MTG Salvation

Primordial Hydra is a scarier threat as a 4-drop, but if you have the 5 mana to spend, this is the better hydra, because it gets trample faster.

The applications for +1/+1 counters on your other creatures are not inconsiderable either.

Quote from Rubin

I'm skeptical of this guy mainly because Primordial Hydra has failed to make any waves in cube or any competitive format. I'm not even sure that this card is better than primordial because it can't do anything at 3-4 mana. Sure, this hits harder when cast for 5 mana, but to be fair primordial hydra will still win the game unanswered.

I don't think they're too comparable since if you cast both at the same time, one is in bolt range and the other isn't. And Kalonian Hydra gets trample on the first attack, which primordial could only get if you cast it on turn 7! It's nice to be able to run primordial out any time to fill out your curve easier, but he doesn't kill your opponent in 2 hits like kalonian will.

Two swings with this bad boy and your opponent enters scoop phase (in most cases). Can't say the same about hydra jr. unfortunately.

Quote from Killane

The applications for +1/+1 counters on your other creatures are not inconsiderable either.

This ability really gets me excited with simic/golgari cards.

Quote from Bionut911

This ability really gets me excited with simic/golgari cards.

I don't know, but I somehow think doubling +1/+1 counters on other creatures you control is flavor text because it seems very much win-more in most cases I can think of.

Thi is the card im most excited about from m14.
This card can be tutore unlike other hydras, it can be reanimated, reveillarked and all that goodness. I think primordial is good but versatility of cmc is a lot worse then the efficency of this creature as well as its other upsides.

Doibling on other creatures is just like being a lord, which isnt always win more. I swing with hydra get my 3/3 experiment one to a 5/5 and can easily block my opponents thragtusk.

Quote from Nof

Which of these cards would you include before Kalonian Hydra? Which would you cut for Kalonian Hydra?

Acidic Slime
Thragtusk = Above

Vorapede = =

Deranged Hermit
Genesis
Wolfir Silverheart = below
Indrik Stomphowler
Thornling
Primordial Hydra
Scute Mob

thats mine

Quote from Nof

Which of these cards would you include before Kalonian Hydra? Which would you cut for Kalonian Hydra?

Acidic Slime
Thragtusk
Deranged Hermit
Vorapede
Genesis
Wolfir Silverheart
Indrik Stomphowler
Thornling
Primordial Hydra
Scute Mob

I'd keep Acidic Slime, Thragtusk and Vorapede.

Quote from hardb0dy

I'd keep Acidic Slime, Thragtusk and Vorapede.

Add deranged hermit to that and you have my choices over it. Though I could see the hydra being better than vorapede.

Quote from Nof

Which of these cards would you include before Kalonian Hydra? Which would you cut for Kalonian Hydra?

Acidic Slime
Thragtusk
Deranged Hermit
Vorapede
Genesis
Wolfir Silverheart
Indrik Stomphowler
Thornling
Primordial Hydra
Scute Mob

1. Wolfir Silverheart
2. Thragtusk
3. Deranged Hermit
4. Kalonian Hydra
5. Acidic Slime
6. Indrik Stomphowler
7. Vorapede
8. Thornling
9. Genesis
10. Scute Mob

I had this card in a deck tonight & it only hit the board one time for me. My opponent stole it with a Control Magic & proceeded to beat me with it. I eventually got Hornet Queen tokens out so I was good to kill it...after I died. The crazy thing is that I had Zealous Conscripts in my hand & if I had a red mana I would have been able to temporarily steal it back & win the game.

This was a small sample size but it definitely proved its worth tonight. I'm really struggling on how to rank the green 5-drops but I am definitely adding this to my 540 Cube. Is nine 5-drops (counting Wickerbough Elder) too many?

He was nuts every time he wasn't answered, just like I expected. Of the games I saw since his inclusion he was Dismembered once and the other three games he won all by himself. My friends said stuff like "omg he has trample too?" "attacking as an 8/8... seems good" "I don't know how you beat this card"

I feel like he's a great addition to cube. Much better than Vorapede and probably better than Wolfir Silverheart because he doesn't need anything else, doesn't get owned with spot removal and has trample, though is much worse at blocking and doesn't give +4/+4 to another dude.

Plus he comes back with Reveillark and can be searched with Imperial Recruiter.

Quote from kingneb

Is nine 5-drops (counting Wickerbough Elder) too many?

You should cut Vorapede for him. Green intensive, small butt usually ends up dying the first time, doesn't do anywhere near the amount of damage Hydra does. Good card but doesn't get the job done like Hydra.

Quote from Darkmindtone

1. Wolfir Silverheart
2. Thragtusk
3. Deranged Hermit
4. Kalonian Hydra
5. Acidic Slime
6. Indrik Stomphowler
7. Vorapede
8. Thornling
9. Genesis
10. Scute Mob

I'm surprised you have Vorapede so low. He is always insane for us. We don't have Deranged Hermit as high because Symbol Status is so much better (like, "best green card" better).

So at 270 I guess our list would be (not in order)

Thragtusk
Vorapede
Kalonian Hydra
Wolfir Silverheart

Acidic Slime may or may not deserve to be included but none of us think as highly of it so we don't have it in our Cube currently

No other color in our Cube gets that many 5 drops let alone color intensive ones (don't forget Garruk, Primal Hunter) but Green is the color equipped to handle the casting cost and high commitment. Even so, our Cube is FAST so even Green may not want five 5 drops at 270 for us. Black and Red have < 5 total cards that cost that much and we've been openly questioning White's stable of 5s for quite some time (Gideon being untouchable)

Hermit (still the best one, IMO.)
Thragtusk (no good way to deal with him)
Slime (endless utility)
Vorapede (resilient beater)
Kalonian Hydra (Extremely efficient beater)
Silverheart (fun, powerful beater, but susceptible to blowouts and needs another creature)

I don't count genesis because he mostly gets discarded, and only ever played as a 5 drop if you're in trouble.

Deranged Hermit (Easily abused; 9 power and 5 bodies)
Thragtusk (Just insane guaranteed value)
Genesis (Shores up weakness against worst matchup; grinds out wins in long games thru CA)
Acidic Slime (Solid ETB effect that's always valuable; trades with other late-game threats)
Vorapede (Trample + vigilance wins races; survives removal)
Kalonian Hydra/Wolfir Silverheart (Both have insane power/cost ratios ...don't know which I prefer yet)

Genesis has seriously underperformed for our group in the last few drafts when it was maindecked. Yesterday we subbed in the Hydra for it and mother of God. Sure it doesn't pass the stupid Vindicate test but if this guy can survive a turn or two it's probably game.

It certainly doesn't hurt that my playgroup loves to turn big honkers sideways.

I started drooling when I saw this card. I love me my big, dump beaters with trample. Thanks god I'm running Indrik Stomphowler, Wickerbough Elder, and Chameleon Colossus so I have a few choices for cuts.

Quote from obiwan6986

Genesis has seriously underperformed for our group in the last few drafts when it was maindecked.

I've had similar results. It's almost like the decks that genesis goes into doesn't really need him. If I wasn't running both disenchant 4/4s I'd seriously consider dropping Genesis.

I might test out this guy in the place of Vorapede for a while (I'm definitely not cutting Genesis for it :confused2:). It exchanges vigilance and undying for an easier casting cost and a better power/cost ratio. Plus, it has incidental value with other +1/+1 counter creatures.

I honsetly don't see the Genesis hate... for the same mana as Volrath's Stronghold you get to put the card into your hand instead of on top of your library. It opens your options to a whole nother level in what you are capable of doing in a turn.

Honestly though, Genesis is a skill card. You're actively having to think about what is better, using his ability, or saving the mana for the card your drawing. You have to know what's in your deck and what you need for that situation. If the player skill isn't there to utilize him properly (or just laziness in general, I get that way where I don't want to think *too* hard), than I can see how he would be lacking. And this is no insult to those who says he's not good, it's a tough thing to do, and I know if my player base wasn't so mixed (between strong tournament players and newbs), and was just new or casual players, I might've cut him just because my player's wouldn't be able to enjoy or harness his potential.

As for the hydra, stoked to play it but not sure what to cut in the meantime, gonna have to do some thinking for this one.

I don't know about you guys but my cube is very tempo nowadays. Genesis was a beast when I first built my list. My cube used to be midrange grindfeast.

Stronghold is sweet because you don't have to do any work to put it online. Plus blacks creatures are syngergistic and black isn't stacked like green is.

I'm fine with Genesis, he's sweet, just currently not running him.

I like vorapede a lot. It's powerful enough that dropping it a turn later because of color requirements isn't that big a deal. Green doesn't have any other creatures that big, evasive, and resilient until you get to 8 mana,which is a huge difference. I think stomphowler, silverheart, and genesis (who has never done anything impressive in my experience) are much better cuts. Genesis is just so incredibly slow.

Because of the typical decks that show up in our Cube drafts, I feel that Vorapede is much more important for us than Genesis. Vorapede helps stabilizing the board and applying pressure at the same time. Against many decks, Genesis is just never relevant because it is so slow. It is a good card, no doubt, but there are relatively few match-ups where it can play to its strength.

Wolfir Silverheart and the card that this here thread is about, Kalonian Hydra, apply so much pressure that you can go on offense because you kill the opponent in two turns. Personally, I prefer the safety Vorapede provides to the explosiveness of Hydra, but the Hydra sure can close the game very quickly.

Control still sees a lot of play in our cube, and Genesis is a great card against control. He's also great in midrange mirror matches that run long. Considering that control is the worst matchup for midrange green decks, I love having Genesis available to shore up that weakness. When games run long, Genesis wins those games for you. Plus, he has other cool uses and interactions in the cube, for GY strategies, with Sneak Attack and paying discard drawbacks and more.

I feel that this Hydra is probably closest in function to Vorapede in that they're both big trampling beaters. The 'pede is more resilient, for sure, but it's hard to deny the raw powerlevel of a card like this new Hydra. It attacks for so much for so little. I dedicate one slot to each type of creature based on function. A token support card, ETB value creature, utility naturalize creature, grindy card advantage, and a big beater. This new big beater could replace the one I currently use in the cube, and if I wind up testing it, that's the slot it'll take up.

Quote from Magic-Jiffen

My normal decks have to many playables that I'm not in the Genesis hardcast business, hope that he dies somehow and grind from turn 13.


River Boa
Oracle of Mul Daya
Vorapede
Genesis

What would you cut?

I'd say Genesis or Oracle. For us Genesis played too often like you described. Grinding games beyond turn ten is not what most green decks really need in most match ups (in our cube).

Vorapede seems too strong to cut. Its resilience is very strong and I love cards that give me that kind of value in cube.