Question to the board: What is D&T's philosophy/line of play vs. Deathblade?
I recently came in third at my LGS out of 26 people. Small 5 round tournament and then top 8. I played Sneak Show (2-0), Stoneblade (1-1-1), Lands (2-0) Punishing Miracles (1-2), Junk (2-1) Esper Stoneblade (2-0) and Deathblade (0-2).
Against Deathblade, my opponent had 4 Swords to Plowshares, 4 Abrupt Decays, Detention Spheres and snapcasters. My Wastes only fed his Deathrite Shamans. Any recommendations on what to board or when to Wasteland?
Note: In the semis I played Jack Colwell who is sincerely an excellent player. How do I tool up for a rematch?
I also struggle with this matchup. Winning the equipment war is important. Bringing in extra removal like Sunlance is also good as Deathrite is really the glue holding the deck together. Geist is a very tough card to deal with, though.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I've always had trouble against storm, regardless of the quality of the hand. Most of my losses in competitive Legacy events have been to ANT, TES, and Belcher. I may need to mulligan more aggressively; I'll have to do more testing.
The hand I kept, but thought hard about tossing back was, I believe:
Aether Vial, Mother of Runes, Plains, Plains Horizon Canopy, Rishadan Port. This hand could have potentially gone back, and potentially should have. I'm just quite reluctant to go to 5 in general unless the hand does not have any playables/land.
I don't know that two sb swords are necessary, but I really like having one. The Feast and Famine was really great today, so I might play that again. It was absolutely nuts to equip, attack, and then be able to double Port during my opponent's turn. SoLaS has been good for me in the past, especially against Maverick, the mirror, and decks with Swords to Plowshares. Either way, having protection from relevant removal spells is really good, as is blocking Goyf/KoTR all day. It's sort of like having a 5th Mirran Crusader in the deck, which is pretty good imo.
Belcher is a special case because of the Goblin Charbelcher wincon. Empty the Warrens wincon is hard, but I have, very rarely, raced them and won, especially with Batterskull. And Tendrils of Agony wincon is very hard, but it might be the most winnable of the three by percentages. Fwiw, I find bounce to be the disruption of choice that I see, especially Chain of Vapor, but also Echoing Truth, and rarely Rushing River. In that case they can win through a hate bear pretty handily. I have tried Faith's Shield as a supplement, but don't side out your Mother of Runeses.
Wynk, I think perhaps you were just unlucky. Deathblade is so greedy with its manabase and he probably just happened to always something to make the colors he needed. This is not the "average" scenario in my experience. You stop DRS and hit the right dual with a Waste, they can become completely diminutive in board presence.
Wynk, I think perhaps you were just unlucky. Deathblade is so greedy with its manabase and he probably just happened to always something to make the colors he needed. This is not the "average" scenario in my experience. You stop DRS and hit the right dual with a Waste, they can become completely diminutive in board presence.
That is a possibility. However, with the 8+ removal spells I had serious issues keeping my Revoker alive on DRS or any creature on the board for more than 2 turns. Everytime I revokered his Deathrite Shaman or had Mother of Runes he STP'd or Decayed it without fail.
He also played what felt like 3 straight Stoneforge Mystics. Perhaps it was just not meant to be?
It made me want to put Cataclysms in my board again.
That is a possibility. However, with the 8+ removal spells I had serious issues keeping my Revoker alive on DRS or any creature on the board for more than 2 turns. Everytime I revokered his Deathrite Shaman or had Mother of Runes he STP'd or Decayed it without fail.
He also played what felt like 3 straight Stoneforge Mystics. Perhaps it was just not meant to be?
It made me want to put Cataclysms in my board again.
I lost a game against Deathblade after a resolved Cataclysm at SCG Balt. It's not really a deathbreaker since they can recover very quickly if they rip a deathrite.
Though I've only played it a few times, the only games I've lost to Deathblade were those where a dark confidant stuck, which is something our deck has always struggled against. Bring in any extra spot removal you have, and relics probably are good too, as they eat the deathrite food without costing us a card. The mana base is very greedy, so mana denial is really at its prime.
Our first strike creatures will help us with the equipment war if they have jitte, and Mirran Crusader also holds down the fort against Batterskull.
Also, do not overextend into Supreme Verdict post board; most of the lists I have seen run about 2.
I lost a game against Deathblade after a resolved Cataclysm at SCG Balt. It's not really a deathbreaker since they can recover very quickly if they rip a deathrite.
This is what I'm talking about. If Cata was actually an "I win" card, then of course I would play it. It's not, so I don't.
The last time I ever used it was a match against Elves. I had Cata in my opening grip and was giddy when he passed after his turn 3 with a board chock full of elves. I resolved it, and guess what? He won 2 turns later anyway. That was after I durdled my next turn since I didn't have enough land to cast anything. There are perhaps 2 decks being frequently played now that have a hard time rebuilding after a Cata, which screams "wayyy too niche" to me.
This is what I'm talking about. If Cata was actually an "I win" card, then of course I would play it. It's not, so I don't.
The last time I ever used it was a match against Elves. I had Cata in my opening grip and was giddy when he passed after his turn 3 with a board chock full of elves. I resolved it, and guess what? He won 2 turns later anyway. That was after I durdled my next turn since I didn't have enough land to cast anything. There are perhaps 2 decks being frequently played now that have a hard time rebuilding after a Cata, which screams "wayyy too niche" to me.
It's bonkers against Miracles. It's really good against Elves and Goblins if you are behind. It is in theory good against Empty the Warrens Storm hands IF you make it to 4 mana without dying. It is in theory good against affinity, though they can keep a Vault Skirge, a land, and a Cranial Plating in their god hands, which is just awful for us.
I may regret it, but I cut it last week, and will probably keep testing without it.
Edit: On a similar note, we may need to reevaluate the Elves match up post-M14 rules changes. I expect that the deck might be [even more] insane once it has the ability to play a "second" cradle in one turn, and we may need to start treating the deck much more like a storm deck than anything else.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you beat Deathblade in the semis at that KnightWare tourney from a month ago? You seemed to wreck it then.
Good point. I needed the reality check. I probably let my frustration get the best of me. I'll rethink the Cataclysm plan as well. Thanks for the advice guys.
Regarding Elves: My current tentative plan is to board in 3 Canonists and 3 Chalice of the Voids. Mindbreak Trap also works but it can be hit or miss. Aven Mindscensor/Grafdiggr's Cage are other cards that help but anything cast turn 3 may be too late.
Desthblade isn't a particularly difficult matchup for DnT. Your aim is to equip some equipment onto a flier, like a Jitte, and just snowball it for the win. Cataclysm and Sunlance are the MVPs in the matchup, a DB without mana cannot do anything since they have much less board presence than us.
Can anyone see an advantage of Haunted Plate Mail over Batterskull? I suppose it survives Terminus and Liliana, but it lacks the vigilance and life gain. Also, it costs less to hardcast and equip. Still seems like a bad deal.
Can anyone see an advantage of Haunted Plate Mail over Batterskull? I suppose it survives Terminus and Liliana, but it lacks the vigilance and life gain. Also, it costs less to hardcast and equip. Still seems like a bad deal.
Agreed, it seems worse in most scenarios. The only thing I can think of where I might rather have HPM is against decks like the newest iterations of Deathblade, which try to keep the board clear and often win with Geist. But the lifelink and vigilance combo is way too good to pass up.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I like Finn's sb if you want to use tutors, but if you want a full blown tutor board, you might want a thorn of amethyst in there somewhere, another oring, and a serenity or cop red. Stony Silence, Absolute Law, and Aura of Silence are probably cut-able imo.
The other problem of Haunted Plate Mail is that it becomes the creature, making it incredibly susceptible to Swords to Plowshares - you lose the equipment entirely.
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
I'm thinking Haunted Plate Mail is sideboard material at best! Doesnt replace batterskull obviously, but against repeat removal, it makes them think about killing every of your guys!
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Modern: RBW Mardu Pyro X Eldrazi
Pauper: X Affinity G Stompy
Because it stays on the board. If they kill the mystic they have a instant speed 4/4 to worry about every turn to the rest of the game, if they can't deal with it. And right now, jund cant deal with it, for example. And you can just equip it.
My point is, it dodges alot of cards, and can be good versus the correct deck. It has the same trouble activating mishra's factory against swords to plowshares, thats why im saying, it merits some sb testing.
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Modern: RBW Mardu Pyro X Eldrazi
Pauper: X Affinity G Stompy
Eh, we don't have the Kiki/Twin combo or any haste creatures in Legacy. Let's keep it in mind if something along those lines does come along, but for now there's no strong use for it.
Modern: Modern is Bad
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
I also struggle with this matchup. Winning the equipment war is important. Bringing in extra removal like Sunlance is also good as Deathrite is really the glue holding the deck together. Geist is a very tough card to deal with, though.
Belcher is a special case because of the Goblin Charbelcher wincon. Empty the Warrens wincon is hard, but I have, very rarely, raced them and won, especially with Batterskull. And Tendrils of Agony wincon is very hard, but it might be the most winnable of the three by percentages. Fwiw, I find bounce to be the disruption of choice that I see, especially Chain of Vapor, but also Echoing Truth, and rarely Rushing River. In that case they can win through a hate bear pretty handily. I have tried Faith's Shield as a supplement, but don't side out your Mother of Runeses.
J
That is a possibility. However, with the 8+ removal spells I had serious issues keeping my Revoker alive on DRS or any creature on the board for more than 2 turns. Everytime I revokered his Deathrite Shaman or had Mother of Runes he STP'd or Decayed it without fail.
He also played what felt like 3 straight Stoneforge Mystics. Perhaps it was just not meant to be?
It made me want to put Cataclysms in my board again.
I lost a game against Deathblade after a resolved Cataclysm at SCG Balt. It's not really a deathbreaker since they can recover very quickly if they rip a deathrite.
Though I've only played it a few times, the only games I've lost to Deathblade were those where a dark confidant stuck, which is something our deck has always struggled against. Bring in any extra spot removal you have, and relics probably are good too, as they eat the deathrite food without costing us a card. The mana base is very greedy, so mana denial is really at its prime.
Our first strike creatures will help us with the equipment war if they have jitte, and Mirran Crusader also holds down the fort against Batterskull.
Also, do not overextend into Supreme Verdict post board; most of the lists I have seen run about 2.
This is what I'm talking about. If Cata was actually an "I win" card, then of course I would play it. It's not, so I don't.
The last time I ever used it was a match against Elves. I had Cata in my opening grip and was giddy when he passed after his turn 3 with a board chock full of elves. I resolved it, and guess what? He won 2 turns later anyway. That was after I durdled my next turn since I didn't have enough land to cast anything. There are perhaps 2 decks being frequently played now that have a hard time rebuilding after a Cata, which screams "wayyy too niche" to me.
It's bonkers against Miracles. It's really good against Elves and Goblins if you are behind. It is in theory good against Empty the Warrens Storm hands IF you make it to 4 mana without dying. It is in theory good against affinity, though they can keep a Vault Skirge, a land, and a Cranial Plating in their god hands, which is just awful for us.
I may regret it, but I cut it last week, and will probably keep testing without it.
Edit: On a similar note, we may need to reevaluate the Elves match up post-M14 rules changes. I expect that the deck might be [even more] insane once it has the ability to play a "second" cradle in one turn, and we may need to start treating the deck much more like a storm deck than anything else.
Good point. I needed the reality check. I probably let my frustration get the best of me. I'll rethink the Cataclysm plan as well. Thanks for the advice guys.
Regarding Elves: My current tentative plan is to board in 3 Canonists and 3 Chalice of the Voids. Mindbreak Trap also works but it can be hit or miss. Aven Mindscensor/Grafdiggr's Cage are other cards that help but anything cast turn 3 may be too late.
Agreed, it seems worse in most scenarios. The only thing I can think of where I might rather have HPM is against decks like the newest iterations of Deathblade, which try to keep the board clear and often win with Geist. But the lifelink and vigilance combo is way too good to pass up.
Something like?
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Stony Silence
1 Absolute Law
1 Aura of Silence
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
"Death & Taxes"
Legacy:
"Death & Taxes"
I like Finn's sb if you want to use tutors, but if you want a full blown tutor board, you might want a thorn of amethyst in there somewhere, another oring, and a serenity or cop red. Stony Silence, Absolute Law, and Aura of Silence are probably cut-able imo.
-MTG Salvation.
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy
My point is, it dodges alot of cards, and can be good versus the correct deck. It has the same trouble activating mishra's factory against swords to plowshares, thats why im saying, it merits some sb testing.
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy
Here's the newest hatebear. This probably isn't good enough though.
http://blog.mtgdeals.com/article-contest/there-are-two-things-certain-in-life-an-intro-to-death-and-taxes/
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
that's not really a hatebear. it doesn't really do anything except clear blockers for a turn, which is an effect that I'll almost never want in D&T
edit: the one relevant application I can think of is against Sneak Attack, but that still doesn't make it a viable choice (compare to Revoker)
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Sweet! Congratulations.
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch
Great! What did you win?