I am glad to see Seize get a reprint. Card prices are getting out of control, and once people start understanding that any non-reserved list card is fair game for a reprint without notice, will stop speculating on them and pushing up prices.
I just hope that this set is decent with less OP creatures and starts the return to real magic. Meaning incremental advantage and smart resource management.
Actually, it does stand for Leyline of the Void but is being improperly used to refer to Liliana of the Veil. Just like MM is actually the acronym for Mercadian Masques and not Modern Masters.
I am glad to see Seize get a reprint. Card prices are getting out of control, and once people start understanding that any non-reserved list card is fair game for a reprint without notice, will stop speculating on them and pushing up prices.
Look at the price drop already!
Actually, it does stand for Leyline of the Void but is being improperly used to refer to Liliana of the Veil. Just like MM is actually the acronym for Mercadian Masques and not Modern Masters.
Who the heck talks about Leyline of the Void and Mercadian Masques?
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So are we officially putting Thoughtseize in Theros and not one of the other two sets?
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So out of curiosity, by saying they are related to Halimar Depths and Horizon Canopy, are we seeing lands that scry and have a sac effect relevant to the colors?
Nice. I bet my ass about Thoughtseize being reprinted very soon and sold my playset about a month ago. People who cling on to any Modern staples that haven't been in print for more than five years are just crazy.
Nice. I bet my ass about Thoughtseize being reprinted very soon and sold my playset about a month ago. People who cling on to any Modern staples that haven't been in print for more than five years are just crazy.
i agree. because this people are the main reason, cards get so expensive. i see several youtubers who hoard tons of modern staples like fetchlands, and so on.... without all these speculaters, i bet the prices for singles would drop by around 20%.
If TK says its in, it's in. I don't believe he's ever been wrong before when it comes to spoilers.
I've been wrong, but that's when I've been using my judgement on whether a card was fake or not (I know I called Rootborn Defense fake when it was first posted).
This is a situation where I and the other mods have sources feeding us info, so yes, in that sense, I've never been wrong when my sources give me info
I've been wrong, but that's when I've been using my judgement on whether a card was fake or not (I know I called Rootborn Defense fake when it was first posted).
This is a situation where I and the other mods have sources feeding us info, so yes, in that sense, I've never been wrong when my sources give me info
I put it in the spoiler, soooo... :armscross::D
I thought you agreed with Troll's assessment that it's in the block but not Theros? Eithwary, I'm not arguing we'll have the card back in Standard and affordable in Modern in no time.
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An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
If TK-421's sources are correct, then the Thoughtseize news is the best thing I've heard all week.
Hopefully they don't do something stupid and bump it up to mythic. It is to black what lightning bolt is to red after all.
Its reprinting is just in time too. WotC's continued attempts to promote the modern format coupled with the lack of Thoughtseize reprints was set to catapult the price of TS to a point where no staple has any business being.
At rare, I expect it to stabilize ~$20-$25 by time we finish Theros block.
edit:
Looking back at TK-421's posts, I see that apparently the information available to the mods implies that TS is rare. That's about what I expected. IMO it should have been uncommon for its original printing.....but the damage is done now. At least they aren't going hyper-greed mode and pushing a staple card to mythic rarity.
I thought you agreed with Troll's assessment that it's in the block but not Theros? Eithwary, I'm not arguing we'll have the card back in Standard and affordable in Modern in no time.
No, the mods never said Thoughtseize wasn't in Theros.
I am glad to see Seize get a reprint. Card prices are getting out of control, and once people start understanding that any non-reserved list card is fair game for a reprint without notice, will stop speculating on them and pushing up prices.
Look at the price drop already!
It has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's a pretty powerful card that sees play in Legacy and Modern and that is in short supply right (since Lorwyn, for whatever reason, wasn't popular)?
Oh no, it can't be that! It MUST be the evil speculators operating from the shadow conspiring to rob us, fair players, of our hard-earned cash through market manipulation and backroom deals with those corporate jerks at Starcity Games!
I find it interesting that nobody mentioned the idea of optional scrying for these lands. If you scry, they etbt if you don't, they etb untapped.
I have a hard time imagining scry and etbt on a rare dual land without giving you the option or means to have it come into play untapped somehow. Rare mana fixing lands should not be forced into coming in tapped, and given the rarity on halimar depths, I don't see adding another color to boot bumps it up to a rare.
Maybe nobody mentions it because that would make those lands way too good and far better than shock duals even without the fetching aspect.
If it is just a dual that comes in untapped with no basic sub types and you have to pass on scrying? Basic land sub types are the gold of duals, it is hardly as amazing as a dual that has no sub type just entering the battlefield untapped. Better than Shocks? You are dreaming. Shocks break through the fetching barrier for almost absolute mana fixing with little to no effort. Passing up a scry to have it come into play untapped without sub types puts them somewhere between pain lands and shock lands, without deterring new players from wanting to run them because of taking damage.
I find it interesting that nobody mentioned the idea of optional scrying for these lands. If you scry, they etbt if you don't, they etb untapped.
I have a hard time imagining scry and etbt on a rare dual land without giving you the option or means to have it come into play untapped somehow. Rare mana fixing lands should not be forced into coming in tapped, and given the rarity on halimar depths, I don't see adding another color to boot bumps it up to a rare.
This comparison leaves out the fact that Halimar Depths does not scry. In fact, the difference between Depths' effect and a true scry 3 is quite big. So while I like the idea you suggested a lot (assuming this is even the kind of lands we get, that is,) I would not be surprised if they were just strictly etbt with scry.
There is pretty much a set formula for rare dials, and that is that they will always provide you a means to play it untapped with some sort of downside, maybe passing up scry is not a draw back. But I find it incredibly difficult to believe that this basic formula would change to the point where the land just enters tapped at a rare or higher.
If it is just a dual that comes in untapped with no basic sub types and you have to pass on scrying? Basic land sub types are the gold of duals, it is hardly as amazing as a dual that has no sub type just entering the battlefield untapped. Better than Shocks? You are dreaming. Shocks break through the fetching barrier for almost absolute mana fixing with little to no effort. Passing up a scry to have it come into play untapped without sub types puts them somewhere between pain lands and shock lands, without deterring new players from wanting to run them because of taking damage.
Your thinking too much about modern or legacy where fetches are the backbone. Did you play magic before fetches? Its not like fetches suddenly made the original duals playable or something. What you suggest is printing a dual land that would be better than the original duals in the standard format.
There is pretty much a set formula for rare dials, and that is that they will always provide you a means to play it untapped with some sort of downside, maybe passing up scry is not a draw back. But I find it incredibly difficult to believe that this basic formula would change to the point where the land just enters tapped at a rare or higher.
How historically evident is that situation?
There has never been a land that enters the battlefield untapped unconditionally and taps for two colors unconditionally. That would be strictly better than a basic land, and adding Scry on top of that would be insane. (The only land with Scry on it thus far is New Benalia, an uncommon that produces one color and ETBs tapped, and that was only Scry 1).
My guess is that it will have a nimbus-maze like ability and will scry conditionally. Something like this:
Oracle's Temple
Land
T: Add U to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control a plains.
T: Add W to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control an island.
When Oracle's Temple enters the battlefield, if you control both a plains and an island, Scry 2
Alternately, just having:
Oracle's Temple
Land
ETB's tapped
When ~ enters the battlefield, scry 2
T: Add U or W to your mana pool
Would be extremely strong. Like, Legacy playable strong.
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No mod edit ever said "no way Thoughtseize is back."
What the mod edit said was "Thoughtseize is not in Born of the Gods." Big difference, and consistent with Thoughtseize being in Theros.
Island is just as likely as Mountain.
Look at the price drop already!
Actually, it does stand for Leyline of the Void but is being improperly used to refer to Liliana of the Veil. Just like MM is actually the acronym for Mercadian Masques and not Modern Masters.
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Who the heck talks about Leyline of the Void and Mercadian Masques?
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An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
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i agree. because this people are the main reason, cards get so expensive. i see several youtubers who hoard tons of modern staples like fetchlands, and so on.... without all these speculaters, i bet the prices for singles would drop by around 20%.
I've been wrong, but that's when I've been using my judgement on whether a card was fake or not (I know I called Rootborn Defense fake when it was first posted).
This is a situation where I and the other mods have sources feeding us info, so yes, in that sense, I've never been wrong when my sources give me info
I put it in the spoiler, soooo... :armscross::D
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it wont.. its played in all 3 big formats. it will most likely drop to around 15€ in the beginning. but then will rise slowly to around 20€ again.
it will definitly be more expensive than 10$.
I would say about $20. Mutavault and Scavenging Oooze are riding around $15 and Thoughtseize is played more then those.
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I thought you agreed with Troll's assessment that it's in the block but not Theros? Eithwary, I'm not arguing we'll have the card back in Standard and affordable in Modern in no time.
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
GP Vegas: It was once in a lifetime!
On Vault of the Archangel
Hopefully they don't do something stupid and bump it up to mythic. It is to black what lightning bolt is to red after all.
Its reprinting is just in time too. WotC's continued attempts to promote the modern format coupled with the lack of Thoughtseize reprints was set to catapult the price of TS to a point where no staple has any business being.
At rare, I expect it to stabilize ~$20-$25 by time we finish Theros block.
edit:
Looking back at TK-421's posts, I see that apparently the information available to the mods implies that TS is rare. That's about what I expected. IMO it should have been uncommon for its original printing.....but the damage is done now. At least they aren't going hyper-greed mode and pushing a staple card to mythic rarity.
No, the mods never said Thoughtseize wasn't in Theros.
Yes. Being "chained" could be literal or figurative as a term of imprisonment.
Edit: while I should think it would be a mountain, island can't strictly be ruled out.
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Maybe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_(mythology)
On the bigger EU buy/sell website Lorwyn version already is at half the price it had before confirmation (now at ~22EUR). THS version is at ~17EUR.
My educated guess is it will sit around 10EUR one week past release and will stay there.
It has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's a pretty powerful card that sees play in Legacy and Modern and that is in short supply right (since Lorwyn, for whatever reason, wasn't popular)?
Oh no, it can't be that! It MUST be the evil speculators operating from the shadow conspiring to rob us, fair players, of our hard-earned cash through market manipulation and backroom deals with those corporate jerks at Starcity Games!
I have a hard time imagining scry and etbt on a rare dual land without giving you the option or means to have it come into play untapped somehow. Rare mana fixing lands should not be forced into coming in tapped, and given the rarity on halimar depths, I don't see adding another color to boot bumps it up to a rare.
If it is just a dual that comes in untapped with no basic sub types and you have to pass on scrying? Basic land sub types are the gold of duals, it is hardly as amazing as a dual that has no sub type just entering the battlefield untapped. Better than Shocks? You are dreaming. Shocks break through the fetching barrier for almost absolute mana fixing with little to no effort. Passing up a scry to have it come into play untapped without sub types puts them somewhere between pain lands and shock lands, without deterring new players from wanting to run them because of taking damage.
This comparison leaves out the fact that Halimar Depths does not scry. In fact, the difference between Depths' effect and a true scry 3 is quite big. So while I like the idea you suggested a lot (assuming this is even the kind of lands we get, that is,) I would not be surprised if they were just strictly etbt with scry.
How historically evident is that situation?
Your thinking too much about modern or legacy where fetches are the backbone. Did you play magic before fetches? Its not like fetches suddenly made the original duals playable or something. What you suggest is printing a dual land that would be better than the original duals in the standard format.
The point of my post was not so much being accurate in my speculation, but to show the fundamental design formula presented with rare dual lands.
There has never been a land that enters the battlefield untapped unconditionally and taps for two colors unconditionally. That would be strictly better than a basic land, and adding Scry on top of that would be insane. (The only land with Scry on it thus far is New Benalia, an uncommon that produces one color and ETBs tapped, and that was only Scry 1).
Duals with a bonus ability that etb tapped have shown up a couple of times though, see Seriji Refuge and Celestial Colonnade.
My guess is that it will have a nimbus-maze like ability and will scry conditionally. Something like this:
Oracle's Temple
Land
T: Add U to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control a plains.
T: Add W to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control an island.
When Oracle's Temple enters the battlefield, if you control both a plains and an island, Scry 2
Alternately, just having:
Oracle's Temple
Land
ETB's tapped
When ~ enters the battlefield, scry 2
T: Add U or W to your mana pool
Would be extremely strong. Like, Legacy playable strong.
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EDIT: I'd like to reiterate that we have been informed that these lands will be closer to Horizon Canopy in form and function, anyway.