So, I went to the World of Warcraft preprelease with some of my friends last month. While I was there, I picked up a few cards, including Ivus, the Forest Lord, an epic. I immediately sold him on eBay for the sum of $14.25, including shipping. I sent the item (without tracking). The buyer claims he never received the item. I offered a partial refund of $7 (more than enough to buy a new Ivus now, as the price has fallen), but he is unwilling to accept the offer. Now he claims he can file a paypal claim and get all of the money.
Some other things worth noting:
1) This guy has six bid retraction in the last six months.
2) He said his "computer was down" lately and took a long time to respond to my offer, yet has posted feedback for other users on the 28th and on the 1st, after I sent him the offer on the 24th and again on the 28th.
3) The auction clearly stated that priority mail, delivery confirmation, insurance, and other services were available at the buyer's expense. He paid for none of these.
4) I only have 74 feedback on eBay and I intend to sell a Timetwister there in short order. A negative for me would be very bad here, as I have none.
So, what should I do and what are my options? Can he realistically get all of the money from a paypal claim? Should I just accept the loss of $14 and move on? Or should I fight this guy?
Those with eBay selling experience preferred, but others are welcome to comment also. Thanks.
... well, you do state that if the buyer wanted insurance that it was available at his expense, along with the other frills of shipping. It sounds like that that what you are saying is that I ship the item, thats it, I get your money and if you get your card, great. If you don't, oh well. It just sounds like a total mess to be honest. You let this happen because no protection was taken to cover yourself... you could have tacked the cost on to the item.
I think that the guy may be trying to rip you, but I can't make any determination as again, no tracking. In the future... protect yourself and tack the cost of tracking/ delivery conformation on to the price so that this doesn't happen again. I'd say fight the guy though. He did not pay for insurance.... and it does sound like that once the item ships, oh well, its lost,... no card for you.
Though do you have like a reciept or something from where you shipped? That would help us verify that the item was shipped, and would definetly help your case, because again, from the way I read it, once the item is shipped, it is the buyer's responsbility then.
I think it is tough if you do not have tracking... and as the above poster has stated a receipt might help.
You might want to ask him to wait? How long has it been? Maybe it is on the way. He has up to 60 days before he cannot file a claim. I will usually bug the seller after a month if it has not arrived and wait till the week before i cannot file claims to take action.
Also the thing is although paypal/ebay lets you claim up to 1000 or 2000 (I can't rem), they limit it by the number of claims per year as well if I am not wrong. So there is'nt really an incentive to scam smaller amounts.
Also, even if he initiates a dispute, you will have a chance to respond to him on the paypal site, so it will be transparent, so if there is any discrepencies you can raise it then.
Well, the thing with tracking is that it costs me like $4 to track an item. At that rate, I would have to lose one in every three items in order for it to be worthwhile...which is why I don't use tracking.
My gut says the only way to avoid a negative here is just to refund. The reason I think he is scamming is because of the six bid retractions in six months. I think this guy just got really excited bidding on stuff and now is upset because Ivus has dropped to like $5 in price, a third of what he paid for it. Maybe he didn't get it, but my gut says otherwise.
The item shipped on April 6, so it should be there by now.
Unfortunately, you may have to take the loss of $14 so that you can make much more than that with the Timetwister. It's hard, I know.
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Well, the thing with tracking is that it costs me like $4 to track an item. At that rate, I would have to lose one in every three items in order for it to be worthwhile...which is why I don't use tracking.
My gut says the only way to avoid a negative here is just to refund. The reason I think he is scamming is because of the six bid retractions in six months. I think this guy just got really excited bidding on stuff and now is upset because Ivus has dropped to like $5 in price, a third of what he paid for it. Maybe he didn't get it, but my gut says otherwise.
The item shipped on April 6, so it should be there by now.
Nope, delivery confirmation costs 65 cents for a bubble envelope containing 1-12 cards going first class. If you charge at least $1.10 shipping, you can afford to send First Class + delivery confirmation on every singles auction. Which I advise you to do.
As soon as you get an email notice from PayPal about the claim, make sure you point out the terms of sale written in your auction, and that you have good feedback from before. His position is not as strong as yours, lots of withdrawn bids and dinking around. Paypal usually finds in favor of the person with the better feedback. However, you should not assume anything. You can still get burned. If you get burned a lot, you rack up bad feedback even if it's not your fault.
EDIT: Oh, and never offer a partial refund. If the guy's a crook, he can always file a claim for the full amount. If the guy's honest, he will think you somehow don't have the money to cover the full value of your losses. This is fishy. So either point him politely towards your policies of auction, or pay up in full as soon as it's clear you must.
Nope, delivery confirmation costs 65 cents for a bubble envelope containing 1-12 cards going first class. If you charge at least $1.10 shipping, you can afford to send First Class + delivery confirmation on every singles auction. Which I advise you to do.
I was always under the impression that you had to get priority mail in order to get tracking/delivery confirmation. How is this service available for normal envelopes? It seems I've been given the runaround on this at the post office.
why dont you offer to replace the card. buy a new one for lower price now and send it to him with tracking this time. that way you are really giving him a refund in part but it does not seem like it to him (you said the card is worth half of what it sold for). that way every one wins, you win because you wont have the bad feedback and he wins because he gets the card.
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why dont you offer to replace the card. buy a new one for lower price now and send it to him with tracking this time. that way you are really giving him a refund in part but it does not seem like it to him (you said the card is worth half of what it sold for). that way every one wins, you win because you wont have the bad feedback and he wins because he gets the card.
I asked him if he will take a replacement in a week to a week and a half. He hasn't replied yet. I don't know that he will, as he just bought 4 Ivuses for $13 (heh) recently.
I don't see where he can refuse it. He bought the card, he claims it has never arrived. You are going to send a replacement. Thats it. No refund. Sale is final. Take a hard stance on this. This is what he gets for buying cards so soon after the set is released, an overpriced piece of jank.
Send him the card with all the frills of shippinng, and if the card is as cheap as you say it is now (I don't follow the WoW:TCG at all), you will still have made some money off of this, though the time you will have wasted will have been... well... wasted.
Not sure about you guys, but where I live (Portland, OR), in order to send with delivery confirmation, they require parcel (3/4 of an inch thick) or via priority mail. Toploaders inside a bubble mailer never reach the 3/4" requirement and priority mail costs 4.05. This holds true at 4 different post offices.
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Not sure about you guys, but where I live (Portland, OR), in order to send with delivery confirmation, they require parcel (3/4 of an inch thick) or via priority mail. Toploaders inside a bubble mailer never reach the 3/4" requirement and priority mail costs 4.05. This holds true at 4 different post offices.
So what's the answer? How does one get cheap tracking/confirmation?
You stuff the envelope full of cardboard scraps until it's thick enough for the cheaper rate. At least, that's what I do.
So I need an envelope that is at least 3/4" thick...and how much does it cost? I guess bubble is the only way to go here then. I was trying to save by using envelopes. Additionally, it's pretty lame you can't just get tracking for the skinny envelopes without the huge fee.
I don't see where he can refuse it. He bought the card, he claims it has never arrived. You are going to send a replacement. Thats it. No refund. Sale is final. Take a hard stance on this. This is what he gets for buying cards so soon after the set is released, an overpriced piece of jank.
Send him the card with all the frills of shippinng, and if the card is as cheap as you say it is now (I don't follow the WoW:TCG at all), you will still have made some money off of this, though the time you will have wasted will have been... well... wasted.
I agree, he cant say no. Dont except any other "deals". If he refuses it then HE is in violation of ebay policy.
I asked him if he will take a replacement in a week to a week and a half. He hasn't replied yet. I don't know that he will, as he just bought 4 Ivuses for $13 (heh) recently.
i dont know anything about WOW but perhaps this is why hes saying he did not get the card. Can you only put 4 of each card in a deck like magic?
Paypal usually sides with the buyer, especially when the seller doesnt have any proof that he sent the card. Best way to avoid it is to always ship with delivary confirmation so when the buyer does'nt receive you have proof to back up that you have actually sent the card.
As of now, just live with the $14 loss I guess, I do think you can send a replacement card and do without the claim. I don't send via registered mail, but I have no problems so far. Soon enough I'll change to a policy where I only ship via registered mail.
Paypal usually sides with the buyer, especially when the seller doesnt have any proof that he sent the card. Best way to avoid it is to always ship with delivary confirmation so when the buyer does'nt receive you have proof to back up that you have actually sent the card.
Paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer if the seller didn't use delivery confirmation with online tracking. When you open a non-receipt dispute with Paypal, the first think they do is ask the seller what the tracking number is - if there isn't one, the seller is out of luck. I think it's part of the user agreement that all shipments sent must be able to be tracked online.
Paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer if the seller didn't use delivery confirmation with online tracking. When you open a non-receipt dispute with Paypal, the first think they do is ask the seller what the tracking number is - if there isn't one, the seller is out of luck. I think it's part of the user agreement that all shipments sent must be able to be tracked online.
yea but if he is going to replace the card its a different story.
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I had a guy rip me off for about 14 dollars times two (two Stomping Grounds in separate auctions).
First, Ebay has a Minimum cover of about 30 (If I remember correctly) dollars in one transaction, and Paypal wont cover anything under 25 dollars. (again, if I remember correctly, both numbers could be about 5 bucks off, but I dont think so).
So he cant fight you on either, neither will touch such a low amount. You will both fall into the Limbo that is small auctions on Ebay.
On a happier note, I say screw him, Timetwisters arent bought by idiots, they will look at your counter feedback and probably even ask you about the incident. Especially being that its 1 bad out of 75.
If it means alot to you, then eat the money, send it to him and never sell to iffy people again.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
A neg is a huge turnoff for buyers, especially when the seller has not yet established himself. (500+, etc). If you're planning on selling big ticket items on there, you should probably just eat the cost and resend the cards. I've hit the 200+ feedback count and I'm doing alright now, I have one negative and thus my record is 99.6% positive. (and if the curious check up on the negative they find it's just a minor tussle over grading of the product, not a major issue.)
So this early in the game, I say just eat the cost and resend. Later on when you can afford a negative or two it's not a big issue, but this early, a flawless record is critical.
I am a guru on EBay, and have educated many in the art of scams. Allow me to provide you with an answer, as this is basically my turf:
I immediately sold him on eBay for the sum of $14.25, including shipping. I sent the item (without tracking).
Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER ship an item without tracking, or else you have no proof that the buyer has ever received your item.
Now he claims he can file a paypal claim and get all of the money.
He sure can, and will win the claim, too, 100% guaranteed.
1) This guy has six bid retraction in the last six months.
It means nothing; I also have 6 retractions, but I also am an honest trader with 250 feedback. (small tidbit, never leave feedback as a seller, as it invites Paypal disputes and chargebacks by giving up your tool for "publicly calling out" a scammer)
2) He said his "computer was down" lately and took a long time to respond to my offer, yet has posted feedback for other users on the 28th and on the 1st, after I sent him the offer on the 24th and again on the 28th.
That is indeed suspicious, and looks like a scammer.
3) The auction clearly stated that priority mail, delivery confirmation, insurance, and other services were available at the buyer's expense. He paid for none of these.
Why should the buyer pay for devices meant to protect the seller? You cannot afford the extra 14 cents for delivery confirmation? Take it as a lesson learned; ALWAYS ship with delivery confirmation, as it is there to protect YOU, not the buyer.
4) I only have 74 feedback on eBay and I intend to sell a Timetwister there in short order. A negative for me would be very bad here, as I have none.
He won't leave a megative, as he will be getting a full refund.
So, what should I do and what are my options? Can he realistically get all of the money from a paypal claim? Should I just accept the loss of $14 and move on? Or should I fight this guy?
Accept the loss, as you have no recourse.
I apologize for being blunt, but far too many sellers are naive in what is largely a buyer's market. At least you only have to pay $14.25 to learn this hard lesson. Always ship with delivery confirmation, boys and girls, and if the item is expensive, upgrade to signature confirmation.
DC and insurance exist to protect the SELLER, so a buyer has absolutely no motive for purchasing them. Items never get lost in the mail, but scams DO happen. One shipping peanut is all you need to add to your letter in order to qualify for DC.
And trust my expertise; I am not being arrogant, as I have fought many buyers and sellers alike on fraudulent transactions for years, for I am a semi-professional MTG card dealer. I have never lost a single case over Paypal, and just recently, I won two cases as a buyer against experienced scammers for $1,535 and $1,630, respectively...and I got some free cards out of the deal, too (they refused to accept my return).
As everyone else has mentioned, just eat the loss here and take solice that eventually karma will come back to his scamming butt. When I sell on eBay I charge $2.50 to ship anything and that easily covers all the following, $0.01 penny sleeve $0.07 top loader, $0.33 bubble mailer, $0.63 shipping, $0.60 Delivery Confirmation. The remainder usually covers listing fees and I eat the sale fee and the paypal fee. I just stuff a bit of newspaper in the mailer to make it thick enough for DC. Only one have I had someone try to say they never got the package and when confronted with the DC they promptly said it arrived that day and left me positive feedback.
Well, for the curious, this guy opened a buyer complaint against me today and raised it to a paypal claim immediately. He did not respond to my offer for a replacement. In light of the advice I have received, I just opted for the full refund, which cost me $13.50 total, as I got 70 cents back from the paypal fee. I guess this is a lesson learned; thanks for the info on how to track cheaply. Hopefully Timetwister will make up for it. Thanks for your help, guys. I'm glad this is over, I suppose. I mean, he's not gonna post feedback on this item after all this is he?
(small tidbit, never leave feedback as a seller, as it invites Paypal disputes and chargebacks by giving up your tool for "publicly calling out" a scammer)
Some other things worth noting:
1) This guy has six bid retraction in the last six months.
2) He said his "computer was down" lately and took a long time to respond to my offer, yet has posted feedback for other users on the 28th and on the 1st, after I sent him the offer on the 24th and again on the 28th.
3) The auction clearly stated that priority mail, delivery confirmation, insurance, and other services were available at the buyer's expense. He paid for none of these.
4) I only have 74 feedback on eBay and I intend to sell a Timetwister there in short order. A negative for me would be very bad here, as I have none.
So, what should I do and what are my options? Can he realistically get all of the money from a paypal claim? Should I just accept the loss of $14 and move on? Or should I fight this guy?
Those with eBay selling experience preferred, but others are welcome to comment also. Thanks.
Edit: The auction in question is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150108370776&rd=1&rd=1
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I think that the guy may be trying to rip you, but I can't make any determination as again, no tracking. In the future... protect yourself and tack the cost of tracking/ delivery conformation on to the price so that this doesn't happen again. I'd say fight the guy though. He did not pay for insurance.... and it does sound like that once the item ships, oh well, its lost,... no card for you.
Though do you have like a reciept or something from where you shipped? That would help us verify that the item was shipped, and would definetly help your case, because again, from the way I read it, once the item is shipped, it is the buyer's responsbility then.
You might want to ask him to wait? How long has it been? Maybe it is on the way. He has up to 60 days before he cannot file a claim. I will usually bug the seller after a month if it has not arrived and wait till the week before i cannot file claims to take action.
Also the thing is although paypal/ebay lets you claim up to 1000 or 2000 (I can't rem), they limit it by the number of claims per year as well if I am not wrong. So there is'nt really an incentive to scam smaller amounts.
Also, even if he initiates a dispute, you will have a chance to respond to him on the paypal site, so it will be transparent, so if there is any discrepencies you can raise it then.
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My gut says the only way to avoid a negative here is just to refund. The reason I think he is scamming is because of the six bid retractions in six months. I think this guy just got really excited bidding on stuff and now is upset because Ivus has dropped to like $5 in price, a third of what he paid for it. Maybe he didn't get it, but my gut says otherwise.
The item shipped on April 6, so it should be there by now.
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Nope, delivery confirmation costs 65 cents for a bubble envelope containing 1-12 cards going first class. If you charge at least $1.10 shipping, you can afford to send First Class + delivery confirmation on every singles auction. Which I advise you to do.
As soon as you get an email notice from PayPal about the claim, make sure you point out the terms of sale written in your auction, and that you have good feedback from before. His position is not as strong as yours, lots of withdrawn bids and dinking around. Paypal usually finds in favor of the person with the better feedback. However, you should not assume anything. You can still get burned. If you get burned a lot, you rack up bad feedback even if it's not your fault.
EDIT: Oh, and never offer a partial refund. If the guy's a crook, he can always file a claim for the full amount. If the guy's honest, he will think you somehow don't have the money to cover the full value of your losses. This is fishy. So either point him politely towards your policies of auction, or pay up in full as soon as it's clear you must.
I was always under the impression that you had to get priority mail in order to get tracking/delivery confirmation. How is this service available for normal envelopes? It seems I've been given the runaround on this at the post office.
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I asked him if he will take a replacement in a week to a week and a half. He hasn't replied yet. I don't know that he will, as he just bought 4 Ivuses for $13 (heh) recently.
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Send him the card with all the frills of shippinng, and if the card is as cheap as you say it is now (I don't follow the WoW:TCG at all), you will still have made some money off of this, though the time you will have wasted will have been... well... wasted.
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So what's the answer? How does one get cheap tracking/confirmation?
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So I need an envelope that is at least 3/4" thick...and how much does it cost? I guess bubble is the only way to go here then. I was trying to save by using envelopes. Additionally, it's pretty lame you can't just get tracking for the skinny envelopes without the huge fee.
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I agree, he cant say no. Dont except any other "deals". If he refuses it then HE is in violation of ebay policy.
EDIT:
i dont know anything about WOW but perhaps this is why hes saying he did not get the card. Can you only put 4 of each card in a deck like magic?
As of now, just live with the $14 loss I guess, I do think you can send a replacement card and do without the claim. I don't send via registered mail, but I have no problems so far. Soon enough I'll change to a policy where I only ship via registered mail.
Paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer if the seller didn't use delivery confirmation with online tracking. When you open a non-receipt dispute with Paypal, the first think they do is ask the seller what the tracking number is - if there isn't one, the seller is out of luck. I think it's part of the user agreement that all shipments sent must be able to be tracked online.
yea but if he is going to replace the card its a different story.
First, Ebay has a Minimum cover of about 30 (If I remember correctly) dollars in one transaction, and Paypal wont cover anything under 25 dollars. (again, if I remember correctly, both numbers could be about 5 bucks off, but I dont think so).
So he cant fight you on either, neither will touch such a low amount. You will both fall into the Limbo that is small auctions on Ebay.
On a happier note, I say screw him, Timetwisters arent bought by idiots, they will look at your counter feedback and probably even ask you about the incident. Especially being that its 1 bad out of 75.
If it means alot to you, then eat the money, send it to him and never sell to iffy people again.
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If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
So this early in the game, I say just eat the cost and resend. Later on when you can afford a negative or two it's not a big issue, but this early, a flawless record is critical.
I immediately sold him on eBay for the sum of $14.25, including shipping. I sent the item (without tracking).
Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER ship an item without tracking, or else you have no proof that the buyer has ever received your item.
Now he claims he can file a paypal claim and get all of the money.
He sure can, and will win the claim, too, 100% guaranteed.
1) This guy has six bid retraction in the last six months.
It means nothing; I also have 6 retractions, but I also am an honest trader with 250 feedback. (small tidbit, never leave feedback as a seller, as it invites Paypal disputes and chargebacks by giving up your tool for "publicly calling out" a scammer)
2) He said his "computer was down" lately and took a long time to respond to my offer, yet has posted feedback for other users on the 28th and on the 1st, after I sent him the offer on the 24th and again on the 28th.
That is indeed suspicious, and looks like a scammer.
3) The auction clearly stated that priority mail, delivery confirmation, insurance, and other services were available at the buyer's expense. He paid for none of these.
Why should the buyer pay for devices meant to protect the seller? You cannot afford the extra 14 cents for delivery confirmation? Take it as a lesson learned; ALWAYS ship with delivery confirmation, as it is there to protect YOU, not the buyer.
4) I only have 74 feedback on eBay and I intend to sell a Timetwister there in short order. A negative for me would be very bad here, as I have none.
He won't leave a megative, as he will be getting a full refund.
So, what should I do and what are my options? Can he realistically get all of the money from a paypal claim? Should I just accept the loss of $14 and move on? Or should I fight this guy?
Accept the loss, as you have no recourse.
I apologize for being blunt, but far too many sellers are naive in what is largely a buyer's market. At least you only have to pay $14.25 to learn this hard lesson. Always ship with delivery confirmation, boys and girls, and if the item is expensive, upgrade to signature confirmation.
DC and insurance exist to protect the SELLER, so a buyer has absolutely no motive for purchasing them. Items never get lost in the mail, but scams DO happen. One shipping peanut is all you need to add to your letter in order to qualify for DC.
And trust my expertise; I am not being arrogant, as I have fought many buyers and sellers alike on fraudulent transactions for years, for I am a semi-professional MTG card dealer. I have never lost a single case over Paypal, and just recently, I won two cases as a buyer against experienced scammers for $1,535 and $1,630, respectively...and I got some free cards out of the deal, too (they refused to accept my return).
I am j/k, as this is the perfect logic to use, since it is an easy way to facilitate DC.
What do you mean by this exactly?
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