MTG Salvation

I like all of those, except the Pyroclasm change. If you do chose one, take out Slagstorm.

Quote from agent56k

I like all of those, except the Pyroclasm change. If you do chose one, take out Slagstorm.

Kinda what I was leaning towards, but I posted the question in the this or that to get more input.

You FINALLY put your cube up!!!!

Yep, I resleaved it, and spent the last 3 days taking pictures and trying to figure out how to post everything on here.

Drafted last night, did terrible. Built a really intresting, but super gimmicky deck



Man this thing was exciting when I was building it, and MMMAAANNN did it suck. I was able to stall out games but never push it over the top. Also running into Wurmcoil Engine is a pain for a deck like this. Somehow never ran into a big sweeper, but got controled or ran into Wurmcoils to end this deck's run...

Small Change, also offically added Dragon's Maze to the OP as well.
04/27/2013
Out ---> In
Ranger of Eos ---> Hokori, Dust Drinker

My playgroup HATED Ranger of Eos. Legit, every time we cube "I don't know why this card is in here, it isn't that good." My friend suggested Hokori, Dust Drinker as a unique effect for a modern cube, also would help out the aggro builds.

So, is Hexproof really that good?
My cube already does not play protection from any color creature, in fact the only way to give creatures pro colors is through equiping any of the sword of x and y. But hexproof seems better to me. The ability to shut your opponent off from your creature is really strong (same could be said about protection from color), and leads to plays that aren't that interactive.This brings me to my question, should hexproof be in a cube that is trying to be as interactive and possibly unique as possible?

First let's take a look at the cards currently in the cube that have hexproof.


Starting off with Geist of Saint Traft. 1WU for a 2/2 with an ability is normally a great. Hexproof, well that makes it better. Attack and get a 4/4 angel attacking... Who thought this was fair? An aggro bomb in colors that are normally not playing aggro. I feel like this card warps the game around him, but warps the game way to early.
If this card was removed, my change would look like this
Out ---> In
Geist of Saint Traft ---> Wall of Denial/Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
The choices here are do we want a card that just blocks FOREVER, or is the unique taxing ability worth putting in the cube.

Now the green creatures with hexproof are a different story. These creatures help against the control mathup vastly for the aggro decks. Thrun is a finisher, and Troll with an equipment is a finisher as well. As the issue with hexproof creatures they aren't too interactive. Now is the hexproof here worth leaving in to help out the aggro decks against control, or is it worth removing the hexproof creratures to keep the cube more interactive.
If the green hexproof creatures were removed, the changes would look like this. And there are two different routes to go with this.
Route 1
Out ---> In
Troll Ascetic ---> Awakening Zone
Thrun, the Last Troll ---> Obstinate Baloth
Awakening Zone helps Ramp decks and sadly control decks. Baloth is Baloth.

Route 2
Out ---> In
Troll Ascetic ---> Wolfir Avenger
Thrun, the Last Troll ---> Wolfir Silverheart
This route is because of one player who loves Master of the Wild Hunt and wants to pull off a small subtheme of Wolf Trible. Huntmaster of the Fells and Mayor of Avabruck help support this.

Thanks for reading this odd update, look forward to hearing your thoughts on the hexproof issue.

I honestly haven't had that hard of a time with hexproof creatures. Geist is one that I've had to leave back plenty of times before because they could just block him to death. Thrun is probably the biggest offender since he also can regenerate, which also makes sweepers bad against him. I wouldn't cut any of them because they're too good though, troll ascetic isn't that great of a card anymore so that could be a cut for another reason, but I don't think hexproof makes it any better. Though my cube also has low cost edict effects, which a modern cube can't have. If you decide to take the guys out though, I like Grand arbiter over wall, and the obsinate baloth/awakening zone swap the most.

I dont think hexproof is too powerful and is needed actually. Green already has a tough time against control so if you cut those cards it'll struggle even more. The only suggested cut I like here is Geist for Arbiter since you just added Hokori.

Quote from MrDumpkins

I honestly haven't had that hard of a time with hexproof creatures. Geist is one that I've had to leave back plenty of times before because they could just block him to death. Thrun is probably the biggest offender since he also can regenerate, which also makes sweepers bad against him. I wouldn't cut any of them because they're too good though, troll ascetic isn't that great of a card anymore so that could be a cut for another reason, but I don't think hexproof makes it any better. Though my cube also has low cost edict effects, which a modern cube can't have. If you decide to take the guys out though, I like Grand arbiter over wall, and the obsinate baloth/awakening zone swap the most.

I appericiate your info on hexproof. Agreed that Thrun, the Last Troll is the biggest offender, but I'm finding him necessary to help green and aggro decks agaisnt control and sweepers (as you said).
Basically I'm finding myself having the hexproof issue with Geist of Saint Traft. I know it can be blocked to death, Cruel Edict'd, etc. etc. etc. It just feels so odd in colors that normally don't play an aggro gameplan. Maybe I am over-evaulating this card...

The bolded part sparks another discussion for a card I've been thinking about, Abyssal Persecutor.
Looking at ways black in my cube currently can handle this card



I feel within black that of the nine spells (Three of which are X spells, Two of those X spells need a ton of mana to handle Persecutor, and Liliana 3.0 needs six swamps) isn't enough reliable ways to take care of Persecutor, and would need to add support like Devour Flesh/Geth's Verdict/Smallpox (which is a card I should really be looking at, trying to push Crucible of Worlds. I know their is plenty of ways in other colors to remove Persecutor, but I think black should be able to handle it better, and as of now it can not. Basically, is the Persecutor worth playing and is it a good idea to add in one to three more spells to support it?

Quote from stubobj

I dont think hexproof is too powerful and is needed actually. Green already has a tough time against control so if you cut those cards it'll struggle even more. The only suggested cut I like here is Geist for Arbiter since you just added Hokori.

My friends suggested this, and am finding myself agreeing with this train of thought. Still unsure of any hexproof change, but if one happens, Geist will leave for Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Troll Ascetic and Thrun will stay.

Fleshbag Marauder and Magus of the Abyss have been doing well for us in addition to some of the cards already mentioned. Id also look into other colors when drafting because Persecutor has made it into BR and BU before and done well. Its a card we are enjoying at the moment.

Changes for 05-03-2013
These include the already talked about Dragon's Maze changes
Out ---> In
Wipe Away ---> Ætherling
Barter in Blood ---> Blood Scrivener
Massacre Wurm ---> Abyssal Persecutor
Slagstorm ---> Pyrewild Shaman
Geist of Saint Traft ---> Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Knight of the Reliquary ---> Voice of Resurgence
Desolate Lighthouse ---> Ral Zarek
Ratchet Bomb ---> Engineered Explosives

For the other changes.
Grand Arbiter comes in for the unique ability it has. With the hexproof discussion, I feel Geist would be okay to leave in (even if I think this creature is in printed in the wrong colors), but like I said, Arbiter has a unique ability and I would like to try it out.
Persecutor comes in after counting the ways he can be dealt with in other colors, and I feel okay putting it in now.
Engineered Explosives is better than Ratchet Bomb, IMO.

The problem I have with cutting Barter is, that it is one more way to deal with Persecutor.

Quote from agent56k

The problem I have with cutting Barter is, that it is one more way to deal with Persecutor.

EEK! This is true, however, the amount of ways to deal with it is a good number without Barter... Care to suggest another card to cut then, as the cut was originally intended to help out aggro.

Mind Shatter. You have quite a bit of discard already, and that one is a bit awkward to cast.

Unless Liliana of the Dark Realms has been doing some amazing work for you Id suggest dropping that to give Fleshbag Marauder a go. I can't give this guy enough props. He's good in a variety of decks and can be amazing in the deck Persecutor is usually in. Hes much better than Barter in Blood since you can abuse him.

Quote from agent56k

Mind Shatter. You have quite a bit of discard already, and that one is a bit awkward to cast.

Quote from stubobj

Unless Liliana of the Dark Realms has been doing some amazing work for you Id suggest dropping that to give Fleshbag Marauder a go. I can't give this guy enough props. He's good in a variety of decks and can be amazing in the deck Persecutor is usually in. Hes much better than Barter in Blood since you can abuse him.

I find myself agreeing with these suggestions. Liliana has been a DUD! I really can't think of anyone using it... ever...

Shatter is awkward to cast, and I agree with the amount of discard the cube has is higher than most.

Revised changes for 05-03-2013
Out ---> In
Wipe Away ---> Ætherling
Mind Shatter ---> Blood Scrivener
Liliana of the Dark Realms ---> Fleshbag Marauder
Massacre Wurm ---> Abyssal Persecutor
Slagstorm ---> Pyrewild Shaman
Harmonize ---> Obstinate Baloth
Geist of Saint Traft ---> Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Knight of the Reliquary ---> Voice of Resurgence
Desolate Lighthouse ---> Ral Zarek
Ratchet Bomb ---> Engineered Explosives

EDIT: Wanted to get Masked Admirers (I like it) back in, and Harmonize is another card that has been a dud.
EDIT 2: Changed my mind after playing with Obstinate Baloth after playing with it on MTGO's cube today.

I haven't had a chance in a long time to play, but I ams still motivated to keep it, hopefully playing soon, but real life keeps getting busier and busier.

Small Changes
06-09-2013
In ---> Out
Desercation Demon ---> Sewer Nemesis
Temporal Mastery ---> Mind Control
Dormi Rade ---> Stormbind

Sewer Nemesis saw no play, and Mind Control was talked about in the this and that discussion, and I decided to cut it for another, but different, extra turn. Stormbind just doesn't fit here. Dormi comes in to help the midrange decks and to be "sort of removal" for aggro.

Bump to 450?
This is something I've been thinking about for a few months now. The idea is to expand current archetypes, help archetypes that are struggling, and introduce a new archretype.

The new 90 (7 each color, 20 multicolor [10 lands], 25 arftifacts, 10 lands) - Including M14

Artifacts gets a nice boost here, some colorless fatties for the reanimator decks. Hate for reanimator comes in.
Land destruction/pox decks get help, hopefully boosting the value of Crucible of Worlds
Landfall aggro has a small theme with the Kudzu, adventuring gear, Plated Geopede and Steppe Lynx, which all conviently play well with Wild Nactal Also has plenty of fetchlands to support this small interaction as well.

Defentally looking forward to thoughts and feedback about this possibility.

After a quick look at your possible inclusions, it seems as though you are really trying to force the artifact deck. Cards like the artifact lands are dangerous to use, and even outright useless unless you get one of the Tezzerets.

It also looks like you're trying to add to much mana fixing. I don't think you need to have the vivid lands. The three primary land cycles and one more of another, maybe a mixture of man lands and bouncelands for your fourth cycle.

Quote from agent56k

After a quick look at your possible inclusions, it seems as though you are really trying to force the artifact deck. Cards like the artifact lands are dangerous to use, and even outright useless unless you get one of the Tezzerets.

It also looks like you're trying to add to much mana fixing. I don't think you need to have the vivid lands. The three primary land cycles and one more of another, maybe a mixture of man lands and bouncelands for your fourth cycle.

I am trying to include an artifact archetype. Agree with your analysis of the artifact lands, (Even if I love to Trinket Mage them up), so those could easily go.

I do like the vivid lands, but am always open to suggestions. I'm assuming a mixture of bonuce/man/utility lands would look something like this


Which is probably worlds better than the vivid's and artifact lands

Move the U/W and U/B to the land section and add spells to those empty slots. Other than that, the others look good.

Hi Tom,

I recently posted my [360][Modern]Cube.
Please have a look.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10728314&posted=1#post10728314

Feedback is very welcome.