I've been working on the Grixis draw-go deck and contributing on there while testing my own UR draw-go list. I think the major advantage Izzet has is the instant speed and playing to that.
This is what I call the Spiral-Ling variant. Basically the deck wins with Psychic Spiral. Steam Augury dumps quite a bit of cards in the graveyard and everytime we cast Spiral the concentration of useful cards increases. Generally you loop spirals until you find an Aetherling and beat them with it or simply mill them with Spiral. This win package is the best one I've tested, all thanks to the people over in the Grixis thread.
So a comment on your Jace vs Steam Augury. In a more tap out style deck Jace is probably better than Steam Augury. But in a draw-go list like mine the card is much better than you give it credit for. You play the card much differently than you do with Fact or Fiction. Steam Augury forces you to be the smart player instead of your opponent. Essentially, you can do things like put Aetherling by itself with Counterspells, Burn, and a land in the other pile and you get the four. If you want the Aetherling to win the game, too bad. You'll just have to keep the tools that will allow you to control the game. Hence the grindy Psychic Spiral plan.
So I like Staticasters more than Anger of the Gods against aggro. Stabilizing behind a wall of 1/3s and 0/3s is solid. Staticasters basically add 1 to the damage your removal spells are doing which is pretty excellent. Once you have two out, aggro is dead and we enter the long game.
Regardless, thanks for the thread! Being able to play Burning Earth in a control deck is pretty sweet methinks.
Why are you playing Thassa? She won't be a creature and the unblockable ability isn't very useful. Is the upkeep scry 1 really that powerful to warrant the inclusion over more answers?
Also I forgot to mention something about Swan Song. For standard, the card is a trap. Your list has nothing to deal effectively with a 2/2 token without spending another card. That is two-for-one-ing yourself. Just play Negate, a spell that counters all of those things and planeswalkers while not giving them a free Wind Drake.
Why are you playing Thassa? She won't be a creature and the unblockable ability isn't very useful. Is the upkeep scry 1 really that powerful to warrant the inclusion over more answers?
Also I forgot to mention something about Swan Song. For standard, the card is a trap. Your list has nothing to deal effectively with a 2/2 token without spending another card. That is two-for-one-ing yourself. Just play Negate, a spell that counters all of those things and planeswalkers while not giving them a free Wind Drake.
Yes Thassa's scry 1 is that powerful. And it synergizes really well with the new chandra so her 0 is actually card draw instead of self mill.
As for swan song I agree that it's a trap in the usual draw-go control decks but it's the perfect counterspell in tap out control because of it's low cost. It doesn't really matter that you need another card because you're going to play Anger of the Gods and Ratchet Bomb anyways. At the very least you can just utilize Ral Zarek and Izzet Staticaster since they're just 2/2s
Yes Thassa's scry 1 is that powerful. And it synergizes really well with the new chandra so her 0 is actually card draw instead of self mill.
As for swan song I agree that it's a trap in the usual draw-go control decks but it's the perfect counterspell in tap out control because of it's low cost. It doesn't really matter that you need another card because you're going to play Anger of the Gods and Ratchet Bomb anyways. At the very least you can just utilize Ral Zarek and Izzet Staticaster since they're just 2/2s
Thassa is horrible, there is no reason to play her, ever. The 3 drop in this deck needs to be AOTG or counter. I've been thinking about a counter-burn deck using the new Chimera, playtesting has been somewhat good but I don't know if it would be T1 material. I'll post a deck list later.
I've been working on the Grixis draw-go deck and contributing on there while testing my own UR draw-go list. I think the major advantage Izzet has is the instant speed and playing to that.
This is what I call the Spiral-Ling variant. Basically the deck wins with Psychic Spiral. Steam Augury dumps quite a bit of cards in the graveyard and everytime we cast Spiral the concentration of useful cards increases. Generally you loop spirals until you find an Aetherling and beat them with it or simply mill them with Spiral. This win package is the best one I've tested, all thanks to the people over in the Grixis thread.
So a comment on your Jace vs Steam Augury. In a more tap out style deck Jace is probably better than Steam Augury. But in a draw-go list like mine the card is much better than you give it credit for. You play the card much differently than you do with Fact or Fiction. Steam Augury forces you to be the smart player instead of your opponent. Essentially, you can do things like put Aetherling by itself with Counterspells, Burn, and a land in the other pile and you get the four. If you want the Aetherling to win the game, too bad. You'll just have to keep the tools that will allow you to control the game. Hence the grindy Psychic Spiral plan.
So I like Staticasters more than Anger of the Gods against aggro. Stabilizing behind a wall of 1/3s and 0/3s is solid. Staticasters basically add 1 to the damage your removal spells are doing which is pretty excellent. Once you have two out, aggro is dead and we enter the long game.
Regardless, thanks for the thread! Being able to play Burning Earth in a control deck is pretty sweet methinks.
Like the deck but you should use Thoughtflare instead of inspiration
Like the deck but you should use Thoughtflare instead of inspiration
Nope. Inspiration is awesome and the list should have four. Maybe in addition like the other guy said.
I've been testing the list and it is infernally slow. Slower than Drownyard Esper from last standard slow. I think some more draw spells might speed it up. I love the aggro match up though. This deck is phenomenal against all of the aggro decks I've tested against.
Just a rough draft as I am at work, but I could see it being decent. Prpbably throw ratchet bomb in the SB I just dont see any token based decks worth it. And young being in red half the time they will only get a few tokens before young get taken out snd I dont see ratchet being MD material for 1 guy...
Just a rough draft as I am at work, but I could see it being decent. Prpbably throw ratchet bomb in the SB I just dont see any token based decks worth it. And young being in red half the time they will only get a few tokens before young get taken out snd I dont see ratchet being MD material for 1 guy...
If you're going to play a 6-drop then why not just play more AEtherling? I don't get how Niv-mizzet is any better here, he'll just die to whatever removal they didn't use.
The idea is to try and use Steam Augury and Thoughtflare to fuel your graveyard for Chimera and in the meanwhile you can Counter-burn whatever they try to do. As I mentioned before it's been okay in testing but definitely needs tweaking. I don't like Turn // Burn but it's there to deal with heavy creatures. AEtherling is a backup.
If you're going to play a 6-drop then why not just play more AEtherling? I don't get how Niv-mizzet is any better here, he'll just die to whatever removal they didn't use.
The idea is to try and use Steam Augury and Thoughtflare to fuel your graveyard for Chimera and in the meanwhile you can Counter-burn whatever they try to do. As I mentioned before it's been okay in testing but definitely needs tweaking. I don't like Turn // Burn but it's there to deal with heavy creatures. AEtherling is a backup.
Your first comment was amusing considering you seem very focused on a weaker creature; Spellheart Chimera dies to many things with that low Toughness 3. I only think he's worth wile cause of his low CMC but needs play testing.
Why don't you like Turn // Burn? I'm actually having a hard time deciding on using that over Magma Jet. Jet is a great card an all, but Burn does and equal amount of damage and late game can deal with anything. I feel like it might be better then the Jet.
What does anyone think of Prognostic Sphinx? Its not an Aetherling but lands two turn earlier. Makes every card in hand the better half of free Mizzium Skin. Its T5 beats most if not all creature and removal.
To be honest the ONLY reason why I second guess the Sphinx is its low power 3, but it might be worth while considering Scry 3 is huge!
Playing this along with Chandra's Phoenix to pitch it to is nice. Loosing the Phoenix to Steam Augury, Izzet Charm, and Thoughtflare is eventually card advantage as well.
If you're going to play a 6-drop then why not just play more AEtherling? I don't get how Niv-mizzet is any better here, he'll just die to whatever removal they didn't use.
The idea is to try and use Steam Augury and Thoughtflare to fuel your graveyard for Chimera and in the meanwhile you can Counter-burn whatever they try to do. As I mentioned before it's been okay in testing but definitely needs tweaking. I don't like Turn // Burn but it's there to deal with heavy creatures. AEtherling is a backup.
Well I could run 2 aetherlings and 1 draco idk woulf have to let testing decide. But either way wither I run 1 or 2 them destroying it is assuming ill let them. In most cases for control you wouldnt drop your game ending creature till you ran them out of card or you have plenty In your hand to protect it
Running 10 counters and about 15 ways to kill creatures with plenty of card draw including a eot mana dump out of draco to draw more cards i dont think they would have a way to deal with it at that point.
Of course this is assuming everything goes to plan, but assuming your a fellow control playee you should know we wouldny cast him till we had board control and able to protect him.
So the more obvious question would be isnt aetherling more effecient and easier to protect once he is on board. The answer probably yes but I dont think we should overlook draco either.
Now I dont like steam augury I think opportunity is way better and I have considered thoughtflare im just not about it
@magicman Spellheart Chimera is no good in any of the control variants. It's a tempo card, not a control card. I've considered Jace. I want to try him in place of the Aetherlings for a little while.
Spiral is an excellent win condition in the draw-go style Izzet control. In tap out (the kind of deck that plays Jace, AoT and Ral Zarek), Psychic Spiral is very bad.
Played a few games on 'trice with this tonight, it's testing fairly well so far. Thoughts on the list?
Feels like one Aetherling isn't enough finisher, along with Sting's comments. I'd say maindeck Essence Scatter is a meta call.
I like Opportunity in there. Seriously underrated compared to Steam Augury, but at the same time I don't think the deck would exist without the latter.
Prognostic Sphinx should also appear somewhere in the 75. Greatly speeds up victories against decks that can't handle it, in my experience.
Steam Augury is terrible at finding you cards you actually need. Opportunity is one mana too expensive to cast where this deck wants to be casting it. Sure, steam Augury is generally better CA than thoughtflare, but what does that matter when the Turn//Burn you needed to answer their Demon is sent to your graveyard? Sometimes getting 4 assorted cards is just flat out worse than getting the one you actually wanted.
I'll grant that Augury was performing somewhat acceptably in testing, but the amount of times I still got screwed over is not where I want to be for a big event.
Augury is a mixed bag. If you're looking for a specific answer or you'll die, it's probably not the best (though sometimes you hit two answers and can split them so you'll get one either way), what it does do is dig through your deck and provide general CA, and in some cases allows you to play mental games with your opponent.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.”
― Oscar Levant
With only 5 sorceries, the Quickens are used more for just cantrips.
Preliminary thoughts before I actually test this?
According to my experience, in game 2. Slaughter Games finish you off at once naming Aetherling and you can't do anything about it Witchbane Orb isn't around anymore. Then proceeds naming your Jace 3.0
I thought watching at PT Theros, that Izzet Control might actually be a decent metagame choice.
We get to utilize Turn/Burn very well in the metagame; you can hit Aggro weenies with it, you can Turn a Master of Waves (killing all the elementals. sadly you cant kill the master of waves), or even kill a Polukrunos in response to activation or an Obzedat.
We also have access to countermagic and some good finishers.
Although I think the Frostburn Weirds are usually the only target for their removal (instead of making all their removal dead in hand), we really need a way to remove enemy planeswalkers beside direct damage once they hit the board. The Weird also survives our own Anger of the Gods and provides reasonable blocking against most red guys.
I choose to run a little light on counterspells as I think this deck has more to fear from early aggression, although I can certainly see someone going 1 or 2 burnspells down for another counter.
The sideboard makes the deck more focussed. The Nivmagus Elementals are an experiment, I think they work pretty well against control (they can't counter it and as long as you protect it and grow it once or twice, it can win you the game by itself).
Haven't tested it yet (and don't really have the time to unfortunately), so I will take this or close to this (maybe, just maybe, I will add a drop of white with Assemble the legion and some detention spheres) to the game day.
I started brewing UR and I figured I'd post my decklist.
Basically the idea of my deck is to deal with a few of their more important things, then turbo out a win with evasive creatures.
Im not sold on whether or not this deck needs to be tapout control, or draw-go control, or maybe somewhere in between. There is some awkwardness in quite possibly the best card for the deck anger of the gods, and instants in general. I almost want to be full tap out control for this reason, but I'm testing a mix of both styles currently. Does anyone else have some insight into this dilemma?
Sideboard in development, but will likely include:
3-4 Gainsay for the amazingly popular mono blue devotion deck.
X Flames of the Firebrand for RDW and mono blue devotion, and probably other decks, too.
1 Magma Jet for fast aggro matchups.
X Negate for control matchups.
and
X Ratchet bomb for pesky permanents.
I feel like Warden of Evos Isle might have potential. A turn four 5 drop seems super juicy, especially when you have really good ones like stormbreath dragon and prognostic sphinx. It also blocks master of waves, which can be relevant. Just being a 2/2 that flys over to attack planeswalkers can be relevant, too.
I think its wrong to undervalue prognostic sphinx. This card is super amazing. Yea, it doesnt draw you cards, but scry 3 is INCREDIBLY powerful. Discarding a random card you dont need is still downside, but if you are sculpting your turns to exactly how you need them to be, all while keeping pressure on your opponent, you will likely be favored to win. Sphinx also blocks master of waves as well.
Im not sold on steam augury yet. That being said, I think I'd rather dip into more threats and push more towards an aggro control deck (more than it already is) before I went up the curve higher into thoughtflare or opportunity. Every time I've cast it, I really havent even needed it to resolve at all. The extra cards were just upside. I need to test a lot more before I rule it out on the grounds of 'what if you only get 1 answer to what you need to deal with, and they put it in the GY'. I mean.. even if that is the case, making the piles 4-1 will net you +3 cards. I hope to have MANY answers to the threats I need, and not require a 4 (or more) mana draw spell to dig to find what I need.
Any questions / comments / suggestions would be greatly appreciated
I thought watching at PT Theros, that Izzet Control might actually be a decent metagame choice.
We get to utilize Turn/Burn very well in the metagame; you can hit Aggro weenies with it, you can Turn a Master of Waves (killing all the elementals. sadly you cant kill the master of waves), or even kill a Polukrunos in response to activation or an Obzedat.
We also have access to countermagic and some good finishers.
Although I think the Frostburn Weirds are usually the only target for their removal (instead of making all their removal dead in hand), we really need a way to remove enemy planeswalkers beside direct damage once they hit the board. The Weird also survives our own Anger of the Gods and provides reasonable blocking against most red guys.
I choose to run a little light on counterspells as I think this deck has more to fear from early aggression, although I can certainly see someone going 1 or 2 burnspells down for another counter.
The sideboard makes the deck more focussed. The Nivmagus Elementals are an experiment, I think they work pretty well against control (they can't counter it and as long as you protect it and grow it once or twice, it can win you the game by itself).
Haven't tested it yet (and don't really have the time to unfortunately), so I will take this or close to this (maybe, just maybe, I will add a drop of white with Assemble the legion and some detention spheres) to the game day.
Thoughts?
I really like this list, and plan on brewing something similar. Specific numbers aside, this is generally the direction I plan on going. Not sure about the Dragon, however. I see that he's a great win-con, but he's can't protect himself.
psychic spiral is....interesting. I could see it doing work in a control matchup, and if you aren't fighting over their life total life gain isn't as hardcore against you.
What about a direct burn strategy? Things like Essence Backlash and such could do a lot of work against decks like Mono-Black Devotion. Skullcrack in the board is also tech.
My results have actually posted well and oddly enough I dominate Esper which is all over the place at my shop. And the amount of removal and sweepers really stalls them with or without Jace. I love this deck as izzet was the first deck I ever played and it has only seemed to get better. the Phoenix is amazing when each turn late game you can burn to the face and then lay down a hasted flier over the top, and Mr. Ling is obviously what we all think he is.
I like the list but i feel it a bit light on counter.
Probably is because of my playstyle, but i prefer play with more counter and more draw power.
Your deck is really good against aggro, have you test it against control?or against mono-devotion decks?
On planeswalker: the most common response are bounce + counter (but you 2-for-1 yourself), burn, combat damage or pithing needle.
I added a B splash gaining access to dreadbore/slaughter games against planewalker and gaining also doomblade/rakdos's return against creature/control decks
On Nivmagus Elemental: How do you feel with it? i'm interested because G2-G3 control side out some removal and this early drop can be an added value on counterwar and board control
On prognostic sphinx: this can be a good addiction, the discard-> hexproof ability can be really good because you don't use mana for it and you discard the useless card in hand....
On steam augury: is really difficult sometimes put the right card in the right pile and so force opponent to give us what we want, but is really really a great card (when it works:D)
Instead, if you don't like it, you can play inspiration less risk/less reward...
In every case gain Card Advantage is a fundamental role in Control decks, you can't 1-for-1 every single turn.... sphinx's revelation is a staple in every UW based control, steam augury (alongside other CA engine if necessary) can be a fine replacement (not good as sphinx's revelation, but already we have only this....)
On Niv-mizzet, Dracogenius: Before the Aetherling spoiler i tested this card and it fit the 6 drop quite well in my Grixis deck. Aetherling and prognostic sphinx are better because they can easily dodge opponent's removal, but if you can untap with Niv-mizzet, Dracogenius you can start gaining a huge Card Advantage or acting like a pseudo-removal EOT.
If opponent haven't a early reply, Niv-mizzet, Dracogenius can be a lethal card.
On burn strategy/Essence Backlash/Skullcrack:
I don't like the pure counter/burn strategy because i don't think we already have all the necessary cards.
In that case is necessary a complete different approach, a lower mana curve e different selection of cards (chandra's phoenix? guttersnipe?)
I think Essence Backlash is a bit high on cmc because if i choose it like a counter i can already choose essence scatter and if i choose it like a burn i can't define the amount of damage... Skullcrack i suppose can be a SB card against UW revelation decks, but i still prefer adding more counter like dispel/negate (usually i use negate because catch also planeswalker, artifact, enchantment and sorcery for 1 more) Skullcrack negate the lifegain + 3 damage, a counter negate the lifegain AND the Card Advantage. in my opinion this is far better because sometimes those decks can chain revelations or finding win-con.
I agree on your thoughts on the burn strategy...we are missing a couple of cards to make that work well. I also am an advocate of playing this as close to creatureless as possible if you forsee plenty of control/midrange builds to limit their live cards. One huge advantage to burn as removal though is that our dead cards are heavily limited, since most still go to the face as a worst case scenario.
I also think this list has an advantage of going nearly all instants...some of the Esper lists tended to be more sorcery speed. For that reason I'm actively using Opportunity over Jace, Architect of Thought as others have mentioned. However, the white splash for Sphinx's Revelation will likely prove superior.
Here's my decklist:
4 Izzet Staticaster
1 Aetherling
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
2 Turn // Burn
3 Izzet Charm
2 Syncopate
4 Dissolve
2 Counterflux
4 Steam Augury
3 Inspiration
2 Psychic Spiral
4 Steam Vents
3 Izzet Guildgate
8 Island
6 Mountain
This is what I call the Spiral-Ling variant. Basically the deck wins with Psychic Spiral. Steam Augury dumps quite a bit of cards in the graveyard and everytime we cast Spiral the concentration of useful cards increases. Generally you loop spirals until you find an Aetherling and beat them with it or simply mill them with Spiral. This win package is the best one I've tested, all thanks to the people over in the Grixis thread.
So a comment on your Jace vs Steam Augury. In a more tap out style deck Jace is probably better than Steam Augury. But in a draw-go list like mine the card is much better than you give it credit for. You play the card much differently than you do with Fact or Fiction. Steam Augury forces you to be the smart player instead of your opponent. Essentially, you can do things like put Aetherling by itself with Counterspells, Burn, and a land in the other pile and you get the four. If you want the Aetherling to win the game, too bad. You'll just have to keep the tools that will allow you to control the game. Hence the grindy Psychic Spiral plan.
So I like Staticasters more than Anger of the Gods against aggro. Stabilizing behind a wall of 1/3s and 0/3s is solid. Staticasters basically add 1 to the damage your removal spells are doing which is pretty excellent. Once you have two out, aggro is dead and we enter the long game.
Regardless, thanks for the thread! Being able to play Burning Earth in a control deck is pretty sweet methinks.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
4 Omenspeaker
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Prognastic Sphinx
1 Aetherling
Spells:
2 Syncopate
4 Magma Jet
1 Opportunity
3 Steam Augury
4 Swan Song
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Turn/Burn
3 Ratchet Bomb
Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Ral Zarek
Lands:
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
8 Island
8 Mountain
Why are you playing Thassa? She won't be a creature and the unblockable ability isn't very useful. Is the upkeep scry 1 really that powerful to warrant the inclusion over more answers?
Also I forgot to mention something about Swan Song. For standard, the card is a trap. Your list has nothing to deal effectively with a 2/2 token without spending another card. That is two-for-one-ing yourself. Just play Negate, a spell that counters all of those things and planeswalkers while not giving them a free Wind Drake.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
Yes Thassa's scry 1 is that powerful. And it synergizes really well with the new chandra so her 0 is actually card draw instead of self mill.
As for swan song I agree that it's a trap in the usual draw-go control decks but it's the perfect counterspell in tap out control because of it's low cost. It doesn't really matter that you need another card because you're going to play Anger of the Gods and Ratchet Bomb anyways. At the very least you can just utilize Ral Zarek and Izzet Staticaster since they're just 2/2s
Thassa is horrible, there is no reason to play her, ever. The 3 drop in this deck needs to be AOTG or counter. I've been thinking about a counter-burn deck using the new Chimera, playtesting has been somewhat good but I don't know if it would be T1 material. I'll post a deck list later.
Like the deck but you should use Thoughtflare instead of inspiration
Replacing your cheaper draw package for a more expensive one simply for synergy sake seems like a terrible idea.
Nope. Inspiration is awesome and the list should have four. Maybe in addition like the other guy said.
I've been testing the list and it is infernally slow. Slower than Drownyard Esper from last standard slow. I think some more draw spells might speed it up. I love the aggro match up though. This deck is phenomenal against all of the aggro decks I've tested against.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
1 aetherling
3 jace architect of thought
2 ral zarek
2 mizzium mortars
2 anger of the gods
4 magma jet
2 opportunity
4 think twice
3 turn // burn
2 counterflux
3 syncopate
2 izzet charm
4 dissolve
4 guildgates
8 islands
8 mountains
Just a rough draft as I am at work, but I could see it being decent. Prpbably throw ratchet bomb in the SB I just dont see any token based decks worth it. And young being in red half the time they will only get a few tokens before young get taken out snd I dont see ratchet being MD material for 1 guy...
Modern:
BRG DEMIGOD Jund GRB
UB TEZZ Control BU
If you're going to play a 6-drop then why not just play more AEtherling? I don't get how Niv-mizzet is any better here, he'll just die to whatever removal they didn't use.
My list looks like this:
4 Spellheart Chimera
1 AEtherling
[Sorceries]
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Anger of the Gods
[Instants]
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Essence Scatter
3 Dissolve
3 Syncopate
3 Turn // Burn
2 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
4 Steam Augury
3 Thoughtflare
4 Steamvents
2 Izzet Guildgates
9 Islands
7 Mountains
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Izzet Staticaster
1 Annul
4 Negate
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Anger of the Gods
The idea is to try and use Steam Augury and Thoughtflare to fuel your graveyard for Chimera and in the meanwhile you can Counter-burn whatever they try to do. As I mentioned before it's been okay in testing but definitely needs tweaking. I don't like Turn // Burn but it's there to deal with heavy creatures. AEtherling is a backup.
Your first comment was amusing considering you seem very focused on a weaker creature; Spellheart Chimera dies to many things with that low Toughness 3. I only think he's worth wile cause of his low CMC but needs play testing.
Why don't you like Turn // Burn? I'm actually having a hard time deciding on using that over Magma Jet. Jet is a great card an all, but Burn does and equal amount of damage and late game can deal with anything. I feel like it might be better then the Jet.
What does anyone think of Prognostic Sphinx? Its not an Aetherling but lands two turn earlier. Makes every card in hand the better half of free Mizzium Skin. Its T5 beats most if not all creature and removal.
To be honest the ONLY reason why I second guess the Sphinx is its low power 3, but it might be worth while considering Scry 3 is huge!
Playing this along with Chandra's Phoenix to pitch it to is nice. Loosing the Phoenix to Steam Augury, Izzet Charm, and Thoughtflare is eventually card advantage as well.
Thoughts?
Well I could run 2 aetherlings and 1 draco idk woulf have to let testing decide. But either way wither I run 1 or 2 them destroying it is assuming ill let them. In most cases for control you wouldnt drop your game ending creature till you ran them out of card or you have plenty In your hand to protect it
Running 10 counters and about 15 ways to kill creatures with plenty of card draw including a eot mana dump out of draco to draw more cards i dont think they would have a way to deal with it at that point.
Of course this is assuming everything goes to plan, but assuming your a fellow control playee you should know we wouldny cast him till we had board control and able to protect him.
So the more obvious question would be isnt aetherling more effecient and easier to protect once he is on board. The answer probably yes but I dont think we should overlook draco either.
Now I dont like steam augury I think opportunity is way better and I have considered thoughtflare im just not about it
Modern:
BRG DEMIGOD Jund GRB
UB TEZZ Control BU
Spiral is an excellent win condition in the draw-go style Izzet control. In tap out (the kind of deck that plays Jace, AoT and Ral Zarek), Psychic Spiral is very bad.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
Played a few games on 'trice with this tonight, it's testing fairly well so far. Thoughts on the list?
Feels like one Aetherling isn't enough finisher, along with Sting's comments. I'd say maindeck Essence Scatter is a meta call.
I like Opportunity in there. Seriously underrated compared to Steam Augury, but at the same time I don't think the deck would exist without the latter.
Prognostic Sphinx should also appear somewhere in the 75. Greatly speeds up victories against decks that can't handle it, in my experience.
U Twinsanity
WUBRG Reaper King
UBG Dredge
UR Howling Owl
GBU Thief of Time
I've also since added Stormbreath Dragon, who has been a house at closing out games and taking down planeswalkers.
I'll grant that Augury was performing somewhat acceptably in testing, but the amount of times I still got screwed over is not where I want to be for a big event.
― Oscar Levant
-Decks Testing-
RockstarsBG
Deck | Thread
1 Aetherling
Instant(28)
4 Dissolve
2 Aetherize
3 Essence Scatter
2 Izzet Charm
3 Lightning Strike
2 Psychic Spiral
4 Quicken
4 Steam Augury
3 Syncopate
1 Turn // Burn
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
Land(26)
4 Steam Vents
2 Izzet Guildgate
9 Mountain
11 Island
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Turn // Burn
1 Essence scatter
2 Negate
2 Counterflux
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Cyclonic Rift
With only 5 sorceries, the Quickens are used more for just cantrips.
Preliminary thoughts before I actually test this?
― Oscar Levant
-Decks Testing-
RockstarsBG
Deck | Thread
According to my experience, in game 2. Slaughter Games finish you off at once naming Aetherling and you can't do anything about it Witchbane Orb isn't around anymore. Then proceeds naming your Jace 3.0
We get to utilize Turn/Burn very well in the metagame; you can hit Aggro weenies with it, you can Turn a Master of Waves (killing all the elementals. sadly you cant kill the master of waves), or even kill a Polukrunos in response to activation or an Obzedat.
We also have access to countermagic and some good finishers.
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Aetherling
1 Niv-mizzet, Dracogenius
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Board control
4 Turn // Burn
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Magma Jet
1 Lightning Strike
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Essence Scatter
2 Dissolve
Rest
2 Izzet Charm
1 Psychic Spiral
2 Thoughtflare
Land
4 Steam Vents
2 Izzet Guildgate
10 Island
9 Mountain
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Negate
1 Counterflux
2 Pithing Needle
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Psychic Spiral
3 Nivmagus Elemental
Although I think the Frostburn Weirds are usually the only target for their removal (instead of making all their removal dead in hand), we really need a way to remove enemy planeswalkers beside direct damage once they hit the board. The Weird also survives our own Anger of the Gods and provides reasonable blocking against most red guys.
I choose to run a little light on counterspells as I think this deck has more to fear from early aggression, although I can certainly see someone going 1 or 2 burnspells down for another counter.
The sideboard makes the deck more focussed. The Nivmagus Elementals are an experiment, I think they work pretty well against control (they can't counter it and as long as you protect it and grow it once or twice, it can win you the game by itself).
Haven't tested it yet (and don't really have the time to unfortunately), so I will take this or close to this (maybe, just maybe, I will add a drop of white with Assemble the legion and some detention spheres) to the game day.
Thoughts?
This great banner was made by Topher
Basically the idea of my deck is to deal with a few of their more important things, then turbo out a win with evasive creatures.
Im not sold on whether or not this deck needs to be tapout control, or draw-go control, or maybe somewhere in between. There is some awkwardness in quite possibly the best card for the deck anger of the gods, and instants in general. I almost want to be full tap out control for this reason, but I'm testing a mix of both styles currently. Does anyone else have some insight into this dilemma?
Anyways, here is my decklist:
4 Warden of Evos Isle
4 Prognostic Sphinx
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ral Zarek
Sorceries (6)
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Magma Jet
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Steam Augury
3 Essence Scatter
3 Turn / Burn
4 Mutavault
4 Steam Vents
1 Izzet Guildgate
7 Island
10 Mountain
3-4 Gainsay for the amazingly popular mono blue devotion deck.
X Flames of the Firebrand for RDW and mono blue devotion, and probably other decks, too.
1 Magma Jet for fast aggro matchups.
X Negate for control matchups.
and
X Ratchet bomb for pesky permanents.
I feel like Warden of Evos Isle might have potential. A turn four 5 drop seems super juicy, especially when you have really good ones like stormbreath dragon and prognostic sphinx. It also blocks master of waves, which can be relevant. Just being a 2/2 that flys over to attack planeswalkers can be relevant, too.
I think its wrong to undervalue prognostic sphinx. This card is super amazing. Yea, it doesnt draw you cards, but scry 3 is INCREDIBLY powerful. Discarding a random card you dont need is still downside, but if you are sculpting your turns to exactly how you need them to be, all while keeping pressure on your opponent, you will likely be favored to win. Sphinx also blocks master of waves as well.
Im not sold on steam augury yet. That being said, I think I'd rather dip into more threats and push more towards an aggro control deck (more than it already is) before I went up the curve higher into thoughtflare or opportunity. Every time I've cast it, I really havent even needed it to resolve at all. The extra cards were just upside. I need to test a lot more before I rule it out on the grounds of 'what if you only get 1 answer to what you need to deal with, and they put it in the GY'. I mean.. even if that is the case, making the piles 4-1 will net you +3 cards. I hope to have MANY answers to the threats I need, and not require a 4 (or more) mana draw spell to dig to find what I need.
Any questions / comments / suggestions would be greatly appreciated
I really like this list, and plan on brewing something similar. Specific numbers aside, this is generally the direction I plan on going. Not sure about the Dragon, however. I see that he's a great win-con, but he's can't protect himself.
psychic spiral is....interesting. I could see it doing work in a control matchup, and if you aren't fighting over their life total life gain isn't as hardcore against you.
What about a direct burn strategy? Things like Essence Backlash and such could do a lot of work against decks like Mono-Black Devotion. Skullcrack in the board is also tech.
Modern: Merfolk
Commander:Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Standard: Rabble/Dash Red
4 Steam Vents
2 Izzet Guildgate
10 Mountain
6 Island
Creatures: 8
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Spellheart Chimera
2 Anger of the God
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Dissolve
3 Turn // Burn
3 Syncopate
2 Cyclonic Rift
1 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Steam Augury
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Ral Zarek
My results have actually posted well and oddly enough I dominate Esper which is all over the place at my shop. And the amount of removal and sweepers really stalls them with or without Jace. I love this deck as izzet was the first deck I ever played and it has only seemed to get better. the Phoenix is amazing when each turn late game you can burn to the face and then lay down a hasted flier over the top, and Mr. Ling is obviously what we all think he is.
I agree on your thoughts on the burn strategy...we are missing a couple of cards to make that work well. I also am an advocate of playing this as close to creatureless as possible if you forsee plenty of control/midrange builds to limit their live cards. One huge advantage to burn as removal though is that our dead cards are heavily limited, since most still go to the face as a worst case scenario.
I also think this list has an advantage of going nearly all instants...some of the Esper lists tended to be more sorcery speed. For that reason I'm actively using Opportunity over Jace, Architect of Thought as others have mentioned. However, the white splash for Sphinx's Revelation will likely prove superior.
Edit: Here is my current list.
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
8 island
7 Mountain
3 Cyclonic Rift
4 Dissolve
3 Syncopate
3 Izzet Charm
4 Turn // Burn
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Magma Jet
3 Lightning Strike
4 Steam Augury
3 Opportunity
Modern: Merfolk
Commander:Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Standard: Rabble/Dash Red