I'm curious as to how relevant steam augury will be in here. It's great card advantage, but giving your opponent the choice will result in a lot of cards in your hand that won't do much of anything. I think if you're playing augury, you'll probably want 1-2 Mystic retrievals in your deck so your opponent doesn't just bin your ultimatums and leave you with no win conditions.
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I'm curious as to how relevant steam augury will be in here. It's great card advantage, but giving your opponent the choice will result in a lot of cards in your hand that won't do much of anything. I think if you're playing augury, you'll probably want 1-2 Mystic retrievals in your deck so your opponent doesn't just bin your ultimatums and leave you with no win conditions.
Hahah then just play gifts in the first place like I said. Seriously really enjoy the combo with Mystic Retrieval its quite powerful in this deck. Basically take Cheons build cut 1 cruel and one teachings for a single gifts and retrieval. Mybe cut a snapy or cryptic for a second gifs. I dont know why every acts like all opponents start the game with a DRS and Ooze in play.
So pumped that Chapin is rocking this deck. Here is a video of it for anyone who hasn't seen.
Some things I noticed:
Mulldrifter
Coalition Relic
2 Lavaclaw Reaches (as opposed to 4 Creeping Tar-Pits) - I really like his reasons behind this
Batterskull, Teachings, Teferi, and Liliana in the board.
I'm extremely new to Modern, but this deck has caught my eye and I decided I had enough of the pieces (although those fetches are gonna hurt lol) to put the deck together. The impression I'm under is that one of the biggest reasons UWR Control is better than Grixis is the aggro match-ups. Both decks can eat creatures, but Grixis struggles to gain back any of the life lost whereas UWR has Lightning Helix and Ajani.
Crypt Incursion is nowhere near as good as either of those cards, but is it good enough to be a one or two-of in the sideboard? Bolt/Leak a couple creatures, maybe Damnation, and then help stabilize by Crypting away all those creatures and gaining 6, 9, 12 life to put us back into a comfortable range. It costs three mana, which isn't ideal, but it is an instant, so we can hold up counter or removal and then drop it EoT. Plus, any Grixis decks that are running Teachings can tutor it up after clearing the board.
Again, I'm pretty new to Modern as well as this deck, but I've read all the primer pages and I don't recall anyone mentioning Crypt Incursion.
Crypt incursion is certainly a decent SB card I have been looking at, it can gain you a ton of life for its cost and even hit some persisters! I usually just resort to Batterskull and Tribute to Hunger to try and get some life gain going that also effects the board.
Chapins new list looks great, It always seemed that 26 land was not enough and the relics are the exta mana bump the deck needs, you have so much draw and card power that not getting enough mana is probably the easiest way to lose with this deck.
I really don't mean to come off as ridiculous--I really want to play this deck, but is there really nothing easier to cast than cruel (that still isn't sphinxs rev)?
Also any word on Patrick Chapin's final results--critiques of his deck? Seems like it probably doesn't beat jund well enough.
I have been testing Chapin's list on MTGO since Sunday, it is quite good, I thought 3 Cruels and Mulldrifter were bad and can say I was quite wrong
Some notes:
Mulldrifter is a much better lategame topdeck than Think Twice
You always want to draw cruel when you hit the cryptic mana mark
Relic has been consistently overperforming I even turn 5 a cruel ultimatum one game (check my stream archives for the game)
Jund is about 50/50 it comes down to your removal vs their discard in your opener and unlike Revelation a resolved Cruel almost always wins you the game
Early I found Burn to be unwinnable game 1 (like 85/15 MU) I am testing a misers Vampire Nighthawk, today it over performed as it was really good vs Jund UWR Geist. I cut a Blood Crypt for it
Also testing misers shriekmaw over the third snare
Rakdos's Return or Blightning may have a place in the deck, currently unknown though
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
there is a deck tech, but also he posted it in his SGC article today + what he would change since detroit--both lists are different than the BMK tech (which is odd)
Had my first outing with the deck tonight. Few of my friends get together some days for Modern and I jumped in. I went 2-1, beating Melira Pod and U/B Mill, but losing to Kiki-Twin. It was all for fun, but it was nice to actually get my first real taste of the format.
Melira Pod was 2-0.
The first game, I had enough Bolts and Electrolyzes to keep him off his combo pieces. By the time he shifted gears into a beatdown plan I had stalled long enough to hit Cruel Ultimatum. Next turn, Snapcaster the Ultimatum and win.
Game two, he only drew into one Pod and I had the Shadow of Doubt and Rakdos Charm to neuter it immediately. I hit all my removal, so much that I managed to fight through his Kitchen Finks + Gavony Township with my Batterskull. After finally grinding that shenanigans out I hit Ultimatum again and he scooped. These were the only games of the night that I cast Ultimatum.
U/B was 2-1.
I got rolled the first game. I countered a few things, burned a Hedron Crab, and slung a bolt or two at his face but his drawing was pure gold.
Game two I hit a turn three Clique and kept up pressure with a bit of burn. He was down to six life when he milled my Ulamog and scooped.
Game three was more of the same. Turn three Clique is really strong against mill. I snatched his Archive Trap and mixed in some burn and Snapcasters. He was at five when I EoT Bolted his face. He scooped to lethal Clique on board. It was actually really cool to beat Mill without using an Eldrazi shuffle. Mill's been made out to be such a boogeyman lately and the guy who pilots it in my group is probably the best player among us, so I was pleased haha.
I got stomped by Kiki-Twin 0-2. I drew badly and he had all the counterspells to stop me from touching his things. Ouch. Is Kiki-Twin actually a bad matchup for us or was it just a matter of I drew badly and he drew well?
I would imagine the Twin matchup depends on your build. If you run cards like Sudden Death it's easy to get a sudden blowout, and Slaughter Games on the board is obviously strong against them. Swan Song is another possibility from Theros that might not be terrible in this deck.
I got stomped by Kiki-Twin 0-2. I drew badly and he had all the counterspells to stop me from touching his things. Ouch. Is Kiki-Twin actually a bad matchup for us or was it just a matter of I drew badly and he drew well?
It's generally a good matchup for us because of the amount of removal/countermagic and disruption we run. Post-board Slaughter Games and Spellskite really help, you just have to look out for Blood Moon.
Hooray, finally a pro agrees that Serum Visions rocks in here (and is much better in control decks than people realize in general). If he were to add thoughtflares and some hand disruption, he would more or less arrive at the lists me and Magicman were playing a while back.
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I went 3-1 in a local tournament with a similar list to what Chapin ran, with a few notable differences. My sideboard has 2 Slaughter Games, 0 Counterflux, 0 Shadow of Doubt, 2 Rakdos Charm, 1 Inquisition of Kozilek and 1 Thoughtseize - at a glance the rest looks the same. Also I run a 2/2 split of Snapcaster Mage and Mulldrifter, and I run a second Watery Grave over the second Sunken Ruins. Also -1 Dreadbore +1 Terminate maindeck.
EDIT - Just realized that Chapin made the same land change as I did already, and I am not running Darkslick Shores. I think I'd prefer River of Tears here.
Another guy ran Chapin's list from GP Detroit except for one card - he ran Far//Away over I think a land. He went 1-1-2.
Round 1 vs UWR Midrange
Game 1 I kept a suspicious hand with Serum Visions and hit nothing but land, eventually losing to Geist of Saint Traft + Lightning Bolts.
Game 2 I Slaughter Games'd Sphinx's Revelation and Cryptic Command (not in that order) and answered his board, then resolved a Cruel Ultimatum and played tapout control while he held Dispel, which I had seen earlier with a Thoughtseize (that took his opening hand Geist).
Game 3 was pretty insane - he had really good stuff early on and saw my hand with a Vendilion Clique, but I drew nothing but gas and eventually won with Cruel Ultimatum.
2-1 games 1-0 matches
Round 2 vs Gu Combo Elves
Game 1 I kept an excellent hand but lost to a misplay - he had Cloudstone Curio out and I countered an elf with Cryptic Command instead of leaving open Bolt/Snapcaster/Bolt to stop his combo.
Game 2 was very one-sided as I killed everything he played and he got stuck on lands.
Game 3 he had a ton of lands but nothing to play. This is just a really good matchup for us, as combo elves dies to removal.
4-2 games 2-0 matches
Round 3 vs UW Tron
This is probably a bad matchup, but game 1 was absolutely insane. I kept a two-lander with Serum Visions, hit my 3rd land around turn 5, and never saw a 4th land despite digging through 24 cards. When he finally got a Karn out, he exiled a land and I scooped. Game 2 I almost had all of the answers and would have won if I ever drew a Cruel Ultimatum, but eventually died to not being able to draw an answer to Ulamog.
4-4 games 2-1 matches
Round 4 vs BGwr Jund/Junk mix
This was by far my easiest match. In testing before the tournament, he never even came close to winning a single game. Game 1 I answered his threats and Lavaclaw Reaches was very strong. Game 2 was more of the same. I resolved a Cruel Ultimatum, Snapcastered it, and let his Dark Confidant do the last points of damage. The only thing I had to do was stop Batterskull from hitting me and gaining him life, which wouldn't have done much other than delay the inevitable.
6-4 games 3-1 matches
Overall I got 3rd place (the UW tron player split with the other undefeated) and learned a lot about playing the deck. I look forward to Theros, which brings Hero's Downfall and Steam Augury to our arsenal. I think Thoughtflare is a little expensive for this deck, while Steam Augury is right where I want it to be. I might add a couple of win conditions due to the possibility of losing Cruel Ultimatums to the Augury though - might even go up to 3 Ultimatums, or add a way to get it back from the yard.
Thoughts: Inquisiton of Kozilek is often better than Thoughtseize. Disfigure and Pyroclasm/Slagstorm might be worth testing if your metagame is aggro-heavy or has lots of Jund/Junk-type decks - having more ways to kill Deathrite Shamans and Scavenging Oozes seems strong - but Hero's Downfall will fulfil a much-needed role - an instant-speed way to deal with planeswalkers.
I haven't tested Read the Bones, but I'm quite skeptical about sorcery-speed draw spells that lose life. I'd almost rather run Divination and would almost certainly prefer Serum Visions. Read the Bones is excellent in decks without access to blue, however.
I haven't tested Read the Bones, but I'm quite skeptical about sorcery-speed draw spells that lose life. I'd almost rather run Divination and would almost certainly prefer Serum Visions. Read the Bones is excellent in decks without access to blue, however.
If I was considering Divination, I'd prolly skip straight to Mulldrifter. Same thing in the earlier parts of the game but it starts beating face later on. Probably the same situation with Read the Bones. Scrying 2 is awesome, but I think the possibility of a solid, evasive body in the late game trumps the scrying and it doesn't cost you any life. Then again, I'm fairly new to Modern, so what do I know? lol
BRUThraxumdur - Creature Steal DeckBRU
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Dragon deckBRG
UWGJenara, Asura of War, Bant Stompy deckBRG
BWSelenia, Dark Angel- LifegainBW
Standard:
BRVampsBR
Hahah then just play gifts in the first place like I said. Seriously really enjoy the combo with Mystic Retrieval its quite powerful in this deck. Basically take Cheons build cut 1 cruel and one teachings for a single gifts and retrieval. Mybe cut a snapy or cryptic for a second gifs. I dont know why every acts like all opponents start the game with a DRS and Ooze in play.
Some things I noticed:
Mulldrifter
Coalition Relic
2 Lavaclaw Reaches (as opposed to 4 Creeping Tar-Pits) - I really like his reasons behind this
Batterskull, Teachings, Teferi, and Liliana in the board.
RIP Eggs
My Trade Thread
Crypt Incursion is nowhere near as good as either of those cards, but is it good enough to be a one or two-of in the sideboard? Bolt/Leak a couple creatures, maybe Damnation, and then help stabilize by Crypting away all those creatures and gaining 6, 9, 12 life to put us back into a comfortable range. It costs three mana, which isn't ideal, but it is an instant, so we can hold up counter or removal and then drop it EoT. Plus, any Grixis decks that are running Teachings can tutor it up after clearing the board.
Again, I'm pretty new to Modern as well as this deck, but I've read all the primer pages and I don't recall anyone mentioning Crypt Incursion.
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
Chapins new list looks great, It always seemed that 26 land was not enough and the relics are the exta mana bump the deck needs, you have so much draw and card power that not getting enough mana is probably the easiest way to lose with this deck.
Also any word on Patrick Chapin's final results--critiques of his deck? Seems like it probably doesn't beat jund well enough.
Some notes:
Mulldrifter is a much better lategame topdeck than Think Twice
You always want to draw cruel when you hit the cryptic mana mark
Relic has been consistently overperforming I even turn 5 a cruel ultimatum one game (check my stream archives for the game)
Jund is about 50/50 it comes down to your removal vs their discard in your opener and unlike Revelation a resolved Cruel almost always wins you the game
Early I found Burn to be unwinnable game 1 (like 85/15 MU) I am testing a misers Vampire Nighthawk, today it over performed as it was really good vs Jund UWR Geist. I cut a Blood Crypt for it
Also testing misers shriekmaw over the third snare
Rakdos's Return or Blightning may have a place in the deck, currently unknown though
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I don't know of an actual deck list posted anywhere, but you can visually see all of the cards in the deck in a deck tech on Brian Kibler's blog:
http://bmkgaming.com/gp-detroit-bootleg-coverage/
WURUWr Stoneblade
Modern
WRGNaya Zoo Company
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Electrolyze
3 Mana Leak
1 Devour Flesh
2 Coalition Relic
2 Mulldrifter
1 Dreadbore
1 Terminate
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Spell Snare
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dreadship Reef
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Watery Grave
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Mystical Teachings
2 Counterflux
2 Sowing Salt
1 Consume the Meek
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
2 Mulldrifter
2 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (26)
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Sunken Ruins
2 Watery Grave
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Coalition Relic
4 Cryptic Command
1 Devour Flesh
4 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
1 Terminate
3 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Damnation
1 Dreadbore
1 Pillar of Flame
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Consume the Meek
2 Counterflux
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sowing Salt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Mulldrifter
3 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (25)
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Dreadship Reef
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Watery Grave
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Coalition Relic
4 Cryptic Command
1 Devour Flesh
4 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
2 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Damnation
1 Dreadbore
1 Pillar of Flame
4 Serum Visions
1 Coalition Relic
1 Pithing Needle
1 Consume the Meek
2 Counterflux
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Sowing Salt
2 Thoughtseize
2 Vandalblast
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Melira Pod was 2-0.
The first game, I had enough Bolts and Electrolyzes to keep him off his combo pieces. By the time he shifted gears into a beatdown plan I had stalled long enough to hit Cruel Ultimatum. Next turn, Snapcaster the Ultimatum and win.
Game two, he only drew into one Pod and I had the Shadow of Doubt and Rakdos Charm to neuter it immediately. I hit all my removal, so much that I managed to fight through his Kitchen Finks + Gavony Township with my Batterskull. After finally grinding that shenanigans out I hit Ultimatum again and he scooped. These were the only games of the night that I cast Ultimatum.
U/B was 2-1.
I got rolled the first game. I countered a few things, burned a Hedron Crab, and slung a bolt or two at his face but his drawing was pure gold.
Game two I hit a turn three Clique and kept up pressure with a bit of burn. He was down to six life when he milled my Ulamog and scooped.
Game three was more of the same. Turn three Clique is really strong against mill. I snatched his Archive Trap and mixed in some burn and Snapcasters. He was at five when I EoT Bolted his face. He scooped to lethal Clique on board. It was actually really cool to beat Mill without using an Eldrazi shuffle. Mill's been made out to be such a boogeyman lately and the guy who pilots it in my group is probably the best player among us, so I was pleased haha.
I got stomped by Kiki-Twin 0-2. I drew badly and he had all the counterspells to stop me from touching his things. Ouch. Is Kiki-Twin actually a bad matchup for us or was it just a matter of I drew badly and he drew well?
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
It's generally a good matchup for us because of the amount of removal/countermagic and disruption we run. Post-board Slaughter Games and Spellskite really help, you just have to look out for Blood Moon.
Hooray, finally a pro agrees that Serum Visions rocks in here (and is much better in control decks than people realize in general). If he were to add thoughtflares and some hand disruption, he would more or less arrive at the lists me and Magicman were playing a while back.
EDIT - Just realized that Chapin made the same land change as I did already, and I am not running Darkslick Shores. I think I'd prefer River of Tears here.
Another guy ran Chapin's list from GP Detroit except for one card - he ran Far//Away over I think a land. He went 1-1-2.
Round 1 vs UWR Midrange
Game 1 I kept a suspicious hand with Serum Visions and hit nothing but land, eventually losing to Geist of Saint Traft + Lightning Bolts.
Game 2 I Slaughter Games'd Sphinx's Revelation and Cryptic Command (not in that order) and answered his board, then resolved a Cruel Ultimatum and played tapout control while he held Dispel, which I had seen earlier with a Thoughtseize (that took his opening hand Geist).
Game 3 was pretty insane - he had really good stuff early on and saw my hand with a Vendilion Clique, but I drew nothing but gas and eventually won with Cruel Ultimatum.
2-1 games 1-0 matches
Round 2 vs Gu Combo Elves
Game 1 I kept an excellent hand but lost to a misplay - he had Cloudstone Curio out and I countered an elf with Cryptic Command instead of leaving open Bolt/Snapcaster/Bolt to stop his combo.
Game 2 was very one-sided as I killed everything he played and he got stuck on lands.
Game 3 he had a ton of lands but nothing to play. This is just a really good matchup for us, as combo elves dies to removal.
4-2 games 2-0 matches
Round 3 vs UW Tron
This is probably a bad matchup, but game 1 was absolutely insane. I kept a two-lander with Serum Visions, hit my 3rd land around turn 5, and never saw a 4th land despite digging through 24 cards. When he finally got a Karn out, he exiled a land and I scooped. Game 2 I almost had all of the answers and would have won if I ever drew a Cruel Ultimatum, but eventually died to not being able to draw an answer to Ulamog.
4-4 games 2-1 matches
Round 4 vs BGwr Jund/Junk mix
This was by far my easiest match. In testing before the tournament, he never even came close to winning a single game. Game 1 I answered his threats and Lavaclaw Reaches was very strong. Game 2 was more of the same. I resolved a Cruel Ultimatum, Snapcastered it, and let his Dark Confidant do the last points of damage. The only thing I had to do was stop Batterskull from hitting me and gaining him life, which wouldn't have done much other than delay the inevitable.
6-4 games 3-1 matches
Overall I got 3rd place (the UW tron player split with the other undefeated) and learned a lot about playing the deck. I look forward to Theros, which brings Hero's Downfall and Steam Augury to our arsenal. I think Thoughtflare is a little expensive for this deck, while Steam Augury is right where I want it to be. I might add a couple of win conditions due to the possibility of losing Cruel Ultimatums to the Augury though - might even go up to 3 Ultimatums, or add a way to get it back from the yard.
Thoughts: Inquisiton of Kozilek is often better than Thoughtseize. Disfigure and Pyroclasm/Slagstorm might be worth testing if your metagame is aggro-heavy or has lots of Jund/Junk-type decks - having more ways to kill Deathrite Shamans and Scavenging Oozes seems strong - but Hero's Downfall will fulfil a much-needed role - an instant-speed way to deal with planeswalkers.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
If I was considering Divination, I'd prolly skip straight to Mulldrifter. Same thing in the earlier parts of the game but it starts beating face later on. Probably the same situation with Read the Bones. Scrying 2 is awesome, but I think the possibility of a solid, evasive body in the late game trumps the scrying and it doesn't cost you any life. Then again, I'm fairly new to Modern, so what do I know? lol
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk