The only time I've been screwed out of casting my cards has been the Punishing Fire, Grove interaction as well as extra Green Sun's Zenith which help me power out Vexing Shushers and Spellbreaker Behemoths. I've also considered dropping the singleton Wall of Roots but I like it as a target for GSZ. As it stands however, the Nether Void is mostly (almost entirely) an symmetrical effect as I can make my spells uncounterable or are already inherently uncounterable. I've been considering filling up my 3 drop spot however, as it is currently entirely empty, with Lilianas, dropping the Punishing Fires. Thoughts?
I mean, Liliana is great, but your deck seems to have an aggro-oriented game plan--with lots of creatures and ways to clear the board for your creatures to beat face (Bolts, Decays, Punishing Fire)--and Liliana serves more of a midrange- or control-based game plan. I'm not saying you shouldn't use Lily, though, just that you should think about what you want to use her for.
I mean, Liliana is great, but your deck seems to have an aggro-oriented game plan--with lots of creatures and ways to clear the board for your creatures to beat face (Bolts, Decays, Punishing Fire)--and Liliana serves more of a midrange- or control-based game plan. I'm not saying you shouldn't use Lily, though, just that you should think about what you want to use her for.
I want to drop the Punishing Fires and Groves for a) a three-drop that fits my strategy and b) better mana. What would you suggest?
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Decks Mishra, Artificer ProdigyUBR Iname As OneGB Meloku, the Clouded MirrorU
I really like the Idea of UB Control, also Mill, I often play with friends, but they are kind of competitive, so I would like a good control and if possible milling deck. Is that possible in Legacy?
I really like the Idea of UB Control, also Mill, I often play with friends, but they are kind of competitive, so I would like a good control and if possible milling deck. Is that possible in Legacy?
Maybe Painter in some form, some versions of it seem like combo mill/control. Not sure if it's quite what you're looking for though. Other than that I can't think of anything that mills that's very competitive, if you like milling yourself just as much as your opponents there's Cephalid Breakfast and Oops all speells :P.
Does anyone know if BW Stoneblade can still put up results? I've been slowly aquiring the cards I need for it, and wouldn't mind finishing it off if I could do okay in some small tournaments.
Does anyone know if BW Stoneblade can still put up results? I've been slowly aquiring the cards I need for it, and wouldn't mind finishing it off if I could do okay in some small tournaments.
Deck is great, performs as well as any/a lot of tier 1 decks with the right cards played in the right order. Don't forget 1x Bayou and 4x Deathrite, it wouldn't be the same without it.
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BBBB mono black midrange RRRR mono red aggro GWGW selesnya aggro
Deck is great, performs as well as any/a lot of tier 1 decks with the right cards played in the right order. Don't forget 1x Bayou and 4x Deathrite, it wouldn't be the same without it.
You think? What would I cut for the death rites? I've seen a lot of lists that play 2-4 Tidehollow Sculler which might be able to go, though I feel it has a bigger impact than Thoughtseize, which I wouldn't mind cutting either.
You think? What would I cut for the death rites? I've seen a lot of lists that play 2-4 Tidehollow Sculler which might be able to go, though I feel it has a bigger impact than Thoughtseize, which I wouldn't mind cutting either.
4 shaman
4 bob
4 stoneforge
4 skuller
X thoughtseize cabal IOK hymm lilli (find the right mix)
4 lingering souls
4 swords
2-3 equips
X other
20-22 lands
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BBBB mono black midrange RRRR mono red aggro GWGW selesnya aggro
So I'm beginning to really lose hope in Modern (with the metagame being pretty boring, Jund being clearly better than everything else and not hate-able, and Wizard's uninterest in unbanning interesting cards on the banlist and banning decks like storm/eggs that helped diversity) and am looking at investing in Legacy.
What I most like to play are interesting/interactive decks that give me an advantage over my opponent for playing well. From the prospective of Modern at least I know this is a distant dream but Legacy is known for being difficult to play, and surprisingly diverse, so I'm hopeful.
What I'm looking at playing now is High Tide (minus the Candelabras). This seems like a deck that is decent enough to play solidly at the fnm level, is cheap, and the expensive cards you need are useful in other decks. I was looking at transitioning the deck to Mono U Control in the future, as apparently that is a decent deck, and benefits from the Forces/Tops in High Tide. Playing Merfolk also seems decently fun, though I am least excited about this deck of the three, only the Forces will transfer, and it's got many expensive cards otherwise to buy.
The other deck I am considering is something like The Gate. The bobs and LoTV's would be useful if I wanted to play Modern more, but the deck doesn't look to be interesting. Mono B Control would be maybe fun if it isn't a bad deck. Plus I like Toxic Deluge lol.
So for some concrete questions:
How viable is High Tide (w/o Candles), Mono U Control, Merfolk, The Gate, and Mono B Control? Could I do well at a more serious fnm?
How interesting/interactive are these decks?
Which deck in Legacy is the best investment?
So I'm beginning to really lose hope in Modern (with the metagame being pretty boring, Jund being clearly better than everything else and not hate-able, and Wizard's uninterest in unbanning interesting cards on the banlist and banning decks like storm/eggs that helped diversity) and am looking at investing in Legacy.
Egg was needed to be banned because it made the matches EXTREMELY long and boring, same reason with Sensei's Divine Top, seems Wizards doesn't like cards that just make the game longer and boring for the opponent (see Shahrazad, it is banned in legacy, and not because it is overpowered)
I'm looking into getting into Legacy lately as Standard is just so bland to me right now and I like eternal formats because, well, they're eternal. I don't have much trade stock or cash to work with so I've come down to two potential decks. the first being Mana-less dredge. I really like the way it seems to play out(I've only watched people playing so far, have yet to proxy up a deck and give it a try or borrow one for that matter). The second being mono-r burn. I feel burn is the "easy way out" deck but as I said I really like the look of dredge decks and it's something I can "upgrade" further down the road with LEDs and such. What would you suggest? Sorry for the wall of text. =X
Edit: After doing a bit more research I've seen some lists that appear to be decent that don't run LED. If anyone has any insight into playability of these lists please let me know. Thanks!
Egg was needed to be banned because it made the matches EXTREMELY long and boring, same reason with Sensei's Divine Top, seems Wizards doesn't like cards that just make the game longer and boring for the opponent (see Shahrazad, it is banned in legacy, and not because it is overpowered)
While, I don't mind Eggs or Top being banned in Modern as much as many other offences on that ban list, I would like to say that Shahrazad is pretty OP.
It used to be played in the board of decks that could play it for cases where you win game 1, you would side in a set, and without having any slow play happening, go into sub game and maybe even sub sub game to time out the match and secure your victory 1-0-0.
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BBBB mono black midrange RRRR mono red aggro GWGW selesnya aggro
I'm looking into getting into Legacy lately as Standard is just so bland to me right now and I like eternal formats because, well, they're eternal. I don't have much trade stock or cash to work with so I've come down to two potential decks. the first being Mana-less dredge. I really like the way it seems to play out(I've only watched people playing so far, have yet to proxy up a deck and give it a try or borrow one for that matter). The second being mono-r burn. I feel burn is the "easy way out" deck but as I said I really like the look of dredge decks and it's something I can "upgrade" further down the road with LEDs and such. What would you suggest? Sorry for the wall of text. =X
Edit: After doing a bit more research I've seen some lists that appear to be decent that don't run LED. If anyone has any insight into playability of these lists please let me know. Thanks!
I think one should always play the deck that one enjoys most. The problem with both Burn and Dredge is that they're both very linear. Neither of them upgrades well. Once you've got those LEDs and the Rainbow Lands to play the fully powered-up Dredge deck, it's over. The decks that can be morphed into after that are pretty far away, requiring a number of duals and fetches.
That said, knowing the Massachusetts metagame, Dredge will probably see more victories in sanctioned play.
My opinion might be colored by my own preference for Dredge.
Mono B Control would be maybe fun if it isn't a bad deck. Plus I like Toxic Deluge lol.
So for some concrete questions:
How viable is High Tide (w/o Candles), Mono U Control, Merfolk, The Gate, and Mono B Control? Could I do well at a more serious fnm?
How interesting/interactive are these decks?
Which deck in Legacy is the best investment?
Mono Black Control is not a bad deck at all. It isn't extremely popular, but with practice, it is definitely competitive at a local level. However, it is an expensive deck that uses cards that are not Legacy staples. In fact, the only expensive cards in the deck that see a lot of play elsewhere are Liliana and Wasteland. If your main goal is to play a deck that serves as a gateway to other decks, then Legacy MBC isn't for you.
For advice on the other archetypes: I'm not the person to talk to.
While, I don't mind Eggs or Top being banned in Modern as much as many other offences on that ban list, I would like to say that Shahrazad is pretty OP.
It used to be played in the board of decks that could play it for cases where you win game 1, you would side in a set, and without having any slow play happening, go into sub game and maybe even sub sub game to time out the match and secure your victory 1-0-0.
That's what he's saying, that Shahrazad only exists to slow the game.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
That's what he's saying, that Shahrazad only exists to slow the game.
No, that is not why it exists. However that is how it was abused in Vintage, and to many people could not make the right call with Shahrazad. The big choice with it is to concede the sub-game or not, and to many people were making the wrong call.
If not conceding means you will go to time, you concede the sub game, but people were playing it out when they should not have.
This is a problem with the playerbase that crops up from time to time, and Shahrazad really points out. To many people do not know when to concede the game, and that can cause rounds to go to time when they should not.
I tend to ask my local group for deck challenges to play competively and have decided to ask the forum this time for some potential ideas.
Is there something you think is good but sees little to no play? A pet card? Some card you think is strictly bad?
Land tax and varolz were some recent notables (although I was going to build parfait anyway), and vengevine has been one suggested recently. Either way I hope to get some ideas.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
I tend to ask my local group for deck challenges to play competively and have decided to ask the forum this time for some potential ideas.
Is there something you think is good but sees little to no play? A pet card? Some card you think is strictly bad?
Land tax and varolz were some recent notables (although I was going to build parfait anyway), and vengevine has been one suggested recently. Either way I hope to get some ideas.
So I'm not necessarily in a position to go out a buy a 75 card competitive legacy deck, but I'd like to get an idea of what sort of decks might fit my style. I originally looked into buying into modern, but was sort of turned off by the fact that competitive decks almost always need to be insanely proactive. I personally like toolbox-y, grindy decks and my preferred style of game is an interactive but mostly reactive style. Thoughts?
So I'm not necessarily in a position to go out a buy a 75 card competitive legacy deck, but I'd like to get an idea of what sort of decks might fit my style. I originally looked into buying into modern, but was sort of turned off by the fact that competitive decks almost always need to be insanely proactive. I personally like toolbox-y, grindy decks and my preferred style of game is an interactive but mostly reactive style. Thoughts?
I haven't played all these decks so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm misrepresenting one, but I'll throw out a bunch that hit various elements of your style, as sometimes one can be surprised by the deck they fall into.
Prime contenders: Miracle Control, Esperblade or other blade decks.
Tool box-y and grindy but maybe too proactive for you: Aggro Loam, Nic Fit, Maverick
Probably/possibly not Tier 1: Enchantress, Lands, Parfait
Probably/possibly not Tier 1 and not toolbox-y: BUG Control (although toolbox-y if you see Snapcaster Mage that way), not the Shardless one, Landstill
Probably/possibly not Tier 1, more disruptive than reactive, not toolbox-y: Stax, Pox
Oh, and I should mention Bant too.
Thought of another possibility depending on the build: Imperial Painter
I mean, Liliana is great, but your deck seems to have an aggro-oriented game plan--with lots of creatures and ways to clear the board for your creatures to beat face (Bolts, Decays, Punishing Fire)--and Liliana serves more of a midrange- or control-based game plan. I'm not saying you shouldn't use Lily, though, just that you should think about what you want to use her for.
I want to drop the Punishing Fires and Groves for a) a three-drop that fits my strategy and b) better mana. What would you suggest?
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy UBR
Iname As One GB
Meloku, the Clouded Mirror U
Maybe Painter in some form, some versions of it seem like combo mill/control. Not sure if it's quite what you're looking for though. Other than that I can't think of anything that mills that's very competitive, if you like milling yourself just as much as your opponents there's Cephalid Breakfast and Oops all speells :P.
Deck is great, performs as well as any/a lot of tier 1 decks with the right cards played in the right order. Don't forget 1x Bayou and 4x Deathrite, it wouldn't be the same without it.
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
You think? What would I cut for the death rites? I've seen a lot of lists that play 2-4 Tidehollow Sculler which might be able to go, though I feel it has a bigger impact than Thoughtseize, which I wouldn't mind cutting either.
4 shaman
4 bob
4 stoneforge
4 skuller
X thoughtseize cabal IOK hymm lilli (find the right mix)
4 lingering souls
4 swords
2-3 equips
X other
20-22 lands
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
What I most like to play are interesting/interactive decks that give me an advantage over my opponent for playing well. From the prospective of Modern at least I know this is a distant dream but Legacy is known for being difficult to play, and surprisingly diverse, so I'm hopeful.
What I'm looking at playing now is High Tide (minus the Candelabras). This seems like a deck that is decent enough to play solidly at the fnm level, is cheap, and the expensive cards you need are useful in other decks. I was looking at transitioning the deck to Mono U Control in the future, as apparently that is a decent deck, and benefits from the Forces/Tops in High Tide. Playing Merfolk also seems decently fun, though I am least excited about this deck of the three, only the Forces will transfer, and it's got many expensive cards otherwise to buy.
The other deck I am considering is something like The Gate. The bobs and LoTV's would be useful if I wanted to play Modern more, but the deck doesn't look to be interesting. Mono B Control would be maybe fun if it isn't a bad deck. Plus I like Toxic Deluge lol.
So for some concrete questions:
How viable is High Tide (w/o Candles), Mono U Control, Merfolk, The Gate, and Mono B Control? Could I do well at a more serious fnm?
How interesting/interactive are these decks?
Which deck in Legacy is the best investment?
WUBRGReaper KingGRBUW 5c Blink [Less Competitive]
WBEvershrikeBW Orzhov Enchantments [Less Competitive]
GIwamori of the Open FistG Green Smash [Less Competitive]
RGWUInk-Treader NephilimUWGR Draw Too Many Cards [More Competitive]
URJhoira of the GhituRU Izzet Stax [More Competitive]
URGRiku of Two ReflectionsGRU Ceta Dredge [More Competitive]
Modern
RUGBNightshiftBGUR Like Scapeshift but bad
Egg was needed to be banned because it made the matches EXTREMELY long and boring, same reason with Sensei's Divine Top, seems Wizards doesn't like cards that just make the game longer and boring for the opponent (see Shahrazad, it is banned in legacy, and not because it is overpowered)
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
Edit: After doing a bit more research I've seen some lists that appear to be decent that don't run LED. If anyone has any insight into playability of these lists please let me know. Thanks!
While, I don't mind Eggs or Top being banned in Modern as much as many other offences on that ban list, I would like to say that Shahrazad is pretty OP.
It used to be played in the board of decks that could play it for cases where you win game 1, you would side in a set, and without having any slow play happening, go into sub game and maybe even sub sub game to time out the match and secure your victory 1-0-0.
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
I think one should always play the deck that one enjoys most. The problem with both Burn and Dredge is that they're both very linear. Neither of them upgrades well. Once you've got those LEDs and the Rainbow Lands to play the fully powered-up Dredge deck, it's over. The decks that can be morphed into after that are pretty far away, requiring a number of duals and fetches.
That said, knowing the Massachusetts metagame, Dredge will probably see more victories in sanctioned play.
My opinion might be colored by my own preference for Dredge.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Mono Black Control is not a bad deck at all. It isn't extremely popular, but with practice, it is definitely competitive at a local level. However, it is an expensive deck that uses cards that are not Legacy staples. In fact, the only expensive cards in the deck that see a lot of play elsewhere are Liliana and Wasteland. If your main goal is to play a deck that serves as a gateway to other decks, then Legacy MBC isn't for you.
For advice on the other archetypes: I'm not the person to talk to.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=462444
Also, since you are on a budget it wouldnt hurt to check out the rest of the primer, specifically all the decks presented.
Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.
That's what he's saying, that Shahrazad only exists to slow the game.
If not conceding means you will go to time, you concede the sub game, but people were playing it out when they should not have.
This is a problem with the playerbase that crops up from time to time, and Shahrazad really points out. To many people do not know when to concede the game, and that can cause rounds to go to time when they should not.
Is there something you think is good but sees little to no play? A pet card? Some card you think is strictly bad?
Land tax and varolz were some recent notables (although I was going to build parfait anyway), and vengevine has been one suggested recently. Either way I hope to get some ideas.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Power Artifact, Stronghold Gambit, Magus of the Tabernacle, Suppression Field, Illusionary Mask/Torpor Orb/Phyrexian Dreadnought, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, Eureka, Pyrostatic Pillar, Mystic Remora, Vexing Devil, Koth of the Hammer, Island Sanctuary, Sundial of the Infinite, Humility, Volrath's Shapeshifter, Hunting Grounds
I may think of a few more when I'm less tired
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Well, looks like I have to think of some pet cards that are even worse
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Pemmin's ElfBall [Casual]
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I haven't played all these decks so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm misrepresenting one, but I'll throw out a bunch that hit various elements of your style, as sometimes one can be surprised by the deck they fall into.
Prime contenders: Miracle Control, Esperblade or other blade decks.
Tool box-y and grindy but maybe too proactive for you: Aggro Loam, Nic Fit, Maverick
Probably/possibly not Tier 1: Enchantress, Lands, Parfait
Probably/possibly not Tier 1 and not toolbox-y: BUG Control (although toolbox-y if you see Snapcaster Mage that way), not the Shardless one, Landstill
Probably/possibly not Tier 1, more disruptive than reactive, not toolbox-y: Stax, Pox
Oh, and I should mention Bant too.
Thought of another possibility depending on the build: Imperial Painter
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams