Essentially, a California school district as started a Yoga program for the kids in the morning. As far as results, they are finding that children are more focused and less sleepy during the day because of this program, and are looking to expand them.
The National Center for Law and Policy, a conservative christian advocacy group, is pressing to get the program removed from the school curriculum. The irony here is that this is the same group that lobbies for in-school prayer.
My question is this: How much religion or religious influence is too much in schools? It seems ironic to me that the same people who advocate for in-school prayer, abstinence-only education and intelligent design would be against another program with religious roots that has been shown to help children focus in school.
I should note that Yoga is basically stripped of any real religious significance.
So, why are programs with obvious religious agendas like intelligent design and abstinence-only education okay while programs with religious roots but no agenda like Yoga is not?
Yoga is being used as an easy exercise to get the blood flowing... Who cares if it has loose ties back to some other religion? Would those same parents not let their kids play with a lightsaber because it has ties back to Jedi? This also remind of the parents that didnt want their kids to read Harry potter because it encouraged witchcraft.
Religion has no business being in schools other than in the context of history and literature. Religious supporters tend to only support one agenda, their own religion. That is why you have a push for in school prayer and intelligent design but fighting against this. Those same groups would argue that the Jehovah's witness kid needs to say the pledge of allegence or be punished.
"Ain't nobody gonna tell my kids 'the way that they view the world, [...] 'the way that they make life decisions,' [...] 'shape the way that they regulate their emotions and the way that they view themselves.' I don't have the rhetoric or the inclination to compete!"
Let's take it as a given that "Hindu beliefs" are being repeated in the presence of the children. Why the fear over this? It is important to draw on many sources of teaching, and that's not specific to adult life or youth. No one is knocking the benefits in focus or exercise. What is even the starting point for disliking this 'athletics program'?
Is the strategy here, to prevent a monopolization or uneven support of a child's thought, by removing -all- sources of wisdom? Having them instructed in the ways of zero character teachings?
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Any religion is too much. That's what private schools and home schooling are for. There should not, and shall not be any endorsement of religion in public class rooms. Unless of course you want your child's Muslim teacher to begin teaching his students about Islam as well (with intent to convert, which is why any religions want to be taught in schools (when a person's mind is more likely to accept the absurd ideas and events in religious texts)).
The same people that complain about a school program like this are the same type of people that claim Obama can't take office because he's not a natural born citizen. They are afraid of everything and everyone that is even the slightest bit different. These are the type of people that are represented by members of congress that voted against a UN Treaty to adopt the exact same standards of living we give our disabled people in the US.
In short they are idiots and *******s that have a twisted, distorted, completely bigoted view of reality. There are probably still counties in which it's illegal to dance. In these people's minds Yoga is the act of moving in a provocative nature (even worse than dancing) so as to whore one's self to a Hindu God.
Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
Speaking as a Christian, specific conversations about or policies based on a particular faith need to be kept out of the formal education process. As Fluffy Bunny wrote (I just love typing that, as I envision a large, pink rabbit at a keyboard), religion is not fact, it's faith, so discussion of any religion, outside of the "this is what Religion X believes, and here is what Religion Y believes, etc." instruction, is not something the public school system in America should engage in. It has to be all-inclusive, which means that the Christian, Muslim, Catholic, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, and seeking kids have to all feel comfortable there without having a specific set of beliefs thrust upon them.
If someone wants their child educated in a religious environment, there are private schools that are more than happy to have your child attend and you to pay for it. My wife and I did this the past two years (the first out of necessity, as our local public school district did not have full-day kindergarten, and this year because we are not happy with either the leadership of our local district or the educational standards in the district), but we will be moving to another district this spring and our daughters will be attending public school there next fall. That is not to say that we will not continue to discuss and work to develop their faith, but that we will do so within the confines of our home and church.
In this case, it's one whiny group that wants its way and isn't concerned that its actions are hypocritical. This is how America is now, unfortunately, where almost everyone has a personal agenda and doesn't care if they trample on someone else's rights to achieve their goal.
Any religion is too much. That's what private schools and home schooling are for. There should not, and shall not be any endorsement of religion in public class rooms. Unless of course you want your child's Muslim teacher to begin teaching his students about Islam as well (with intent to convert, which is why any religions want to be taught in schools (when a person's mind is more likely to accept the absurd ideas and events in religious texts)).
The same people that complain about a school program like this are the same type of people that claim Obama can't take office because he's not a natural born citizen. They are afraid of everything and everyone that is even the slightest bit different. These are the type of people that are represented by members of congress that voted against a UN Treaty to adopt the exact same standards of living we give our disabled people in the US.
Wait wait wait. I'm confused. Do you, or do you not have a problem with religion being in schools? Because you start out buy saying any amount is too much, and then say anybody complaining about a program like this is an idiot.
Which one is it?
In my view, this is no more (and no less) innocuous than having a "Christmas party" in December. If thats not allowable, then this also shouldn't be allowable. If that is allowable, then this should also be allowable.
In short they are idiots and *******s that have a twisted, distorted, completely bigoted view of reality. There are probably still counties in which it's illegal to dance. In these people's minds Yoga is the act of moving in a provocative nature (even worse than dancing) so as to whore one's self to a Hindu God.
Wow... you don't know a damn thing about Yoga, do you? Yoga "Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग, /ˈjəʊɡə/, yoga) is a commonly known generic term for physical, mental, and spiritual disciplines which originated in ancient India.[1][2] Specifically, yoga is one of the six āstika ("orthodox") schools of Hindu philosophy. One of the most detailed and thorough expositions on the subject are the Yoga Sūtras of Patañjali. Various traditions of yoga are found in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.[3][4][5]" (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga)
The idea that Yoga is based in spirituality is not some misconception. It's fact. The real question is how much of that original base has made it over into the classroom. If its just "ok lets do our morning stretches" and they do some Yoga stretches -- whatever. Clearly theres no religious implications. But if it goes into more details and starts discussing spirituality and cleansing the spirit, etc. then it crosses the line into "shouldn't be in school".
In this case, it's one whiny group that wants its way and isn't concerned that its actions are hypocritical. This is how America is now, unfortunately, where almost everyone has a personal agenda and doesn't care if they trample on someone else's rights to achieve their goal.
What makes you say that? I haven't seen anything showing or saying that the group of parents opposed to this are pushing for introducing Christian concepts (or any religion really) in school.
Or, wait, no. You couldn't have been completely making that up could you have? No. that would be silly and unfounded.
Any amount of religion is too much in a public school. If you wish to teach your child about religion there are Sunday schools that can help you out. Personally I believe no one should be forced into any one religion. Faith is something that needs to be found on your own. If you ask a most people of any religion why they are 'X' religion, you are going to hear because their family, parents are that religion.
That all said, if the Yoga class was truly just something to get the blood flowing and not a teaching of a western religion, I would have no problem with it being taught in a school my children were attending.
"Christmas party" in December
The term now is holiday party, not Christmas. Its also winter break, instead of Christmas break, and spring break instead of Easter vacation. The public school system has done a very good job of removing religion in the public school system.
The term now is holiday party, not Christmas. Its also winter break, instead of Christmas break, and spring break instead of Easter vacation. The public school system has done a very good job of removing religion in the public school system.
That was more or less my point. If labeling a party "Christmas party" is offensive enough to warrant action, then Yoga classes that mention spirtuality would likewise be offensive enough.
If they want to call them "morning stretches" and pretend they aren't yoga, even though they really are... How is that different than having a "holiday party" at the end of December before "winter break" -- which oddly enough always happens to encompass Christmas.
The term now is holiday party, not Christmas. Its also winter break, instead of Christmas break, and spring break instead of Easter vacation. The public school system has done a very good job of removing religion in the public school system.
That was more or less my point. If labeling a party "Christmas party" is offensive enough to warrant action, then Yoga classes that mention spirtuality would likewise be offensive enough.
If they want to call them "morning stretches" and pretend they aren't yoga, even though they really are... How is that different than having a "holiday party" at the end of December before "winter break" -- which oddly enough always happens to encompass Christmas.
If enough kids got a positive effect out of it, they probably will just change the name to morning stretches just to appease those trying to stop the 'religious' act.
The term now is holiday party, not Christmas. Its also winter break, instead of Christmas break, and spring break instead of Easter vacation. The public school system has done a very good job of removing religion in the public school system.
I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (signs point to yes), but I want to comment on it regardless for general purposes, because even if you are joking, I know plenty of people who don't see any irony in that.
It's still the 'Holiday Party' for Christmas. If it was Hanukkah it'd be earlier. Don't get me wrong, everyone loves winter break, but it IS specifically for Christmas and New Years. Changing it to Winter Break or Holiday Party doesn't remove the fact that there is always the Christmas Element.
It's hard to get a real perspective on this (even as an athiest or agnostic), unless you experience it from the point of view of someone who just flat out does not have a Christian history. They adapt to it, but Christmas is still a culture shock for my Hindu fiancee. My Hindu, Muslim and Jewish friends growing up all said the same thing - it's weird. Dressing it up as a 'holiday' party when everyone knows the holiday you are celebrating is a little disingenuous. It only occasionally overlaps with Hanukkah, and if it were about New Years it would be a New Years Party. Spring Break is the same way.
Now, to be fair Christmas is so commercialized at this point that it might as well be secular, and most of the non-Christians I know exchange gifts with friends (just not at home with family).
Wait wait wait. I'm confused. Do you, or do you not have a problem with religion being in schools? Because you start out buy saying any amount is too much, and then say anybody complaining about a program like this is an idiot.
Which one is it?
In my view, this is no more (and no less) innocuous than having a "Christmas party" in December. If thats not allowable, then this also shouldn't be allowable. If that is allowable, then this should also be allowable.
What the hell are you talking about? This is complete nonsense. I say that because...
Wow... you don't know a damn thing about Yoga, do you?
Outside of doing it every week? There is no religion in the vast majority of Yoga classes. The instructors encourage calmness, meditation, the flow of energy. I have had several different instructors and none of them have ever made any comments I would take as religious. And believe me, I would notice.
If you want it to be called something besides Yoga, I suppose I wouldn’t argue with that. But most Yoga is not religious in nature.
Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
What makes you say that? I haven't seen anything showing or saying that the group of parents opposed to this are pushing for introducing Christian concepts (or any religion really) in school.
From the article:
Quote from The linked article »
But when Mary Eady visited one of the yoga classes at her son's school last year, she saw much more than a fitness program.
"They were being taught to thank the sun for their lives and the warmth that it brought, the life that it brought to the earth and they were told to do that right before they did their sun salutation exercises," she says.
Those looked like religious teachings to her, so she opted to keep her son out of the classes. The more Eady reads about the Jois Foundation and its founders' beliefs in the spiritual benefits of Ashtanga yoga, the more she's convinced that the poses and meditation can't be separated from their Hindu roots.
"It's stated in the curriculum that it's meant to shape the way that they view the world, it's meant to shape the way that they make life decisions," Eady says. "It's meant to shape the way that they regulate their emotions and the way that they view themselves."
Eady is part of a group of parents working with Dean Broyles, president and chief counsel of the Escondido-based National Center for Law and Policy.
The important part is bolded. So what does the National Center for Law and Policy want?
From their page on the rights of students:
Freedom of Belief/Rights of Religious Conscience
Prayers and Moments of Silence
On-Campus Bible Clubs
Witnessing on Campus
Event Invitation Flyers
See You at the Pole
Class Assignments & Religious Viewpoints
Day of Truth
Release Time Programs
Graduation Speeches and Prayers
Baccalaureate Programs
Opting Out of Objectionable Programs
Acknowledgment of Religious Holidays
Confidential Medical Release
Talent Show Participation
I've bolded the parts of their agenda that run contrary to their own position here. Unless their position is more strictly limited in that they don't want any religion other than Christianity allowed in public schools.
Personally, depending on the verbal content of the course, the class should be okay. I did Ashtanga Yoga back in college and the instructor was very good about keeping the religious aspects separate from the stretches themselves. The names of some of them certainly call back to Yoga's religious roots, but names can be changed.
My biggest issue with Mary Eady, besides her hypocrisy, is her inability to understand basic education:
Quote from Mary Eady, advocate of active ignorance »
It's stated in the curriculum that it's meant to shape the way that they view the world, it's meant to shape the way that they make life decisions. It's meant to shape the way that they regulate their emotions and the way that they view themselves.
No ****. Does Ms. Eady have the same problems with other classes? Courses on world culture and chemistry are designed to shape the way you view the world and influence how you make life decisions. Her comment, in my opinion, makes it appear as though she wants kids to not think critically about the world and themselves, to not be challenged mentally, physically, and emotionally.
Ms. Eady and friends make me angry because they are willing to set back the advancement of not only their own children but the children of everyone else. Why?
Wow... you don't know a damn thing about Yoga, do you?
Outside of doing every week? There is no religion in the vast majority of Yoga classes. The instructors encourage calmness, meditation, the flow of energy. I have had several different instructors and none of them have ever made any comments I would take as religious. And believe me, I would notice.
Ahh, yes. I see. So, because your experiences and your instructors have stripped all religious connotations (evidently the haven't... "flow of energy" my butt) necessarily means that these completely different instructors, in a completely different state, have done the same thing.
If you want it to be called something besides Yoga, I suppose I wouldn’t argue with that. But most Yoga is not religious in nature.
Just like most Christmas parties aren't religious in nature. And yet we still don't have them because of the origination in religion. We have "holiday parties" instead.
Really though, I don't see how you can buy into the "flow of energy" and claim that Yoga doesn't have religious aspects.
What makes you say that? I haven't seen anything showing or saying that the group of parents opposed to this are pushing for introducing Christian concepts (or any religion really) in school.
Fair enough, when I said I haven't seen it thats what I meant. Perhaps they are being somewhat hypocritical. but, that doesn't necessarily make them *wrong* this time.
"They were being taught to thank the sun for their lives and the warmth that it brought, the life that it brought to the earth and they were told to do that right before they did their sun salutation exercises," she says.
Those looked like religious teachings to her, so she opted to keep her son out of the classes. The more Eady reads about the Jois Foundation and its founders' beliefs in the spiritual benefits of Ashtanga yoga, the more she's convinced that the poses and meditation can't be separated from their Hindu roots.
"It's stated in the curriculum that it's meant to shape the way that they view the world, it's meant to shape the way that they make life decisions," Eady says. "It's meant to shape the way that they regulate their emotions and the way that they view themselves."
*IF* we take this statement at face value, then it's pretty easy to note that the religious aspects haven't been stripped from the classes. At least, not entirely. That isn't to say they can't be. It's just saying they haven't been.
Personally, depending on the verbal content of the course, the class should be okay. I did Ashtanga Yoga back in college and the instructor was very good about keeping the religious aspects separate from the stretches themselves. The names of some of them certainly call back to Yoga's religious roots, but names can be changed.
This is more or less the exact position I've held the entire thread.
Fair enough, when I said I haven't seen it thats what I meant. Perhaps they are being somewhat hypocritical. but, that doesn't necessarily make them *wrong* this time.
Of course. But it does make me take their indignation with a grain of salt. I don't have access to the course content and I want to side with the school simply because I know their parents who are complaining have an agenda that runs counter to their complaints.
*IF* we take this statement at face value, then it's pretty easy to note that the religious aspects haven't been stripped from the classes. At least, not entirely. That isn't to say they can't be. It's just saying they haven't been.
Here's where my skepticism over Ms. Eady's indignation begins. Because I know this lady doesn't want no religion in public schools but rather just her religion, I'm very cautious about taking her statement at face value. I'm more inclined to believe she's setting up a strawman (most likely by exaggerating the content).
Of course I could be completely wrong and the course contains verbatim Hindu prayers. If that is the case then Ms. Eady is completely entitled to her indignation and I'll support her righteous crusade. However, rhetorically she's double-talking.
I think the biggest issue I have with this whole topic is the blatant double speak rhetoric from a lot of the posters here.
The same people who would say that anything even remotely Christian needs to be removed from the school environment seem to have absolutely no problem with the utilization of Yoga classes in the school. It appears to me, then, that these people do not have the establishment clause in mind when they oppose Christianity in schools, but are actually opposed to Christianity specifically and are using the establishment clause as a tool to achieve that end.
Essentially, they are guilty of the very same thing Which Nis has identified Mrs. Eddy of being guilty of.
I think that comes from a misunderstanding. If they were purely doing yoga as a physical activity then I see no reason to care that the physical activity was developed by a religious group. If there were however also teaching religious views (prayers, scriptures) then it crosses the line.
Similarly it isnt religious to teach children not to murder even though in the christian Bible it specifically says thou shalt not kill. The line there would be crossed if they told children they shouldn't commit murder because it's a sin.
Really though, I don't see how you can buy into the "flow of energy" and claim that Yoga doesn't have religious aspects.
Does energy not exists? Does it not flow? I don't know what your objection is. Explain how this is religious in nature.
If the school is using some form of religiously inspired Yoga I was certainly want it to be replaced with secular version.
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Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
Really though, I don't see how you can buy into the "flow of energy" and claim that Yoga doesn't have religious aspects.
Does energy not exists? Does it not flow? I don't know what your objection is. Explain how this is religious in nature.
In what manner are you using "flow" and "energy"? Because the answer is, unless you are talking about electrical impulses through the nerve system... no. Energy doesn't flow through you.
Maybe if we had a history of attempted curriculum take overs by conservative hindu groups we might get a bit touch over stuff like "energy flow through you" (which, like blatch said, loosely accurate when taken from a certain point of view.), however, we don't.
The term now is holiday party, not Christmas. Its also winter break, instead of Christmas break, and spring break instead of Easter vacation. The public school system has done a very good job of removing religion in the public school system.
I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (signs point to yes), but I want to comment on it regardless for general purposes, because even if you are joking, I know plenty of people who don't see any irony in that.
It's still the 'Holiday Party' for Christmas. If it was Hanukkah it'd be earlier. Don't get me wrong, everyone loves winter break, but it IS specifically for Christmas and New Years. Changing it to Winter Break or Holiday Party doesn't remove the fact that there is always the Christmas Element.
It's hard to get a real perspective on this (even as an athiest or agnostic), unless you experience it from the point of view of someone who just flat out does not have a Christian history. They adapt to it, but Christmas is still a culture shock for my Hindu fiancee. My Hindu, Muslim and Jewish friends growing up all said the same thing - it's weird. Dressing it up as a 'holiday' party when everyone knows the holiday you are celebrating is a little disingenuous. It only occasionally overlaps with Hanukkah, and if it were about New Years it would be a New Years Party. Spring Break is the same way.
Now, to be fair Christmas is so commercialized at this point that it might as well be secular, and most of the non-Christians I know exchange gifts with friends (just not at home with family).
It wasnt a joke or tongue in cheek. I was being completely serious.
I feel the same way about what you bring up as I do about speaking English in America. You live in America, you conform to American customs. Its not everyone elses job to conform to the customs of someone who comes from some place else in the world. Go to any where else in the world and you are expected to conform to their customs, America should be no different.
Maybe if we had a history of attempted curriculum take overs by conservative hindu groups we might get a bit touch over stuff like "energy flow through you" (which, like blatch said, loosely accurate when taken from a certain point of view.), however, we don't.
Wait... I am a bit confused. Are you stating that because they don't have a history of violating the first amendment, its not a big deal if they do violate it? (I don't think thats what you mean, but thats what it sounds like to me).
Maybe if we had a history of attempted curriculum take overs by conservative hindu groups we might get a bit touch over stuff like "energy flow through you" (which, like blatch said, loosely accurate when taken from a certain point of view.), however, we don't.
Isn't this an "attempted curriculum take over" by a (conservative?) hindu group? This appears to be a religious organization which has paid the school system to let them come and instruct children in their religious rituals every day. I don't see how that can possibly be acceptable.
I feel really hesitant to pass judgment on this without actually witnessing one of the sessions. "Do these exercises," regardless of the origins of the exercises, is not religious. "We are now saluting the sun" is pretty close to borderline.
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/09/168613461/promoting-hinduism-parents-demand-removal-of-school-yoga-class
Essentially, a California school district as started a Yoga program for the kids in the morning. As far as results, they are finding that children are more focused and less sleepy during the day because of this program, and are looking to expand them.
The National Center for Law and Policy, a conservative christian advocacy group, is pressing to get the program removed from the school curriculum. The irony here is that this is the same group that lobbies for in-school prayer.
My question is this: How much religion or religious influence is too much in schools? It seems ironic to me that the same people who advocate for in-school prayer, abstinence-only education and intelligent design would be against another program with religious roots that has been shown to help children focus in school.
I should note that Yoga is basically stripped of any real religious significance.
So, why are programs with obvious religious agendas like intelligent design and abstinence-only education okay while programs with religious roots but no agenda like Yoga is not?
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Yoga is being used as an easy exercise to get the blood flowing... Who cares if it has loose ties back to some other religion? Would those same parents not let their kids play with a lightsaber because it has ties back to Jedi? This also remind of the parents that didnt want their kids to read Harry potter because it encouraged witchcraft.
Religion has no business being in schools other than in the context of history and literature. Religious supporters tend to only support one agenda, their own religion. That is why you have a push for in school prayer and intelligent design but fighting against this. Those same groups would argue that the Jehovah's witness kid needs to say the pledge of allegence or be punished.
Let's take it as a given that "Hindu beliefs" are being repeated in the presence of the children. Why the fear over this? It is important to draw on many sources of teaching, and that's not specific to adult life or youth. No one is knocking the benefits in focus or exercise. What is even the starting point for disliking this 'athletics program'?
Is the strategy here, to prevent a monopolization or uneven support of a child's thought, by removing -all- sources of wisdom? Having them instructed in the ways of zero character teachings?
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The same people that complain about a school program like this are the same type of people that claim Obama can't take office because he's not a natural born citizen. They are afraid of everything and everyone that is even the slightest bit different. These are the type of people that are represented by members of congress that voted against a UN Treaty to adopt the exact same standards of living we give our disabled people in the US.
In short they are idiots and *******s that have a twisted, distorted, completely bigoted view of reality. There are probably still counties in which it's illegal to dance. In these people's minds Yoga is the act of moving in a provocative nature (even worse than dancing) so as to whore one's self to a Hindu God.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
If someone wants their child educated in a religious environment, there are private schools that are more than happy to have your child attend and you to pay for it. My wife and I did this the past two years (the first out of necessity, as our local public school district did not have full-day kindergarten, and this year because we are not happy with either the leadership of our local district or the educational standards in the district), but we will be moving to another district this spring and our daughters will be attending public school there next fall. That is not to say that we will not continue to discuss and work to develop their faith, but that we will do so within the confines of our home and church.
In this case, it's one whiny group that wants its way and isn't concerned that its actions are hypocritical. This is how America is now, unfortunately, where almost everyone has a personal agenda and doesn't care if they trample on someone else's rights to achieve their goal.
Wait wait wait. I'm confused. Do you, or do you not have a problem with religion being in schools? Because you start out buy saying any amount is too much, and then say anybody complaining about a program like this is an idiot.
Which one is it?
In my view, this is no more (and no less) innocuous than having a "Christmas party" in December. If thats not allowable, then this also shouldn't be allowable. If that is allowable, then this should also be allowable.
Wow... you don't know a damn thing about Yoga, do you? Yoga "Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग, /ˈjəʊɡə/, yoga) is a commonly known generic term for physical, mental, and spiritual disciplines which originated in ancient India.[1][2] Specifically, yoga is one of the six āstika ("orthodox") schools of Hindu philosophy. One of the most detailed and thorough expositions on the subject are the Yoga Sūtras of Patañjali. Various traditions of yoga are found in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.[3][4][5]" (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga)
The idea that Yoga is based in spirituality is not some misconception. It's fact. The real question is how much of that original base has made it over into the classroom. If its just "ok lets do our morning stretches" and they do some Yoga stretches -- whatever. Clearly theres no religious implications. But if it goes into more details and starts discussing spirituality and cleansing the spirit, etc. then it crosses the line into "shouldn't be in school".
What makes you say that? I haven't seen anything showing or saying that the group of parents opposed to this are pushing for introducing Christian concepts (or any religion really) in school.
Or, wait, no. You couldn't have been completely making that up could you have? No. that would be silly and unfounded.
That all said, if the Yoga class was truly just something to get the blood flowing and not a teaching of a western religion, I would have no problem with it being taught in a school my children were attending.
The term now is holiday party, not Christmas. Its also winter break, instead of Christmas break, and spring break instead of Easter vacation. The public school system has done a very good job of removing religion in the public school system.
That was more or less my point. If labeling a party "Christmas party" is offensive enough to warrant action, then Yoga classes that mention spirtuality would likewise be offensive enough.
If they want to call them "morning stretches" and pretend they aren't yoga, even though they really are... How is that different than having a "holiday party" at the end of December before "winter break" -- which oddly enough always happens to encompass Christmas.
If enough kids got a positive effect out of it, they probably will just change the name to morning stretches just to appease those trying to stop the 'religious' act.
I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not (signs point to yes), but I want to comment on it regardless for general purposes, because even if you are joking, I know plenty of people who don't see any irony in that.
It's still the 'Holiday Party' for Christmas. If it was Hanukkah it'd be earlier. Don't get me wrong, everyone loves winter break, but it IS specifically for Christmas and New Years. Changing it to Winter Break or Holiday Party doesn't remove the fact that there is always the Christmas Element.
It's hard to get a real perspective on this (even as an athiest or agnostic), unless you experience it from the point of view of someone who just flat out does not have a Christian history. They adapt to it, but Christmas is still a culture shock for my Hindu fiancee. My Hindu, Muslim and Jewish friends growing up all said the same thing - it's weird. Dressing it up as a 'holiday' party when everyone knows the holiday you are celebrating is a little disingenuous. It only occasionally overlaps with Hanukkah, and if it were about New Years it would be a New Years Party. Spring Break is the same way.
Now, to be fair Christmas is so commercialized at this point that it might as well be secular, and most of the non-Christians I know exchange gifts with friends (just not at home with family).
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What the hell are you talking about? This is complete nonsense. I say that because...
Outside of doing it every week? There is no religion in the vast majority of Yoga classes. The instructors encourage calmness, meditation, the flow of energy. I have had several different instructors and none of them have ever made any comments I would take as religious. And believe me, I would notice.
If you want it to be called something besides Yoga, I suppose I wouldn’t argue with that. But most Yoga is not religious in nature.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
From the article:
The important part is bolded. So what does the National Center for Law and Policy want?
From their page on the rights of students:
Personally, depending on the verbal content of the course, the class should be okay. I did Ashtanga Yoga back in college and the instructor was very good about keeping the religious aspects separate from the stretches themselves. The names of some of them certainly call back to Yoga's religious roots, but names can be changed.
My biggest issue with Mary Eady, besides her hypocrisy, is her inability to understand basic education:
No ****. Does Ms. Eady have the same problems with other classes? Courses on world culture and chemistry are designed to shape the way you view the world and influence how you make life decisions. Her comment, in my opinion, makes it appear as though she wants kids to not think critically about the world and themselves, to not be challenged mentally, physically, and emotionally.
Ms. Eady and friends make me angry because they are willing to set back the advancement of not only their own children but the children of everyone else. Why?
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Ahh, yes. I see. So, because your experiences and your instructors have stripped all religious connotations (evidently the haven't... "flow of energy" my butt) necessarily means that these completely different instructors, in a completely different state, have done the same thing.
Just like most Christmas parties aren't religious in nature. And yet we still don't have them because of the origination in religion. We have "holiday parties" instead.
Really though, I don't see how you can buy into the "flow of energy" and claim that Yoga doesn't have religious aspects.
*IF* we take this statement at face value, then it's pretty easy to note that the religious aspects haven't been stripped from the classes. At least, not entirely. That isn't to say they can't be. It's just saying they haven't been.
This is more or less the exact position I've held the entire thread.
Of course. But it does make me take their indignation with a grain of salt. I don't have access to the course content and I want to side with the school simply because I know their parents who are complaining have an agenda that runs counter to their complaints.
Here's where my skepticism over Ms. Eady's indignation begins. Because I know this lady doesn't want no religion in public schools but rather just her religion, I'm very cautious about taking her statement at face value. I'm more inclined to believe she's setting up a strawman (most likely by exaggerating the content).
Of course I could be completely wrong and the course contains verbatim Hindu prayers. If that is the case then Ms. Eady is completely entitled to her indignation and I'll support her righteous crusade. However, rhetorically she's double-talking.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
The same people who would say that anything even remotely Christian needs to be removed from the school environment seem to have absolutely no problem with the utilization of Yoga classes in the school. It appears to me, then, that these people do not have the establishment clause in mind when they oppose Christianity in schools, but are actually opposed to Christianity specifically and are using the establishment clause as a tool to achieve that end.
Essentially, they are guilty of the very same thing Which Nis has identified Mrs. Eddy of being guilty of.
Similarly it isnt religious to teach children not to murder even though in the christian Bible it specifically says thou shalt not kill. The line there would be crossed if they told children they shouldn't commit murder because it's a sin.
http://www.ashtangayogacenter.com/index.html
Which practices a specific form a yoga, which is quite clearly religious:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_Vinyasa_Yoga
Let the kids do morning stretches. Don't bring in nutjobs from the local new-age center.
Does energy not exists? Does it not flow? I don't know what your objection is. Explain how this is religious in nature.
If the school is using some form of religiously inspired Yoga I was certainly want it to be replaced with secular version.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
In what manner are you using "flow" and "energy"? Because the answer is, unless you are talking about electrical impulses through the nerve system... no. Energy doesn't flow through you.
It wasnt a joke or tongue in cheek. I was being completely serious.
I feel the same way about what you bring up as I do about speaking English in America. You live in America, you conform to American customs. Its not everyone elses job to conform to the customs of someone who comes from some place else in the world. Go to any where else in the world and you are expected to conform to their customs, America should be no different.
Wait... I am a bit confused. Are you stating that because they don't have a history of violating the first amendment, its not a big deal if they do violate it? (I don't think thats what you mean, but thats what it sounds like to me).
Isn't this an "attempted curriculum take over" by a (conservative?) hindu group? This appears to be a religious organization which has paid the school system to let them come and instruct children in their religious rituals every day. I don't see how that can possibly be acceptable.
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