IMO, the role of Gaze of Granite in Mono-B(g) Devotion is removal for cards <= cmc 2 en masse. Aside from Pack Rat, what is the permanent we play for cmc2 or less? Nothing. However, for the other major decks, CMC 0-2 are huge.
Mono-R Aggro? Most of their deck is CMC 1-2. Being able to wipe their board before Fanatic of Mogis is kinda big.
Mono-U? Most of their early devotion and threats are CMC 0-2 (Cloudfin Raptop, Judge's Familiar, Frostburn Weird, Omen Speaker, Master tokens, Tidebinder Mage.)
Gr Devotion? Ramp... Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, Burning Tree Emissary, Scavenging Ooze.
In the mirror, it hits Rats, which is huge if we didn't open with Rat in hand, or manage to stick it.
Against Tier 1.5-2 aggro decks like GW Aggro, Wr Aggro, and so on, it just devastates them since most of their action is also 0-2.
Against Control, the card is not good. I would not want it there, while I would want all of my Duress and Abrupt Decay.
Maybe it is a sideboard play and not main. I'm fine with that, but there are a lot of matches where it is really strong and it fills a very definite role.
For those people monkeying with the removal, remember that Ultimate Price hits mono-colored, not colorless and Abrupt Decay can't destroy lands, aka Mutavault. We need some Doom Blade for that, if for nothing else.
Additional thought on Putrefy: turns off regeneration.
I keep hearing that we are favored vs control, but i would majorly disagree. Why do some of you think that we are? Every card in esper is either a direct counter to our threats or a threat we need to kill. They play 6+ planes walkers, so we cant kill them all, and easily remove/counter all our creatures. I can hardly get any permanents on the board because our decks run slow enough for them to completely set up. I barely won a game the other day even after 2 Thoughtseizes and 2 Duresses, he still had plenty of chances to top deck answers while i prayed he didnt.
I think esper is my toughest matchup.
They can kill us with ashiok or aetherling and that is it. and underworld connections is actually better than revelations in the matcup.
We just outgrind control and play for the late game. The biggest weakness is that we do have alot of irrelevant removal game 1. However 4 md hero's downfall is annoying for them.
For everyone talking about splashes, if you don't want to play a color with scrylands add red. It gives you cheap removal for rdws and it gives you slaughtergames to crush the mirror.
I give up. When you're talking about Marauder being used as a defensive card, there's no reason for this debate to continue.
The simple fact is you're not going to outrace absolutely everybody all the time. RDW is generally faster because it has burn for reach. Sometimes Green will stick a couple early mana dorks and drop fat T3-T5, White will splooge one-drops and swing at you with 3/3 Boros Elites on T3. In such cases you have to assume the role of the "control" player and slow the game down, especially on the draw because an aggro opponent on the play, with a decent hand, will always be faster.
I think the main thing that should be emphasized with splashes at this point, is that they aren't necessary. Mono-Black Devotion is the deck to beat. We don't have to change anything at this point. Once the meta shifts and we can see the changes, we can start to make choices towards certain colors.
If I were to run this deck, I think I'd like some form of golgari devotion. Golgari charm and abrupt decay are what I'd splash for. With fade into antiquity maybe in the side as well.
Went 1-3 at FNM
Winning first game 2-0 against a bad deck than lost the next 3 rounds 1-2 each against RDW, GW Aggro and Jund.
But the thing is I lost every game because I had to mulligan at least 1-2 times and then still couldn't find my 4th land drop.
It was frustrating beyond belief, I was sure I had the best deck at the FNM, I just couldn't get a good draw to save my life. I lasted 10 rounds against RDW in both my losses but never could get to the 4th land drop.
Despite 25 lands I often ended up with just 1 land in hand or 2 Mutavaults.
It's so frustrating how random Magic can be at times.
The very same happaned to me at my LGS wednesday, it's completely weird how this deck gets mana screwed out of nowhere.
BTW, some pros have been making articles about how to beat Mono B Devotion and i think we can start assuming which are our deck's weaknesses and how to cover them up.
I heard on the SCG stream them talking about one of the pros, Gerry T maybe?, using prophetic prism in the deck to reliably cast Nightveil Specter because lets face it, having 2 swamp and a nykthos or mutivault and not being able to cast Specter sometimes sucks. Also a good idea for casting the spells exiled by Specter
I heard on the SCG stream them talking about one of the pros, Gerry T maybe?, using prophetic prism in the deck to reliably cast Nightveil Specter because lets face it, having 2 swamp and a nykthos or mutivault and not being able to cast Specter sometimes sucks. Also a good idea for casting the spells exiled by Specter
I agree with the idea, but feel like running a cantrip mana fixer on turn 2 might not fit the deck when a lot of the time we need to be using turn 2 removal.
Went 3-1 on rounds today and lost the final, all my loses were to mana screw and I'm seriously considering dropping the Mutavaults. There wasn't a single time it added to the game, all times I could use it either for attack or deffense I was already winning, or didn't because I wouldn't loose anyway. However it did prevent me from winning 4 games I would have been perfectly able to win if those Mutas were swamps.
On a related note to today's tournament, a list much like the Bu posted above went 0-4 on rounds loosing to everyone (myself, MGD, MRD and azorius).
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I haven't tried it but I've also given consideration to Prophetic Prism. I don't think it's very necessary for casting Specter itself -- since dropping to three Nykthos I've had no problem hitting T3 :symb::symb::symb: and I'm also running Dark Prophecy -- but it would be nice for casting off-color cards a swinging Specter grabs. Relying on hitting enemy lands to do that doesn't work very well, I've found.
I keep hearing that we are favored vs control, but i would majorly disagree. Why do some of you think that we are? Every card in esper is either a direct counter to our threats or a threat we need to kill. They play 6+ planes walkers, so we cant kill them all, and easily remove/counter all our creatures. I can hardly get any permanents on the board because our decks run slow enough for them to completely set up. I barely won a game the other day even after 2 Thoughtseizes and 2 Duresses, he still had plenty of chances to top deck answers while i prayed he didnt.
I think esper is my toughest matchup.
I feel like UWR/BWR put up some sort of fight against me, UW and UWB (Esper) are jokes. Our decks are different though and UB(W) is traditionally top dog when it comes to control mirrors, so understandable if you're playing a slower list. But Black has the CA engine(s) (Connections, Prophecy for me) to keep up with the draw power in blue-based control. Discard effectively allows you to force a threat through counters or take out their answer to whatever it is. It should at least be even-ish.
Well, if you're going to ask, you should probably have a sideboard to move things around! If you wanted help with one, though, there are a few good things to have in the side.
Lifebane Zombie is excellent against any Green list (like GW aggro or R/G stuff), I run three in SB and swap with Nightveil Specter.
Erebos, God of the Dead is a great agains other MBC decks and BW Midrange mostly, I have one each in MB and SB, you could swap out a DD or Reaper.
Pithing Needle hoses down planeswalkers, AEtherling and the unblockable ability of Thassa, and a few other cards too, very cheaply. Take out some removal for it, I run two in SB.
Duress is a powerful counterpart to Thoughtseize against control and other noncreature-heavy decks, have two or three in SB and swap it with Doom Blade or other creature-only removal (as it's pretty dead against control).
As you're splashing Green, Gaze of Granite is a nice sweeper. It can hit our stuff too, but it's been brought up that it works best against decks that rely on one-and-two drop permanents (as we only have one in Pack Rat). Fade into Antiquity and Golgari Charm can also find uses, the former killing gods (and Erebos is very dangerous against us), and the latter able to kill any non-God enchantment, save your guys from a Supreme Verdict or sweep Master of Waves and his tokens away.
Basically, with the help of a little Green, we have a lot of SB options that help us cover up our weaknesses.
I had an alright night. My deck had 4 Lifebane Zombies in the main and 2 Pharika's Cure in the main, anticipating GW and RDW every round like the last few weeks have been. I played Control decks every round tonight. Guess that's how magic works sometimes. I didn't make any serious misplays, maybe I thoughtseized incorrectly once or twice but I'm still not sure.
One game I lost to Assemble the Legion. I had Thoughtseized two from his hand in that game, and then he drew a third and cast it. I won the round against him.
I beat both of the UW control decks I played. Crushed them into the ground except for one game that was very close but I got very lucky when the UW player misplayed his Aetherling.
The decks that I lost to were Esper Control and MUD. Against Esper, I won the first game very easily, I was drawing what I needed to and it was great. Game two, I was drawing alright, but the Esper player was just getting Dspheres exactly when he needed them and I couldn't keep up. Stole a Merchant with Ashiok for the win. Game three, same thing. He played 4 Dspheres and I couldn't get any of my Ratchet Bombs.
Against MUD, I drew terribly. I had so much relevant removal against him, I just never drew anything I wanted against him. Game 1 he stomped me, game 2 was close but I couldn't draw a single spell off of my two Underworld Connections. Really disappointing loss.
Tomorrow I'll be mainboarding Nightveil Specters for the Win-A-Box. $10 says all my matchups will be GW decks
IMHO Prophetic Prism is way too cute in a deck where the ONLY card that warrants any type of mana fixing is Nightveil Specter. I could see it in a deck also running Dark Prophecy but that's really consigning yourself to mega-durdle. I mean combine that with Underworld Connections and you're running as many as 16 early drops that do absolutely nothing for potentially more than one turn. I already feel pretty durdly as it is...
Went 4-0 tonight at FNM (shortened due to PTQ tomorrow). Loving this deck.
Planned Changes:
-1 Devour Flesh (SB)
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead, Pack Rat, or Duress? (SB)
Not sure. I realized when I started sideboarding that I don't feel like there's a great place to stick the third Devour Flesh in, even against Blood Baron decks. Hard to say how I feel about Reaper of the Wilds because I haven't encountered any true aggro that I'd bring it in for.
Round 1: vs. UW Control
These games were the most interesting, I think. He had an extremely large number of counterspells, and I was playing around them the entire time and getting in with Mutavault when the coast was clear. Drew plenty of discard to keep him off Sphinx's Revelation, so the inevitability was always mine. Abrupt Decaying Detention Sphere is one of my favorite plays, with so many ways to trick block or surprise attack. At one point it looked like he might get away with ticking up a Jace to ultimate but I fought through triple Dissolve to Downfall it. 1-0 (2-0)
Round 2: vs. BW Midrange
This one was not much of a match unfortunately. Game 1 he kept a one-lander and drew dead. Game 2 he had a better hand until I Thoughtseized everything that mattered. He scooped early, but the writing was on the wall. 2-0 (4-0)
Round 3: vs. BW Midrange
This guy caught me a bit off-guard with lots of small white creatures (Precinct Captain and the 2/1 pro-multicolor guy) but Blood Baron was surprisingly easy to deal with; it resolved in both games that I won but was easily raced with Whip and Merchant. I think BW really needs to have all three to stand a chance here. My loss was on a pretty nasty mulligan to 4. As I sideboarded against these BW decks I realized that I don't really want a third Devour Flesh in there because I have no idea what I'd take out for it. 3-0 (6-1)
Round 4: vs. BWR Midrange
Rakdos's Return hurt me a couple times here as we took turns killing each others' only creatures, but Whip was the all-star that won it, so as long as I resolved that before RR landed I was good. Game 1 ended with a Whipped Merchant. Game 2 saw me keep a 7-land hand for no real reason (we'd already agreed to split it) and Game 3 was another Whipped Merchant for the kill. 4-0 (8-2)
I also played against a few decks on Cockatrice earlier: Dimir Mill/Control: Caught me by surprise, I won game 1 on the sheer luck of Mind Grind for 4 hitting 4 land in the 14 cards left in my library. Once I knew what I was looking for, Pithing Needle and Duress came in and his spells were hosed. This is a pretty awkward matchup as we have lots of draw power we don't necessarily want to use, but it's too vulnerable on the board. Red Devotion: I lost one game to a very fast draw against my mulligan/stumble, but overall I felt like it was pretty easy to disrupt their devotion and kill enough of their threats that Desecration Demon got to stay up as a blocker. They really need more burn spells to stop us from stonewalling them, so I don't fear this deck nearly as much as traditional RDW. GR Devotion: Domri sure doesn't live long here. I don't know how tuned his list was, but I didn't see any unusual card choices. Just had more than enough removal to strip all relevant threats while presenting the beatdown. I am generally more threatened by the versions that go heavy on Reach, which I didn't see here.
I went 4-1 at my FNM tonight beating 4 UWx decks in the process losing to Gr devotion due to mana screw and him playing 3 Garruks. The first 2 netted him 3 cards each the 2nd netted him 3 cards over 2 activations. I also stumbled on lands both games missing my 3rd land drop both games and then not seeing my 4th until like turn 7. They were still very close games and once I started hitting my land drops I never stopped seeing them until I was dead.
Round 1 against UWr control I just crushed him game 1 with pack rat, game 2 specter and demon got their after I tore apart his hand with seizes and duress.
Round 2 against UWr was pretty much the samething. Every time I looked at their hand I got rid of a Dsphere or Verdict and that helped shore up the match as they couldn't answer rat or demons.
Round 3 was against Esper control. Very fun games as crazy stuff usually happens, in game 2 I played his Jace and he scooped.
Round 4 was against another Esper control deck and game 2 he dropped a Jace and just plus +1d him until ultimate getting an Aetherling out of his deck and then a thoughtseize out of my deck (my hand was Whip, Whip, Erebos, Erebos, Gary, Gary) and I just dropped out Erebos and then 2 Gary's for game (I had connection and a specter in play).
Round 5 was against Gr devotion. Game 1 I stalled on land 3 and tried my hardest to keep him off of creatures but eventually he just double BTE into nykthos into Polukranos and I just couldn't find enough removal. Game 2 as I stated earlier he saw 3 Garruk's to my 2 Hero's Downfall and single ultimate price to all the crazy shenanigans he was pulling. He got to monstrous Polukranos for x= 10 killing my 9/9 demons and my Lifebane Zombie and just barely winning (he was at 4 life when I had a whip in play and the turn he killed me there was a gary on the top of my deck).
Overall was a great night. Any control deck feels like a bye even the one esper deck that ran 3 BBVs postboard was just incredibly smooth for me. Gr devotion sometimes gets such nutty draws that you can't do anything and stumbling on lands usually means GG for either player, unfortunately he got all the mana he needed as I just barely was able to with all his threats and grind out that last bit of life. I still need to work on my sideboard strategy against GR, I took out 2 connections and some specters for Zombies and Removal, as well as rats because I know he was running 4 Mortars in his 75. I feel like I should have just taken out all the specters for Zombies, and 2 thoughtseizes for more removal and the pack rats for the rest of the removal but I'm not completely sure. No more standard until Monday, but next week I'll be able to play in 3 standard events before the weekend where there will be 2 GPTs with a FTV20 as the first place prize. So hopefully I can figure out how to shore up the Gr matchup before then. I think I want to cutdown to 3 Zombies in the side and play a second Pithing needle, because I'm losing to Planeswalker and Monstrous dude most often. The Zombies great and all but I feel boarding in 4 seems less good then I want it to be, but then again I only ever saw 1 in my game against GR and multiples would have been amazing against the Garruk onslaught, thought at the same time Pithing needle would have been so much better.
I also play tested some matches against RDW and preboard felt like 50-50 depending on who went firsts and postboard was really good for me I went like 8/10 postboard games so I'm confident about that matchup and Mono U devotion is still just Mono U devotion and the plan to keep them off enough devotion to keep thassa inactive or holding removal for MoWs wins me games against them.
Another Fade, and another Granite too, make some room for it. A single one of either isn't going to be much use, you'll almost never have it when you need it. I've never been to hot on Pharika's Cure, but it's pretty much a meta call. Otherwise it should be fine!
I really want to like your list (yay Putrefy!), but fifteen 3CMC cards gives me cold sweats. I feel like any deck that plays fast is going to make a mess of you - I'd rather run Ultimate Price and Devour Flesh than Putrefy, and I'm not sure if cutting a Hero's Downfall is a good idea. I also feel Lifebane Zombie is too risky to mainboard. Why did you go with what you did?
Uh I don't think you have the right list that I was running. I was running BBDs GP list -1 Pack Rat in the board +1 Lifebane Zombie and -2 Mutavaults +1 Nykthos + 1 Swamp are the only changes. So Zombies were in the board, with 4 specter 4 downfall 4 connections main at the 3 CMC spot, so only 12 3 CMC spells mainboard in that spot and I usually took out some combination of Connections and/or Specters for the Zombies to prevent the 3 CMC spot getting too crowded (though against control it doesn't really matter since you board out dead removal for Duress, Needle, and Zombie).
Uh I don't think you have the right list that I was running. I was running BBDs GP list -1 Pack Rat in the board +1 Lifebane Zombie and -2 Mutavaults +1 Nykthos + 1 Swamp are the only changes. So Zombies were in the board, with 4 specter 4 downfall 4 connections main at the 3 CMC spot, so only 12 3 CMC spells mainboard in that spot and I usually took out some combination of Connections and/or Specters for the Zombies to prevent the 3 CMC spot getting too crowded (though against control it doesn't really matter since you board out dead removal for Duress, Needle, and Zombie).
Argh sorry, I did quote the wrong thing there I run twelve 3CMC also.
Meant to ask Psiven, this is what I get for posting late:
IMHO Prophetic Prism is way too cute in a deck where the ONLY card that warrants any type of mana fixing is Nightveil Specter. I could see it in a deck also running Dark Prophecy but that's really consigning yourself to mega-durdle. I mean combine that with Underworld Connections and you're running as many as 16 early drops that do absolutely nothing for potentially more than one turn. I already feel pretty durdly as it is...
Went 4-0 tonight at FNM (shortened due to PTQ tomorrow). Loving this deck.
Planned Changes:
-1 Devour Flesh (SB)
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead, Pack Rat, or Duress? (SB)
Not sure. I realized when I started sideboarding that I don't feel like there's a great place to stick the third Devour Flesh in, even against Blood Baron decks. Hard to say how I feel about Reaper of the Wilds because I haven't encountered any true aggro that I'd bring it in for.
Round 1: vs. UW Control
These games were the most interesting, I think. He had an extremely large number of counterspells, and I was playing around them the entire time and getting in with Mutavault when the coast was clear. Drew plenty of discard to keep him off Sphinx's Revelation, so the inevitability was always mine. Abrupt Decaying Detention Sphere is one of my favorite plays, with so many ways to trick block or surprise attack. At one point it looked like he might get away with ticking up a Jace to ultimate but I fought through triple Dissolve to Downfall it. 1-0 (2-0)
Round 2: vs. BW Midrange
This one was not much of a match unfortunately. Game 1 he kept a one-lander and drew dead. Game 2 he had a better hand until I Thoughtseized everything that mattered. He scooped early, but the writing was on the wall. 2-0 (4-0)
Round 3: vs. BW Midrange
This guy caught me a bit off-guard with lots of small white creatures (Precinct Captain and the 2/1 pro-multicolor guy) but Blood Baron was surprisingly easy to deal with; it resolved in both games that I won but was easily raced with Whip and Merchant. I think BW really needs to have all three to stand a chance here. My loss was on a pretty nasty mulligan to 4. As I sideboarded against these BW decks I realized that I don't really want a third Devour Flesh in there because I have no idea what I'd take out for it. 3-0 (6-1)
Round 4: vs. BWR Midrange
Rakdos's Return hurt me a couple times here as we took turns killing each others' only creatures, but Whip was the all-star that won it, so as long as I resolved that before RR landed I was good. Game 1 ended with a Whipped Merchant. Game 2 saw me keep a 7-land hand for no real reason (we'd already agreed to split it) and Game 3 was another Whipped Merchant for the kill. 4-0 (8-2)
I also played against a few decks on Cockatrice earlier: Dimir Mill/Control: Caught me by surprise, I won game 1 on the sheer luck of Mind Grind for 4 hitting 4 land in the 14 cards left in my library. Once I knew what I was looking for, Pithing Needle and Duress came in and his spells were hosed. This is a pretty awkward matchup as we have lots of draw power we don't necessarily want to use, but it's too vulnerable on the board. Red Devotion: I lost one game to a very fast draw against my mulligan/stumble, but overall I felt like it was pretty easy to disrupt their devotion and kill enough of their threats that Desecration Demon got to stay up as a blocker. They really need more burn spells to stop us from stonewalling them, so I don't fear this deck nearly as much as traditional RDW. GR Devotion: Domri sure doesn't live long here. I don't know how tuned his list was, but I didn't see any unusual card choices. Just had more than enough removal to strip all relevant threats while presenting the beatdown. I am generally more threatened by the versions that go heavy on Reach, which I didn't see here.
I really want to like your list (yay Putrefy!), but fifteen 3CMC cards gives me cold sweats. I feel like any deck that plays fast is going to make a mess of you - I'd rather run Ultimate Price and Devour Flesh than Putrefy, and I'm not sure if cutting a Hero's Downfall is a good idea. I also feel Lifebane Zombie is too risky to mainboard. Why did you go with what you did?
I really want to like your list (yay Putrefy!), but fifteen 3CMC cards gives me cold sweats. I feel like any deck that plays fast is going to make a mess of you - I'd rather run Ultimate Price and Devour Flesh than Putrefy, and I'm not sure if cutting a Hero's Downfall is a good idea. I also feel Lifebane Zombie is too risky to mainboard. Why did you go with what you did?
md lifebane is hardly risky, its a 3/1 with intimidate by itself so even if it hits nothing its still a threat.
Went undefeated last night with a splash of blue for Far // Away in the main (-1 Whip and -1 Devour) and Reap Intellect in the side. I never needed to side in Reap and Far // Away was fine, especially against GW.
Round One: RW Aggro. 2-1. Lost to a loose keep in game one, not enough removal and by the time my demon hit he had enough sac fodder. Game two was all Pack Rat, all day. Two Mutavaults and two pack rats, and underworld connections and an Erebos set me up for a pair of swinging 8/8 rats. Game three was Rat into Specter into Demon then Gary followed by Gary.
Round Two: RW Enchantment Aggro. 2-0. Removal, removal, Demon both games lead to quick scoops.
Round Three: GW. 2-1. Again, loose keep cost me game one against his X1, Lion, Smiter, Advent curve out. Game two was Rats of doom with double connections and a whip. Game three he mulled to 5 against my double thoughtseize opener. Not a good time for him.
Round Four: BUG Flash. 2-0. Really interesting list, Prophet of Kruphix, Demon, Jace, Caryatids, pack Rats, a few counters and kills. He never got any gas against me in either game, and I just had all the right removal at the right time.
I don't know if the blue is worth it, but in theory I love Reap Intellect. Far // Away seems like it could be a blow out in some situations, I just haven't seen them. Running 4 Grave, 4 Temple, 1 guildgate, I always had a blue source available. I was considering an Ashiok in the side, since the deck can stall pretty well, and in a more midrange matchup I can protect it long enough to potentially cast their Blood Baron or something.
I really want to like your list (yay Putrefy!), but fifteen 3CMC cards gives me cold sweats. I feel like any deck that plays fast is going to make a mess of you - I'd rather run Ultimate Price and Devour Flesh than Putrefy, and I'm not sure if cutting a Hero's Downfall is a good idea. I also feel Lifebane Zombie is too risky to mainboard. Why did you go with what you did?
The main reason I like Putrefy over additional 2cmc removal is that it's never dead whereas the others often are. Hero's Downfall #4 might be correct; the split is a hedge that Abrupt Decay will often be relevant against the planeswalkers I'd like to Downfall.
Lifebane has never been bad for me mainboard. Worst case he's either unblockable or trades with an attacker while giving me information. He does get sided out in matchups where he won't hit, but I think he pulls generalist duties well.
The only fast deck I've seen that concerns me is RDW; nobody seems to be playing it around here though.
Lifebane in my testing is worth a couple spots in the main.
What brings me back, and I can't go through all 40+ pages but what do people think of maybe running Ashiok in the deck maybe as a 1-2 of? Just asking because I pulled a 2nd one last night in my prize packs and got to thinking about my BlackDevo build.
Mono-R Aggro? Most of their deck is CMC 1-2. Being able to wipe their board before Fanatic of Mogis is kinda big.
Mono-U? Most of their early devotion and threats are CMC 0-2 (Cloudfin Raptop, Judge's Familiar, Frostburn Weird, Omen Speaker, Master tokens, Tidebinder Mage.)
Gr Devotion? Ramp... Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, Burning Tree Emissary, Scavenging Ooze.
In the mirror, it hits Rats, which is huge if we didn't open with Rat in hand, or manage to stick it.
Against Tier 1.5-2 aggro decks like GW Aggro, Wr Aggro, and so on, it just devastates them since most of their action is also 0-2.
Against Control, the card is not good. I would not want it there, while I would want all of my Duress and Abrupt Decay.
Maybe it is a sideboard play and not main. I'm fine with that, but there are a lot of matches where it is really strong and it fills a very definite role.
For those people monkeying with the removal, remember that Ultimate Price hits mono-colored, not colorless and Abrupt Decay can't destroy lands, aka Mutavault. We need some Doom Blade for that, if for nothing else.
Additional thought on Putrefy: turns off regeneration.
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Nykthos, Shrine of Nyx
3 Mutavault
13 Swamps
Creatures 15
4 Desecration Demon
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Pack Rat
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
Sorcery 4
4 Thoughtseize
Instant 10
2 Doom Blade
1 Putrefy
2 Devour Flesh
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Gaze of Granite
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Duress
1 Putrefy
1 Golgari Charm
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Pithing Needle
2 Fade into Antiquity
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
They can kill us with ashiok or aetherling and that is it. and underworld connections is actually better than revelations in the matcup.
We just outgrind control and play for the late game. The biggest weakness is that we do have alot of irrelevant removal game 1. However 4 md hero's downfall is annoying for them.
For everyone talking about splashes, if you don't want to play a color with scrylands add red. It gives you cheap removal for rdws and it gives you slaughtergames to crush the mirror.
The simple fact is you're not going to outrace absolutely everybody all the time. RDW is generally faster because it has burn for reach. Sometimes Green will stick a couple early mana dorks and drop fat T3-T5, White will splooge one-drops and swing at you with 3/3 Boros Elites on T3. In such cases you have to assume the role of the "control" player and slow the game down, especially on the draw because an aggro opponent on the play, with a decent hand, will always be faster.
The very same happaned to me at my LGS wednesday, it's completely weird how this deck gets mana screwed out of nowhere.
BTW, some pros have been making articles about how to beat Mono B Devotion and i think we can start assuming which are our deck's weaknesses and how to cover them up.
On DeTora's extra land drop on PT:GTC
Cash? Credit? Gold? or Jace?
I agree with the idea, but feel like running a cantrip mana fixer on turn 2 might not fit the deck when a lot of the time we need to be using turn 2 removal.
On a related note to today's tournament, a list much like the Bu posted above went 0-4 on rounds loosing to everyone (myself, MGD, MRD and azorius).
I feel like UWR/BWR put up some sort of fight against me, UW and UWB (Esper) are jokes. Our decks are different though and UB(W) is traditionally top dog when it comes to control mirrors, so understandable if you're playing a slower list. But Black has the CA engine(s) (Connections, Prophecy for me) to keep up with the draw power in blue-based control. Discard effectively allows you to force a threat through counters or take out their answer to whatever it is. It should at least be even-ish.
4 gray merchant of asphodel
4 nightveil specter
3 desecration demon
2 reaper of the wilds
2 pack rat
1 erebos, god of the dead
4 hero's downfall
2 abrubt decay
2 doom blade
1 putrefy
4 thoughtseize
enchantments:
4 underworld connection
2 whip of erebos
4 golgati guildgate
4 overgrown tomb
2 mutavault
1 nykthos, shrine to nyx
1 temple of mystery
13 swamp
Well, if you're going to ask, you should probably have a sideboard to move things around! If you wanted help with one, though, there are a few good things to have in the side.
Lifebane Zombie is excellent against any Green list (like GW aggro or R/G stuff), I run three in SB and swap with Nightveil Specter.
Erebos, God of the Dead is a great agains other MBC decks and BW Midrange mostly, I have one each in MB and SB, you could swap out a DD or Reaper.
I really like Devour Flesh with our removal - it can hit Blood Baron of Vizkopa or a monstrous Fleecemane Lion (assuming you couldn't Thoughtseize them away, of course), as long as there are no other creatures on the board.
Pithing Needle hoses down planeswalkers, AEtherling and the unblockable ability of Thassa, and a few other cards too, very cheaply. Take out some removal for it, I run two in SB.
Duress is a powerful counterpart to Thoughtseize against control and other noncreature-heavy decks, have two or three in SB and swap it with Doom Blade or other creature-only removal (as it's pretty dead against control).
As you're splashing Green, Gaze of Granite is a nice sweeper. It can hit our stuff too, but it's been brought up that it works best against decks that rely on one-and-two drop permanents (as we only have one in Pack Rat). Fade into Antiquity and Golgari Charm can also find uses, the former killing gods (and Erebos is very dangerous against us), and the latter able to kill any non-God enchantment, save your guys from a Supreme Verdict or sweep Master of Waves and his tokens away.
Basically, with the help of a little Green, we have a lot of SB options that help us cover up our weaknesses.
I had an alright night. My deck had 4 Lifebane Zombies in the main and 2 Pharika's Cure in the main, anticipating GW and RDW every round like the last few weeks have been. I played Control decks every round tonight. Guess that's how magic works sometimes. I didn't make any serious misplays, maybe I thoughtseized incorrectly once or twice but I'm still not sure.
One game I lost to Assemble the Legion. I had Thoughtseized two from his hand in that game, and then he drew a third and cast it. I won the round against him.
I beat both of the UW control decks I played. Crushed them into the ground except for one game that was very close but I got very lucky when the UW player misplayed his Aetherling.
The decks that I lost to were Esper Control and MUD. Against Esper, I won the first game very easily, I was drawing what I needed to and it was great. Game two, I was drawing alright, but the Esper player was just getting Dspheres exactly when he needed them and I couldn't keep up. Stole a Merchant with Ashiok for the win. Game three, same thing. He played 4 Dspheres and I couldn't get any of my Ratchet Bombs.
Against MUD, I drew terribly. I had so much relevant removal against him, I just never drew anything I wanted against him. Game 1 he stomped me, game 2 was close but I couldn't draw a single spell off of my two Underworld Connections. Really disappointing loss.
Tomorrow I'll be mainboarding Nightveil Specters for the Win-A-Box. $10 says all my matchups will be GW decks
Went 4-0 tonight at FNM (shortened due to PTQ tomorrow). Loving this deck.
11 Swamp
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Breeding Pool
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Mutavault
Creatures (17):
2 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Putrefy
3 Hero's Downfall
Other (5):
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Golgari Charm
2 Fade into Antiquity
2 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Devour Flesh
2 Gaze of Granite
2 Pithing Needle
1 Duress
1 Underworld Connections
Planned Changes:
-1 Devour Flesh (SB)
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead, Pack Rat, or Duress? (SB)
Not sure. I realized when I started sideboarding that I don't feel like there's a great place to stick the third Devour Flesh in, even against Blood Baron decks. Hard to say how I feel about Reaper of the Wilds because I haven't encountered any true aggro that I'd bring it in for.
Round 1: vs. UW Control
These games were the most interesting, I think. He had an extremely large number of counterspells, and I was playing around them the entire time and getting in with Mutavault when the coast was clear. Drew plenty of discard to keep him off Sphinx's Revelation, so the inevitability was always mine. Abrupt Decaying Detention Sphere is one of my favorite plays, with so many ways to trick block or surprise attack. At one point it looked like he might get away with ticking up a Jace to ultimate but I fought through triple Dissolve to Downfall it.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2: vs. BW Midrange
This one was not much of a match unfortunately. Game 1 he kept a one-lander and drew dead. Game 2 he had a better hand until I Thoughtseized everything that mattered. He scooped early, but the writing was on the wall.
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3: vs. BW Midrange
This guy caught me a bit off-guard with lots of small white creatures (Precinct Captain and the 2/1 pro-multicolor guy) but Blood Baron was surprisingly easy to deal with; it resolved in both games that I won but was easily raced with Whip and Merchant. I think BW really needs to have all three to stand a chance here. My loss was on a pretty nasty mulligan to 4. As I sideboarded against these BW decks I realized that I don't really want a third Devour Flesh in there because I have no idea what I'd take out for it.
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4: vs. BWR Midrange
Rakdos's Return hurt me a couple times here as we took turns killing each others' only creatures, but Whip was the all-star that won it, so as long as I resolved that before RR landed I was good. Game 1 ended with a Whipped Merchant. Game 2 saw me keep a 7-land hand for no real reason (we'd already agreed to split it) and Game 3 was another Whipped Merchant for the kill.
4-0 (8-2)
I also played against a few decks on Cockatrice earlier:
Dimir Mill/Control: Caught me by surprise, I won game 1 on the sheer luck of Mind Grind for 4 hitting 4 land in the 14 cards left in my library. Once I knew what I was looking for, Pithing Needle and Duress came in and his spells were hosed. This is a pretty awkward matchup as we have lots of draw power we don't necessarily want to use, but it's too vulnerable on the board.
Red Devotion: I lost one game to a very fast draw against my mulligan/stumble, but overall I felt like it was pretty easy to disrupt their devotion and kill enough of their threats that Desecration Demon got to stay up as a blocker. They really need more burn spells to stop us from stonewalling them, so I don't fear this deck nearly as much as traditional RDW.
GR Devotion: Domri sure doesn't live long here. I don't know how tuned his list was, but I didn't see any unusual card choices. Just had more than enough removal to strip all relevant threats while presenting the beatdown. I am generally more threatened by the versions that go heavy on Reach, which I didn't see here.
Round 1 against UWr control I just crushed him game 1 with pack rat, game 2 specter and demon got their after I tore apart his hand with seizes and duress.
Round 2 against UWr was pretty much the samething. Every time I looked at their hand I got rid of a Dsphere or Verdict and that helped shore up the match as they couldn't answer rat or demons.
Round 3 was against Esper control. Very fun games as crazy stuff usually happens, in game 2 I played his Jace and he scooped.
Round 4 was against another Esper control deck and game 2 he dropped a Jace and just plus +1d him until ultimate getting an Aetherling out of his deck and then a thoughtseize out of my deck (my hand was Whip, Whip, Erebos, Erebos, Gary, Gary) and I just dropped out Erebos and then 2 Gary's for game (I had connection and a specter in play).
Round 5 was against Gr devotion. Game 1 I stalled on land 3 and tried my hardest to keep him off of creatures but eventually he just double BTE into nykthos into Polukranos and I just couldn't find enough removal. Game 2 as I stated earlier he saw 3 Garruk's to my 2 Hero's Downfall and single ultimate price to all the crazy shenanigans he was pulling. He got to monstrous Polukranos for x= 10 killing my 9/9 demons and my Lifebane Zombie and just barely winning (he was at 4 life when I had a whip in play and the turn he killed me there was a gary on the top of my deck).
Overall was a great night. Any control deck feels like a bye even the one esper deck that ran 3 BBVs postboard was just incredibly smooth for me. Gr devotion sometimes gets such nutty draws that you can't do anything and stumbling on lands usually means GG for either player, unfortunately he got all the mana he needed as I just barely was able to with all his threats and grind out that last bit of life. I still need to work on my sideboard strategy against GR, I took out 2 connections and some specters for Zombies and Removal, as well as rats because I know he was running 4 Mortars in his 75. I feel like I should have just taken out all the specters for Zombies, and 2 thoughtseizes for more removal and the pack rats for the rest of the removal but I'm not completely sure. No more standard until Monday, but next week I'll be able to play in 3 standard events before the weekend where there will be 2 GPTs with a FTV20 as the first place prize. So hopefully I can figure out how to shore up the Gr matchup before then. I think I want to cutdown to 3 Zombies in the side and play a second Pithing needle, because I'm losing to Planeswalker and Monstrous dude most often. The Zombies great and all but I feel boarding in 4 seems less good then I want it to be, but then again I only ever saw 1 in my game against GR and multiples would have been amazing against the Garruk onslaught, thought at the same time Pithing needle would have been so much better.
I also play tested some matches against RDW and preboard felt like 50-50 depending on who went firsts and postboard was really good for me I went like 8/10 postboard games so I'm confident about that matchup and Mono U devotion is still just Mono U devotion and the plan to keep them off enough devotion to keep thassa inactive or holding removal for MoWs wins me games against them.
3 pharika's cure
2 devour flesh
1 golgari charm
1 gaze of granite
3 lifebane zombie
1 erebos, god of the dead
2 duress
1 pithing needle
1 ?
what would you put in the ? spot?
Another Fade, and another Granite too, make some room for it. A single one of either isn't going to be much use, you'll almost never have it when you need it. I've never been to hot on Pharika's Cure, but it's pretty much a meta call. Otherwise it should be fine!
I really want to like your list (yay Putrefy!), but fifteen 3CMC cards gives me cold sweats. I feel like any deck that plays fast is going to make a mess of you - I'd rather run Ultimate Price and Devour Flesh than Putrefy, and I'm not sure if cutting a Hero's Downfall is a good idea. I also feel Lifebane Zombie is too risky to mainboard. Why did you go with what you did?
Argh sorry, I did quote the wrong thing there I run twelve 3CMC also.
Meant to ask Psiven, this is what I get for posting late:
md lifebane is hardly risky, its a 3/1 with intimidate by itself so even if it hits nothing its still a threat.
It also gives you a hand peak which lets you win in the information side of the game.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Round One:
RW Aggro. 2-1. Lost to a loose keep in game one, not enough removal and by the time my demon hit he had enough sac fodder. Game two was all Pack Rat, all day. Two Mutavaults and two pack rats, and underworld connections and an Erebos set me up for a pair of swinging 8/8 rats. Game three was Rat into Specter into Demon then Gary followed by Gary.
Round Two:
RW Enchantment Aggro. 2-0. Removal, removal, Demon both games lead to quick scoops.
Round Three:
GW. 2-1. Again, loose keep cost me game one against his X1, Lion, Smiter, Advent curve out. Game two was Rats of doom with double connections and a whip. Game three he mulled to 5 against my double thoughtseize opener. Not a good time for him.
Round Four:
BUG Flash. 2-0. Really interesting list, Prophet of Kruphix, Demon, Jace, Caryatids, pack Rats, a few counters and kills. He never got any gas against me in either game, and I just had all the right removal at the right time.
I don't know if the blue is worth it, but in theory I love Reap Intellect. Far // Away seems like it could be a blow out in some situations, I just haven't seen them. Running 4 Grave, 4 Temple, 1 guildgate, I always had a blue source available. I was considering an Ashiok in the side, since the deck can stall pretty well, and in a more midrange matchup I can protect it long enough to potentially cast their Blood Baron or something.
The main reason I like Putrefy over additional 2cmc removal is that it's never dead whereas the others often are. Hero's Downfall #4 might be correct; the split is a hedge that Abrupt Decay will often be relevant against the planeswalkers I'd like to Downfall.
Lifebane has never been bad for me mainboard. Worst case he's either unblockable or trades with an attacker while giving me information. He does get sided out in matchups where he won't hit, but I think he pulls generalist duties well.
The only fast deck I've seen that concerns me is RDW; nobody seems to be playing it around here though.
What brings me back, and I can't go through all 40+ pages but what do people think of maybe running Ashiok in the deck maybe as a 1-2 of? Just asking because I pulled a 2nd one last night in my prize packs and got to thinking about my BlackDevo build.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG