This is why I love Frontline MedicCounter that X
(also counters sphinx rev <3 )
It's a game changing top deck. If the deck has too many, hands can become very clunky. Bonfire can be as strong as a top deck Sphinx's Revelation or Olivia Voldaren (nothing worse than never being able to play a creature without it being taken before your EOT).
edit, this is why decks run 1-ofs. Awkward if you have multiples, but perfect when needed.
This card was a $50 Mythic around this time last year (yeah, I actually traded for 2 fully knowing it was the wrong time to be doing it). It was basically Naya Pod, Delver, and Infect. Pod jammed it in as a 4-of to have an edge on the other pod decks, just like Jund does now, although I would argue it's even better this season than last with the amount of midrange and aggro that exists.
It almost feels like cheating when you rip this thing off the top. Almost. The way I get over hating certain cards in the format? I play them. Then I love them.
Bonfire is plenty easy to deal with if you have the right cards. Like ajprokos said, there's always Frontline Medic, not to mention many useful counterspells like Syncopate and Negate to stop it. All you need is to keep 1U open and that Bonfire's done for. Plus there's Nevermore and Slaughter Games if you don't want to keep mana open for the right moment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH/Commander
UBR Sedris RG Omnath, Locus of Rage UB The Scarab God RUG Maelstrom Wanderer WU Dragonlord Ojutai
Seriously can we talk about Bonfire and how unbelievably frustrating it is to play against.
No need for inappropriate titles.
I don't understand what the point of this is?
I hate snapcaster but I don't start threads to complain about it.
Do you need advice or help with strategy to play around it or deal with it?
Frontline medic does help with it quite a bit, but it's the same concept as top decking sphinx rev or terminus...
It's a life saver. That's what it does.
I have played agains alot of decks that run bonfire, and never really seen it as a problem. I feel like mizzium mortars is a better card IMO. However i have had problems with sphinx's revelation and terminuses. Feel like those are much better cards.
I have played agains alot of decks that run bonfire, and never really seen it as a problem. I feel like mizzium mortars is a better card IMO. However i have had problems with sphinx's revelation and terminuses. Feel like those are much better cards.
The issue I feel with mortars is to overload it you need that investment in red mana, versus an X cost.
I think mortars is better as well because you don't need to miracle it to gain that kind of value in a board wipe, but at the same time a well timed bonfire can be devastating.
I run it as a 2of in a Werewolves variant. It's a great card, but I do feel slightly guilty ripping it off the top in an endgame situation and stealing the game. The rest of the time though, I love it. Even if you end up having to pay the XX cost, it can still swing a board state in your direction without being cheesy.
There is a ton of answers for it... in every colour.
but it is super annoying, but so are a lot of cards... well I was about to kill him then he played supreme verdict and I had no other cards in hand. he played olivia/giest and I didn't have an answer to it.
Blue no longer has Ponder, thus making Bonfire not as good. Some Grixis builds currently run Magmaquake because of the instant speed. Jund runs it because it doesn't care if it gets stuck in hand (not really an issue though because of Farseek which makes a hard cast feasible), it just wants to top deck it often and blow the way open for its creatures.
I do not like Bonfire of the Damned... because I think it is highly overrated. While the Miracle is strong, it's pretty bad as a hardcast. (Unlike say Terminus which is only slightly overpriced as a hardcast.) I too think Mizzium Mortars is also a better card, since the Overload is roughly equivalent to Bonfire's Miracle but it's also perfectly good targeted removal for :1mana::symr:.
Before Scars rotation, I tried out Bonfire originally and largely went back to playing Slagstorm. Because sweeping for 1 on Turn 3 isn't cool.
I do not like Bonfire of the Damned
I do not like it Sam I Am
I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not with a goat.
You do not like it.
SO you say.
Try it! Try it!
And you may.
Try it and you may I say.
Sam!
If you will let me be,
I will try it.
You will see.
Say!
I like Bonfire of the Damned!
So I will play it in a box.
And I will play it with a fox.
And I will play it in a house.
And I will play it with a mouse.
And I will play it here and there.
Say! I will play it ANYWHERE!
In other words, try it. It's a great card. Don't get bent out of shape on it.
I do not like Bonfire of the Damned... because I think it is highly overrated. While the Miracle is strong, it's pretty bad as a hardcast. (Unlike say Terminus which is only slightly overpriced as a hardcast.) I too think Mizzium Mortars is also a better card, since the Overload is roughly equivalent to Bonfire's Miracle but it's also perfectly good targeted removal for :1mana::symr:.
Before Scars rotation, I tried out Bonfire originally and largely went back to playing Slagstorm. Because sweeping for 1 on Turn 3 isn't cool.
Depends on your need. I think a onesided pyroclasm in red is worth 5 mana. Or the Overload on Electrickery while a 2 mana effect, I'd take for 3 given the flexibility (stuff like Loss is 3). I would play it even without the miracle benefit in several decks. It might be more sideboard or limited to 2 main deck. There is a reason I bought mine right at the beginning at $5 a piece. I had no idea how good the miracle mechanic was going to be, but the card was clearly strong enough in decks with mana dorks that wanted to kill opponents mana dorks or 1-2 drop threats while leaving mine intact. Or for me at the time.. clearing the way or forcing a bunch of Awkward trades with Hero of Bladehold.
That being said it depends on the format a bit. There was quite a time period where it wasn't good enough to just cast as normal. Smiter/Reckoner make it look pretty bad etc. Under those circumstances it doesn't see very much play. In fact it didn't see much play for several months this Standard Season. Once the non-miracle was worth doing it came back again.
Mizzium Mortars definitely is an example of something that is more efficiently costed at expensive cost. The fact it costs 2 to just Flame Slash is a huge benefit. However, you don't get the sweeper effect til 6. That's a given. This is where you can only really compare Bonfire on the Miracle. Mortars is a much stronger card hardcasted when you have a lot of mana, but the gap from 5-6 is a lot huger (and especially triple red) than it looks. If you want the sweeper effect you have to slot it as a 6 drop which is heavier on curve. Whereas Bonfire can be realistically slotted depending on the general somewhere between 3-5. Because that's where you will generally hardcast it, and the minimum you will spend on it in a mid to late game miracle. That's not including the Fireball effect which on the miracle pushes it so over the top Mortars while efficient removal pales in comparison. Bonfire basically has Overrun tagged on it.
All this means is it largely changes the way you can construct your deck. Mortars is fine if it's a Flame Slash you are looking for with some upside because you run a lot of removal (like Jund). But if you are specifically looking for a one sided sweeper effect Bonfire while occasionally awkward in hand is better suited for designing on curve. Why would you be looking for primarily a one sided sweeper.. If you want to play a deck with a low amount of removal. Or the opposite you play a deck with a ton of removal and need the upside of the miracle early turns to support your other removal as you build to your end game. In someways fairly similar to Terminus. However for me the key point is the first one where you actually don't even want a Flame Slash and rather just have a big effect or a way of keeping the opponent off get out on board faster. This is a very common trait in green decks with 1 mana accelerants against other green decks with similar or even white weenie (sans this format with Champion which is a bit brutal in that regard).
Anyway the point of this post is Bonfire is a fairly strong card that occasionally is overvalued in Standard formats, but generally is never terribly bad. Overrun for example is rarely terribly bad even if it isn't good. The reason for this is that Bonfire is fairly efficient when hard cast over a certain range that is easily reachable for a lot of decks to the point it isn't unreasonably overcosted. And then later in the game the miracle mechanic makes up for a lot of it's inefficiency. It's this universal flexibility and the specific need in decks that can't afford to kill their own creatures early that makes it both a powerful card and generally always a contender.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
No need for inappropriate titles.
/thread
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
(also counters sphinx rev <3 )
It's a game changing top deck. If the deck has too many, hands can become very clunky. Bonfire can be as strong as a top deck Sphinx's Revelation or Olivia Voldaren (nothing worse than never being able to play a creature without it being taken before your EOT).
edit, this is why decks run 1-ofs. Awkward if you have multiples, but perfect when needed.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
It almost feels like cheating when you rip this thing off the top. Almost. The way I get over hating certain cards in the format? I play them. Then I love them.
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
anyways, i would just run a control-based deck if it's painful.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
I don't understand what the point of this is?
I hate snapcaster but I don't start threads to complain about it.
Do you need advice or help with strategy to play around it or deal with it?
Frontline medic does help with it quite a bit, but it's the same concept as top decking sphinx rev or terminus...
It's a life saver. That's what it does.
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
The issue I feel with mortars is to overload it you need that investment in red mana, versus an X cost.
I think mortars is better as well because you don't need to miracle it to gain that kind of value in a board wipe, but at the same time a well timed bonfire can be devastating.
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
but it is super annoying, but so are a lot of cards... well I was about to kill him then he played supreme verdict and I had no other cards in hand. he played olivia/giest and I didn't have an answer to it.
I board wiped his two voice of resurgances he untapped and played lingering souls and killed me with two 6/6's
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Not a lot to complain about this card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fEJoXJj-vg
The priceless look on kiblers face...
I love that look on my opponents... it's much better than the table flip or rage quits.
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
Tournament deck, painstakingly assembled: $525.00
Custom game mat: $25.00
Sweet matching dice set: $12.50
Dropping a Bonfire on Kibler for the win: Priceless
There's some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's MasterCard.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
Before Scars rotation, I tried out Bonfire originally and largely went back to playing Slagstorm. Because sweeping for 1 on Turn 3 isn't cool.
where i've placed in the last 5 ptq's i've played in
oklahoma city dredge atog 11th place
, 9th place
witchita KS dredge atog 10 th place
those where all between 7-9 months ago so
like i said it's not new news for me.......
I do not like it Sam I Am
I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not with a goat.
You do not like it.
SO you say.
Try it! Try it!
And you may.
Try it and you may I say.
Sam!
If you will let me be,
I will try it.
You will see.
Say!
I like Bonfire of the Damned!
So I will play it in a box.
And I will play it with a fox.
And I will play it in a house.
And I will play it with a mouse.
And I will play it here and there.
Say! I will play it ANYWHERE!
In other words, try it. It's a great card. Don't get bent out of shape on it.
Brian Kibler 3 months ago
I am never going to see the end of that Bonfire being replayed
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Depends on your need. I think a onesided pyroclasm in red is worth 5 mana. Or the Overload on Electrickery while a 2 mana effect, I'd take for 3 given the flexibility (stuff like Loss is 3). I would play it even without the miracle benefit in several decks. It might be more sideboard or limited to 2 main deck. There is a reason I bought mine right at the beginning at $5 a piece. I had no idea how good the miracle mechanic was going to be, but the card was clearly strong enough in decks with mana dorks that wanted to kill opponents mana dorks or 1-2 drop threats while leaving mine intact. Or for me at the time.. clearing the way or forcing a bunch of Awkward trades with Hero of Bladehold.
That being said it depends on the format a bit. There was quite a time period where it wasn't good enough to just cast as normal. Smiter/Reckoner make it look pretty bad etc. Under those circumstances it doesn't see very much play. In fact it didn't see much play for several months this Standard Season. Once the non-miracle was worth doing it came back again.
Mizzium Mortars definitely is an example of something that is more efficiently costed at expensive cost. The fact it costs 2 to just Flame Slash is a huge benefit. However, you don't get the sweeper effect til 6. That's a given. This is where you can only really compare Bonfire on the Miracle. Mortars is a much stronger card hardcasted when you have a lot of mana, but the gap from 5-6 is a lot huger (and especially triple red) than it looks. If you want the sweeper effect you have to slot it as a 6 drop which is heavier on curve. Whereas Bonfire can be realistically slotted depending on the general somewhere between 3-5. Because that's where you will generally hardcast it, and the minimum you will spend on it in a mid to late game miracle. That's not including the Fireball effect which on the miracle pushes it so over the top Mortars while efficient removal pales in comparison. Bonfire basically has Overrun tagged on it.
All this means is it largely changes the way you can construct your deck. Mortars is fine if it's a Flame Slash you are looking for with some upside because you run a lot of removal (like Jund). But if you are specifically looking for a one sided sweeper effect Bonfire while occasionally awkward in hand is better suited for designing on curve. Why would you be looking for primarily a one sided sweeper.. If you want to play a deck with a low amount of removal. Or the opposite you play a deck with a ton of removal and need the upside of the miracle early turns to support your other removal as you build to your end game. In someways fairly similar to Terminus. However for me the key point is the first one where you actually don't even want a Flame Slash and rather just have a big effect or a way of keeping the opponent off get out on board faster. This is a very common trait in green decks with 1 mana accelerants against other green decks with similar or even white weenie (sans this format with Champion which is a bit brutal in that regard).
Anyway the point of this post is Bonfire is a fairly strong card that occasionally is overvalued in Standard formats, but generally is never terribly bad. Overrun for example is rarely terribly bad even if it isn't good. The reason for this is that Bonfire is fairly efficient when hard cast over a certain range that is easily reachable for a lot of decks to the point it isn't unreasonably overcosted. And then later in the game the miracle mechanic makes up for a lot of it's inefficiency. It's this universal flexibility and the specific need in decks that can't afford to kill their own creatures early that makes it both a powerful card and generally always a contender.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage