Again, Thragtusk has no affect on Kalonian Hydra. They are both utilized in completely different ways, sitting on opposite sides of the spectrum. The decks that use Thragtusk would not use Kalonian Hydra and likely vice versa.
Kalonian Hydra directly competes with Wolfir Silverheart IMO, which is sort of moot since they both only appear in one deck (Elves) and in conjunction with one another.
Also, it's important to remember that even if Kalonian Hydra isn't supplanted post Theros, that doesn't automatically mean it will see play. For instance, a control infested meta would be far too hostile for it to thrive.
Yeah it does, it's a finisher and in most boards the fastest finisher ever printed @ 5cc. Go research the price/market/demand of Hero of Bladehold pre and post Jace rotation. You'll notice Hero in weenie/midrange/AND control because of how good the card closes games by itself. Hydra is in the same boat. Like most have said, a $20+ price is going to depend on if Theros brings "Innistrad-like" creatures or "Return-to-Ravnica-like" creatures. However, it seems highly unlikely there will be a G/x control deck with incoming Duals unfriendly to Shocks and U/W losing very little post rotation. So Hydra will be the go-to for aggro/midrange G/x barring competition in Theros.
Interesting Imposing Sovereign is still seeing so little play. The "splash-damage" of all these hasters I thought for sure would make it an auto-include in W/x aggro but even Wescoe ditched it @ Worlds. So it might be smart to move them now before they become the next ~$1 2-drop.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Yeah it does, it's a finisher and in most boards the fastest finisher ever printed @ 5cc.
What does the Hydra being able to close out a game have to do with Thragtusk? All you did was just further substantiate my claim that they are unrelated. I feel like you just quoted me for ****s haha.
Go research the price/market/demand of Hero of Bladehold pre and post Jace rotation. You'll notice Hero in weenie/midrange/AND control because of how good the card closes games by itself. Hydra is in the same boat.
It would be in the same boat if it cost 4CMC, making it highly unlikely that the Hydra will be gracing any aggro decks, ever. The difference between attacking T5 and T6 is substantial in aggro. If you're going to use a card to argue in Kalonian Hydra's favor, it's usually best to at least start with one that costs the same.
Like most have said, a $20+ price is going to depend on if Theros brings "Innistrad-like" creatures or "Return-to-Ravnica-like" creatures.
You're the only one whose said this. You're also the only I've seen claim that it will be in every green deck post rotation, further perpetuating the notion that it's more than a dumb beat stick. It won't and it isn't.
So Hydra will be the go-to for aggro/midrange G/x barring competition in Theros.
More likely that the x in G/x will contain the finisher of the aggro/midrange deck you're talking about.
As for the go to green card in the G of the G/x aggro/midrange decks, its going to be elvish mystic. Not as flashy and epic as a hydra, but it does work.
I'm a bit shocked nobody has mentioned this (in fact nobody has posted at all lately), but Archangel of Thune took a jump from $24 to $28 in the past 48h. I'm sold out, but previously hadn't sold any.
Kalonian Hydra has cooled a bit to $26, putting Archangel solidly in top spot.
What does the Hydra being able to close out a game have to do with Thragtusk? All you did was just further substantiate my claim that they are unrelated. I feel like you just quoted me for ****s haha.
It would be in the same boat if it cost 4CMC, making it highly unlikely that the Hydra will be gracing any aggro decks, ever. The difference between attacking T5 and T6 is substantial in aggro. If you're going to use a card to argue in Kalonian Hydra's favor, it's usually best to at least start with one that costs the same.
You're the only one whose said this. You're also the only I've seen claim that it will be in every green deck post rotation, further perpetuating the notion that it's more than a dumb beat stick. It won't and it isn't.
I'm all ears for a better finisher in the 5spot post rotation. The only thing that comes close is Assemble the Legion but it's two colors and much, much slower. Go check other threads here, elsewhere, and chatter by Pros for more "analysis." I'm trying my best to stay on-topic while also mentioning past trends for block rotation/similar cards.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I'm a bit shocked nobody has mentioned this (in fact nobody has posted at all lately), but Archangel of Thune took a jump from $24 to $28 in the past 48h. I'm sold out, but previously hadn't sold any.
Kalonian Hydra has cooled a bit to $26, putting Archangel solidly in top spot.
I saw that on many card shop sites I shop from. In store prices are insane now and selling out. Folks are starting to see the angel for its power.
Lifebane Zombie is really picking up steam. Melissa Deltora in her recent article gave very high reviews and runs them mainboard. I ran it mainboard in my Jund before she did and love it!
The archangel is still worse than Kalonian Hydra and Sublime Angel.
Lifebane Zombie's price is supported by the current meta. After rotation he will drop as he does nothing against the top dog deck which will be packing 4 Jaces.
The archangel is still worse than Kalonian Hydra and Sublime Angel.
Lifebane Zombie's price is supported by the current meta. After rotation he will drop as he does nothing against the top dog deck which will be packing 4 Jaces.
Agreed. Archangel seems like a loser to me. It probably attracts the same crowd as Sublime Archangel....devastating in the right circumstances, bad topdeck otherwise.
I'm surprised that Fiendslayer Paladin is still a solid $6. I want a few, but I don't think it's that good.
Shadowborn Demon has been consistently sold out at Star City for $10 each, it's still a decent $6 on magiccards.info, and there weren't too many on ebay when I checked. Is the little standard play it sees in reanimator sustaining his price, or perhaps speculators?
I personally like the card. I've been watching him a bit, hoping he went lower to scoop some up, but it hasn't gone down.
who buys this thing for 6$? and why is he even that high? i kinda dont get that^^.
I think it might be the art and name. It's kind of a BA card, even though it isn't particularly powerful. Pro red/black would have been sooooo much better.
who buys this thing for 6$? and why is he even that high? i kinda dont get that^^.
Wescoe ran a full set in his Boros Aggro (mostly White Weenie) build at Worlds. I've seen the build popping up online so there is some demand.
Personally, I feel the 2/2 body is a bit underwhelming for a 3 mana investment even with the abilities tacked on. It has to compete with stuff like Boros Reckoner and Loxodon Smiter which are clearly more capable in our creature-centric meta. I think it was just a (wise) meta call by Wescoe since he planned on seeing a ton of UWR at Worlds.
The archangel is still worse than Kalonian Hydra and Sublime Angel.
Lifebane Zombie's price is supported by the current meta. After rotation he will drop as he does nothing against the top dog deck which will be packing 4 Jaces.
Have you played against archangel of thune? If they get it online; it can be over quick. Don't underestimate the angel. Just saying X card is bad does not move the thread forward. Everything some how dies to removal, thus why isn't everyone just playing control decks? I hope you the satire.
I find Lifebane zombie to be great even if I can't remove anything. He gives me the opportunity to know what is in the hand for a black creature spell. It has saved me many games in not playing my bombs in the order I had previously planned to dodge removal. Lastly, the intimidate factor is huge. Kessig + intimidate has Won me many games with little effort. I generally only face 1 or 2 control type decks and the rest are solid aggro decks. If Theros gives us god creature cards or big monsters in green or white; I don't see how Lifebain zombie will see a decline post rotation.
I'm very excited about the Zombie too. 3/1 Intimidate for 3 with such an important effect is really great. The only thing that hurts its potential is the double black in the casting cost.
Double black is not that bad. I remember when everyone was casting [card]Hypnotic Specter[\card] back in the day and that was not to hard. Look at Vendlion Clique, double blue does not slow down people from playing it. Out of all of the hate cards from M14, at least you can do something with it the moment you play it as compared to the others except the blue one, but the blue one is lame control.
Have you played against archangel of thune? If they get it online; it can be over quick. Don't underestimate the angel. Just saying X card is bad does not move the thread forward. Everything some how dies to removal, thus why isn't everyone just playing control decks? I hope you the satire.
To underestimate the angel is to not pack removal. Thing is, the removal is more efficient in trading with the angel hence the angel is bad in the context of this standard
If the only removal in standard was 4BB destroy target creature at sorcery speed. Sure, the angel would be great, and so would the hydra, and so would practically any creature with CMC under 5
To underestimate the angel is to not pack removal. Thing is, the removal is more efficient in trading with the angel hence the angel is bad in the context of this standard
If the only removal in standard was 4BB destroy target creature at sorcery speed. Sure, the angel would be great, and so would the hydra, and so would practically any creature with CMC under 5
As I recall, the idea of creature decks is to out play the removal with enough dangerous creatures that the opponent runs out of removal spells. That is why Domri and the new Garruk are highly effective. Otherwise, how does mono green do so well currently? I play standard Jund and have run out of removal before.
As I recall, the idea of creature decks is to out play the removal with enough dangerous creatures that the opponent runs out of removal spells. That is why Domri and the new Garruk are highly effective. Otherwise, how does mono green do so well currently? I play standard Jund and have run out of removal before.
First off, only Domri is seeing play. Garruk is too slow and expensive.
The deck you're referring to is probably Kibler Gruul. A cursory glance at the decklist shows a list of creatures that either
a). Accelerates in the first couple turns
b). Impacts the board immediate as oppose to waiting a full turn
c). Versatility/utility at "haste" speed
And that is to be expected of any creature decks in the current day and age. Non-haste/non-immediate utility creatures just don't cut it anymore.
First off, only Domri is seeing play. Garruk is too slow and expensive.
The deck you're referring to is probably Kibler Gruul. A cursory glance at the decklist shows a list of creatures that either
a). Accelerates in the first couple turns
b). Impacts the board immediate as oppose to waiting a full turn
c). Versatility/utility at "haste" speed
And that is to be expected of any creature decks in the current day and age. Non-haste/non-immediate utility creatures just don't cut it anymore.
Give Garruk some credit, he can draw a lot of cards the turn you play him. I get kinda sick of all the "hate" on non control cards/decks. Give it some time and the new decks might surprise you post rotation. I have been even seeing more white lifegain or weenie decks popping up and they are not bad. I just don't want to see eldrazi style decks with god cards instead cause that was weird and broken.
And that is to be expected of any creature decks in the current day and age. Non-haste/non-immediate utility creatures just don't cut it anymore.
I think Archangel of Thune has better odds of maintaining value over something like Kalonian Hydra because it does/can have conditional ETB. She's clearly very "build around me" but in the right shell she'll be distributing counters the turn she hits the board (Trostani, Selesnya's Voice), possibly that turn during combat (with creatures like Fiendslayer Paladin) or rather quickly through other various methods (have extra mana to sink into Scavenging Ooze). She's also a bit more versatile as she can dig you out of a hole via Lifelink or threaten as an evasive beater after she grows. Ultimately, I still wouldn't buy in at her current price but I think the card has some real merit.
I think Archangel of Thune has better odds of maintaining value over something like Kalonian Hydra because it does/can have conditional ETB. She's clearly very "build around me" but in the right shell she'll be distributing counters the turn she hits the board (Trostani, Selesnya's Voice), possibly that turn during combat (with creatures like Fiendslayer Paladin) or rather quickly through other various methods (have extra mana to sink into Scavenging Ooze). She's also a bit more versatile as she can dig you out of a hole via Lifelink or threaten as an evasive beater after she grows. Ultimately, I still wouldn't buy in at her current price but I think the card has some real merit.
Build around me cards are limited by the cards surrounding it. Hence build-around-me. She just doesn't have any good support. Maybe if she read whenever you gain life, you put that many +1/+1 counters on each creature, I could see that being used more because the odds of you gaining life more than once in one turn just doesn't seem likely unless you plan to go infinite with reckoner. Also the card will maintain value, but not for standard, it will maintain value because its a mythic angel with a unique ability so its going to be casual driving the price of this card
Give Garruk some credit, he can draw a lot of cards the turn you play him.
If only every card was judged on the merit of what it can do in the best case scenario...
Even Garruk Primal hunter is seeing minimal play and it is one cmc less than new garruk.
I get kinda sick of all the "hate" on non control cards/decks. Give it some time and the new decks might surprise you post rotation.
Control is the surprise. It hasn't been viable for a while. This standard season featured mill as a win-con for Christ sakes. It just so happens that Wizards decides to print very good control cards which forces people to evaluate the rest of the pool very critically.
I have been even seeing more white lifegain or weenie decks popping up and they are not bad. I just don't want to see eldrazi style decks with god cards instead cause that was weird and broken.
Build around me cards are limited by the cards surrounding it. Hence build-around-me. She just doesn't have any good support. Maybe if she read whenever you gain life, you put that many +1/+1 counters on each creature, I could see that being used more because the odds of you gaining life more than once in one turn just doesn't seem likely unless you plan to go infinite with reckoner.
dtg99 just gave you three cards that are good support. i just saw all these cards used together by jonathan job yesterday and it looked powerful to me. i dont know if its quite worth the price either, but it certainly is powerful.
dtg99 just gave you three cards that are good support. i just saw all these cards used together by jonathan job yesterday and it looked powerful to me. i dont know if its quite worth the price either, but it certainly is powerful.
Can I see a decklist? I can't seem to find it.
Scavenging ooze is a good card to use with Angel, multiple triggers for just one mana. Trostani is iffy because it begs the question of just how many creatures can you land with the angel on the board already at once before it comes back to you. Scavenging ooze and trostani seems find by themselves, you're trying to hard to fit the angel in the deck. Honestly though, if you're playing G/W color combination, sticking in the angel of serenity seems much better because you have access to acceleration
Just as a note, this is Market Street Cafe, so discussions should be focused primarily on card prices - if you want to discuss decklists or tournament results beyond a basic level necessary for the primary focus of this thread, please do so in the relevant format subforum.
Thanks for your understanding.
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Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Yeah it does, it's a finisher and in most boards the fastest finisher ever printed @ 5cc. Go research the price/market/demand of Hero of Bladehold pre and post Jace rotation. You'll notice Hero in weenie/midrange/AND control because of how good the card closes games by itself. Hydra is in the same boat. Like most have said, a $20+ price is going to depend on if Theros brings "Innistrad-like" creatures or "Return-to-Ravnica-like" creatures. However, it seems highly unlikely there will be a G/x control deck with incoming Duals unfriendly to Shocks and U/W losing very little post rotation. So Hydra will be the go-to for aggro/midrange G/x barring competition in Theros.
Interesting Imposing Sovereign is still seeing so little play. The "splash-damage" of all these hasters I thought for sure would make it an auto-include in W/x aggro but even Wescoe ditched it @ Worlds. So it might be smart to move them now before they become the next ~$1 2-drop.
What does the Hydra being able to close out a game have to do with Thragtusk? All you did was just further substantiate my claim that they are unrelated. I feel like you just quoted me for ****s haha.
It would be in the same boat if it cost 4CMC, making it highly unlikely that the Hydra will be gracing any aggro decks, ever. The difference between attacking T5 and T6 is substantial in aggro. If you're going to use a card to argue in Kalonian Hydra's favor, it's usually best to at least start with one that costs the same.
You're the only one whose said this. You're also the only I've seen claim that it will be in every green deck post rotation, further perpetuating the notion that it's more than a dumb beat stick. It won't and it isn't.
More likely that the x in G/x will contain the finisher of the aggro/midrange deck you're talking about.
As for the go to green card in the G of the G/x aggro/midrange decks, its going to be elvish mystic. Not as flashy and epic as a hydra, but it does work.
Kalonian Hydra has cooled a bit to $26, putting Archangel solidly in top spot.
.
I'm all ears for a better finisher in the 5spot post rotation. The only thing that comes close is Assemble the Legion but it's two colors and much, much slower. Go check other threads here, elsewhere, and chatter by Pros for more "analysis." I'm trying my best to stay on-topic while also mentioning past trends for block rotation/similar cards.
I saw that on many card shop sites I shop from. In store prices are insane now and selling out. Folks are starting to see the angel for its power.
Lifebane Zombie is really picking up steam. Melissa Deltora in her recent article gave very high reviews and runs them mainboard. I ran it mainboard in my Jund before she did and love it!
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Lifebane Zombie's price is supported by the current meta. After rotation he will drop as he does nothing against the top dog deck which will be packing 4 Jaces.
Agreed. Archangel seems like a loser to me. It probably attracts the same crowd as Sublime Archangel....devastating in the right circumstances, bad topdeck otherwise.
I'm surprised that Fiendslayer Paladin is still a solid $6. I want a few, but I don't think it's that good.
who buys this thing for 6$? and why is he even that high? i kinda dont get that^^.
I personally like the card. I've been watching him a bit, hoping he went lower to scoop some up, but it hasn't gone down.
My current trade thread.
I think it might be the art and name. It's kind of a BA card, even though it isn't particularly powerful. Pro red/black would have been sooooo much better.
Wescoe ran a full set in his Boros Aggro (mostly White Weenie) build at Worlds. I've seen the build popping up online so there is some demand.
Personally, I feel the 2/2 body is a bit underwhelming for a 3 mana investment even with the abilities tacked on. It has to compete with stuff like Boros Reckoner and Loxodon Smiter which are clearly more capable in our creature-centric meta. I think it was just a (wise) meta call by Wescoe since he planned on seeing a ton of UWR at Worlds.
IMO, minimal upside.
Have you played against archangel of thune? If they get it online; it can be over quick. Don't underestimate the angel. Just saying X card is bad does not move the thread forward. Everything some how dies to removal, thus why isn't everyone just playing control decks? I hope you the satire.
I find Lifebane zombie to be great even if I can't remove anything. He gives me the opportunity to know what is in the hand for a black creature spell. It has saved me many games in not playing my bombs in the order I had previously planned to dodge removal. Lastly, the intimidate factor is huge. Kessig + intimidate has Won me many games with little effort. I generally only face 1 or 2 control type decks and the rest are solid aggro decks. If Theros gives us god creature cards or big monsters in green or white; I don't see how Lifebain zombie will see a decline post rotation.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Double black is not that bad. I remember when everyone was casting [card]Hypnotic Specter[\card] back in the day and that was not to hard. Look at Vendlion Clique, double blue does not slow down people from playing it. Out of all of the hate cards from M14, at least you can do something with it the moment you play it as compared to the others except the blue one, but the blue one is lame control.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
To underestimate the angel is to not pack removal. Thing is, the removal is more efficient in trading with the angel hence the angel is bad in the context of this standard
If the only removal in standard was 4BB destroy target creature at sorcery speed. Sure, the angel would be great, and so would the hydra, and so would practically any creature with CMC under 5
As I recall, the idea of creature decks is to out play the removal with enough dangerous creatures that the opponent runs out of removal spells. That is why Domri and the new Garruk are highly effective. Otherwise, how does mono green do so well currently? I play standard Jund and have run out of removal before.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
First off, only Domri is seeing play. Garruk is too slow and expensive.
The deck you're referring to is probably Kibler Gruul. A cursory glance at the decklist shows a list of creatures that either
a). Accelerates in the first couple turns
b). Impacts the board immediate as oppose to waiting a full turn
c). Versatility/utility at "haste" speed
And that is to be expected of any creature decks in the current day and age. Non-haste/non-immediate utility creatures just don't cut it anymore.
Give Garruk some credit, he can draw a lot of cards the turn you play him. I get kinda sick of all the "hate" on non control cards/decks. Give it some time and the new decks might surprise you post rotation. I have been even seeing more white lifegain or weenie decks popping up and they are not bad. I just don't want to see eldrazi style decks with god cards instead cause that was weird and broken.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I think Archangel of Thune has better odds of maintaining value over something like Kalonian Hydra because it does/can have conditional ETB. She's clearly very "build around me" but in the right shell she'll be distributing counters the turn she hits the board (Trostani, Selesnya's Voice), possibly that turn during combat (with creatures like Fiendslayer Paladin) or rather quickly through other various methods (have extra mana to sink into Scavenging Ooze). She's also a bit more versatile as she can dig you out of a hole via Lifelink or threaten as an evasive beater after she grows. Ultimately, I still wouldn't buy in at her current price but I think the card has some real merit.
Build around me cards are limited by the cards surrounding it. Hence build-around-me. She just doesn't have any good support. Maybe if she read whenever you gain life, you put that many +1/+1 counters on each creature, I could see that being used more because the odds of you gaining life more than once in one turn just doesn't seem likely unless you plan to go infinite with reckoner. Also the card will maintain value, but not for standard, it will maintain value because its a mythic angel with a unique ability so its going to be casual driving the price of this card
If only every card was judged on the merit of what it can do in the best case scenario...
Even Garruk Primal hunter is seeing minimal play and it is one cmc less than new garruk.
Control is the surprise. It hasn't been viable for a while. This standard season featured mill as a win-con for Christ sakes. It just so happens that Wizards decides to print very good control cards which forces people to evaluate the rest of the pool very critically.
Weenies had their run. It's called Naya Blitz.
dtg99 just gave you three cards that are good support. i just saw all these cards used together by jonathan job yesterday and it looked powerful to me. i dont know if its quite worth the price either, but it certainly is powerful.
Can I see a decklist? I can't seem to find it.
Scavenging ooze is a good card to use with Angel, multiple triggers for just one mana. Trostani is iffy because it begs the question of just how many creatures can you land with the angel on the board already at once before it comes back to you. Scavenging ooze and trostani seems find by themselves, you're trying to hard to fit the angel in the deck. Honestly though, if you're playing G/W color combination, sticking in the angel of serenity seems much better because you have access to acceleration
Thanks for your understanding.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
A solid SB option. $8-$10 long term.