're aware. So you are using this flawed logic as an excuse to steer clear of any incriminating vote history.
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal, it's got 23 people in it and there are strange new gender mechanics. This makes your research/justification even weaker. To support your stance, you would be better off researching specialities.
But yeah, this looks to me like dodging content in order to post safe things.
I checked back with all of the Normal Mafia games ran this year, and in every single one on Day 1, a townie was lynched.
The odds are that whoever everyone jumps on today will most likely be a townie as well.
Interesting! I know why it'd be 75/25 or so in favor of a townie getting lynched, but why do you think it's 100%? That's a lot.
Quote from Kankennon »
I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on the (currently) not-playing Iso.
I don't think "because townies usually get lynched I'm not gonna vote for anyone" is very reasonable. Townies getting lynched day one lets you check the wagon for the weakest justifications, and helps you scumhunt. It's virtually always protown to lynch SOMEBODY. I think I remember you saying you're kinda new at Mafia, is that true?
Very well, I'll stop with the jokey votes then if it's time to really start playing.
Unvote
Yes, this is my first official Mafia game so feel free to label me with whatever sort of noob Post-It notes you desire. Be sure not to consider me using humor or sarcasm as a tell in either direction, because that's how I always am 24/7. (Feel free to check back in any of my 10,000+ posts.)
It's way too early for me to get a read on anyone yet, and no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it.
One of my all-time pet peeves is people who commit to playing a game and then never show up to play it.
With that said, I'll place my official vote on whoever shows up LAST, between Seppel and captaineddie.
If by any chance, I see that someone else strikes me as a better candidate before either one of them posts, then by all means, I'll reserve my option to change my mind at that time.
Once again this "I'll vote for whoever checks in last" is the kind of content dodging that get's my attention. It acts as an excuse for legitimate vote reasoning, it acts as an excuse to not vote until one of them shows up last and it acts as an excuse to provide much content
Also, there's a contradiction in this post. Kank agrees that it's time for the jokey votes to be finished with, but I take his "vote for the last guy in" to be jokey. Whether it's jokey or not, it's a problem with me, but if it was intended as a joke, it's more of a problem because of his statement previously in the post.
Lastly, Kank, to finish this post, you claim that you would change your vote if someone strikes you as a better candidate. What things are you looking for that would point more towards someone being scum? What are you watching out for?
Vote Kankennon
Kank is a noob, to be sure, but he's the more experienced level of noob. He's been around the site for a while, has played in clan games before I believe and has got the gist of mafia. I believe he's on of those players that really wanted to be prepared for what they were getting into when they sign up for mafia. That being said, I'm keeping the noob excuse in my mind, but I'm not giving it as much thought as I would others. Moving on...
Kank's track record so far this game has consisted of two things: voting for people outside the game and digging into old game information. In other words, he's playing for appearances. Given the fact that he's been trying to justify his non-important votes, I'm inclined to believe it's an attempt to seem active while keeping the heat off of him. Secondly, while digging up old game information may seem townie and productive, the hard facts are that any player, town or scum, has access to those old games and can post those things. Scum tend to like to do it more, because it allows them to keep posting things that appear to be content.
I believe that Kank is smart enough to know that he's not going to be able to lurk through this game. Because he knows this, he's trying to make frequent posts yet still make them safe posts things he's not going to step on toes with.
I would like to hear from Kank about these matters.
This I find hilarious actually. If someone hands you a dog and calls it a cat, are you going to believe it's a cat and preach that it's a cat, even though it's clear that what you have is a dog?
Compare that to this game. Yes, the title of the thread says "Normal". Does that mean it's a normal? Hell no. The true definition of a normal would be a 12 or 24 man game with basic roles and no strange mechanics for the town to worry about. However, during the course of mafia on this website, the definitions of the different types of games (Basic, Normal, Specialties and Mini), have become loosened to allow for variation in order to avoid game stagnation. Basics are 12 man games that are generally the same, basic roles with no strange mechanics. Normals are bigger games with a few strange mechanics. Specialties games are bigger games with vastly different mechanics and Mini's are basics that have gone the normal/specialty way.
What I'm saying is that while this game falls into the normal definition of the website, one would have to account for the game mechanic difference and research the normals, specialties and minis to do proper research.
That being said, while this game is called "Normal" it is in no way anything normal. For Kahedron to base information by only looking at previous normals and only within the past year, it means that he's making a flawed statistical analysis. I would be tempted to agree if he had looked at all games within a year or if he had looked at all normal's ever played, but my argument was that his sample size was flawed and he was looking too strictly at "Normal" games.
I'll end my statement with this: comparing one normal to another normal is like comparing apples and a swedish coffee table. They may both be "normal" but still have nothing in common.
I will also say that I didn't read the "normal" classification in the thread title. To me, those things mean very little, because the lines between Normals and Specialties is very thin and sometimes poorly defined.
As for the analysis on Kank, I'd say that Kank is true to his word in that he's trying to explore the world of mafia on these forums. Since this is his (and my) first game, I think an appropriate amount of slack should be allowed for us having no idea what we're really doing. I said earlier that a lot of scum tells will turn up null and I believe this to be one of them. And as Kank said, if this leads to our early graves, then so be it. It'll definitely be a learning experience.
I'm accounting for slack on Kank. Maybe not enough, but I'd like to see his responses. What I'm not going to do is not pressure half the town because of the possible noobieness of my targets. That gets us nowhere. So, because of the level of saturation of noobs in the game, I'm very close to throwing the noob card straight out the window.
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
Yes... you are bad at quoting... Perhaps you should proofread your posts more carefully since there was also confusion on what you meant with the slip that you knew more about the set up than you did.
Does that make it any better WoD?
Yep, that's far better. I'm glad you aren't going to become an Iso that makes wild accusations and refuses to justify them
And maybe I will try that wild accusations thing the next time (or maybe it should be if ever) I play with Iso.
BTW, how do you properly multi-quote without having to go page by page and hitting quote on each post that I want to quote, then copying and pasting the quote? I know there's a mult-quote button, but I could never figure out how to use it. >.<
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
This has me a little confused. Can you please clarify it?
On my first read of it, I thought you were discussing the barn post that IB made and the people who jumped on him for doing so... but the votes were from EtR, Tom and then GrickyTimmick barns the same post IB does while explaining why IB's barn wasn't scummy
how did you get you and maokun unless i am vastly misunderstanding this
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
This has me a little confused. Can you please clarify it?
On my first read of it, I thought you were discussing the barn post that IB made and the people who jumped on him for doing so... but the votes were from EtR, Tom and then GrickyTimmick barns the same post IB does while explaining why IB's barn wasn't scummy
how did you get you and maokun unless i am vastly misunderstanding this
PG is right.
I was merely commenting about the people who were getting the barns on them other than myself at the time, and I couldn't see any good justification for barns on either of them.
A lot has happened since then.
I'd REALLY like the non-players to start playing.
I'm more annoyed by players not playing than I am by LampDwellr and GrickyTimmick deciding that I'm a baddie.
Again... saw A Bear viewing this thread and again... no post...
Vote: A Bear for massive lurking.
maybe if you stopped posting massive walls of text i'd be able to post
can't you just link to the post you want or quote the part you're replying to instead of the entire freakin essay come on
one thing i've gathered is that people seem to be copying others' opinions and not making their own. stop that. it's a bad habit.
even if your opinion is similar you should write it out because you may realize something that you didn't before while typing
for example while writing this i decided that wessel is my greenest townread because his longpost was basically a cliffnotes of this game so far so i am in debt to him and also he hasn't tried to twist anything with his observations like other people are doing (everyone)
Again... saw A Bear viewing this thread and again... no post...
Vote: A Bear for massive lurking.
maybe if you stopped posting massive walls of text i'd be able to post
can't you just link to the post you want or quote the part you're replying to instead of the entire freakin essay come on
one thing i've gathered is that people seem to be copying others' opinions and not making their own. stop that. it's a bad habit.
even if your opinion is similar you should write it out because you may realize something that you didn't before while typing
for example while writing this i decided that wessel is my greenest townread because his longpost was basically a cliffnotes of this game so far so i am in debt to him and also he hasn't tried to twist anything with his observations like other people are doing (everyone)
I have only multi-quoted on this page, so nice deflection there... And I only quoted all those posts at WoD's insistence. Also, don't you find it more bothersome that someone links to a post than just quoting the post?
And to sum things up, every other time I'm looking at this thread, I see you lurking... So content?
Then again, you could tl;dr the quotes... That or read faster...
I pretty much answered this in the same post I voted in.
It's not really that he is "attempting to seem more helpful" as it's quite clear that posting "/barn" isn't helpful at all (that's my whole point; why did he even post it??).
I believe he was attempting to seem more like town, however, in that his post aims to get us thinking "oh IB also thinks that we should start some real scum-hunting... he must be town".
As I said before, Wessel's post would probably have gotten the RVS stuff over with, whether IB had posted his "/barn" or not. His "/barn" was completely pointless, unless he was using it to get us to think he's town.
Unless I'm missing something, the "/barn" came before the "strong reasoning".
Or did you forget why you voted...?
Why post this? Seems like yet another post that is completely pointless and just serves the purpose to make us think you are town.
kinda hard ( i use the red background...) but i still could read it though.
The only thing I could think would be to have anything borderline suspicious into "oh, they're just new"....
But yea, I can see your point now...
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyYes, I forgot.
It was before. The vote came from mostly the /barn which I gave an explantation for in one post then added more in the next regarding the "strong reason" post.
Why are you waiting for trains to get going?
/barn
And I see nothing wrong with IB's barn. Votes on him for this reason are either scummy advantageous votes or votes of inexperience. I'm leaning inexperience at this point, for obvious reasons.
Why are you dodging? You looked up all the NORMALS in the past YEAR, that's a small fraction of the games played on this site and surely not enough to base reliable statistics off of, as I'm sure you're aware. So you are using this flawed logic as an excuse to steer clear of any incriminating vote history.
Also, there's nothing saying this game is a normal, it's got 23 people in it and there are strange new gender mechanics. This makes your research/justification even weaker. To support your stance, you would be better off researching specialities.
But yeah, this looks to me like dodging content in order to post safe things.
Once again this "I'll vote for whoever checks in last" is the kind of content dodging that get's my attention. It acts as an excuse for legitimate vote reasoning, it acts as an excuse to not vote until one of them shows up last and it acts as an excuse to provide much content
Also, there's a contradiction in this post. Kank agrees that it's time for the jokey votes to be finished with, but I take his "vote for the last guy in" to be jokey. Whether it's jokey or not, it's a problem with me, but if it was intended as a joke, it's more of a problem because of his statement previously in the post.
Lastly, Kank, to finish this post, you claim that you would change your vote if someone strikes you as a better candidate. What things are you looking for that would point more towards someone being scum? What are you watching out for?
This is the only legit reason for voting IB, but looking at IB's tone and the rest of his play this game, I'm inclined to think he's town that's got himself into hot water as usual.
Vote Kankennon
Kank is a noob, to be sure, but he's the more experienced level of noob. He's been around the site for a while, has played in clan games before I believe and has got the gist of mafia. I believe he's on of those players that really wanted to be prepared for what they were getting into when they sign up for mafia. That being said, I'm keeping the noob excuse in my mind, but I'm not giving it as much thought as I would others. Moving on...
Kank's track record so far this game has consisted of two things: voting for people outside the game and digging into old game information. In other words, he's playing for appearances. Given the fact that he's been trying to justify his non-important votes, I'm inclined to believe it's an attempt to seem active while keeping the heat off of him. Secondly, while digging up old game information may seem townie and productive, the hard facts are that any player, town or scum, has access to those old games and can post those things. Scum tend to like to do it more, because it allows them to keep posting things that appear to be content.
I believe that Kank is smart enough to know that he's not going to be able to lurk through this game. Because he knows this, he's trying to make frequent posts yet still make them safe posts things he's not going to step on toes with.
I would like to hear from Kank about these matters.
Also @Eron:
Are we reading the same game? I've come out against Maokun and am still waiting for Kahedron to explain to me why he's in the business of defending Maokun. I accumulated 3 votes for barning Wessel's post? Give me a break.
Forgetting why you voted while trying to push a case on it = Not townish
Read my points against him, and please explain what purpose his post served other than "look i'm town too". Do you actually think his "/barn" did anything except attempt to make himself look good?
Could you read the title of this thread and then explain exactly what you mean?
@IB: any particular reason why you quoted me in the first of your three posts and then didn't really say anything about it? You started your post with "Also", so I feel like there may be something missing.
That said his other behavior and response to pressure is scummy. His accusation of smearing and his broad reason vote of makoun
vote ib
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I think you are taking the /barn to an extreme. Had he barned a vote and placed his own, I would have a problem with it. However he was simply barning an understanding of the gamestate, which I read as a harmless agreement.
Secondly, you aren't accounting for any of his other posts in the game. You are pointing at the barn and saying "look at this guy trying to post content like he's actually playing!" when he is, in fact, actually playing and posting things aside from the barn. You're attack onto IB for nothing more than the barn is defeated by the fact that IB is obviously posting more than you are accounting for.
Lastly, if you have a problem with that barn and with barns in normal, then you are going to have a problem with me, with this game, with other players in the game and with the game in general. Barning, while it can sometimes be used to catch scum, is commonplace in mafia and is used by both town and scum equally. To catch a scum off of a barn is very situational, it depends on who's barning, how they are barning, who they are barning and what it is they are barning, among other things I'm sure. I know I barn a lot and I know plenty of other players who barn. It's a part of the game
As for what I believe IB was doing with his barn, I don't think it was a "Hey I'm a townie providing content!" post, it was more just a "Hey wessel's right guys" post. It let's the town know IB's mindset, that he too agrees that RVS is over.
Could you read the title of this thread and then explain exactly what you mean?[/QUOTE]
This I find hilarious actually. If someone hands you a dog and calls it a cat, are you going to believe it's a cat and preach that it's a cat, even though it's clear that what you have is a dog?
Compare that to this game. Yes, the title of the thread says "Normal". Does that mean it's a normal? Hell no. The true definition of a normal would be a 12 or 24 man game with basic roles and no strange mechanics for the town to worry about. However, during the course of mafia on this website, the definitions of the different types of games (Basic, Normal, Specialties and Mini), have become loosened to allow for variation in order to avoid game stagnation. Basics are 12 man games that are generally the same, basic roles with no strange mechanics. Normals are bigger games with a few strange mechanics. Specialties games are bigger games with vastly different mechanics and Mini's are basics that have gone the normal/specialty way.
What I'm saying is that while this game falls into the normal definition of the website, one would have to account for the game mechanic difference and research the normals, specialties and minis to do proper research.
That being said, while this game is called "Normal" it is in no way anything normal. For Kahedron to base information by only looking at previous normals and only within the past year, it means that he's making a flawed statistical analysis. I would be tempted to agree if he had looked at all games within a year or if he had looked at all normal's ever played, but my argument was that his sample size was flawed and he was looking too strictly at "Normal" games.
I'll end my statement with this: comparing one normal to another normal is like comparing apples and a swedish coffee table. They may both be "normal" but still have nothing in common.
I will also say that I didn't read the "normal" classification in the thread title. To me, those things mean very little, because the lines between Normals and Specialties is very thin and sometimes poorly defined.
I expect you to show where and how his behavior has been scummy. I'm officially comparing you to previous games because of this post.
Then I'm afraid I don't understand. You said his "/barn" happened after his "strong reasoning" post:
(bolded for emphasis)
There wasn't any other post in which he barned.
Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. Unvote
I do find it rather odd that his defense is coming from you rather than him, however...
Ok, fine. Didn't know that.
Did you forget who you were voting for? Kankennon is the one who did that, not Kahedron.
If you are asking what /barn is, I recommended using what was provided to you earlier:
Read please?
As for the analysis on Kank, I'd say that Kank is true to his word in that he's trying to explore the world of mafia on these forums. Since this is his (and my) first game, I think an appropriate amount of slack should be allowed for us having no idea what we're really doing. I said earlier that a lot of scum tells will turn up null and I believe this to be one of them. And as Kank said, if this leads to our early graves, then so be it. It'll definitely be a learning experience.
@Waiting for trains: I have no idea what I'm doing. Therefore, wait for train?
@Kank: I told you I should have done a basic first!
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You dismissing whatever he said about you (it was meta so I don't care if it's true or not, and have no inclination to find out... because meta is stupid) as a smear attempt is in fact smearing him, by attacking HIS credibility, by implying that he's being underhanded and trying to smear you.
Calling it a smear makes you seem jumpy, and is definitely an overreaction worth a vote.
General statement is general. I get that you voted for me because I outwardly warned of my use of humor and sarcasm, which obviously means that if you use it or even warn people that you plan to use humor/sarcasm no matter what, then that also brands you as scummy, no matter what.
Seriously, I only had like 15 minutes to check things out at the time, and I figured that checking Normal games was the best use of my time since this game has been labled a "Normal" game.
If this Normal game is not actually a Normal game, then so be it.
In any case, if Mafia players account for 25% of the players, then wouldn't you think they'd get hit at least 25% of the time out of the gate? All I found that it was an odd statistic that sampled a small portion of the total games played, yes.
Does it have any bearing in this game?
Probably not.
Feel free to throw facts and statistics around however you like.
I'm done looking up past game statistics and will focus my numbers on the game at hand.
Suit yourself. That was more along the lines of me stating that I didn't have a better candidate to pick yet and to incentivize people to actually play the game.
Other than weeding out the non-players right now, I was looking for behavior that seemed odd to me.
My own behavior, no matter what, will seem odd to some people and logical to others.
If I'm too late to the wagon on a scum player, then I'll appear scummy.
If I'm too early or too late to a townie lynching, then I'll also appear scummy.
I'm sure me just stating these things makes me appear scummy as well, since townies don't ever say anything of the sort ever.
What it all comes down to is that day one appears to just be a random lynching of whoever that usually ends up flipping town.
I'd rather that not be me.
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.
IB's /barn.
My vote.
IB's "Strong Reasoning" post Coming after everything else. I think that maybe it's a punctuation/wording issue.
Does the "this" make it more clear what I was trying to get across?
Oh, somehow I missed that the first time. Thanks and sorry for extreme n00bness.
Ah, I think you are right. My apologies.
It is definitely worded awkwardly, and the "this" would have helped.
I read it as "coming shortly after, he barned..."
While it is a defense, it's more of a pseudo defense. The vote reasoning that WoD posted was fine, but I was concerned with everyone voting IB for the barn. My "defense" of IB over the barn issue was more of me having a problem with everyone voting him for that reason. I saw it as weak vote reasoning.
That's a mistake. As long as both Kank and Kah are in this game, I'm going to mix them up.
Unless Kank changes his name to Billy for the duration of the game. I could never confuse that.
I'm accounting for slack on Kank. Maybe not enough, but I'd like to see his responses. What I'm not going to do is not pressure half the town because of the possible noobieness of my targets. That gets us nowhere. So, because of the level of saturation of noobs in the game, I'm very close to throwing the noob card straight out the window.
So you are just waiting for someone else to start a train so you can throw your vote on?
Was going to respond to Kank, but his response is misquoted and confuses me, so I'll do it tomorrow when I'm less tired about the whole thing.
I'm cool with LampDwellr's suspicions about me, but something about GrickyTimmick's methodology is throwing me off.
I didn't spot it in the posts he addressed me directly, but actually in Post #128 where he responded to Tom.
An educational diatribe on Mafia game subtypes?
Normal to Normal = Apples to Ikea?
This is more helpful than me pulling out some silly data on past Normal games simply because I wanted to feel like I was doing *something* constructive?
Oh, and if you want to have an easier time distinguishing between Kahedron and myself, just use my emoticon: then.
Yeah, I'd like to learn a little more about GrickyTimmick and since this seems like a good way to do it:
Unvote
Vote GrickyTimmick
Because I am not, I'm wondering what you see so bad in Maokun so soon that it was worth the first serious vote of the game. Me bringing up your self voting is more you are very aware that you do it which is what you appear to accusing Maokun of being So I am treating them both as what they are currently null tells.
Your sensitivity over the issue is interesting but in no way groundbreaking enough to warrant the below.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
At the time I didn't realise you had actually played Mafia before (on other forums). I saw a chance to push a newb and took it, hoping to get a reaction of some kind. As it is, your reaction was acceptable. Unvote.
Glad to see you're working to get the game moving, Wessel, but that list is just loaded with WIFOM. Not that we have much else to go on at this point, but it's worth noting for the rookies that that reasoning won't fly later in the game.
1 EtR
1 Ferro Man
1 Dork Knight
1 GrickyTimmick
1 Raging Levine
1 Reya
1 Kahedron
1 Misting
1 Wrath of Dog
1 InfectiousBaloth
1 Lamp Dwellr
1 Kankennon
1 Tom
1 Macius
1 Bolly
1 A Bear
1 Wessel
1 Stardust
1 pikachugundam
1 Maokun
1 Voxxicus
22 Kankennon
9 infectiousbaloth
9 EtR
9 Bolly
9 pikachugundam
8 Tom
7 LampDwellr
7 GrickyTimmick
7 Misting
7 Wessel
7 Maokun
6 Stardust
6 Macius
5 Kahedron
5 ferro_man
4 Wrath_of_DoG
4 Arcadic
3 Dork Knight
3 Reya Cookiebringer
3 A Bear
2 Raging Levine
1 Voxxicus
In other news, Tom, as per usual, is floundering. I don't see the solid scum hunting skills that Wessel was talking about, and frankly, Tom looks like the same sketchy player that got lynched in the two games of experience I have with her*. Vote: Tom.
*Please note, I will be referring to players' genders as the gender assigned to them in the game. I hope that doesn't offend anyone.
Nah, it seemed overly self-aware.
I think looking up past game statistics is pretty interesting and informative! So did you. You depart quickly, though. Why??
I think you would expect to hit scum about 15% of the time on D1, because scum represent only 25-30% of the players and scum can also vote, which increases the likelihood of a successful townie wagon. It's hard to hit scum unless they bus.
What I found interesting was the 100% part! It means that some of the things people in normals on THIS VERY FORUM are seeing as scummy probably aren't!
It's still protown to vote people.
Other than weeding out the non-players right now, I was looking for behavior that seemed odd to me.
My own behavior, no matter what, will seem odd to some people and logical to others.
If I'm too late to the wagon on a scum player, then I'll appear scummy.
If I'm too early or too late to a townie lynching, then I'll also appear scummy.
I'm sure me just stating these things makes me appear scummy as well, since townies don't ever say anything of the sort ever.
What it all comes down to is that day one appears to just be a random lynching of whoever that usually ends up flipping town.
I'd rather that not be me.
I don't plan on lurking in any game ever. Since I don't have past games of my own to rely upon, I have to make use of the past games of others, and I found it numerically odd that so far every day one lynch in the 23/24 player Normal games this year have hit a townie.
I'll stop with the odds from other games and focus on the odds for this one.
We have 23 players.
12 are male characters, 11 are female.
Mafia history would tell us that 25% of these players are scum, and the rest are townsfolk.
If so, that would mean that 6 players are likely to be scum or evil (Gotham had 5 scum and a serial killer).
It would make sense for Arcadic to split the scum/SK into equal halves between the genders, even though in reality, they'd pretty much all be male, but this is a game based on an animated television series and anything goes in those.
So, lets say that there are 3 baddies in the men and 3 baddies in the women.
Right now the males outnumber the females, and if they wanted to, they could team up and wipe out all of the females and practically assure themselves of hitting half of the baddies in the process.
I doubt that Arcadic planned the game to operate like that, so let's not okay? (I'm playing a female after all.)
So the barns are on IB, Maokun, and myself is that right?
I'm not seeing IB behave any differently than the other games I watched him get lynched early in and flip town.
Maokun? No idea. I'm not seeing the guilt you've lain upon this person.
If y'all want me dead instead, then so be it. I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. It would be a shame though, because I'd actually play the game as opposed to sit around and lurk.[/QUOTE]
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
HERE
Your assumption that there are 6 scum and 3 are male and 3 are female seems problematic for a number of reasons. Your reasoning from it also strikes me as spurious, because the order in which you kill people matters even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half-female - which is not the case.
Since we're gaming the setup a bit here, why do you think it is likely that there are an equal number of M/F scum, exactly?
Hitting half the baddies in 11 lynches is pretty horrible anyway, with nightkills included!
BUT ANYWAY, you're doing this thing through your posts where you're like "sorry I was really joking, sorry you couldn't tell, don't persecute me for making jokes!" If everything you say is half-serious this is a very convenient position for you, wouldn't you say?
unvote
I'll go back and read to see what I missed over the weekend later.
Purely speculative. Considering Arcadic made the gender split rougly half, it made more sense to me to split the baddies in half too. That may or may not be the case here, but I'd say the odds favor an even split as opposed to a 2/4 or 4/2 or even less balanced.
I actually used to have a banner that pretty much meant, "Kankennon is rarely 100% serious about anything. Read everything he posts with a grain of salt."
In all reality, the fact that I'm a jokester by nature will surely lead to my early death until people get used to me and say, "Oh that's just Kank. He does that no matter what side he's on."
Is there something you know about the scum splits here that the general public does not know?
Just how do you know that the split isn't half and half?
Lamp how do you know the lay out of the scum team??
I can think of a very good reason which leads us to
vote: LampDwellr
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Oh good heavens. Must be election season if we're quoting half-sentences now and someone else is barning it.
I'll quote a little more of the sentence:
It is not the case that [it is 90% likely that the scum are half-and-half], is what I was saying. An awkward sentence, but not as awkward as saying "even if you do decide that it's 90% likely the scum are half-male and half female - which is not actually the confidence interval I would assign such a circumstance."
~~~~~~
Back to the actual conversation.
You keep making this error where you think that people think that being silly is worth killing someone for. I don't agree.
Saying stuff that's quasi-relevant and then when challenged saying "I was being silly" is the thing I was talking about. And now here's that "I will surely die" fatalism stuff. Which is another one of those quasi-scummy things.
So what is the "confidence interval you would assign such a circumstance" then?
Why are you so certain that it's not a 50/50 split between the genders?
Pigeonhole me however you like in your Mafia 101 guidebook, for I am my own archetype.
By my estimate that would put roughly 17 of us into the townie/other categor(ies).
I could easily be off by 1 or 2, but I'd say this is a fair number to consider for now.
I think IB is flailing town.
I'm reading Kank, Maokun and ferro_man as flailing noob.
I'm reading Tom and EtR as town for posting content.
I'm leaning GrickyTimmick and LampDwellr as scum on gut feeling. So don't ask for posts indicating such because it's just the feel I get from reading what they've posted thus far (so it's all their posts).
It's also quite a large game, so anyone that I haven't mentioned I've got a null read on.
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"it's all their posts" is not reason enough, and it seems like you're just throwing suspicion at them without justification, which would be scummy if you weren't so new.
Seems out of place since I thought I explained Maokun's retaliatory voting practices.
Looks like noob smashing to me.
Seems a bit self-conscious.
More noob smashing.
Condescend much?
Waiting for Kank to respond? Didn't Kank already respond?
Yes... you are bad at quoting... Perhaps you should proofread your posts more carefully since there was also confusion on what you meant with the slip that you knew more about the set up than you did.
Does that make it any better WoD?
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And maybe I will try that wild accusations thing the next time (or maybe it should be if ever) I play with Iso.
BTW, how do you properly multi-quote without having to go page by page and hitting quote on each post that I want to quote, then copying and pasting the quote? I know there's a mult-quote button, but I could never figure out how to use it. >.<
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This has me a little confused. Can you please clarify it?
On my first read of it, I thought you were discussing the barn post that IB made and the people who jumped on him for doing so... but the votes were from EtR, Tom and then GrickyTimmick barns the same post IB does while explaining why IB's barn wasn't scummy
how did you get you and maokun unless i am vastly misunderstanding this
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Vote: A Bear for massive lurking.
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PG is right.
I was merely commenting about the people who were getting the barns on them other than myself at the time, and I couldn't see any good justification for barns on either of them.
A lot has happened since then.
I'd REALLY like the non-players to start playing.
I'm more annoyed by players not playing than I am by LampDwellr and GrickyTimmick deciding that I'm a baddie.
maybe if you stopped posting massive walls of text i'd be able to post
can't you just link to the post you want or quote the part you're replying to instead of the entire freakin essay come on
one thing i've gathered is that people seem to be copying others' opinions and not making their own. stop that. it's a bad habit.
even if your opinion is similar you should write it out because you may realize something that you didn't before while typing
for example while writing this i decided that wessel is my greenest townread because his longpost was basically a cliffnotes of this game so far so i am in debt to him and also he hasn't tried to twist anything with his observations like other people are doing (everyone)
I have only multi-quoted on this page, so nice deflection there... And I only quoted all those posts at WoD's insistence. Also, don't you find it more bothersome that someone links to a post than just quoting the post?
And to sum things up, every other time I'm looking at this thread, I see you lurking... So content?
Then again, you could tl;dr the quotes... That or read faster...
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