has anyone tested with gaze of granite at all against bant hexproof? Seem like it could be used for 5 mana to kill just about everything in their deck except for GoST and unflinching courage. x=6 literally wipes anything they play.
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has anyone tested with gaze of granite at all against bant hexproof? Seem like it could be used for 5 mana to kill just about everything in their deck except for GoST and unflinching courage. x=6 literally wipes anything they play.
last page there are talks about it. Yes, it is a good solution vs them. (Turn 4 Farseek with land in hand for 6 mana to wipe)
Yes, it does.
Opinions on what to call are very varied.
Personally, I generally call Unburial Rites, but there are players who would say your best bet is Angel of Serenity. Of course, in certain situations one will be clearly better than the other, and in others something like Craterhoof Behemoth, Thragtusk, Ghost Council, etc could be best.
As far as I can tell, the argument for calling Angel is that it is the card that provides huge advantage, and is extremely hard to deal with using our removal. Further, it is often the card that actually kills you.
The argument for Unburial Rites is that it is the card that makes the deck what it is. One Angel of Serenity is tough, but it gets really bad when they play it then bring it back twice. Further, it leaves the opponent with several cards that are now extremely lackluster - Mulch and Grisly Salvage.
Thanks for the response. I'm planning to play Jund at States this Saturday. I've never really played with it in the past so I am trying to be as prepared as I can be.
At the moment my sideboard plan vs Junk is:
-2 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Farseek
-1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Liliana of the Veil
-1 Rakdos Keyrune
-1 Rakdos's Return
-2 Sire of Insanity
+2 Pillar of Flames
+2 Tragic Slip
+1 Ground Seal
+2 Vampire Nighthawk
+2 Slaughter Games
I'm pretty sure about what to put in, just not what comes out. I'm using Tyler's 2nd Place list from Charlotte.
Nighthawk because it can trade and attack. Trading may not be what I want to be doing in the matchup?
I like Pillar because it can permanently deal with Acidic Slime and Voice if they board it in and can also be used with another removal spell to exile other creatures if needed. Tragic Slip might be unnecessary.
If I don't bring in 2 Nighthawks and 2 Tragic Slip which 4 cards should I be keeping in? 2 Farseek 1 Keyrune and something else?
As I said I'm new to the deck. I just think it's a good choice for the weekend, but it's not my normal style.
I'm playing the 2nd place list from Charlotte, since I don't have any experience I'm just going to run the stock list. I sketched out a sideboard plan for each of the more popular decks, but I won't take up space by posting it here.
The best way to approach this MU is to resolve a GS, then play your midrange game with Sire/Return/Lili/Olivia and just rip their hand apart. Obviously, 3 of those require you to have GS in play for it to be effective.
I don't really like SG in this MU as they have way too many angles to attack you from. If you get their AoS, they'll just Slime/Angel/Obzedat/Garruk you.
I don't really like SG in this MU as they have way too many angles to attack you from. If you get their AoS, they'll just Slime/Angel/Obzedat/Garruk you.
The thing about all those other threats...they don't really matter, slime is the only one I would even care about, Obzedat hasn't mattered since putrefy was announced, and Garruk doesn't usually live beyond a turn due to all the burn jund packs. Honestly I would put in SG just calling AoS/Thragtusk, then the matchup comes down to you 2 for 1ing them with pretty much every threat in the deck while 1 for 1ing anything that matters with the superb removal suite.
It really depends on whats on the field, but I think Thragtusk or AoS are solid cards to name. Calling AoS with your Slaughter Games means that they can't go over the top of you. All you have to do is worry about the 3-4 Thragtusks you'll see hit the field between Resto Angel and Unburial Rites. But you have the cards to beat a bunch of Thragtusks and you've taken out their major card advantage engine. If you call Thragtusk on the other hand, that probably means you have a "faster" hand (turn 3 Olivia perhaps) and them resolving a Thragtusk would buy them an extra turn to perhaps hardcast that Angel.
The thing about all those other threats...they don't really matter, slime is the only one I would even care about, Obzedat hasn't mattered since putrefy was announced, and Garruk doesn't usually live beyond a turn due to all the burn jund packs. Honestly I would put in SG just calling AoS/Thragtusk, then the matchup comes down to you 2 for 1ing them with pretty much every threat in the deck while 1 for 1ing anything that matters with the superb removal suite.
-Thragtusks is 'terrible' against Jund in Rites. Most lists are down to 3, and are even considering going to 2 MD. Your main goal as Junk is to accelerate into Slime/Resto against most non-aggro strategies.
-Garruk Relentless comes down a turn quicker than Primal. There are no easy ways to deal with it other than Return or spending 5 mana playing your own. Bonfire/Return are NOT burns spells.
-Jund runs 2 putrefy. You have to first have the card when they play Obzedat. Not have it stripped by a Collector, or have blown it on a Slime that's being blinked. Obzedat is still good in this MU.
-Jund runs 2 putrefy. You have to first have the card when they play Obzedat. Not have it stripped by a Collector, or have blown it on a Slime that's being blinked. Obzedat is still good in this MU.
Well, Tragic Slip sees play as well. Thragtusks can block IF it attacks. Olivia can steal it. If Obzedat has been reduced to just draining you for 2, then that's a managable board state while we fish for one of our 4 outs. The other thing about the Jund v Junk matchup is that they don't put pressure on you in the early game, so you can hold back your removal if you feel like you won't gain an advantage by Tragic Slipping a dork and wait for them to play real spells to use your removal on. And since you play Mortars, Bonfire, Abrupt Decay and Dreadbore as well, any of them can be used on their other stuff to allow for you to save those removal spells for Obzedat.
-Thragtusks is 'terrible' against Jund in Rites. Most lists are down to 3, and are even considering going to 2 MD. Your main goal as Junk is to accelerate into Slime/Resto against most non-aggro strategies.
-Garruk Relentless comes down a turn quicker than Primal. There are no easy ways to deal with it other than Return or spending 5 mana playing your own. Bonfire/Return are NOT burns spells.
-Jund runs 2 putrefy. You have to first have the card when they play Obzedat. Not have it stripped by a Collector, or have blown it on a Slime that's being blinked. Obzedat is still good in this MU.
Alright, lets answer these in order:
Thragtusk isn't "terrible against any deck, in fact against a deck like jund that relies on efficient removal to keep the board under control while putting pressure, this card hinders both. Not sure what your junk decks play in your area, but it sounds like they need to get their acts straight.
Next, I'm not sure what you mean by "Bonfire/Return are NOT burns spells.", since they accomplish their roles of field Clearance/Discard + Burn, but I can assure you that if I'm on the play and I have 5 mana the turn after garruk relentless hits play, that RR now reads target opponent discards three cards and loses a planeswalker. Not sure how that play doesn't deal with it easily, same case with bonfire since their decks run mana dorks/wolfs which are also fried. (Albeit at a higher mana cost of 7 if hardcasting to kill garruk)
Lastly, I will concede that you do need to have removal at the right time for it to work, however that is true of most answers. The chance of your opponent hitting the putrefy/ you using it are things that can happen. Does that make obzedat unanswerable? The answer is no, thragtusk and kessig are two ways to deal with it without even needing a kill spell, Olivia is also a thing.
EDIT: Nath'd by DarkRit and his broken ability to generate black mana faster than me on the last point.
First, please go read BBD's or CVM's article on the Junk archetype. Thragtusk IS NOT their primary plan against most midrange decks. I'm not saying board out all your Tusks, but there are other higher impact cards.
RR against a deck that abuses GY? Opponent discards Unburial Rites, Acidic Slime. You lose.
You can't expect to go 1 for 1 against Rites with your removal and expect to come out ahead. Save all your removal you want, Sin Collector is a real card.
Why are people siding out Rakdos's Return and Sire out vs. Junk? If ever you have a ground seal on board and you resolve either of those spells, you win the game.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Boom, I'll start the trend. They will call it the AJ variation sideboard.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
last page there are talks about it. Yes, it is a good solution vs them. (Turn 4 Farseek with land in hand for 6 mana to wipe)
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Opinions on what to call are very varied.
Personally, I generally call Unburial Rites, but there are players who would say your best bet is Angel of Serenity. Of course, in certain situations one will be clearly better than the other, and in others something like Craterhoof Behemoth, Thragtusk, Ghost Council, etc could be best.
As far as I can tell, the argument for calling Angel is that it is the card that provides huge advantage, and is extremely hard to deal with using our removal. Further, it is often the card that actually kills you.
The argument for Unburial Rites is that it is the card that makes the deck what it is. One Angel of Serenity is tough, but it gets really bad when they play it then bring it back twice. Further, it leaves the opponent with several cards that are now extremely lackluster - Mulch and Grisly Salvage.
At the moment my sideboard plan vs Junk is:
-2 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Farseek
-1 Abrupt Decay
-1 Liliana of the Veil
-1 Rakdos Keyrune
-1 Rakdos's Return
-2 Sire of Insanity
+2 Pillar of Flames
+2 Tragic Slip
+1 Ground Seal
+2 Vampire Nighthawk
+2 Slaughter Games
I'm pretty sure about what to put in, just not what comes out. I'm using Tyler's 2nd Place list from Charlotte.
I like Pillar because it can permanently deal with Acidic Slime and Voice if they board it in and can also be used with another removal spell to exile other creatures if needed. Tragic Slip might be unnecessary.
If I don't bring in 2 Nighthawks and 2 Tragic Slip which 4 cards should I be keeping in? 2 Farseek 1 Keyrune and something else?
As I said I'm new to the deck. I just think it's a good choice for the weekend, but it's not my normal style.
I'm playing the 2nd place list from Charlotte, since I don't have any experience I'm just going to run the stock list. I sketched out a sideboard plan for each of the more popular decks, but I won't take up space by posting it here.
-1 Lili
-2 Mortars
-1 Returns
-1 Decay
+2 Slip
+2 SG
+1 GS
Your just not very likely to exile an AoS with pillar. Once you slip her and have ground seal in place she won't be coming back anyways.
I don't really like SG in this MU as they have way too many angles to attack you from. If you get their AoS, they'll just Slime/Angel/Obzedat/Garruk you.
The thing about all those other threats...they don't really matter, slime is the only one I would even care about, Obzedat hasn't mattered since putrefy was announced, and Garruk doesn't usually live beyond a turn due to all the burn jund packs. Honestly I would put in SG just calling AoS/Thragtusk, then the matchup comes down to you 2 for 1ing them with pretty much every threat in the deck while 1 for 1ing anything that matters with the superb removal suite.
Epic Sig by: Myself
Mindsplicer of [House Dimir]
-Thragtusks is 'terrible' against Jund in Rites. Most lists are down to 3, and are even considering going to 2 MD. Your main goal as Junk is to accelerate into Slime/Resto against most non-aggro strategies.
-Garruk Relentless comes down a turn quicker than Primal. There are no easy ways to deal with it other than Return or spending 5 mana playing your own. Bonfire/Return are NOT burns spells.
-Jund runs 2 putrefy. You have to first have the card when they play Obzedat. Not have it stripped by a Collector, or have blown it on a Slime that's being blinked. Obzedat is still good in this MU.
Well, Tragic Slip sees play as well. Thragtusks can block IF it attacks. Olivia can steal it. If Obzedat has been reduced to just draining you for 2, then that's a managable board state while we fish for one of our 4 outs. The other thing about the Jund v Junk matchup is that they don't put pressure on you in the early game, so you can hold back your removal if you feel like you won't gain an advantage by Tragic Slipping a dork and wait for them to play real spells to use your removal on. And since you play Mortars, Bonfire, Abrupt Decay and Dreadbore as well, any of them can be used on their other stuff to allow for you to save those removal spells for Obzedat.
Alright, lets answer these in order:
Thragtusk isn't "terrible against any deck, in fact against a deck like jund that relies on efficient removal to keep the board under control while putting pressure, this card hinders both. Not sure what your junk decks play in your area, but it sounds like they need to get their acts straight.
Next, I'm not sure what you mean by "Bonfire/Return are NOT burns spells.", since they accomplish their roles of field Clearance/Discard + Burn, but I can assure you that if I'm on the play and I have 5 mana the turn after garruk relentless hits play, that RR now reads target opponent discards three cards and loses a planeswalker. Not sure how that play doesn't deal with it easily, same case with bonfire since their decks run mana dorks/wolfs which are also fried. (Albeit at a higher mana cost of 7 if hardcasting to kill garruk)
Lastly, I will concede that you do need to have removal at the right time for it to work, however that is true of most answers. The chance of your opponent hitting the putrefy/ you using it are things that can happen. Does that make obzedat unanswerable? The answer is no, thragtusk and kessig are two ways to deal with it without even needing a kill spell, Olivia is also a thing.
EDIT: Nath'd by DarkRit and his broken ability to generate black mana faster than me on the last point.
Epic Sig by: Myself
Mindsplicer of [House Dimir]
RR against a deck that abuses GY? Opponent discards Unburial Rites, Acidic Slime. You lose.
You can't expect to go 1 for 1 against Rites with your removal and expect to come out ahead. Save all your removal you want, Sin Collector is a real card.