Since you posted the thread, I'm interested in hearing in some detail how you think this would this correct the uneven color representation and limited variety of Modern decks.
Because near as I can tell, from a cursory analysis, it'd lead to a few Legacy-derived decks supplanting everything else in the format, and it doesn't look like that'd address the issue.
You are assuming I am saying, something I never said. I often wish I could post things and people could understand what I am saying, instead of jumping to conclusions.
The cards listed that I don't have an issue with are. Wasteland, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Burning Wish, Living Wish, Cunning Wish, Armageddon, Goblin Welder, Karakas, Hymn to Tourach, Ancient Tomb, Impulse, Buried Alive, and Windfall.
You may be right on some of these. But Buried Alive would make Griselbrand Reanimator get consistent turn 3 wins. Ancent Tombo would do the same for Splinter Twin. Ponder and Preordain are banned for making decks to consistent, but you think the wishes are a good idea? That seems off.
Can you perform the worldgorger loop in modern? If not worldgorger is pretty bad
if you could reanimate or put into play two at the same time, then that would make a loop I believe? Too tired right now to thoroughly examine it, but I think it would work.
Otherwise I don't think there are any Animate Dead/Necromancy type spells in modern.
EDIT: No I think I'm wrong, two would not work, it would just blink all your stuff, then re-exile everything, leaving you with just one dragon.
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Since you posted the thread, I'm interested in hearing in some detail how you think this would this correct the uneven color representation and limited variety of Modern decks.
Because near as I can tell, from a cursory analysis, it'd lead to a few Legacy-derived decks supplanting everything else in the format, and it doesn't look like that'd address the issue.
The discussion isn't based on fixing perceived problems in the format. Just the likelihood of a change happening.
Well, total legality would imply the lack of a banned list, therefore, no. You contradict yourself in the OP.
Another great example of someone assuming I am saying something, I never intended on saying. But I fixed that, thanks for pointing it out. I don't want to confuse anyone else.
Regardless, if all modern bordered cards were applicable for the format, the banned list would be 100+ cards long, so again, no.
Why would there be 100+ cards on the list. I can see some being banned, but 100+ seems excessive. There are around 30 now on the list, what are the additional 70 cards?
lol, i don't really have time to list 70+ broken cards....actually i just don't want to type them up on my phone. I'm sure id be able to make a list once im on my laptop.
There was a guy talking about FOW not having a modern border version, just was referring to him.
EDIT: On my laptop now. So divided into three sections: Definitely banned; Possibly banned; Potentially oppressive:
27 cards that would definitely be banned. 28 more that are possibly banworthy, and another 16 that could potentially be oppressive. And there were a few cards that I though of putting on the list but figured they either could be safe, or create fun interactions or new decks/archetypes.
Can you perform the worldgorger loop in modern? If not worldgorger is pretty bad
While there is no Animate Dead in Modern, you can however, draw inspiration from EDH/Commander. I've seen a guy using Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck get one in play, and kept retracing Spitting Image for a loop. It's not impossible to break it in modern w/ enough creativity.
For example:
Hand: phantasmal image, Body double
Battlefield: phyrexian metamorph + glut of mana sources + ETB Cantrip critter
Graveyard: Worldgorger Dragon
Play Body Double.
a)Body Double etb copying worldgorger dragon, exile everything you control.
Play Phantasmal Image
b) Phantasmal Image etb copying Worldgorger Dragon(Body Double), exile Body Double, return everything else.
c) Phyrexian Metamorph etb copying Worldgorger Dragon(phantasmal image), exile Phantasmal Image, return Body Double.
d) do a, b, c, and d.
seems pretty safe to me, how is it any better than reanimating griselbrand or emrakul without the instant combo win.
Sure draws could happen but that deck seems weak even to draw a game
I'm merging all of the "Modern card frame" reprints with this thread because it is, in effect, talking about reprints. We probably need a separate thread to talk about Commander cards/products
Phyrexian Dreadnought would allow for a Modern Stiflenought deck (I tried with the Hunted creatures and Eater of Days, but they were either too expensive or weren't worth the effort).
Phyrexian Dreadnought would allow for a Modern Stiflenought deck (I tried with the Hunted creatures and Eater of Days, but they were either too expensive or weren't worth the effort).
Phyrexian Dreadnought would allow for a Modern Stiflenought deck (I tried with the Hunted creatures and Eater of Days, but they were either too expensive or weren't worth the effort).
Here are the cards I most want to see in the format. They address some of the issues that people have been talking about over the past pages:
Innocent Blood
Removal that doesn't help midrange, doesn't help Jund, and does help the most underrepresented deckstyle in the format (Control). It's also awesome against DRS.
Ruination
Punishes the 4C goodstuff decks of the format. Doesn't warp the metagame (Wasteland would seriously warp it). Needs to be built around but doesn't push a single deck. Back to Basics is alright but it's a bit too pushed for my tastes and not as interesting from a deck building perspective.
Fact or Fiction
A little pushed towards control, but it's a great boost for all the blue-based control, not just UWR. It's not broken on its own and probably wouldn't be broken coming down on turn 4 in this format. In many respects, it's a fairer AV. And it's definitely more skill-testing than AV and other strong draw spells.
The key with these cards is that they all work against the current tier 1 strategies, and they all don't import strategies from Legacy to Modern. They could find unique homes here with a distinctly Modern feel, not just repackagings of Legacy lists.
It has one, its called Maelstrom Pulse.
No, Modern does not need Vindicate, no way Jose.
what i mean is modern needs a main deck answer to everything and outside of the BGx shell. would you rather see everyone turning to jund or BGx or some more top tier decks in the esper colors.
what i mean is modern needs a main deck answer to everything and outside of the BGx shell. would you rather see everyone turning to jund or BGx or some more top tier decks in the esper colors.
these dont fix our matchups against tron or combo, nor do they serve as an answer vs PWs/enchantments/artifacts.
Besides, I agree with the idea that counterspell would be too cheap and efficient in modern.
How? Thoughtseize does the exact same thing at the price of two life for half the cost. (Counterspell is better when both players are in topdeck mode, but Thoughtseize is better in the early game.)
these dont fix our matchups against tron or combo, nor do they serve as an answer vs PWs/enchantments/artifacts.
Besides, I agree with the idea that counterspell would be too cheap and efficient in modern.
Why do you think so? We have access to the best discard in the game (minus Hymn) in TS and IoK. We have the best creature removal (minus Swords) in Bolt and Swords. We have Decay as a catchall and DRS/Scooze for the graveyard. Overall, Modern has a lot of card quality, but as anyone can notice from looking over those cards I mentioned, it's heavily skewed towards BG and BGx decks. Card quality in blue is much lower, which might be deliberate on the part of Wizards, but it has caused some issues with this format as we saw this year.
Why do you think so? We have access to the best discard in the game (minus Hymn) in TS and IoK. We have the best creature removal (minus Swords) in Bolt and Swords. We have Decay as a catchall and DRS/Scooze for the graveyard. Overall, Modern has a lot of card quality, but as anyone can notice from looking over those cards I mentioned, it's heavily skewed towards BG and BGx decks. Card quality in blue is much lower, which might be deliberate on the part of Wizards, but it has caused some issues with this format as we saw this year.
I meant for esper color control/midrange players... we do have all that, but that's in a JUND shell. I just think that having vindicate could possibly open up some more options, not necessarily superior to the BGx shell but at least worth going. whereas right now the BGx shell is just way too strong, you need an answer? go to the BGx or jund shell.
I meant for esper color control/midrange players... we do have all that, but that's in a JUND shell. I just think that having vindicate could possibly open up some more options, not necessarily superior to the BGx shell but at least worth going. whereas right now the BGx shell is just way too strong, you need an answer? go to the BGx or jund shell.
How? Thoughtseize does the exact same thing at the price of two life for half the cost. (Counterspell is better when both players are in topdeck mode, but Thoughtseize is better in the early game.)
see vindicate can hit manlands, tron pieces, all artifacts/enchantments/PWs. I think having the option to hit lands is crucial, at least right now with the esper control i have i really need something like vindicate (or just something like abrupt decay/maelstrom pulse but in esper colours) main board to bring me on par with other decks.
it would definitely. but when you already have abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse how much does vindicate help you? where as in esper colours all we have is something like... hero's downfall?
Because near as I can tell, from a cursory analysis, it'd lead to a few Legacy-derived decks supplanting everything else in the format, and it doesn't look like that'd address the issue.
You may be right on some of these. But Buried Alive would make Griselbrand Reanimator get consistent turn 3 wins. Ancent Tombo would do the same for Splinter Twin. Ponder and Preordain are banned for making decks to consistent, but you think the wishes are a good idea? That seems off.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Regardless, if all modern bordered cards were applicable for the format, the banned list would be 100+ cards long, so again, no.
(Side note, on MTGO, there is a Modern border Force of will, to the player who mentioned it.)
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
if you could reanimate or put into play two at the same time, then that would make a loop I believe? Too tired right now to thoroughly examine it, but I think it would work.
Otherwise I don't think there are any Animate Dead/Necromancy type spells in modern.
EDIT: No I think I'm wrong, two would not work, it would just blink all your stuff, then re-exile everything, leaving you with just one dragon.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
The discussion isn't based on fixing perceived problems in the format. Just the likelihood of a change happening.
Another great example of someone assuming I am saying something, I never intended on saying. But I fixed that, thanks for pointing it out. I don't want to confuse anyone else.
Why would there be 100+ cards on the list. I can see some being banned, but 100+ seems excessive. There are around 30 now on the list, what are the additional 70 cards?
Explain, I don't understand what you are trying to say.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
There was a guy talking about FOW not having a modern border version, just was referring to him.
EDIT: On my laptop now. So divided into three sections: Definitely banned; Possibly banned; Potentially oppressive:
Definitely banned:
Possibly Banned:
Potentially Oppressive:
27 cards that would definitely be banned. 28 more that are possibly banworthy, and another 16 that could potentially be oppressive. And there were a few cards that I though of putting on the list but figured they either could be safe, or create fun interactions or new decks/archetypes.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
While there is no Animate Dead in Modern, you can however, draw inspiration from EDH/Commander. I've seen a guy using Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck get one in play, and kept retracing Spitting Image for a loop. It's not impossible to break it in modern w/ enough creativity.
For example:
Hand: phantasmal image, Body double
Battlefield: phyrexian metamorph + glut of mana sources + ETB Cantrip critter
Graveyard: Worldgorger Dragon
Play Body Double.
a)Body Double etb copying worldgorger dragon, exile everything you control.
Play Phantasmal Image
b) Phantasmal Image etb copying Worldgorger Dragon(Body Double), exile Body Double, return everything else.
c) Phyrexian Metamorph etb copying Worldgorger Dragon(phantasmal image), exile Phantasmal Image, return Body Double.
d) do a, b, c, and d.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Sure draws could happen but that deck seems weak even to draw a game
With O-ring and similar effects you can.
It's not as pretty though, and it basically amounts to trying to cast three faceless butchers.
Phyrexian Dreadnought would allow for a Modern Stiflenought deck (I tried with the Hunted creatures and Eater of Days, but they were either too expensive or weren't worth the effort).
Memory Lapse and Counterspell would both be good editions to the format.
I would love getting Unexpectedly Absent.
From the Ashes and Back to Basics would also help punish greedy manabases.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I agree with all of those, unfortunately Dreadnought is on the reserved list though.
A man can dream...
Also stifle. I'd like Stifle in Modern even without dreadnought.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
It has one, its called Maelstrom Pulse.
No, Modern does not need Vindicate, no way Jose.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Innocent Blood
Removal that doesn't help midrange, doesn't help Jund, and does help the most underrepresented deckstyle in the format (Control). It's also awesome against DRS.
Ruination
Punishes the 4C goodstuff decks of the format. Doesn't warp the metagame (Wasteland would seriously warp it). Needs to be built around but doesn't push a single deck. Back to Basics is alright but it's a bit too pushed for my tastes and not as interesting from a deck building perspective.
Fact or Fiction
A little pushed towards control, but it's a great boost for all the blue-based control, not just UWR. It's not broken on its own and probably wouldn't be broken coming down on turn 4 in this format. In many respects, it's a fairer AV. And it's definitely more skill-testing than AV and other strong draw spells.
The key with these cards is that they all work against the current tier 1 strategies, and they all don't import strategies from Legacy to Modern. They could find unique homes here with a distinctly Modern feel, not just repackagings of Legacy lists.
what i mean is modern needs a main deck answer to everything and outside of the BGx shell. would you rather see everyone turning to jund or BGx or some more top tier decks in the esper colors.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
counterspell
swords to plowshares
done and done.
these dont fix our matchups against tron or combo, nor do they serve as an answer vs PWs/enchantments/artifacts.
Besides, I agree with the idea that counterspell would be too cheap and efficient in modern.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
How? Thoughtseize does the exact same thing at the price of two life for half the cost. (Counterspell is better when both players are in topdeck mode, but Thoughtseize is better in the early game.)
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Why do you think so? We have access to the best discard in the game (minus Hymn) in TS and IoK. We have the best creature removal (minus Swords) in Bolt and Swords. We have Decay as a catchall and DRS/Scooze for the graveyard. Overall, Modern has a lot of card quality, but as anyone can notice from looking over those cards I mentioned, it's heavily skewed towards BG and BGx decks. Card quality in blue is much lower, which might be deliberate on the part of Wizards, but it has caused some issues with this format as we saw this year.
I meant for esper color control/midrange players... we do have all that, but that's in a JUND shell. I just think that having vindicate could possibly open up some more options, not necessarily superior to the BGx shell but at least worth going. whereas right now the BGx shell is just way too strong, you need an answer? go to the BGx or jund shell.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Vindicate fits right into Junk.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
see vindicate can hit manlands, tron pieces, all artifacts/enchantments/PWs. I think having the option to hit lands is crucial, at least right now with the esper control i have i really need something like vindicate (or just something like abrupt decay/maelstrom pulse but in esper colours) main board to bring me on par with other decks.
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
it would definitely. but when you already have abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse how much does vindicate help you? where as in esper colours all we have is something like... hero's downfall?
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU