I'm of the opinion that the loss of Snapcaster/ Resto and nearly all the cheap cantrips not named Azorius Charm was a serious blow to draw-go as a whole.
Tapout control on the other hand seems much better positioned but that could just be me being biased.
@chili01
4 Aetherling seems way too many and the Keyrune seems out of place. I would suggest some number of Rewinds and to diversify your counters and removal a bit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
I'm of the opinion that the loss of Snapcaster/ Resto and nearly all the cheap cantrips not named Azorius Charm was a serious blow to draw-go as a whole.
Tapout control on the other hand seems much better positioned but that could just be me being biased.
@chili01
4 Aetherling seems way too many and the Keyrune seems out of place. I would suggest some number of Rewinds and to diversify your counters and removal a bit.
OTOH Cavern of Souls leaving means countermagic will get a bit better, even though the cards themselves are nothing to write home about. Similarly there are a lot of instant speed removal available to us, while the permanents available to us are not that good besides Jace and Aetherling of course.
Still the mirror is looking pretty stale at this point. What do you think is better; Lazav, Lili's Reaver, or Nightveil Specter in that MU?
Regardless I think we can agree that a mix of counters and removal is a step in the right direction as a general rule of thumb.
@Aegraen
Spectre and it really isn't even close
To be more to the point sure it might seem like a back and forth afair but you have a plenthora of tools to combat the mirror and other control builds atm so not really sure what the problem seems to be. The new walker is big game, Murder upgrade or no. You also have Jace, Memory Adept as a added threat in that MU on top of your normal configuration of walkers. If you really want to get the one up you could go the Pithing Needle+Ratchet Bomb route as they are both cheap enough that you can sneak them through while also being nigh impossible or downright bad to remove for most UB centric builds.
yeah, that's not my deck, I think the person just made it hastily for a sample/visual. I would run 2 Aetherling and other Fatty/Finisher.
(Still Speaking about UB Control here)
I'd run 2 Opportunity. Probably some Divinations, losing Think Twice really sucks. I hope we get a better, cheaper draw card in the set (instant speed). Then again, I think they're focusing on Scry this time.
Also Gainsay and Dark Betrayal worth a sideboard spot? In any case, UB Control looks like it's an uphill battle post rotation. UW seems a bit better for now with the Revelations, Verdicts, Sphere and Charms.
What does that even mean? Cards are not "fundamentally" good or bad. It all has to do with context.
Whether they are fundamentally good or bad has to do with the number of situations they are good in, as well as how good they are when they are good, and how important/often those situations occur.
I think maindeck lifebane zombies would be amazing. Love the list, heartworks, but I think 4 downfall and 4 far is excessive. I would cut two of one of those and a jace for three lifebane. That list is really, really light on win conditions. Three zombies + two Eatherling sounds better.
Ugh. My kingdom for a creeping tar pit. I doubt there is room for mutavault. That would be solid.
Ugh all your lands CITPT except 4 islands. Sure, you can choose to shock yourself, but against aggro that's death. How do you handle Burning Earth? It seems you're comfortable flipping the coin - I don't think that's a good strategy myself.
You also have cards that need UW, UUW, and BB on consecutive turns. Needless to say more often than not you're going to have trouble casting the cards, and that's not even taking into account you'll be doing so a turn later due to all the CITPT lands. Why not just run either UW or UB?
I Really want to try the new Mythic Gorgon as an alternate finisher. Right now U/B has no real sweeper which could change but until then a 7/9 board sweeper doesn't sound too bad.
I Really want to try the new Mythic Gorgon as an alternate finisher. Right now U/B has no real sweeper which could change but until then a 7/9 board sweeper doesn't sound too bad.
Early draw power. The U/W version runs 4x Azorius charm which U/B doesn't have access to so Quicken is a nice replacement. It also allows you to play sorceries at instant speed so hopefully a nice sweeper get revealed (Damnation please) and you have instant speed sweeper potential
Why is Jace, AoT being included in these roughdraft decks instead of Jace, MA? I'm sort of new to control, but it seems like "mill 10" is worth more than a mini fact or fiction. And Jace, MA's strongest ability costs 0, meaning it doesn't die to Aggro as easily as Jace, AoT does with it's -2 ability. I just don't get it honestly. Can someone explain?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: URJhoira of the GhituUR(Under con.) BMaralen of the MornsongB UBLazav, Dimir MastermindUB Standard: UMono U DevotionU Casual: GPrimordial Hydra JankinessG
Early draw power. The U/W version runs 4x Azorius charm which U/B doesn't have access to so Quicken is a nice replacement. It also allows you to play sorceries at instant speed so hopefully a nice sweeper get revealed (Damnation please) and you have instant speed sweeper potential
its a cantrip, not a draw spell. it does basically nothing int he deck and should be removed.
Why is Jace, AoT being included in these roughdraft decks instead of Jace, MA? I'm sort of new to control, but it seems like "mill 10" is worth more than a mini fact or fiction. And Jace, MA's strongest ability costs 0, meaning it doesn't die to Aggro as easily as Jace, AoT does with it's -2 ability. I just don't get it honestly. Can someone explain?
4 mana vs. 5 mana. what's to get?
AoT is significantly better against opponents that play alot of small creatures too. his +1 ability provides meaningful defense. MA's 0 ability is totally useless until you're ready to win the game with it. the +1 card draw on MA is just much weaker than the -2 on AoT. it comes out a turn later and draws half as many cards.
its a cantrip, not a draw spell. it does basically nothing int he deck and should be removed.
Why wouldn't you want a cantrip? Infact I've seen a number of people asking for a cheap cantrip in Theros. What's wrong with Quicken? What would you replace it with?
Why wouldn't you want a cantrip? Infact I've seen a number of people asking for a cheap cantrip in Theros. What's wrong with Quicken? What would you replace it with?
Ugh, yeah, we're asking for preordain, ponder, etc. not quicken lol.
Ugh, yeah, we're asking for preordain, ponder, etc. not quicken lol.
Tough luck lol. Obviously any of those cards would go straight into the deck but why is Quicken so bad? Especially for a U/B build with no Azorius Charm.
edit: What would you replace it with in a U/B build?
Azorius Charm is not played as a cantrip. It is played as tempo/removal with cycle. A strong early game draw that is not dead lategame.
Quicken, on the other hand, is just a cantrip, unless you're playing with sorceries you want to play at instant speed. Think Twice, on the other hand, nets you two cards, which is why that sees play.
In a post Think Twice world, I still wouldn't run Quicken unless you're chock full of quality sorceries that you absolutely need to play at instant speed. And even then you're relying on a two card combo in control. The point of control should be that each card you draw into nets you some kind of advantage on its own. Quicken on its own is just a cantrip, and combo'd with sorceries is relying on interactions that control should be trying to avoid.
Tough luck lol. Obviously any of those cards would go straight into the deck but why is Quicken so bad? Especially for a U/B build with no Azorius Charm.
Charm is not used strictly for card draw, but for its utility. Quicken's effect is considerably worse than charm's. Also I'm willing to bet post rotation your going to see a lot of Voice of Resurgence. Your opponent will just laugh as you quicken and flash another sorcery.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
YES, WE KNOW THAT IT WILL BE GREAT IN YOUR EDH DECK.
Azorius Charm is not played as a cantrip. It is played as tempo/removal with cycle. A strong early game draw that is not dead lategame.
Quicken, on the other hand, is just a cantrip, unless you're playing with sorceries you want to play at instant speed. Think Twice, on the other hand, nets you two cards, which is why that sees play.
In a post Think Twice world, I still wouldn't run Quicken unless you're chock full of quality sorceries that you absolutely need to play at instant speed. And even then you're relying on a two card combo in control. The point of control should be that each card you draw into nets you some kind of advantage on its own. Quicken on its own is just a cantrip, and combo'd with sorceries is relying on interactions that control should be trying to avoid.
Here's to a Ponder reprint
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Tapout control on the other hand seems much better positioned but that could just be me being biased.
@chili01
4 Aetherling seems way too many and the Keyrune seems out of place. I would suggest some number of Rewinds and to diversify your counters and removal a bit.
OTOH Cavern of Souls leaving means countermagic will get a bit better, even though the cards themselves are nothing to write home about. Similarly there are a lot of instant speed removal available to us, while the permanents available to us are not that good besides Jace and Aetherling of course.
Still the mirror is looking pretty stale at this point. What do you think is better; Lazav, Lili's Reaver, or Nightveil Specter in that MU?
How to play magic, 101:"you draw, you play your land, then you say go"
Regardless I think we can agree that a mix of counters and removal is a step in the right direction as a general rule of thumb.
@Aegraen
Spectre and it really isn't even close
To be more to the point sure it might seem like a back and forth afair but you have a plenthora of tools to combat the mirror and other control builds atm so not really sure what the problem seems to be. The new walker is big game, Murder upgrade or no. You also have Jace, Memory Adept as a added threat in that MU on top of your normal configuration of walkers. If you really want to get the one up you could go the Pithing Needle+Ratchet Bomb route as they are both cheap enough that you can sneak them through while also being nigh impossible or downright bad to remove for most UB centric builds.
(Still Speaking about UB Control here)
I'd run 2 Opportunity. Probably some Divinations, losing Think Twice really sucks. I hope we get a better, cheaper draw card in the set (instant speed). Then again, I think they're focusing on Scry this time.
Also Gainsay and Dark Betrayal worth a sideboard spot? In any case, UB Control looks like it's an uphill battle post rotation. UW seems a bit better for now with the Revelations, Verdicts, Sphere and Charms.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
4x Sphinx's Revelation
4x Far // Away
4x Azorius Charm
4x Hero's Downfall
2x Render Silent
2x Syncopate
2x Essence Scatter
4x Supreme Verdict
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Silence
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Watery Grave
4x Godless Shrine
2x Azorius Guildgate
4x Island
Sideboard still in flux. I'm currently testing everything form Thoughtseize to Notion Thief / Nightveil Spectre to Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver / Jace, Memory Adept for the control mirrors.
Whether they are fundamentally good or bad has to do with the number of situations they are good in, as well as how good they are when they are good, and how important/often those situations occur.
Ugh. My kingdom for a creeping tar pit. I doubt there is room for mutavault. That would be solid.
Ugh all your lands CITPT except 4 islands. Sure, you can choose to shock yourself, but against aggro that's death. How do you handle Burning Earth? It seems you're comfortable flipping the coin - I don't think that's a good strategy myself.
You also have cards that need UW, UUW, and BB on consecutive turns. Needless to say more often than not you're going to have trouble casting the cards, and that's not even taking into account you'll be doing so a turn later due to all the CITPT lands. Why not just run either UW or UB?
1 Stormseeker Dragon
1 Aetherling
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Medomai, the Ageless
Planeswalkers 1
1 Elspeth Sun's Champion
Spells 29
4 Detention Sphere
3 Render Silent
2 Syncopate
1 Essence Scatter
1 Essence Backlash
2 Warleader's Helix
4 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Jet
4 Steam Augery
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Steam Vents
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
6 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Stormseeker Dragon
2 Aetherling
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Rapid Hybridization
1 Elixir of Immortality
4x Omenspeaker
3x Aetherling
Planeswalker
4x Jace,Architect of Thought
Spells
4x Quicken
3x Syncopate
1x Essence Scatter
2x Warped Physique
3x Doom blade
2x Psychic Strike
2x Heroe's Downfall
3x Far // Away
3x Opportunity
4x Watery Grave
4x U/B scryland
2x Dimir Guildgate
9x Island
7x Swamp
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Pithing Needle
4x Negate
2x Essence Scatter
1x Far // Away
1x Doom blade
2x Notion Thief
2x Duress
I Really want to try the new Mythic Gorgon as an alternate finisher. Right now U/B has no real sweeper which could change but until then a 7/9 board sweeper doesn't sound too bad.
why 4x Quicken?
TBD...
Meh, I think I'd rather play a mix of Syncopate and Essence Scatter than jam 4 of these.
Early draw power. The U/W version runs 4x Azorius charm which U/B doesn't have access to so Quicken is a nice replacement. It also allows you to play sorceries at instant speed so hopefully a nice sweeper get revealed (Damnation please) and you have instant speed sweeper potential
URJhoira of the GhituUR(Under con.)
BMaralen of the MornsongB
UBLazav, Dimir MastermindUB
Standard:
UMono U DevotionU
Casual:
GPrimordial Hydra JankinessG
its a cantrip, not a draw spell. it does basically nothing int he deck and should be removed.
4 mana vs. 5 mana. what's to get?
AoT is significantly better against opponents that play alot of small creatures too. his +1 ability provides meaningful defense. MA's 0 ability is totally useless until you're ready to win the game with it. the +1 card draw on MA is just much weaker than the -2 on AoT. it comes out a turn later and draws half as many cards.
Why wouldn't you want a cantrip? Infact I've seen a number of people asking for a cheap cantrip in Theros. What's wrong with Quicken? What would you replace it with?
Ugh, yeah, we're asking for preordain, ponder, etc. not quicken lol.
Tough luck lol. Obviously any of those cards would go straight into the deck but why is Quicken so bad? Especially for a U/B build with no Azorius Charm.
edit: What would you replace it with in a U/B build?
Quicken, on the other hand, is just a cantrip, unless you're playing with sorceries you want to play at instant speed. Think Twice, on the other hand, nets you two cards, which is why that sees play.
In a post Think Twice world, I still wouldn't run Quicken unless you're chock full of quality sorceries that you absolutely need to play at instant speed. And even then you're relying on a two card combo in control. The point of control should be that each card you draw into nets you some kind of advantage on its own. Quicken on its own is just a cantrip, and combo'd with sorceries is relying on interactions that control should be trying to avoid.
Charm is not used strictly for card draw, but for its utility. Quicken's effect is considerably worse than charm's. Also I'm willing to bet post rotation your going to see a lot of Voice of Resurgence. Your opponent will just laugh as you quicken and flash another sorcery.
Here's to a Ponder reprint